Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
What surprised me even more is that several sellers listed over 100 stamps, hardly one above $0.50...all of the same country.
I can understand listing in Auctions if you are hard pressed meeting the minimum listing requirements of Approvals. But to list over a 100 stamps under $0.05 in Auctions???
Isn't it a lot more efficient for the seller to list them in an Approval Book?
Also for the buyer, would you really go through list of $0.05 stamps in Auctions, or would you rather look at an Approval book where you can glance at 30 stamps per page?
I guess some people are confortable with one platform or the other, but I am still very
puzzled.rrr...
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I see what you mean. No, I can't figure it out nor the method used to price. Long ago I gave up trying to figure this site out when it comes to selling. There are certainly things I have learned about the buying habits of the members, but there is still more to learn. I will never learn it all. It boggles my mind that people buy stamps that have no cat#, yet when I break down my books, there are times when my fat fingers type the wrong catalog number. Almost every time I will find a stamp or two with the wrong cat# that did not sell. Coincidence? I really cannot tell. If buyers don;t care about catalog numbers, then why did these not get taken for 5 or 10 cents? Beats me. I don't even try to figure it out anymore. I just go by what I already know about this site, and experiment until I learn something else
Greg
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I dunno. I've found sellers in auctions who list 20 stamps at a nickel each. Their terms state they have a $3 minimum order and want a dollar for postage! Go Figger!
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Being that I collect GB and Commonwealth and am English, I use SG catalogues mostly, though I do have an older set of Scott.
When browsing the offerings I use my couple of working brain cells as to what I am missing and if not sure then the album comes out.
This seems to work fairly well but I do finish up with a few doubles at times.
I agree that offering stamps at auction for a few cents makes no sense but maybe the intention is, hopefully, to start a bidding war. Personally 20-30 cents is still too low for auction items.
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One would think that 20-30 cents is too low for an auction item, but not counting penny auctions, if I was to compare auctions that have sold here for under 40-50 cents (almost every auction gets only one bid) with auctions that have sold for over 50 cents, the under wins hands down. Again, thats one of the things I have learned about this site. Do not list expensive items and expect them to sell. I list them sure, but that is only because I am really doing work for three auction sites when I list here. I just start them here first. What doesn't sell (most that are not being listed at a penny) gets put in #2's auctions on Monday nights and what does not sell there goes to #3 at some point in the near future.
Greg
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As a buyer...
I've looked at many "New" Approval books, only to find everything I'm interested in (the right stamps at the right price) picked clean within minutes by people who have the time do be on line all day looking for those opportunities. And what's left are usually too few to justify the postage costs.
So Approvals are binary: you either get in early and the stamp you want, or you don't. So there's no complaining about that (other than I need to retire sooner, and get my wife to quit asking me to do chores or spend time with her).
Therefore, Auctions look better in that there is always a chance to get what you want - even if you aren't "Johnny on the Spot". Including offerings of low-CV stamps (which many of us may still need, unless we are in the rarified collector zone). And if there is a BIN option, buyers at least have a general (although often over-priced) proxy for an Approvals offering.
Finally, I've found Approvals sellers less willing to be flexible on holding invoices, compared to Auction sellers. Not a criticism, just an unscientific observation (who knows, I may even exhibit the same behaviour).
I was going to comment as a seller, too. But even the very thought about input (time and effort) vs output (revenues, not even putative profits!) has exhausted me too much. I'm going for a nap.
Cheers, Dave.
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Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair.
However on "the other site" I will use sniping without any hesitation.
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"But to list over a 100 stamps under $0.05 in Auctions???
Isn't it a lot more efficient for the seller to list them in an Approval Book?"
Please note:- I AGREE with rrraphy!!!!
It must cost more than the 5c price just in time, electricity and wear and tear on the machinery!!!
As for 20-30 cents being too low, a stamp catalogued at $2.00 selling at 10% of catalogue would have a price of 20 cents.
Do you really want only stamps catalogued at $5.00 and above in the auctions?
Even then if it is listed and then relisted twice a $5.00 catalogued stamp, priced at 10% of cat, would then fall to 40 cents and then 32 cents!!
The Approval system itself encourages low priced items to be placed in the Auctions.
How many of us have 100 stamps of Afganistan, or Canal Zone or Rhodesia and Nyasaland etc etc etc?
OK I know that you can mix these countries with their neighbours within a category but this is not clear in the rules.
We then come to the actual logistics of listing items in the Approvals. Lets say it takes nine stocksheets to list an Approval Book of 108 stamps, therefore to list 10 Books you need 90 Stocksheets. If you list 10 books per month, leave your books active for three months you need 270 stocksheets!! (If you leave the books active for six months you need 540 stocksheets!!)
Alternatively if you hinged your stamps on a paper sheet, the time taken to lick and stick 108 stamps to nine sheets takes some considerable time, When they sell you have to pull the stamps off the paper sheet and remove the hinges from the individual stamps. (This method takes more time than using stock sheets)
So it can be much easier to scan and list in the Auctions!! (You do not need to find 100 stamps and list them in order).
There is absolutely no logic to selling on this site. You list your items, at the price you want, either in the Auctions or the Approvals and you hope for the best.
