Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
09:57:10pm
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/266211591817
It's hard to believe this clown has 299 feed backs at 100% positive. I can certainly understand why he doesn't take returns!
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@Harvey
I forget which SOR member said it, but everyone makes a mistake. Did you notify the seller of his mistake? Why did you call him a name as you did, I don't think any SOR member should be calling anyone a name, reflects badly on SOR!
1898
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08:10:47am
I put this up as a bit of fun!! Not to start a major war!! The seller is ignorant of stamps and I'm just going to leave it there. I just thought it was kind of funny and not worth a lot of effort!
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Ebay keeps promoting this one to me for some reason:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155441499696?mk ...
Josh
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12:38:28pm
There is a huge amount of this sort of crap on E-Bay! I really can't see any sense in it, no one would be dumb enough to buy this sort of grossly over priced item. You can always say that there is a sucker born every minute but there can't possibly be anyone that silly!! Most of these items are not mistakes, I'm not really sure what to call them. Someone suggested it's a way to launder money but that really doesn't make sense either. Just my opinion!
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There are too many of these to make it plausible all these sellers made a mistake, in my opinion. So there is something going on we do not understand (like some kind of money laundering scheme) or they are on to something, like some people actually do buy overpriced junk. If it was just silliness and of no use, it would have died out by now. And besides, it is not only on eBay. On Etsy one sees the same.
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@Anyone
I think calling someone a name reflects badly on SOR!
What do other SOR members think?
What does the powers at be think about this?
1898
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01:13:21pm
1898 OK, you win! I am sorry I called this person a clown, I know how much people love clowns 
!! I have been called much worse than that and didn't get as upset as you are pretending to be right now! It wasn't you I insulted so would you please drop this rant, if the powers that be want to chastise me I'm sure they are capable of doing so without your help. If you are upset at this response I am sorry but your righteous indignation seems a bit extreme to me. I almost deleted this but I decided to let it stand. Possibly that was a mistake!
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02:35:32pm
"it is not only on eBay"
There's an antique site I buy from occasionally called Ruby Lane and this type of stamp material even shows up there occasionally. There was a person a while ago advertising a very rare version of a Harding stamp at a huge price. I told him, since it is much easier to get in touch with sellers on this site, that he would have to get the stamp certified since no stamp collector would buy it without a certificate. He refused to do that for several reasons and continued to re-offer the stamp several times. To the best of my knowledge it never sold. This is a slightly different situation but not that far off. Also, the typical garbage we are discussing has started to show up on this site, but not often. I honestly can't figure out why this is happening. Unless there is something mysterious going on it really is a mystery to me!!
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I've bought many rare stamps without a cert. If you know what you are doing, you can make some great deals, more so today!
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Please stay on topic, this is not about buying rare stamps with or without a certificate, this is about very, very common stamps being offered for prices that are out of touch with reality. Furthermore, please do not start a quarrel without any reason.
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Why does this stuff happen?
Human nature is the first factor. The Antique Roadshow syndrome! The general public thinks anything old must be worth a fortune. And with eBay listings being absolutory free until you sell they have nothing to lose by taking a shot at getting $1000 for that 40 year old Lincoln 4 cent stamp!
I look at Facebook's stamp groups and every day there are people with some torn old stamp asking how valuable it is. They don't know and at least they are asking. It bothers me that the regular characters on those groups slam them hard.
Although we can look over a stamp mixture and pull out the valuable ones in minutes, we cannot assume the same for others. Give me a box of baseball cards and I'm completely lost! I'd have to look up each and every one!
Many years ago I worked with a guy who was into Chevy Camaros. He had his first car, a 1968 model and a recent one as a daily driver. He shared with me that he had a dealer brochure for every year Camaro. Each year he'd go to the dealer to get one and put it away. He was absolutely certain he was the only person to ever do this and he was sitting on a pile of gold.
I was a brochure collector and sold them on eBay at the time. Just to show him, I brought in a factory fresh box of 1978 Camaro brochures. I had paid something like $10 for the box at a car show, and was selling them for between $5-10 each. In reality thousands of this brochure still existed in as new condition! I was sorry to burst his bubble.
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Here is my opinion on why I think this stuff happens.
Ignorance mated with Apathy or Laziness
This is when a seller lists a mis-identified item due to not knowing any better. Some folks are willing to be tolerant of ignorance while others are less tolerant and believe that sellers should at least do some level of due diligence.
Wishful Thinking
This is when a seller lists a mis-identified item and has done a minimal amount of faulty due diligence. They typically have spent a few minutes looking at ‘similar’ items often sorting ‘by highest first’. They think that are at least not going to give anything away by listing this way when they know they do not know much about stamps or covers.
Delusional Thinking
This is when sellers have deluded themselves into thinking they have a treasure. These type people often have rebuffed experienced opinions and think themselves smarter. I find that they often have refuse to use the correct identification process which means starting with the assumption that they have the most common variety. (Apparently they missed basic science class in grade school when they taught how the scientific method works and the pitfalls of confirmation bias.)
