Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Fake/forgery, or genuine?
To me, the overprint looks faked. By comparison to the image in Scott, on this stamp, the foot on the Y is too long, and the horizontal bar in the 1/4 fraction is too fat. Also, the numerals in the fraction don't look right. I think, typically, for genuine overprints, the overall height of the fraction is greater than the height of the Y. On this stamp, the height of the fraction is about the same as the height of the Y.
Could not find any images on the internet to compare.
Any help?
Thanks,
-Paul
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It's Scott #15.
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It does look like a 15 compared to the scott's picture . Someone here http://www.cubapsa.com/ might offer an opinion and they have an email on the contact page.
Hoping you're gonna post it in the auction 
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Thanks guys,
I'm not very confident in judging this stamp by comparing the overprint on it to the (crude) illustrations in Scott, but I can see differences between the overprint on Scott #5 and #6 as compared to Scott #15. The overprint shown in the catalog for Scott #15 indicates that the vertical of the "4" is not aligned with the "1", and the overprint on this stamp mimics that.
Still looks fishy to me.
It's not my stamp, it's one I was tempted to bid on. But, it's going to go for more than I would pay anyway if it's #15, especially with the pen cancel. If it had a nice pineapple cancel or a dated cancel, I'd be more attracted to it.
-Paul
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04:30:39pm
I supposedly have a copy of Cuba #15. I compared mine to the one shown and the major difference is the quality of the overprint. No offence, but the overprint on mine appears to have much more distinct lines. My camera has not been in working order for quite a while but I'm having lunch with a friend on Sunday evening who has a much better system than me. So with any luck I can add an image to this post at that time. In my experience the real items usually have a better overprint, but this might not always be true. I have five of the Puerto Principe series (Cuba #176 - #220) and the only one I'm happy with is the one I bought privately from one of the sellers here a few months ago. The other four I got from a local dealer at a much reduced price. All the early Cuba overprints, in my opinion, are very suspect!!
Edit: Tried to add a picture of my copy of #15 only to be told it was "too large". It really doesn't matter since I'm pretty convinced mine is fine because of where I picked it up. Better luck next time, I guess!
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I would think that most of what you will find without certificate is counterfeit.
I had my #5, 6 and 15 analyzed by members of the Cuban Philatelic Group, and unfortunately, per their expertise, ALL are counterfeited (see the little x above the stamp). (the valuation shown dates back a dozen years or so).
I am no longer attempting to find these stamps without certificates.
rrr...
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Thanks, Rrr,
That's a great perspective.
Without knowing what the experts' opinions were on your stamps, I would have judged 3 of them fakes. The one at upper right is the most 'dangerous'.
The one at lower right looks like it was done by the same person who faked the one I posted ...complete with wavy pen cancel! BTW, that stamp is currently up on eBay, auction ends later today. Last time I looked it was at $20 with 11 watchers. I will sometimes pay $5 for a fake just to have as a reference, but that's about my limit...
Speaking of fake vs genuine, I just received this beauty, yesterday:
It was accompanied by a 2021 Venezuelan Experto Filatelico certificate, with the judgement "ES LEGITIMO"
The design of this 1889 Coro y La Vela private stamp is not particularly attractive, but I wanted to add it to my Caribbean collection for completeness...Apparently, these stamps were pre-cancelled - that is the inverted handstamp on this stamp, which reads:
Anotada
CORREO DEL
KOMERCIO
In use, these stamps received no additional cancellation.
-Paul
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Oh, and I should have scanned this one for the sake of discussion:
It's a stamp in my collection, Scott #15, (1860) I believe. As I gaze at this high-res scan, I see nothing that suggests that the overprint is faked. If it's a faked overprint, it's very, very good indeed. But, of course, I'm no expert.
-Paul
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Here are two specimens are typical of genuine "I Griega" stamps. (thin and thick overprints)
More in this special article at:
http://www.somestamps.com/pages-articles/049-064/article051-200501-cuba-i-griega-summary.htm
Regads!
Rodolfo
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Thanks, Rodolfo!
Excellent research on this topic!
-Paul
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02:00:32pm
Here's an alleged Scott #6:
Fake/forgery, or genuine?
