Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Er ... could it be Canton Island? presumably a posting stage for the overseas mail. The clues are the inscription top left and the handstamp.
Having said that, I should add that I know nothing at all about New Zealand's air mail routes to USA. Nice stamps though - beautifully engraved. Unless I'm mistaken about that too.
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Tim... I think it is C ONE and that would be the Regional Post Office
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Hi Neville,
As it turns out you are completely correct. The "C.I." does stand for Canton Island. The cover that I have posted above was on the first ever airmail flight between New Zealand and the US. I have a second cover that I bought along with this one at the Minnesota Stamp Expo this last weekend that was on the same flight.
Here is the receiving cancellation at Canton Island:
Here is an interesting write-up about the first regular airmail between New Zealand and the US.
Here is the 2nd cover:
Regards ... Tim.
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07:58:55am
I can assure you that the "CI" or "C1" does not stand for Canton Island.
There has been online discussion on other forums that echo Bobggg's statement that it represents the main post office in the town and that the letters are actually C -one, but two covers below cast doubt on the numeral "1" rather than "I".
I have been unable to find any references online to a CI associated with anything in New Zealand, although there seems to be a "C1 Espresso" in Christchurch, which begs the question is this some Kiwi wording? Keeping my eyes open.
In the meantime, here are a few covers to ponder (all from my "Sold" database):
In the following two covers, note that the "1" in the date is clearly a serif font and the "CI" is non-serif. Unless you make the argument that they used a different font for the numbers, these would seem to indicate that it is actually the letter I, rather than the numeral 1 in the "CI".
Roy
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I haven't been able to find any info on C.I. either, but from indirect evidence I assume that whatever the abbreviation stands for, it has to do with a different flow for post: C.I. appears to be a departure post office for airmail, and for that reason one can only find C.I. cancels for the larger cities Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin (at least, those are the ones I could find). There was also a special cancel Auckland Overseas. Canton Island is an interesting red herring, but can't be what C.I. stands for. Canton Island is one of the Gilbert & Ellice Islands, currently Kiribati. Quoting Wikipedia: Pan American World Airways (Pan Am) arrived on Canton on 18 May 1939, to build facilities for their planned New Zealand flying boat service.
With that in mind, it would not make sense that mail from NZ to South Africa would be cancelled with the C.I. cancel, or mail from Auckland to Christchurch.
So summing up, based on the departure and arrival cities, the only thing that is the same for all is that it is not possible to go from A to B by road. And added to that, given the fact that the first C.I. cancels are from the mid 1930s, that would rule out mailboat services, because in that case there should have been such cancels already in the 19th century...
Jan-Simon
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08:54:17am
Searching some more through my Sold database, here is some more fuel for the discussion:
Notice the address!!!
Wellington to Wellington!
Registration label ! Clearly C -one
I think these make it clear it is C-one and that it is a post office designator or a precurser to a postal code. (Toronto Canada used city regions prior to postal codes).
Roy
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09:03:07am
I don't want to morph this interesting discussion into one about Canada, but for comparison sake, here are several covers to larger Canadian cities in pre-postal code days. Note the regional number designations within the city addresses:
Roy
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That's a breakthrough!
C.1. it is. It immediately gives more hits when you search for that. And it also explains C1 espresso in Christchurch: it is a coffee bar located in the old central post office at High Street! There is also a C1 espresso in Auckland, which is located in - surprise! - the old main post office.
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09:29:34am
" located in the old central post office at High Street!"
Well done! I missed that part... guess I didn't click through to the stories.
Case closed.
Tim, here is a challenge to write this up as an article!
Roy
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09:46:07am
A little more searching to tie a bow around this, focusing on registration labels:
Roy
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Thanks guys very much for the interest and effort you put into this discussion. It sure makes sense that the "C1" in each case designates the processing post office as the central post office for that postal district. It also makes sense to me that the mail to go on the initial flights between NZ and US was pulled together and processed by the central PO in each district. It also explains why another cover that I have that is cancelled "Christchurch C.1" and was only going locally in Christchurch.
And yes I agree Roy, this discussion will make a good article to add to the SOR Articles collections. I'll add that to my todos.
Thanks again everyone.
Regards ... Tim.
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A couple of my New Zealand covers have a cancellation that I don't understand that I hope someone can help me with. The following cover has a cancellation from "Auckland C.I.". What is the significance of the "C.I." ? I have a similar cover cancelled from "Christchurch C.I."