You just pray that you have listed the right stamp(s) at the right price, at the right time and the right Buyer spots your stamp, has no pre-conceptions about postage costs, wants the latest commemorative stamps on their package, is willing to pay within a reasonable time and in the end purchases your item!!
Despite the above I still love this site and most of the members and thank those that give their time to this site and of course to Roy who allows this site to exist!!!!
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"Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair.
However on "the other site" I will use sniping without any hesitation."
Thank you for confirming what I have suspected for some time.
It is this concept that makes it a bit difficult for Sellers to price their items in the auctions and whether to have an Auction or use Buy It Now.
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"I've looked at many "New" Approval books, only to find everything I'm interested in (the right stamps at the right price) picked clean within minutes"
This can also be a problem for Sellers. If 40 % of a book sells in the first day or two
you may not see any further movement at all. Therefore the remains of that book is just dead stock until you remove that book. If you then create a new book using the 60% remaining you will sell some of that 60% that were not purchased the first time round.
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Sorry Neddie didn't mean to rouse you from the glens.
Personally I do not concern myself with the catalogue value but more on whether the stamps fill the gap/space in my collection.
So if anyone has the used litho Hong Kong Machins that Scott says are 25 cents I have at least a dollar waiting for each one. I'm sure we all have similar items that are plain elusive.
It is a difficult one for the sellers, knowing which way to go for the best, whatever direction they find easiest I guess.
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"Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair."
I don't feel that way at all. If it is something and I can bid a price I am comfortable with I will happily outbid someone. To be fair the sellers should have a chance to benefit from buyer competition.
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I agree that it doesn't make sense from either seller's or buyer's perspective to list cheap items auction style.
Personally I do not even consider bidding on single cheap stamps as at the end of the day I finish up with 30 cents worth of stamps and $2 worth of postage!
I would bid on items in case I have already purchased items from this seller, or if I know the seller's invoicing habits.
On another note, I do not feel comfortable outbidding fellow Stamporama members that I know and deal with. So I would place one bid and if another person wants to outbid me, the item is his / hers. Likewise I do not bid on items I want, if another person has already placed a bid.
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As a collector, a buyer and a seller, I feel very awkward bidding in an action against one of my regular buyer! I would rather have a buy-it-now option that eliminate this conflict.
Ian I agree...most books sell what they will sell in the first few days. One may as well retire them, relist the items (with any additions) and start again. After 40% has been sold, there is little incentive as a buyer to look through a book (it is frustrating like hell).
On the issue of stock-sheets, and regular printed pages to display the Approval material, having enough stock-sheets is a big financial burden..I have books of 10-20 pages and will need several hundreds sheets at any one time. But there is an alternative. You, my friend, are misjudging the difficulties of mounting stamps on regular printed sheets.
"""Alternatively if you hinged your stamps on a paper sheet, the time taken to lick and stick 108 stamps to nine sheets takes some considerable time, When they sell you have to pull the stamps off the paper sheet and remove the hinges from the individual stamps. (This method takes more time than using stock sheets)"""
After all the discussion we have had here about temporary use of removable tape (3M archival photo safe), I am surprised some people still use the old "fold lick and press the hinge down" method, then peel the hinge off (if it cooperates)... how archaic! And on Mint, and MNH?
Now not using the removable tape long term in your collection is certainly a personal and safer choice ( After 10 years I see no long term issue, but one cannot be faulted for being conservative) (note: there was a brief, now resolved issue of residue when removing the tape.)
But here on approval sheets, for a short time duration???
rrr...
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Interesting discussion. Personally I do not get it either. Why would anyone individually list all these stamps, going through all the effort. But then again, who am I to decide if someone's actions make sense?
Over the years I have been participating in both auctions and approvals I did notice that the two seem to be parallel worlds. Most buyers from auctions do not look at approvals and vice versa.
When I put on my buyer's hat, the most important thing to me is the numbers game. As has been said already, I don't bother with buying one stamp for 5 cents and end up with $2 postage. So I want more items to make shipping cheaper, relatively speaking.
As to the other discussion. I use two black page stock books for presenting and scanning the stamps in my approvals. When I finish, I put the stamps in a glassine envelope per page and mark the glassines according to the scanning order. Then they go in a large archive box that has tabs a to z. So the stamps are sorted on country name, do not take that much space and I always have pages available for scanning.
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" 3M archival photo safe tape"
This stuff comes on a roll, has to be cut to size, so as I am a dinosaur I'll stick to pre-cut, folded stamp hinges!!
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It is nice to see confirmed what I have thought for a couple of years now - why items get one bid. Ian you were correct when we discussed this. Kudos.
"There is absolutely no logic to selling on this site. You list your items, at the price you want, either in the Auctions or the Approvals and you hope for the best."
Yes, that is quite true - and when you think you have figured it out, it changes. But thats OK. In spite of what people think, unless you are a crook, you are not making enough money selling stamps to do much more than buy more stamps to sell.
Ralph buy it now is just one more place to accidentally forget to change when you are listing an auction. I make enough mistakes as it is forgetting to change the country. after selecting the letter. I did buy it now one week and no one "bought it". Not worth the time at least to me.