To me, the overprint looks faked. By comparison to the image in Scott, on this stamp, the foot on the Y is too long, and the horizontal bar in the 1/4 fraction is too fat. Also, the numerals in the fraction don't look right. I think, typically, for genuine overprints, the overall height of the fraction is greater than the height of the Y. On this stamp, the height of the fraction is about the same as the height of the Y.
Could not find any images on the internet to compare.
Any help?
Thanks,
-Paul
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02:23:00pm
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
It's Scott #15.
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02:32:43pm
Approvals
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
It does look like a 15 compared to the scott's picture . Someone here http://www.cubapsa.com/ might offer an opinion and they have an email on the contact page.
Hoping you're gonna post it in the auction
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03:00:15pm
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
Thanks guys,
I'm not very confident in judging this stamp by comparing the overprint on it to the (crude) illustrations in Scott, but I can see differences between the overprint on Scott #5 and #6 as compared to Scott #15. The overprint shown in the catalog for Scott #15 indicates that the vertical of the "4" is not aligned with the "1", and the overprint on this stamp mimics that.
Still looks fishy to me.
It's not my stamp, it's one I was tempted to bid on. But, it's going to go for more than I would pay anyway if it's #15, especially with the pen cancel. If it had a nice pineapple cancel or a dated cancel, I'd be more attracted to it.
-Paul
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
21 Jan 2022
04:30:39pm
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
I supposedly have a copy of Cuba #15. I compared mine to the one shown and the major difference is the quality of the overprint. No offence, but the overprint on mine appears to have much more distinct lines. My camera has not been in working order for quite a while but I'm having lunch with a friend on Sunday evening who has a much better system than me. So with any luck I can add an image to this post at that time. In my experience the real items usually have a better overprint, but this might not always be true. I have five of the Puerto Principe series (Cuba #176 - #220) and the only one I'm happy with is the one I bought privately from one of the sellers here a few months ago. The other four I got from a local dealer at a much reduced price. All the early Cuba overprints, in my opinion, are very suspect!!
Edit: Tried to add a picture of my copy of #15 only to be told it was "too large". It really doesn't matter since I'm pretty convinced mine is fine because of where I picked it up. Better luck next time, I guess!
Login to Like
this post
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
I would think that most of what you will find without certificate is counterfeit.
I had my #5, 6 and 15 analyzed by members of the Cuban Philatelic Group, and unfortunately, per their expertise, ALL are counterfeited (see the little x above the stamp). (the valuation shown dates back a dozen years or so).
I am no longer attempting to find these stamps without certificates.
rrr...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
01:59:19pm
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
Thanks, Rrr,
That's a great perspective.
Without knowing what the experts' opinions were on your stamps, I would have judged 3 of them fakes. The one at upper right is the most 'dangerous'.
The one at lower right looks like it was done by the same person who faked the one I posted ...complete with wavy pen cancel! BTW, that stamp is currently up on eBay, auction ends later today. Last time I looked it was at $20 with 11 watchers. I will sometimes pay $5 for a fake just to have as a reference, but that's about my limit...
Speaking of fake vs genuine, I just received this beauty, yesterday:
It was accompanied by a 2021 Venezuelan Experto Filatelico certificate, with the judgement "ES LEGITIMO"
The design of this 1889 Coro y La Vela private stamp is not particularly attractive, but I wanted to add it to my Caribbean collection for completeness...Apparently, these stamps were pre-cancelled - that is the inverted handstamp on this stamp, which reads:
Anotada
CORREO DEL
KOMERCIO
In use, these stamps received no additional cancellation.
-Paul
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this post
04:36:21pm
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
Oh, and I should have scanned this one for the sake of discussion:
It's a stamp in my collection, Scott #15, (1860) I believe. As I gaze at this high-res scan, I see nothing that suggests that the overprint is faked. If it's a faked overprint, it's very, very good indeed. But, of course, I'm no expert.
-Paul
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Auctions
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
Here are two specimens are typical of genuine "I Griega" stamps. (thin and thick overprints)
More in this special article at:
http://www.somestamps.com/pages-articles/049-064/article051-200501-cuba-i-griega-summary.htm
Regads!
Rodolfo
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07:35:43am
re: Early Cuba Overprints II - fake or genuine?
Thanks, Rodolfo!
Excellent research on this topic!
-Paul
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