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re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
Er ... could it be Canton Island? presumably a posting stage for the overseas mail. The clues are the inscription top left and the handstamp.
Having said that, I should add that I know nothing at all about New Zealand's air mail routes to USA. Nice stamps though - beautifully engraved. Unless I'm mistaken about that too.
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07:04:15pm
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
Tim... I think it is C ONE and that would be the Regional Post Office
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re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
Hi Neville,
As it turns out you are completely correct. The "C.I." does stand for Canton Island. The cover that I have posted above was on the first ever airmail flight between New Zealand and the US. I have a second cover that I bought along with this one at the Minnesota Stamp Expo this last weekend that was on the same flight.
Here is the receiving cancellation at Canton Island:
Here is an interesting write-up about the first regular airmail between New Zealand and the US.
Here is the 2nd cover:
Regards ... Tim.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Jul 2022
07:58:55am
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
I can assure you that the "CI" or "C1" does not stand for Canton Island.
There has been online discussion on other forums that echo Bobggg's statement that it represents the main post office in the town and that the letters are actually C -one, but two covers below cast doubt on the numeral "1" rather than "I".
I have been unable to find any references online to a CI associated with anything in New Zealand, although there seems to be a "C1 Espresso" in Christchurch, which begs the question is this some Kiwi wording? Keeping my eyes open.
In the meantime, here are a few covers to ponder (all from my "Sold" database):
In the following two covers, note that the "1" in the date is clearly a serif font and the "CI" is non-serif. Unless you make the argument that they used a different font for the numbers, these would seem to indicate that it is actually the letter I, rather than the numeral 1 in the "CI".
Roy
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re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
I haven't been able to find any info on C.I. either, but from indirect evidence I assume that whatever the abbreviation stands for, it has to do with a different flow for post: C.I. appears to be a departure post office for airmail, and for that reason one can only find C.I. cancels for the larger cities Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin (at least, those are the ones I could find). There was also a special cancel Auckland Overseas. Canton Island is an interesting red herring, but can't be what C.I. stands for. Canton Island is one of the Gilbert & Ellice Islands, currently Kiribati. Quoting Wikipedia: Pan American World Airways (Pan Am) arrived on Canton on 18 May 1939, to build facilities for their planned New Zealand flying boat service.
With that in mind, it would not make sense that mail from NZ to South Africa would be cancelled with the C.I. cancel, or mail from Auckland to Christchurch.
So summing up, based on the departure and arrival cities, the only thing that is the same for all is that it is not possible to go from A to B by road. And added to that, given the fact that the first C.I. cancels are from the mid 1930s, that would rule out mailboat services, because in that case there should have been such cancels already in the 19th century...
Jan-Simon
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Jul 2022
08:54:17am
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
Searching some more through my Sold database, here is some more fuel for the discussion:
Notice the address!!!
Wellington to Wellington!
Registration label ! Clearly C -one
I think these make it clear it is C-one and that it is a post office designator or a precurser to a postal code. (Toronto Canada used city regions prior to postal codes).
Roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Jul 2022
09:03:07am
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
I don't want to morph this interesting discussion into one about Canada, but for comparison sake, here are several covers to larger Canadian cities in pre-postal code days. Note the regional number designations within the city addresses:
Roy
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Login to Like.
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re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
That's a breakthrough!
C.1. it is. It immediately gives more hits when you search for that. And it also explains C1 espresso in Christchurch: it is a coffee bar located in the old central post office at High Street! There is also a C1 espresso in Auckland, which is located in - surprise! - the old main post office.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Jul 2022
09:29:34am
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
" located in the old central post office at High Street!"
Well done! I missed that part... guess I didn't click through to the stories.
Case closed.
Tim, here is a challenge to write this up as an article!
Roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Jul 2022
09:46:07am
re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
A little more searching to tie a bow around this, focusing on registration labels:
Roy
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re: A question regarding New Zealand cancels
Thanks guys very much for the interest and effort you put into this discussion. It sure makes sense that the "C1" in each case designates the processing post office as the central post office for that postal district. It also makes sense to me that the mail to go on the initial flights between NZ and US was pulled together and processed by the central PO in each district. It also explains why another cover that I have that is cancelled "Christchurch C.1" and was only going locally in Christchurch.
And yes I agree Roy, this discussion will make a good article to add to the SOR Articles collections. I'll add that to my todos.
Thanks again everyone.
Regards ... Tim.
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