Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Ian, if you are on Facebook then the "Ken Pugh Stamp Forgery" group is a good place to get fast answers.
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"any catalogue" you write, so that means that you could not find any answers in the (specialized) Michel catalogue?
What exactly is the problem, the designs look familiar, are the colours wrong? Perhaps they are proofs?
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Jan-Simon,
Yes they could not be found in any catalogue that I have seen.
They could not be found on the many, many, internet sales platforms and other sites.
Yes they are recognisable but in the wrong colours and not on white paper.
I put it up here to see if anyone recognised them and furnish details.
Surely listing in the "Can you help identify this?" section means that I am looking for the identification of these stamps.
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Ian,
I just wondered if you had the opportunity to check the Michel catalogue. If not, I could give it a try but now I know that this is not necessary.
Perhaps our valued member "Hockeynut", who has an incredible knowledge of all philatelic matters concerning Germany, can help here.
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03:30:24pm
One of the German Auction houses printed (reprinted)
mini-sheet examples of rare, expensive or otherwise
unavailable issues of early German issues. Somewhere,
I have half dozen or more and carefully cut they could
pass for imperf copies.
Note: Schneider Auctions (???)
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Charlie:-
Are your examples on white paper or coloured paper?
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Ian, if you had put the pictures on the Facebook group I mentioned above you would have an answer by now. On the other hand it may not be the correct answer.
Would you like me to put the pictures up?
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Hi Danny,
Thanks for the kind offer but no.
I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to find out. I found these in a mixed lot and was just wondering what they were and thought I would post them here on the off chance someone knew.
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03:25:03pm
" ....
Are your examples on white paper or coloured paper? ...."
Well, it was a search, as I'd not bothered with these
mini-sheets in years, but found five ofthem.
Unfortunately they are of no help in this case
because they are copied as if in black mounts
which gives a thin black border..
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Well I would like to try it but give no guarantees.
Bayern from left to right :
2II, 2Ia, 4II, 10a, 5c, 12, 6, 7 and the last one no idea maybe a fake?
The images are too small so that you cannot distinguish between the various plate differences.
Furthermore, the stamps are in some cases very damaged, which naturally depresses the value a lot.
Bergedorf
5
Value about 10 euros
Oldenburg
1
It is a pity that this stamp is cut too short at the bottom otherwise the list price would be about 850 euros.
A lot less now unfortunately.....
All catalog numbers according to Michel.
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There is something funny about these stamps. They seem to be black ink on coloured paper whereas the "normal" ones are coloured ink on white paper.
Here are some examples of the normal ones
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Yes they are black ink on coloured paper.
I have some stamps like Jan-Simons and those I scanned and listed here bear no resemblence to Jan-Simons.
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Well, it took me quite some time, but I now know what these are.
These are called "Instruktionsmarken" (instruction stamps). They were used on parcels with stamps which were sent to the post offices. The clerks could thus easily see which stamps were in the parcels.
The background colour of such blackprints corresponded to the colour of the stamps in the parcel. So despite their name they are not real stamps but rather illustrations cut from the wrapping paper. They seem to be known and coveted by Bavaria specialists and it is no surprise that they are, according to the book "Die Briefmarken von Altdeutschland" by K.K.Doberer some of the most forged stamps (or labels rather) of Bavaria. Go figure, there was only 1 of these for every 4500 stamps that were packed in such a wrapper and most of these wrappers were thrown away because it was packing paper. Whether yours are the real thing or forgeries, they are very interesting items.
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By the way, after finding an article about these instruction stamps, I read that they are mentioned in Michel. It took me quite some time, but I found it as some sort of foot note in the specialized catalogue. I am not surprised you were not able to find it.
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Thank you Jan-Simon for the information.
Aye it was easy to miss these two lines in Michel.
Especially as I have very limited German.
Where did you find the scans of the wrappers?
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On a German site when I knew that I had to search for instruktionsmarken
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06:03:33pm
Approvals
I found the following and they do not tie-up with any catalogue:-
..............
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re: Fake or Fortune?
Ian, if you are on Facebook then the "Ken Pugh Stamp Forgery" group is a good place to get fast answers.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
"any catalogue" you write, so that means that you could not find any answers in the (specialized) Michel catalogue?
