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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Portugal 39? Imperf

 

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

23 Jul 2013
05:08:27pm
Until recently I thought this, being imperf, was Portugal 19. But I just got a Portugal 19 and took a closer look at it...and I am now convinced this is Portugal 39 Imperf.
Problem is that Scott only reports Mint and no used Imperf 39, and states that they were proofs. But this stamp is clealy a used one.
Can anyone shed light on this mystery?

Thanks
rrr...
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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

23 Jul 2013
05:41:01pm
re: Portugal 39? Imperf

rrr...
Check the background on the type A14- #19 its a crosshatch pattern on the Type A15 #39 its straight lines of shading. I believe you have #39 used perfs trimmed off.
Ross

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

24 Jul 2013
07:17:43am

Approvals
re: Portugal 39? Imperf

It cannot be a 19, because the design is completely different. This must be from the 1870-1876 series, or #39 to be precise. Proofs do exist, but in this particular case the colour appears to be wrong. According to the Afinsa catalogue the imperf proof for the 20 r. is "lilas claro" (pale purple in English), while this one is the normal bistre.

Perhaps Ross is right, or this is a cutout from a postcard or prestamped envelope? Does the paper look different than usual?


Jan-Simon


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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

24 Jul 2013
11:42:50am
re: Portugal 39? Imperf

Hi Ross, Hi Jean Simon
Yes definitely #39. Goes to show how one can be careless, as I put it in my #19 slot, given it was imperforated, and the cancellation covered some of the details...so I looked no further.
Now the paper is definitely like the paper of the others in the series, although it definitely is more like the older paper of the first printing than the whiter paper of the reprints, and if it was cropped, they did a good job, given the size of the stamp. I overlayed it on perforated stamps of the same series, and if cropped, they did not have a milliliter to spare.
This stamp (from the look of the hinge remnants) has been in a someone's or another's collection for at least a 100 years! But from what Jean-Simon says about essay color, I must accept that it is probably a very neatly cropped nicely preserved #39. Aaah well, still deserves a spot to show it off!
Thanks for your expert eyes and knowledge.
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

24 Jul 2013
05:42:52pm
re: Portugal 39? Imperf

Hi Ralph,

Postal stationary envelopes with stamps in the design ‘A15’ are limited to a 25R blue and a 50R pink. There also exit postal cards with stamps in the ‘A15’ design, albeit again no 20R brown (there exist a number of postal cards with a 20R blue, however). But since the stamp is on regular paper, a cut-out from a postal card wouldn’t be a possible option anyways -- info according to the Michel Europe Postal Stationary Catalog (2003/04). In sum, it all looks like a clipped Scott #39.

Frequently, fakers cut off perforations to fabricate a more expensive imperforate variety, which is not a likely explanation here since there are no imperforated stamps in the A15 design (other than the proofs). Nevertheless, the same verification approach applies as with any suspected clipped perforation fabrication: hi-def scan on black background stamp facing down, blow up, search for dents:

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Not sure if the above actually are dents, the scan quality is not sufficient to actually determine this, but the marked spots appear somewhat suspicious and might be remnants of perforation holes.

An interesting mystery stamp, Ralph, thanks for sharing!


Arno



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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

24 Jul 2013
06:50:13pm
re: Portugal 39? Imperf

All very interesting...and I would go with trimmed, but not because of remnants of perfs, or other indications...but just because it seems the most likely! (read my motto!)
By the way, that small spot up front top center...ink from the cancellation, not a hole.
I have a stamp microscope, but had not thought of using it to look at the trimming...
Imperfs being scisor cut, I was not sure what it would do for me.

But here are another two photos front and back with better focus, although still degraded to post here. Just for the curious....as I am satisfied with the verdict.
Rrr...

Image Not Found

Reverse Side, (camera color is off )

Image Not Found

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
23 Jul 2013
05:08:27pm

Until recently I thought this, being imperf, was Portugal 19. But I just got a Portugal 19 and took a closer look at it...and I am now convinced this is Portugal 39 Imperf.
Problem is that Scott only reports Mint and no used Imperf 39, and states that they were proofs. But this stamp is clealy a used one.
Can anyone shed light on this mystery?

Thanks
rrr...
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."

To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
23 Jul 2013
05:41:01pm

re: Portugal 39? Imperf

rrr...
Check the background on the type A14- #19 its a crosshatch pattern on the Type A15 #39 its straight lines of shading. I believe you have #39 used perfs trimmed off.
Ross

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
24 Jul 2013
07:17:43am

Approvals

re: Portugal 39? Imperf

It cannot be a 19, because the design is completely different. This must be from the 1870-1876 series, or #39 to be precise. Proofs do exist, but in this particular case the colour appears to be wrong. According to the Afinsa catalogue the imperf proof for the 20 r. is "lilas claro" (pale purple in English), while this one is the normal bistre.

Perhaps Ross is right, or this is a cutout from a postcard or prestamped envelope? Does the paper look different than usual?


Jan-Simon


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www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
24 Jul 2013
11:42:50am

re: Portugal 39? Imperf

Hi Ross, Hi Jean Simon
Yes definitely #39. Goes to show how one can be careless, as I put it in my #19 slot, given it was imperforated, and the cancellation covered some of the details...so I looked no further.
Now the paper is definitely like the paper of the others in the series, although it definitely is more like the older paper of the first printing than the whiter paper of the reprints, and if it was cropped, they did a good job, given the size of the stamp. I overlayed it on perforated stamps of the same series, and if cropped, they did not have a milliliter to spare.
This stamp (from the look of the hinge remnants) has been in a someone's or another's collection for at least a 100 years! But from what Jean-Simon says about essay color, I must accept that it is probably a very neatly cropped nicely preserved #39. Aaah well, still deserves a spot to show it off!
Thanks for your expert eyes and knowledge.
rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
24 Jul 2013
05:42:52pm

re: Portugal 39? Imperf

Hi Ralph,

Postal stationary envelopes with stamps in the design ‘A15’ are limited to a 25R blue and a 50R pink. There also exit postal cards with stamps in the ‘A15’ design, albeit again no 20R brown (there exist a number of postal cards with a 20R blue, however). But since the stamp is on regular paper, a cut-out from a postal card wouldn’t be a possible option anyways -- info according to the Michel Europe Postal Stationary Catalog (2003/04). In sum, it all looks like a clipped Scott #39.

Frequently, fakers cut off perforations to fabricate a more expensive imperforate variety, which is not a likely explanation here since there are no imperforated stamps in the A15 design (other than the proofs). Nevertheless, the same verification approach applies as with any suspected clipped perforation fabrication: hi-def scan on black background stamp facing down, blow up, search for dents:

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Not sure if the above actually are dents, the scan quality is not sufficient to actually determine this, but the marked spots appear somewhat suspicious and might be remnants of perforation holes.

An interesting mystery stamp, Ralph, thanks for sharing!


Arno



Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
24 Jul 2013
06:50:13pm

re: Portugal 39? Imperf

All very interesting...and I would go with trimmed, but not because of remnants of perfs, or other indications...but just because it seems the most likely! (read my motto!)
By the way, that small spot up front top center...ink from the cancellation, not a hole.
I have a stamp microscope, but had not thought of using it to look at the trimming...
Imperfs being scisor cut, I was not sure what it would do for me.

But here are another two photos front and back with better focus, although still degraded to post here. Just for the curious....as I am satisfied with the verdict.
Rrr...

Image Not Found

Reverse Side, (camera color is off )

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

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