I use the stock sheet method for a couple of reasons and yes, I have about 200 pages tied up with another 100 on hand. I paid $35 for 50 Vario pages. Again, smaller books, less pages and when a book is closed and I know I will not be restocking it again, anything that cats over 50 cents stays on the sheet and is eventually put into stores and removed into glassines. Makes the whole thing quite tidy. Under 50 cents cv winds up in penny auctions in two sites, 25 cent cv stamps for the most part go to charity. I think time wise the stock sheets are faster than mounting to paper, but maybe its because that is what I am used to. To my way of thinking adding to a book of paper pages is a lot more time consuming than moving stamps around in stock sheets. Of course it could be that no one else does that but me - restock. I don't know. Ian I agree once again. You need to cut the tape, play with the tape etc, BUT the stock sheets are faster than hinges as well.
Books picked clean is the issue I addressed when the powers that be decided to shut down inactive books. Actually at the time I hated it but in reality it forced me to rethink strategy and now list books counting the number of stamps instead of entries. This allows much more flexibility in the long run as it allows restocking, and it gives multiple chances at being first at the book. If you don't think this matters take down an old book, change nothing and put it back up and watch. You will then find that your books of 100 sets are way too big to rework and begin to rethink the listing process. In the beginning I would black out the sold stamps and put the book back up. Now almost all those books have been replaced. I will never relist an auction. If I were going to do that I would look into the spreadsheet bulk upload but from what I have seen and suspect, it would be an awful lot of work both on the input side and on the processing of sold auctions that have run weekly for months. Now change the requirements so that the system figures out what country to put the stamp in based on the title of the auction like some other site does and maybe the spreadsheet becomes a little more imaginable. A manageable spreadsheet though could make the auction count run to the 10-20,000+ level very easily. Maybe no one would want that. I know I would then begin to rethink things once again. Then "Buy It Now" makes sense because you are setting up a lifetime auction listing.
Greg
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I am a relatively new buyer but I have bought quite a bit in the last few months including from Ian. Here are my thoughths FWIW:
1. At first I didn't want to bid against people and I still don't a lot unless I want the stamp badly (for example, I bid robustly on some Tannu Tuva stamps and got them and I filling holes in Scandinavia right now). I am a WW collector with thousands (perhaps millions) of holes in my collection so it makes sense for me to buy the stamps at the lowest price.
2. I tend to stick to a couple of sellers at once (right now I have bids on Ian's and John's auctions). It's easier for me to keep track of my purchases and I have found these two sellers a pleasure to deal with. I have bought from several others. Some I will not buy from again because of personal preference--one because they said one thing in their listing and did another when it came to shipping. It wasn't cheating or anything like that but I want to deal with people who are straightforward. Going forward I know that I will be bidding on Dakota and Soundcrest's stamps at some point because they both carry items I am interested in.
3. I seldom look at approval books for the reasons mentioned by previous posters. I work long hours and I can only look at stamps in the early morning or late at night or weekends. Approval books go fast and the auctions give me time to look. I generally look at "new listings" and "closing in 24 hours" to see if there's something I am interested in, then go to "all listings by seller" to see if there's more that I'm interested in from a seller.
4. My impression is that the auctions get more looks than the approvals, but I could be wrong. I have wondered about why so many sellers list the cheaper stamps on auctions instead of on approval, but I figure that they must sell better. It's hard to sell a ton of stamps at 1-2 cents at a time and make it worth it.
5. I have noticed that not a ton of higher end material makes it on the auction. It seems lower end and good deals go best (of course). I would be interested in some higher end material but I get that it doesn't sell well. I like the larger lots of stamps and the full sets. I think the most I have paid here for a lot is around $7.
Those are my thoughts as a buyer.
Jackie
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"4. My impression is that the auctions get more looks than the approvals, but I could be wrong. I have wondered about why so many sellers list the cheaper stamps on auctions instead of on approval, but I figure that they must sell better. It's hard to sell a ton of stamps at 1-2 cents at a time and make it worth it.
5. I have noticed that not a ton of higher end material makes it on the auction. It seems lower end and good deals go best (of course). I would be interested in some higher end material but I get that it doesn't sell well. I like the larger lots of stamps and the full sets. I think the most I have paid here for a lot is around $7."
My experience as a seller is that when I offer 40 lots in the auction, I would be lucky if I sell one. In the approvals on the other hand, I am surprised if a book, containing 150 stamps on average, does not sell 40% or so.
Re. higher value items: I tried to sell better items on the auction: no luck at all, while there is a strong lobby to do just that. But when I include them in the approval books (items with c.v. of $20 or higher, with an asking price of 25% of that, so $5 or so) they do sell pretty easily. So it beats me how it works. I just stick to what works best for me.
Jan-Simon
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I agree. Sometimes I when I list higher priced items in approval books they do sell when they do not sell at auction. It depends on the country. I'm thinking its more about the collectors budget rather than what is offered. I sometimes check my prices on higher priced items researching other selling sites, and I find I am cheaper, but it doesn't matter if you don;t have the $5 or $10 to spend on a single stamp or set. That and I know full well having browsed tens of thousands of collection listings at auction over the years, that most people do not have collections that contain very expensive stamps. I have seen some of the stamp rooms on the DB, impressive to be sure, but I do not think that is anywhere near the norm for the average collector. The average collector is looking to get a lot of spaces filled for a decent price, hence the success of the 5-10 cent approvals and auctions.