Intentional Fraud aka Trolling For Suckers
This is when a seller’s listing is intentionally mis-leading or incorrect. They are counting on suckers who think that they can spot the ‘great buys’ on eBay by sorting with ‘lowest first’ listings. These auction listings often are started at a low price to attract this kind of buyer.
In my opinion, all of the above can have a negative impact on philately. I agree with Tom that human nature is in play so that this issue cannot really be policed. Instead, the only effective weapon in this war is knowledge. With eBay marketing being ‘it is perfectly fine to buy from unknown people half way across the earth used items from a picture’ there are some sellers who take full advantage of the venue. No matter how many times you might be able to get a listing taken down 10 more will pop up.
So I advocate two things.
First, when people post listings in forums like this, they should include a screen shot of the listing AND the seller’s name. Linking the listing is not good long-term since the link will be broken in 5-6 months when eBay takes it down. And when people click on the link they are increasing the number of eBay listing views which can encourage the seller to continue with this kind of listings.
And posting the sellers name means that search engines pick up the seller name and if anyone searches online for that seller name they will find the thread.
Second, we have to start promoting how to best buy online. Making good online buying decisions mean both knowing what you are buying but also knowing who you are buying from.
Towards this, eBay’s ‘Preferred seller and Feedback’ are virtually meaningless and designed to help eBay make more money. Feedback scores help eBay and eBay is the fox overseeing the henhouse. A convicted fraudster can get out of prison and the next day buy an existing eBay 100% Feedback account with thousands of feedbacks. Other times, the fraudsters will open multiple eBay accounts and build up their own feedback scores. And eBay will remove feedback for sellers who contact them. And lastly, eBay inexplicitly drops ONLY negative feedbacks after one year! These are all good reasons to not put trust into an eBay feedback score.
Don
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Thanks Don for the clear guidance in ways to help promote good buying practice and make bad purchases less likely.
Good practices for us as guardians of our hobby and protectors of our newest hobbyists.
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I think that this topic (buyer education) is a good thing for SOR to promote. SOR is a perfect venue in that it can support getting to know who you are buying from. Additionally, there is a fair amount of oversight that can occur here that a venue like eBay or HipStamp will never have.
Don
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From one of the Facebook groups...
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Oct 2023
09:57:10pm
I shouldn't bother with this kind of garbage but I couldn't resist this one!!!
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/266211591817
It's hard to believe this clown has 299 feed backs at 100% positive. I can certainly understand why he doesn't take returns!
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01:23:59am
re: Mint stamp on post card????
@Harvey
I forget which SOR member said it, but everyone makes a mistake. Did you notify the seller of his mistake? Why did you call him a name as you did, I don't think any SOR member should be calling anyone a name, reflects badly on SOR!
1898
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Oct 2023
08:10:47am
re: Mint stamp on post card????
I put this up as a bit of fun!! Not to start a major war!! The seller is ignorant of stamps and I'm just going to leave it there. I just thought it was kind of funny and not worth a lot of effort!
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re: Mint stamp on post card????
Ebay keeps promoting this one to me for some reason:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155441499696?mk ...
Josh
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Oct 2023
12:38:28pm
re: Mint stamp on post card????
There is a huge amount of this sort of crap on E-Bay! I really can't see any sense in it, no one would be dumb enough to buy this sort of grossly over priced item. You can always say that there is a sucker born every minute but there can't possibly be anyone that silly!! Most of these items are not mistakes, I'm not really sure what to call them. Someone suggested it's a way to launder money but that really doesn't make sense either. Just my opinion!
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Mint stamp on post card????
There are too many of these to make it plausible all these sellers made a mistake, in my opinion. So there is something going on we do not understand (like some kind of money laundering scheme) or they are on to something, like some people actually do buy overpriced junk. If it was just silliness and of no use, it would have died out by now. And besides, it is not only on eBay. On Etsy one sees the same.
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12:55:32pm
re: Mint stamp on post card????
@Anyone
I think calling someone a name reflects badly on SOR!
What do other SOR members think?
What does the powers at be think about this?
1898
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Oct 2023
01:13:21pm
re: Mint stamp on post card????
1898 OK, you win! I am sorry I called this person a clown, I know how much people love clowns !! I have been called much worse than that and didn't get as upset as you are pretending to be right now! It wasn't you I insulted so would you please drop this rant, if the powers that be want to chastise me I'm sure they are capable of doing so without your help. If you are upset at this response I am sorry but your righteous indignation seems a bit extreme to me. I almost deleted this but I decided to let it stand. Possibly that was a mistake!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Oct 2023
02:35:32pm
re: Mint stamp on post card????
"it is not only on eBay"
There's an antique site I buy from occasionally called Ruby Lane and this type of stamp material even shows up there occasionally. There was a person a while ago advertising a very rare version of a Harding stamp at a huge price. I told him, since it is much easier to get in touch with sellers on this site, that he would have to get the stamp certified since no stamp collector would buy it without a certificate. He refused to do that for several reasons and continued to re-offer the stamp several times. To the best of my knowledge it never sold. This is a slightly different situation but not that far off. Also, the typical garbage we are discussing has started to show up on this site, but not often. I honestly can't figure out why this is happening. Unless there is something mysterious going on it really is a mystery to me!!
