Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Trying to find clues that this one is not faked. Kinda suspicious with all the purple imprints on it. I can't imagine a postal clerk monkeying around with a single item to this extent. The one along the edge with the pointing fingers looks contrived. The date stamps with different formats don't add up to a plausible story, either.
I would almost bet money that this item is faked.
Thanks,
- Paul
Login to Like
this post
09:57:09pm
It looks fine to me.
The date stamps are the senders' (in German format "Okt") and the receiver's (Octo 23). Probably a private arrival date stamp, although it could be a post office datestamp, particularly if the address city is in the ex-Polish portion of Germany.
The pointing hand stamp indicated that stamps are not available at Gorlitz.
The "Postamt" (Post Office) and Postsache indicate that this is "Post Office Business". It may or may not actually be post office business, just sent by a post office employee or postmaster taking advantage of his position. Going to need an older "German as a first language" member to translate this script. It's beyond me.
The date is certainly right for the defaced Hitler postal card.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
Roy beat me to it. That looks good to me, and it's a lovely item.
Login to Like
this post
Thanks for the judgments, guys.
I just bought it, for $15.
I am attracted to the postwar Hitler obliterations. Shame that there are so many fakes.
Kinda kills the collecting impulse...
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
I would say that the cancel "Marken v Görlitz vergriffen" could be meant to say that the local stamps from Görlitz (issued and used between June and end of September 1945) are sold out / no longer available.
Funny to see that the cancels are all in Fraktur, since the Nazi government made the use of it illegal in 1941. Obviously the lettersets were still available somewhere. I found that suspicious at first, but a quick look in Michel showed that many of the local stamps from 1945 used Fraktur, so that seems to be legit.
As to the written text. A quick scan of it makes me think that this is business related. THere seems to be a dispute about the payment of some bills. I could not make out if the writer is the one who wants payment from a customer or that he is the customer trying to explain that he will pay, honestly, but not now.
best wishes,
Jan-Simon
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Tried some further deciphering. It seems that the recipient of this card, mister Willy Lessler (Gutzkowstrasse 9, Berlin Schöneberg - quite a long way away from Gorlitz), has written twice, on 3 September and 21 September, to negotiate a delay of payment and it seems he got this. But now, another 3 weeks later he still hasn't paid and it seems he is looking to place another order. The writer says he wants to be lenient and for once send out this new order of 10 "Nitze" / "Ritze" (can't make anything of it) but only if the unpaid invoices are paid now.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks, JanSimon!
Your interpretation of the message on the card seems to add credibility to the authenticity of the item. The economic turmoil in October, 1945 must have been overwhelming to small business.
Thanks so much for your investment of time in the research!
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
The addressee wanted to buy 10 "Sätze" (sets) of Görlitz stamps. The problem was that he could not pay the way he wanted, as transfers between accounts still weren't allowed (Berlin-Schöneberg was in the American Sector, and Görlitz in the Soviet Zone), and by October the Görlitz stamps were almost sold out. But if he would send 3.10 Mark in a letter, they would make an exception and send him the stamps. They would also enclose the postal cheque (I think; the handwriting is not too clear in places) that he sent and that could not be used. The latter implies that the card was also enclosed in an envelope which may explain the lack of a "proper" postmark. What with lack of materials after the war, it seems that invalidated postcards were used up as notepaper.
The Fraktur handstamps were just being used up, I suppose, and may have remained in use for many years afterwards. The use of the font was not forbidden, it just wasn't taught any more, and new publications were to be printed in Latin fonts.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
09:35:37pm
Opinions requested on this one:
Trying to find clues that this one is not faked. Kinda suspicious with all the purple imprints on it. I can't imagine a postal clerk monkeying around with a single item to this extent. The one along the edge with the pointing fingers looks contrived. The date stamps with different formats don't add up to a plausible story, either.
I would almost bet money that this item is faked.
Thanks,
- Paul
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Jan 2022
09:57:09pm
re: Germany 1945 post card
It looks fine to me.
The date stamps are the senders' (in German format "Okt") and the receiver's (Octo 23). Probably a private arrival date stamp, although it could be a post office datestamp, particularly if the address city is in the ex-Polish portion of Germany.
The pointing hand stamp indicated that stamps are not available at Gorlitz.
The "Postamt" (Post Office) and Postsache indicate that this is "Post Office Business". It may or may not actually be post office business, just sent by a post office employee or postmaster taking advantage of his position. Going to need an older "German as a first language" member to translate this script. It's beyond me.
The date is certainly right for the defaced Hitler postal card.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
re: Germany 1945 post card
Roy beat me to it. That looks good to me, and it's a lovely item.
Login to Like
this post
06:09:43pm
re: Germany 1945 post card
Thanks for the judgments, guys.
I just bought it, for $15.
I am attracted to the postwar Hitler obliterations. Shame that there are so many fakes.
Kinda kills the collecting impulse...
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Germany 1945 post card
I would say that the cancel "Marken v Görlitz vergriffen" could be meant to say that the local stamps from Görlitz (issued and used between June and end of September 1945) are sold out / no longer available.
Funny to see that the cancels are all in Fraktur, since the Nazi government made the use of it illegal in 1941. Obviously the lettersets were still available somewhere. I found that suspicious at first, but a quick look in Michel showed that many of the local stamps from 1945 used Fraktur, so that seems to be legit.
As to the written text. A quick scan of it makes me think that this is business related. THere seems to be a dispute about the payment of some bills. I could not make out if the writer is the one who wants payment from a customer or that he is the customer trying to explain that he will pay, honestly, but not now.
best wishes,
Jan-Simon
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Approvals
re: Germany 1945 post card
Tried some further deciphering. It seems that the recipient of this card, mister Willy Lessler (Gutzkowstrasse 9, Berlin Schöneberg - quite a long way away from Gorlitz), has written twice, on 3 September and 21 September, to negotiate a delay of payment and it seems he got this. But now, another 3 weeks later he still hasn't paid and it seems he is looking to place another order. The writer says he wants to be lenient and for once send out this new order of 10 "Nitze" / "Ritze" (can't make anything of it) but only if the unpaid invoices are paid now.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
08:46:13pm
re: Germany 1945 post card
Thanks, JanSimon!
Your interpretation of the message on the card seems to add credibility to the authenticity of the item. The economic turmoil in October, 1945 must have been overwhelming to small business.
Thanks so much for your investment of time in the research!
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
re: Germany 1945 post card
The addressee wanted to buy 10 "Sätze" (sets) of Görlitz stamps. The problem was that he could not pay the way he wanted, as transfers between accounts still weren't allowed (Berlin-Schöneberg was in the American Sector, and Görlitz in the Soviet Zone), and by October the Görlitz stamps were almost sold out. But if he would send 3.10 Mark in a letter, they would make an exception and send him the stamps. They would also enclose the postal cheque (I think; the handwriting is not too clear in places) that he sent and that could not be used. The latter implies that the card was also enclosed in an envelope which may explain the lack of a "proper" postmark. What with lack of materials after the war, it seems that invalidated postcards were used up as notepaper.
The Fraktur handstamps were just being used up, I suppose, and may have remained in use for many years afterwards. The use of the font was not forbidden, it just wasn't taught any more, and new publications were to be printed in Latin fonts.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.