I have had limited success with topical books. 5 cent stuff even with no country name or catalog number sells. Books that I list every set in my index with cat#, and year, not so great, probably because many stamps/sets are over a dollar. Europa which I though would do well, sold just about nothing for the two years I had listed. A shame since I have other complete years as well that I have not listed. Sticking to what works best is my way of thinking as well, though I do experiment from time to time
Greg
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it is also going through fashions and hypes. I find certain countries don't do very well where they used to be very popular. Other countries that one would be ridiculed for if you only looked at them have become very wanted instead.
It is something you find out while doing and the next time you avoid the countries that do not sell well. For instance: my own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now.
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"My own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now."
Thanks for that. I have been looking for mint Netherlands collections in that era. I won't look anymore
Certainly countries that I would not think would do well do, and likewise the reverse. But, is it the country or just the luck of the draw? This is why I advocate restocking or simply taking down and putting back up, something very easy to do when the book has between 100-150 total stamps instead of 100 singles/sets that have 300-350 stamps. There are people that I believe will not look at a book if they can't view it the first day or two. It happens to me over and over again, and it is with people who buy from me normally. I simply relist, and sure enough stamps sell out of it that were there to begin with. My work schedule is set to release books Thursday and Friday nights. I have never deviated from that, but maybe I should try spreading them over three or four nights.
Greg
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Just my 2 cents... I have tried some auctions over time for higher catalog valued items and I do not think I have had much luck with that. I also have merged a lot of approval book left overs into lots on auction and sometimes that seems to work. I would never spend the time setting up time limited auctions for individual lower priced stamps - I just stick with the approval books. I must be a dinosaur because I just stick with the stamps hinged on the pages for the books. Low cost option. Of course I have had the occasional stamp that gets damaged upon removal - so I just refund the buyer for those. If something is mint never hinged to begin with then those stamps just do not get included in an approval book and I post them elsewhere. Most of the stamps I have or get are already hinged whether they were Used or Not Used - so adding the extra hinge for the approval book does not make a big difference. I need to look into the tape Ralph mentioned and give that a try before I buy anymore hinges and see how that would work for me. Steve
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Although I do participate a little in auctions I find them boring, especially when one sees the same items over and over again. On the other end on some items I have to bid several times and usually the same bidder gets it at an unreasonable price. I do not have this problem on Approval Books, thats why I prefer them. Michel
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Isn't it grand that we are such a diverse bunch.
What suits one member doesn't suit the next one.
Its great that there is no common solution to the initial question.
That way everybody is correct and no one is wrong.
YYYEEEEEHHAAAAAA!!!
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"It is something you find out while doing and the next time you avoid the countries that do not sell well. For instance: my own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now."
Jan-Simon, list those Dutch 2010-2018 non-Christmas used stamps and I will buy them! And if you have more recent Pakistan, Bangladesh, whatever I will buy those too :-)
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If I had any Netherlands of the last 8 or 10 years I could certainly sell them. And for a good price too. But they can not be found. You can hardly buy them and therefore you never see them on the mail that almost noone cares to send these days.
As far as Pakistan and Bangladesh are concerned: all I have is online in the approvals right now. Still have some new arrivals waiting. Expect Iran, Nigeria and South West Africa coming up soon.
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I have no problem at all bidding against someone whether I know them or not.
And I would expect others to do the same.
I will bid on an item I want until my maximum amount has been reached or I win.
There is nothing personal here, but it IS an auction!
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"I have no problem at all bidding against someone whether I know them or not."
Still in order for the auction section to work properly, I believe the bidding must be anonymous.
It is like passing someone on the road; some drivers are OK with it, others are not.
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I dare say that Ralph and myself may have mounted more stamps than most of anyone else here. I don't think you can find anyone that would argue that original Dennison hinges were not the best ever made but it's not really much of an option anymore. I have been using 3M 811 removable Magic Tape for several years now and feel that it has no rival. I have never noted any problem in removing them from either stamps nor page even on the flimsiest of papers. Brechinite noted that it is hard to size and cut but I find that an invalid argument. Like most tapes there are dispensers available that make sizing and cutting a breeze and less difficult than untangling and straightening out most hinges that are currently available. Scott has desktop dispenser No. C-4210 available for use with this tape and it works as perfectly as you would expect any 3M product to function. The only thing I find to be somewhat annoying is getting a nice hard fold to keep the stamp laying flat, it takes going over the fold a couple of times with the non business flat end of your tongs to get a good flat fold. After a certain point of value I use mounts to afford more protection.
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"The only thing I find to be somewhat annoying is getting a nice hard fold to keep the stamp laying flat."
YYYUUUPPP!!!
Everything has its drawbacks. Its up to each individual to decide what they put up with.
Like most things it is horses for courses!!
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I was exploring some new listings in Auctions and was really surprised by the number of stamps listed at $0.05, with individual photo scans, and cat number and values stated.
What surprised me even more is that several sellers listed over 100 stamps, hardly one above $0.50...all of the same country.