Login to Like
this post
04:56:27pm
re: Mint stamp on post card????
I've bought many rare stamps without a cert. If you know what you are doing, you can make some great deals, more so today!
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Mint stamp on post card????
Please stay on topic, this is not about buying rare stamps with or without a certificate, this is about very, very common stamps being offered for prices that are out of touch with reality. Furthermore, please do not start a quarrel without any reason.
9 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Mint stamp on post card????
Why does this stuff happen?
Human nature is the first factor. The Antique Roadshow syndrome! The general public thinks anything old must be worth a fortune. And with eBay listings being absolutory free until you sell they have nothing to lose by taking a shot at getting $1000 for that 40 year old Lincoln 4 cent stamp!
I look at Facebook's stamp groups and every day there are people with some torn old stamp asking how valuable it is. They don't know and at least they are asking. It bothers me that the regular characters on those groups slam them hard.
Although we can look over a stamp mixture and pull out the valuable ones in minutes, we cannot assume the same for others. Give me a box of baseball cards and I'm completely lost! I'd have to look up each and every one!
Many years ago I worked with a guy who was into Chevy Camaros. He had his first car, a 1968 model and a recent one as a daily driver. He shared with me that he had a dealer brochure for every year Camaro. Each year he'd go to the dealer to get one and put it away. He was absolutely certain he was the only person to ever do this and he was sitting on a pile of gold.
I was a brochure collector and sold them on eBay at the time. Just to show him, I brought in a factory fresh box of 1978 Camaro brochures. I had paid something like $10 for the box at a car show, and was selling them for between $5-10 each. In reality thousands of this brochure still existed in as new condition! I was sorry to burst his bubble.
Login to Like
this post
re: Mint stamp on post card????
Here is my opinion on why I think this stuff happens.
Ignorance mated with Apathy or Laziness
This is when a seller lists a mis-identified item due to not knowing any better. Some folks are willing to be tolerant of ignorance while others are less tolerant and believe that sellers should at least do some level of due diligence.
Wishful Thinking
This is when a seller lists a mis-identified item and has done a minimal amount of faulty due diligence. They typically have spent a few minutes looking at ‘similar’ items often sorting ‘by highest first’. They think that are at least not going to give anything away by listing this way when they know they do not know much about stamps or covers.
Delusional Thinking
This is when sellers have deluded themselves into thinking they have a treasure. These type people often have rebuffed experienced opinions and think themselves smarter. I find that they often have refuse to use the correct identification process which means starting with the assumption that they have the most common variety. (Apparently they missed basic science class in grade school when they taught how the scientific method works and the pitfalls of confirmation bias.)
Intentional Fraud aka Trolling For Suckers
This is when a seller’s listing is intentionally mis-leading or incorrect. They are counting on suckers who think that they can spot the ‘great buys’ on eBay by sorting with ‘lowest first’ listings. These auction listings often are started at a low price to attract this kind of buyer.
In my opinion, all of the above can have a negative impact on philately. I agree with Tom that human nature is in play so that this issue cannot really be policed. Instead, the only effective weapon in this war is knowledge. With eBay marketing being ‘it is perfectly fine to buy from unknown people half way across the earth used items from a picture’ there are some sellers who take full advantage of the venue. No matter how many times you might be able to get a listing taken down 10 more will pop up.
So I advocate two things.
First, when people post listings in forums like this, they should include a screen shot of the listing AND the seller’s name. Linking the listing is not good long-term since the link will be broken in 5-6 months when eBay takes it down. And when people click on the link they are increasing the number of eBay listing views which can encourage the seller to continue with this kind of listings.
And posting the sellers name means that search engines pick up the seller name and if anyone searches online for that seller name they will find the thread.
Second, we have to start promoting how to best buy online. Making good online buying decisions mean both knowing what you are buying but also knowing who you are buying from.
Towards this, eBay’s ‘Preferred seller and Feedback’ are virtually meaningless and designed to help eBay make more money. Feedback scores help eBay and eBay is the fox overseeing the henhouse. A convicted fraudster can get out of prison and the next day buy an existing eBay 100% Feedback account with thousands of feedbacks. Other times, the fraudsters will open multiple eBay accounts and build up their own feedback scores. And eBay will remove feedback for sellers who contact them. And lastly, eBay inexplicitly drops ONLY negative feedbacks after one year! These are all good reasons to not put trust into an eBay feedback score.
Don
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re: Mint stamp on post card????
Thanks Don for the clear guidance in ways to help promote good buying practice and make bad purchases less likely.
Good practices for us as guardians of our hobby and protectors of our newest hobbyists.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Mint stamp on post card????
I think that this topic (buyer education) is a good thing for SOR to promote. SOR is a perfect venue in that it can support getting to know who you are buying from. Additionally, there is a fair amount of oversight that can occur here that a venue like eBay or HipStamp will never have.
Don
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this post
re: Mint stamp on post card????
From one of the Facebook groups...
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