What exactly is the problem, the designs look familiar, are the colours wrong? Perhaps they are proofs?
Login to Like
this post
05:05:44am
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Jan-Simon,
Yes they could not be found in any catalogue that I have seen.
They could not be found on the many, many, internet sales platforms and other sites.
Yes they are recognisable but in the wrong colours and not on white paper.
I put it up here to see if anyone recognised them and furnish details.
Surely listing in the "Can you help identify this?" section means that I am looking for the identification of these stamps.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Ian,
I just wondered if you had the opportunity to check the Michel catalogue. If not, I could give it a try but now I know that this is not necessary.
Perhaps our valued member "Hockeynut", who has an incredible knowledge of all philatelic matters concerning Germany, can help here.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
15 Sep 2022
03:30:24pm
re: Fake or Fortune?
One of the German Auction houses printed (reprinted)
mini-sheet examples of rare, expensive or otherwise
unavailable issues of early German issues. Somewhere,
I have half dozen or more and carefully cut they could
pass for imperf copies.
Note: Schneider Auctions (???)
Login to Like
this post
05:20:52pm
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Charlie:-
Are your examples on white paper or coloured paper?
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this post
re: Fake or Fortune?
Ian, if you had put the pictures on the Facebook group I mentioned above you would have an answer by now. On the other hand it may not be the correct answer. Would you like me to put the pictures up?
Login to Like
this post
05:58:48am
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the kind offer but no.
I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to find out. I found these in a mixed lot and was just wondering what they were and thought I would post them here on the off chance someone knew.
1 Member
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Sep 2022
03:25:03pm
re: Fake or Fortune?
" ....
Are your examples on white paper or coloured paper? ...."
Well, it was a search, as I'd not bothered with these
mini-sheets in years, but found five ofthem.
Unfortunately they are of no help in this case
because they are copied as if in black mounts
which gives a thin black border..
Login to Like
this post
re: Fake or Fortune?
Well I would like to try it but give no guarantees.
Bayern from left to right :
2II, 2Ia, 4II, 10a, 5c, 12, 6, 7 and the last one no idea maybe a fake?
The images are too small so that you cannot distinguish between the various plate differences.
Furthermore, the stamps are in some cases very damaged, which naturally depresses the value a lot.
Bergedorf
5
Value about 10 euros
Oldenburg
1
It is a pity that this stamp is cut too short at the bottom otherwise the list price would be about 850 euros.
A lot less now unfortunately.....
All catalog numbers according to Michel.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
There is something funny about these stamps. They seem to be black ink on coloured paper whereas the "normal" ones are coloured ink on white paper.
Here are some examples of the normal ones
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this post
03:00:07pm
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Yes they are black ink on coloured paper.
I have some stamps like Jan-Simons and those I scanned and listed here bear no resemblence to Jan-Simons.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
Well, it took me quite some time, but I now know what these are.
These are called "Instruktionsmarken" (instruction stamps). They were used on parcels with stamps which were sent to the post offices. The clerks could thus easily see which stamps were in the parcels.
The background colour of such blackprints corresponded to the colour of the stamps in the parcel. So despite their name they are not real stamps but rather illustrations cut from the wrapping paper. They seem to be known and coveted by Bavaria specialists and it is no surprise that they are, according to the book "Die Briefmarken von Altdeutschland" by K.K.Doberer some of the most forged stamps (or labels rather) of Bavaria. Go figure, there was only 1 of these for every 4500 stamps that were packed in such a wrapper and most of these wrappers were thrown away because it was packing paper. Whether yours are the real thing or forgeries, they are very interesting items.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
By the way, after finding an article about these instruction stamps, I read that they are mentioned in Michel. It took me quite some time, but I found it as some sort of foot note in the specialized catalogue. I am not surprised you were not able to find it.
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07:12:33pm
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re: Fake or Fortune?
Thank you Jan-Simon for the information.
Aye it was easy to miss these two lines in Michel.
Especially as I have very limited German.
Where did you find the scans of the wrappers?
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Fake or Fortune?
On a German site when I knew that I had to search for instruktionsmarken
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