I can understand listing in Auctions if you are hard pressed meeting the minimum listing requirements of Approvals. But to list over a 100 stamps under $0.05 in Auctions???
Isn't it a lot more efficient for the seller to list them in an Approval Book?
Also for the buyer, would you really go through list of $0.05 stamps in Auctions, or would you rather look at an Approval book where you can glance at 30 stamps per page?
I guess some people are confortable with one platform or the other, but I am still very puzzled.
rrr...
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Approvals
re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I see what you mean. No, I can't figure it out nor the method used to price. Long ago I gave up trying to figure this site out when it comes to selling. There are certainly things I have learned about the buying habits of the members, but there is still more to learn. I will never learn it all. It boggles my mind that people buy stamps that have no cat#, yet when I break down my books, there are times when my fat fingers type the wrong catalog number. Almost every time I will find a stamp or two with the wrong cat# that did not sell. Coincidence? I really cannot tell. If buyers don;t care about catalog numbers, then why did these not get taken for 5 or 10 cents? Beats me. I don't even try to figure it out anymore. I just go by what I already know about this site, and experiment until I learn something else
Greg
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I dunno. I've found sellers in auctions who list 20 stamps at a nickel each. Their terms state they have a $3 minimum order and want a dollar for postage! Go Figger!
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Being that I collect GB and Commonwealth and am English, I use SG catalogues mostly, though I do have an older set of Scott.
When browsing the offerings I use my couple of working brain cells as to what I am missing and if not sure then the album comes out.
This seems to work fairly well but I do finish up with a few doubles at times.
I agree that offering stamps at auction for a few cents makes no sense but maybe the intention is, hopefully, to start a bidding war. Personally 20-30 cents is still too low for auction items.
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Approvals
re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
One would think that 20-30 cents is too low for an auction item, but not counting penny auctions, if I was to compare auctions that have sold here for under 40-50 cents (almost every auction gets only one bid) with auctions that have sold for over 50 cents, the under wins hands down. Again, thats one of the things I have learned about this site. Do not list expensive items and expect them to sell. I list them sure, but that is only because I am really doing work for three auction sites when I list here. I just start them here first. What doesn't sell (most that are not being listed at a penny) gets put in #2's auctions on Monday nights and what does not sell there goes to #3 at some point in the near future.
Greg
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
As a buyer...
I've looked at many "New" Approval books, only to find everything I'm interested in (the right stamps at the right price) picked clean within minutes by people who have the time do be on line all day looking for those opportunities. And what's left are usually too few to justify the postage costs.
So Approvals are binary: you either get in early and the stamp you want, or you don't. So there's no complaining about that (other than I need to retire sooner, and get my wife to quit asking me to do chores or spend time with her).
Therefore, Auctions look better in that there is always a chance to get what you want - even if you aren't "Johnny on the Spot". Including offerings of low-CV stamps (which many of us may still need, unless we are in the rarified collector zone). And if there is a BIN option, buyers at least have a general (although often over-priced) proxy for an Approvals offering.
Finally, I've found Approvals sellers less willing to be flexible on holding invoices, compared to Auction sellers. Not a criticism, just an unscientific observation (who knows, I may even exhibit the same behaviour).
I was going to comment as a seller, too. But even the very thought about input (time and effort) vs output (revenues, not even putative profits!) has exhausted me too much. I'm going for a nap.
Cheers, Dave.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair.
However on "the other site" I will use sniping without any hesitation.
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06:52:27pm
Approvals
re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"But to list over a 100 stamps under $0.05 in Auctions???
Isn't it a lot more efficient for the seller to list them in an Approval Book?"
Please note:- I AGREE with rrraphy!!!!
It must cost more than the 5c price just in time, electricity and wear and tear on the machinery!!!
As for 20-30 cents being too low, a stamp catalogued at $2.00 selling at 10% of catalogue would have a price of 20 cents.
Do you really want only stamps catalogued at $5.00 and above in the auctions?
Even then if it is listed and then relisted twice a $5.00 catalogued stamp, priced at 10% of cat, would then fall to 40 cents and then 32 cents!!
The Approval system itself encourages low priced items to be placed in the Auctions.
How many of us have 100 stamps of Afganistan, or Canal Zone or Rhodesia and Nyasaland etc etc etc?
OK I know that you can mix these countries with their neighbours within a category but this is not clear in the rules.
We then come to the actual logistics of listing items in the Approvals. Lets say it takes nine stocksheets to list an Approval Book of 108 stamps, therefore to list 10 Books you need 90 Stocksheets. If you list 10 books per month, leave your books active for three months you need 270 stocksheets!! (If you leave the books active for six months you need 540 stocksheets!!)
Alternatively if you hinged your stamps on a paper sheet, the time taken to lick and stick 108 stamps to nine sheets takes some considerable time, When they sell you have to pull the stamps off the paper sheet and remove the hinges from the individual stamps. (This method takes more time than using stock sheets)
So it can be much easier to scan and list in the Auctions!! (You do not need to find 100 stamps and list them in order).
There is absolutely no logic to selling on this site. You list your items, at the price you want, either in the Auctions or the Approvals and you hope for the best.
