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Europe/Great Britain : KGV Watermarks

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NJW7
13 Mar 2013
07:24:17pm
Is it normal for the KGV issues to have upside-down watermarks, to be catalogued as the regular issue? Specifically what I'm talking about are the Scott 212, 1 1/2 pence red brown, with watermark 35 (the Crown and Block GvR Multiple). Most have the watermark oriented normally, but I have a few with a sideways watermark (which Scott lists as 212b) and also several with an inverted watermark which is not listed in Scott 2009. Just a matter of the sheet being upside down in the production? Thanks, Nevin
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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
13 Mar 2013
07:33:57pm
re: KGV Watermarks

It is normal for Scott. A number of stamps with the inverted watermark come from booklets, which was part of the normal printing process and not an error.

Gibbons doesn't catalog these either in their Commonwealth catalog. Maybe in their British specialized catalog they do. Since these stamps are low face value and common, I don't believe that they would hold much if any added value.

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NJW7
13 Mar 2013
08:04:10pm
re: KGV Watermarks

Much obliged, Michael.

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parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
13 Mar 2013
10:28:08pm
re: KGV Watermarks

My 1998 Stanley Gibbons Concise lists the inverted watermark at 2.00 MNH and 1.50 MH and 0.50 Used. These are obviously British Pounds. There could be a fairly significant difference in price for inverted wm of this issue. The 1/2 penny is 15.00 MNH/4.50 MH/1.25 Used. The 1 penny is 12.00/6.50/2.75.

Remember these are 1998 prices.

Bob

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Martyn
14 Mar 2013
09:36:45am
re: KGV Watermarks

SG Great Britain Concise 1999 lists as follows:-

1912-14
1 1/2d brown wmk upright £1.00
wmk inverted £1.50
wmk reversed £5.00
wmk inverted and reversed £5.00

inverted wmk's can be found on pretty much ALL values in mint but only to the 1/- in used

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Stampaholic
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11 Apr 2013
08:41:35am

Auctions - Approvals
re: KGV Watermarks

Scott has a note that inverted wms are from booklet panes. my understanding is they don't list them separately is because about anywhere from 30-40% or more are booklet stamps.

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Jansimon
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12 Apr 2013
04:01:26am

Approvals
re: KGV Watermarks

Michel lists normal watermark ("Wz stehend"), upside down ("Wz kopfstehend") and also the sideways watermark ("Wz liegend"). I suppose inverted and upside down is the same thing.

The 1 1/2d brown from 1934 (Sc. 212) is listed in Michel as #177.
177X - wmk normal: € 0.20
177Y - wmk sideways: € 5
177Z - wmk upside down: € 1

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Apr 2013
01:02:26pm
re: KGV Watermarks

Dedicated Great Britain collectors of definitives from the turn of the century to about 1967 seek these stamps with watermarks upright, inverted and sideways both to the left and the right.
The sideways come from booklet panes that are arranged on the printing plate with the panes in columns toe to toe or head to head thus producing watermarks sideways in both directions.
Colonial stamps of the KE-VII, KG-V, KG-VI and QE-II reigns also exist in multiple configurations as well as occasionally in different perforations.
I have been collecting The finely engraved Ceylon ( Now Sri Lanka) local view commemoratives in all these possible arrangements for some time.

Image Not Found

Some of this series can be found with sideways watermarks.

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Golovacz
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30 Jun 2013
01:30:16pm
re: KGV Watermarks

Michael....My son has just brought me a 2013 GB Concise cat. and the inverted and side WM are listed and how...I have not checked anything as yet but will eventualy.

Richard

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Golovacz
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01 Jul 2013
08:29:14am
re: KGV Watermarks

Stanley Gibbons GB Concise 2013

1912 KGV
1.5 penny brown regular M GB pound 6.00 U 1.5
WM Invert M Invert. 9..to70..

There does not seem to be any sideways WM but all the val. up to one shilling being very much dearer with the 10p. value at 2500 Pounds.
Needless to say I shall be checking the KGV watermarks tonight'

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
01 Jul 2013
02:22:25pm
re: KGV Watermarks

Thanks for the update! Happy hunting!

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Jul 2013
09:21:59pm
re: KGV Watermarks

By the way for anal trivia buffs, like me, it is actually the impression that is "upside down" since the watermark was created as the paper was produced and not after tghe images was added.
I just had to toss that into the discussion.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Jul 2013
09:50:22pm
re: KGV Watermarks

If you are going to examine the KG V, block cypher watermark closely for upright, inverted and sidewise watermarks, keep you eye out for a slightly different block cypher. The St Edward's Crown appears slightly plumper and the GvR is a tad shorter and wider. The paper is slightly different as it was an experiment and the value, should someone spot an example, is exponentially greater.
But there are examples out there and some were printed by Waterlow and issued for use.

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