You just pray that you have listed the right stamp(s) at the right price, at the right time and the right Buyer spots your stamp, has no pre-conceptions about postage costs, wants the latest commemorative stamps on their package, is willing to pay within a reasonable time and in the end purchases your item!!
Despite the above I still love this site and most of the members and thank those that give their time to this site and of course to Roy who allows this site to exist!!!!
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07:00:40pm
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair.
However on "the other site" I will use sniping without any hesitation."
Thank you for confirming what I have suspected for some time.
It is this concept that makes it a bit difficult for Sellers to price their items in the auctions and whether to have an Auction or use Buy It Now.
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07:09:10pm
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"I've looked at many "New" Approval books, only to find everything I'm interested in (the right stamps at the right price) picked clean within minutes"
This can also be a problem for Sellers. If 40 % of a book sells in the first day or two
you may not see any further movement at all. Therefore the remains of that book is just dead stock until you remove that book. If you then create a new book using the 60% remaining you will sell some of that 60% that were not purchased the first time round.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Sorry Neddie didn't mean to rouse you from the glens.
Personally I do not concern myself with the catalogue value but more on whether the stamps fill the gap/space in my collection.
So if anyone has the used litho Hong Kong Machins that Scott says are 25 cents I have at least a dollar waiting for each one. I'm sure we all have similar items that are plain elusive.
It is a difficult one for the sellers, knowing which way to go for the best, whatever direction they find easiest I guess.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"Very rarely will I bid on an item in auctions if someone has already made a bid, in a club type setting it does not seem fair."
I don't feel that way at all. If it is something and I can bid a price I am comfortable with I will happily outbid someone. To be fair the sellers should have a chance to benefit from buyer competition.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I agree that it doesn't make sense from either seller's or buyer's perspective to list cheap items auction style.
Personally I do not even consider bidding on single cheap stamps as at the end of the day I finish up with 30 cents worth of stamps and $2 worth of postage!
I would bid on items in case I have already purchased items from this seller, or if I know the seller's invoicing habits.
On another note, I do not feel comfortable outbidding fellow Stamporama members that I know and deal with. So I would place one bid and if another person wants to outbid me, the item is his / hers. Likewise I do not bid on items I want, if another person has already placed a bid.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
As a collector, a buyer and a seller, I feel very awkward bidding in an action against one of my regular buyer! I would rather have a buy-it-now option that eliminate this conflict.
Ian I agree...most books sell what they will sell in the first few days. One may as well retire them, relist the items (with any additions) and start again. After 40% has been sold, there is little incentive as a buyer to look through a book (it is frustrating like hell).
On the issue of stock-sheets, and regular printed pages to display the Approval material, having enough stock-sheets is a big financial burden..I have books of 10-20 pages and will need several hundreds sheets at any one time. But there is an alternative. You, my friend, are misjudging the difficulties of mounting stamps on regular printed sheets.
"""Alternatively if you hinged your stamps on a paper sheet, the time taken to lick and stick 108 stamps to nine sheets takes some considerable time, When they sell you have to pull the stamps off the paper sheet and remove the hinges from the individual stamps. (This method takes more time than using stock sheets)"""
After all the discussion we have had here about temporary use of removable tape (3M archival photo safe), I am surprised some people still use the old "fold lick and press the hinge down" method, then peel the hinge off (if it cooperates)... how archaic! And on Mint, and MNH?
Now not using the removable tape long term in your collection is certainly a personal and safer choice ( After 10 years I see no long term issue, but one cannot be faulted for being conservative) (note: there was a brief, now resolved issue of residue when removing the tape.)
But here on approval sheets, for a short time duration???
rrr...
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Interesting discussion. Personally I do not get it either. Why would anyone individually list all these stamps, going through all the effort. But then again, who am I to decide if someone's actions make sense?
Over the years I have been participating in both auctions and approvals I did notice that the two seem to be parallel worlds. Most buyers from auctions do not look at approvals and vice versa.
When I put on my buyer's hat, the most important thing to me is the numbers game. As has been said already, I don't bother with buying one stamp for 5 cents and end up with $2 postage. So I want more items to make shipping cheaper, relatively speaking.
As to the other discussion. I use two black page stock books for presenting and scanning the stamps in my approvals. When I finish, I put the stamps in a glassine envelope per page and mark the glassines according to the scanning order. Then they go in a large archive box that has tabs a to z. So the stamps are sorted on country name, do not take that much space and I always have pages available for scanning.
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05:51:59am
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
" 3M archival photo safe tape"
This stuff comes on a roll, has to be cut to size, so as I am a dinosaur I'll stick to pre-cut, folded stamp hinges!!
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
It is nice to see confirmed what I have thought for a couple of years now - why items get one bid. Ian you were correct when we discussed this. Kudos.
"There is absolutely no logic to selling on this site. You list your items, at the price you want, either in the Auctions or the Approvals and you hope for the best."
Yes, that is quite true - and when you think you have figured it out, it changes. But thats OK. In spite of what people think, unless you are a crook, you are not making enough money selling stamps to do much more than buy more stamps to sell.
Ralph buy it now is just one more place to accidentally forget to change when you are listing an auction. I make enough mistakes as it is forgetting to change the country. after selecting the letter. I did buy it now one week and no one "bought it". Not worth the time at least to me.
I use the stock sheet method for a couple of reasons and yes, I have about 200 pages tied up with another 100 on hand. I paid $35 for 50 Vario pages. Again, smaller books, less pages and when a book is closed and I know I will not be restocking it again, anything that cats over 50 cents stays on the sheet and is eventually put into stores and removed into glassines. Makes the whole thing quite tidy. Under 50 cents cv winds up in penny auctions in two sites, 25 cent cv stamps for the most part go to charity. I think time wise the stock sheets are faster than mounting to paper, but maybe its because that is what I am used to. To my way of thinking adding to a book of paper pages is a lot more time consuming than moving stamps around in stock sheets. Of course it could be that no one else does that but me - restock. I don't know. Ian I agree once again. You need to cut the tape, play with the tape etc, BUT the stock sheets are faster than hinges as well.
Books picked clean is the issue I addressed when the powers that be decided to shut down inactive books. Actually at the time I hated it but in reality it forced me to rethink strategy and now list books counting the number of stamps instead of entries. This allows much more flexibility in the long run as it allows restocking, and it gives multiple chances at being first at the book. If you don't think this matters take down an old book, change nothing and put it back up and watch. You will then find that your books of 100 sets are way too big to rework and begin to rethink the listing process. In the beginning I would black out the sold stamps and put the book back up. Now almost all those books have been replaced. I will never relist an auction. If I were going to do that I would look into the spreadsheet bulk upload but from what I have seen and suspect, it would be an awful lot of work both on the input side and on the processing of sold auctions that have run weekly for months. Now change the requirements so that the system figures out what country to put the stamp in based on the title of the auction like some other site does and maybe the spreadsheet becomes a little more imaginable. A manageable spreadsheet though could make the auction count run to the 10-20,000+ level very easily. Maybe no one would want that. I know I would then begin to rethink things once again. Then "Buy It Now" makes sense because you are setting up a lifetime auction listing.
Greg
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07:21:06am
re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I am a relatively new buyer but I have bought quite a bit in the last few months including from Ian. Here are my thoughths FWIW:
1. At first I didn't want to bid against people and I still don't a lot unless I want the stamp badly (for example, I bid robustly on some Tannu Tuva stamps and got them and I filling holes in Scandinavia right now). I am a WW collector with thousands (perhaps millions) of holes in my collection so it makes sense for me to buy the stamps at the lowest price.
2. I tend to stick to a couple of sellers at once (right now I have bids on Ian's and John's auctions). It's easier for me to keep track of my purchases and I have found these two sellers a pleasure to deal with. I have bought from several others. Some I will not buy from again because of personal preference--one because they said one thing in their listing and did another when it came to shipping. It wasn't cheating or anything like that but I want to deal with people who are straightforward. Going forward I know that I will be bidding on Dakota and Soundcrest's stamps at some point because they both carry items I am interested in.
3. I seldom look at approval books for the reasons mentioned by previous posters. I work long hours and I can only look at stamps in the early morning or late at night or weekends. Approval books go fast and the auctions give me time to look. I generally look at "new listings" and "closing in 24 hours" to see if there's something I am interested in, then go to "all listings by seller" to see if there's more that I'm interested in from a seller.
4. My impression is that the auctions get more looks than the approvals, but I could be wrong. I have wondered about why so many sellers list the cheaper stamps on auctions instead of on approval, but I figure that they must sell better. It's hard to sell a ton of stamps at 1-2 cents at a time and make it worth it.
5. I have noticed that not a ton of higher end material makes it on the auction. It seems lower end and good deals go best (of course). I would be interested in some higher end material but I get that it doesn't sell well. I like the larger lots of stamps and the full sets. I think the most I have paid here for a lot is around $7.
Those are my thoughts as a buyer.
Jackie
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"4. My impression is that the auctions get more looks than the approvals, but I could be wrong. I have wondered about why so many sellers list the cheaper stamps on auctions instead of on approval, but I figure that they must sell better. It's hard to sell a ton of stamps at 1-2 cents at a time and make it worth it.
5. I have noticed that not a ton of higher end material makes it on the auction. It seems lower end and good deals go best (of course). I would be interested in some higher end material but I get that it doesn't sell well. I like the larger lots of stamps and the full sets. I think the most I have paid here for a lot is around $7."
My experience as a seller is that when I offer 40 lots in the auction, I would be lucky if I sell one. In the approvals on the other hand, I am surprised if a book, containing 150 stamps on average, does not sell 40% or so.
Re. higher value items: I tried to sell better items on the auction: no luck at all, while there is a strong lobby to do just that. But when I include them in the approval books (items with c.v. of $20 or higher, with an asking price of 25% of that, so $5 or so) they do sell pretty easily. So it beats me how it works. I just stick to what works best for me.
Jan-Simon
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I agree. Sometimes I when I list higher priced items in approval books they do sell when they do not sell at auction. It depends on the country. I'm thinking its more about the collectors budget rather than what is offered. I sometimes check my prices on higher priced items researching other selling sites, and I find I am cheaper, but it doesn't matter if you don;t have the $5 or $10 to spend on a single stamp or set. That and I know full well having browsed tens of thousands of collection listings at auction over the years, that most people do not have collections that contain very expensive stamps. I have seen some of the stamp rooms on the DB, impressive to be sure, but I do not think that is anywhere near the norm for the average collector. The average collector is looking to get a lot of spaces filled for a decent price, hence the success of the 5-10 cent approvals and auctions.
I have had limited success with topical books. 5 cent stuff even with no country name or catalog number sells. Books that I list every set in my index with cat#, and year, not so great, probably because many stamps/sets are over a dollar. Europa which I though would do well, sold just about nothing for the two years I had listed. A shame since I have other complete years as well that I have not listed. Sticking to what works best is my way of thinking as well, though I do experiment from time to time
Greg
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
it is also going through fashions and hypes. I find certain countries don't do very well where they used to be very popular. Other countries that one would be ridiculed for if you only looked at them have become very wanted instead.
It is something you find out while doing and the next time you avoid the countries that do not sell well. For instance: my own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"My own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now."
Thanks for that. I have been looking for mint Netherlands collections in that era. I won't look anymore
Certainly countries that I would not think would do well do, and likewise the reverse. But, is it the country or just the luck of the draw? This is why I advocate restocking or simply taking down and putting back up, something very easy to do when the book has between 100-150 total stamps instead of 100 singles/sets that have 300-350 stamps. There are people that I believe will not look at a book if they can't view it the first day or two. It happens to me over and over again, and it is with people who buy from me normally. I simply relist, and sure enough stamps sell out of it that were there to begin with. My work schedule is set to release books Thursday and Friday nights. I have never deviated from that, but maybe I should try spreading them over three or four nights.
Greg
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Just my 2 cents... I have tried some auctions over time for higher catalog valued items and I do not think I have had much luck with that. I also have merged a lot of approval book left overs into lots on auction and sometimes that seems to work. I would never spend the time setting up time limited auctions for individual lower priced stamps - I just stick with the approval books. I must be a dinosaur because I just stick with the stamps hinged on the pages for the books. Low cost option. Of course I have had the occasional stamp that gets damaged upon removal - so I just refund the buyer for those. If something is mint never hinged to begin with then those stamps just do not get included in an approval book and I post them elsewhere. Most of the stamps I have or get are already hinged whether they were Used or Not Used - so adding the extra hinge for the approval book does not make a big difference. I need to look into the tape Ralph mentioned and give that a try before I buy anymore hinges and see how that would work for me. Steve
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11:43:03am
re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Although I do participate a little in auctions I find them boring, especially when one sees the same items over and over again. On the other end on some items I have to bid several times and usually the same bidder gets it at an unreasonable price. I do not have this problem on Approval Books, thats why I prefer them. Michel
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02:13:52pm
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
Isn't it grand that we are such a diverse bunch.
What suits one member doesn't suit the next one.
Its great that there is no common solution to the initial question.
That way everybody is correct and no one is wrong.
YYYEEEEEHHAAAAAA!!!
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"It is something you find out while doing and the next time you avoid the countries that do not sell well. For instance: my own country the Netherlands is not doing that great, especially anything from the 1960s to now."
Jan-Simon, list those Dutch 2010-2018 non-Christmas used stamps and I will buy them! And if you have more recent Pakistan, Bangladesh, whatever I will buy those too :-)
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
If I had any Netherlands of the last 8 or 10 years I could certainly sell them. And for a good price too. But they can not be found. You can hardly buy them and therefore you never see them on the mail that almost noone cares to send these days.
As far as Pakistan and Bangladesh are concerned: all I have is online in the approvals right now. Still have some new arrivals waiting. Expect Iran, Nigeria and South West Africa coming up soon.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I have no problem at all bidding against someone whether I know them or not.
And I would expect others to do the same.
I will bid on an item I want until my maximum amount has been reached or I win.
There is nothing personal here, but it IS an auction!
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"I have no problem at all bidding against someone whether I know them or not."
Still in order for the auction section to work properly, I believe the bidding must be anonymous.
It is like passing someone on the road; some drivers are OK with it, others are not.
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
I dare say that Ralph and myself may have mounted more stamps than most of anyone else here. I don't think you can find anyone that would argue that original Dennison hinges were not the best ever made but it's not really much of an option anymore. I have been using 3M 811 removable Magic Tape for several years now and feel that it has no rival. I have never noted any problem in removing them from either stamps nor page even on the flimsiest of papers. Brechinite noted that it is hard to size and cut but I find that an invalid argument. Like most tapes there are dispensers available that make sizing and cutting a breeze and less difficult than untangling and straightening out most hinges that are currently available. Scott has desktop dispenser No. C-4210 available for use with this tape and it works as perfectly as you would expect any 3M product to function. The only thing I find to be somewhat annoying is getting a nice hard fold to keep the stamp laying flat, it takes going over the fold a couple of times with the non business flat end of your tongs to get a good flat fold. After a certain point of value I use mounts to afford more protection.
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05:45:16am
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re: Approvals vs Auctions? What is an efficient listing strategy?
"The only thing I find to be somewhat annoying is getting a nice hard fold to keep the stamp laying flat."
YYYUUUPPP!!!
Everything has its drawbacks. Its up to each individual to decide what they put up with.
Like most things it is horses for courses!!
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