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Canada/Other : Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

 

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lemaven
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04 Jan 2021
09:47:12pm
Looking to purchase this stamp (Scott# C8 Unwatermarked / C11 Watermarked) recently and noticed (for the first time ever) the Swastikas in the four corners.

Weird since none of the flights shown were to Germany and Hitler didn't become Chancellor until 1933.


Image Not Found


Any background info on this design inclusion would be appreciated.

Dave.
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DaveSheridan
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04 Jan 2021
09:56:17pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Until the swastika was appropriated by the NSDAP, it was an ancient good-luck symbol. Quite appropriate for this stamp I would think!

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lemaven
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04 Jan 2021
10:04:04pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Interesting. I just found reference to the Swastika being used specifically on airplanes of the USA and Great Britain originating around the WWI era. Still would be interested in any Newfoundland-specific info.

Image Not Found


As a side-note, I found the left-facing Swastika represents night and aspects of the Hindu Goddess "Kali" (which happens to be my first daughter's name!

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Philatarium
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APS #187980

04 Jan 2021
10:17:33pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

It's also used on Japanese maps to mark the location of Buddhist temples. Again, this use long preceeded its use as a Nazi symbol.

In looking up a citation to post here, I learned that in 2019 Japan decided to update the symbol to a tiered pagoda before the planned 2020 Olympics.

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/japanese-swastika/

https://www.spoon-tamago.com/2016/01/12/japan-to-redesign-its-pictograms-to-be-more-foreigner-friendly/

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pigdoc

05 Jan 2021
09:05:30am
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Wikipedia has one of the most exhaustive pages I've ever seen on any subject. 219 references!

Western use of the swastika in the early 20th century

-Paul


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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

05 Jan 2021
05:07:16pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Interesting short article on a hockey team called the Windsor Swastikas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Swastikas

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Goataholic

06 Jan 2021
02:07:25pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Fernie, B.C. Had a ladies hockey team called the Fernie Swatikas too. For many years a Cranbrook artist named ManWoman fought a battle to rehabilitate the swastika. There is an article in the Globe and Mail from 2013 about his fight- unfortunately it is behind a paywall.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

06 Jan 2021
04:01:00pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

My link contains a link to the BC team - not a lot of information there, but a bit! I think it's a shame that a symbol in use for that long can be ruined by one mad man, but I really doubt if the swastika will ever make a comeback. Look at how many towns changed their names because of WWI and WWII! And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus! Please don't get angry with me about this, but I wonder whether the use of Donald will increase or decrease! Please don't start a political commentary around this, I'm just wondering!Big Grin

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Benque

06 Jan 2021
04:20:49pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Or what about the name "Joe"? You know, for good ol "Uncle Joe" Stalin.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

06 Jan 2021
04:24:21pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Good point Dennis - I forgot that "If you live in a glass house, you should not throw stones". I'm trying to think of a villain whose name is Dennis, but all I can come up with is "Dennis the Menace"!

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Benque

06 Jan 2021
04:44:27pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Exactly Joe. Dennis the menace was not a mass murderer. Neither was anyone I am aware of named Donald.
So, given what is happening in USA today and in recent months, I believe your thinly masked question to be in EXTREMELY poor taste.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

06 Jan 2021
05:27:33pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

OK, sorry! 'nuff said Time Out By the way, I had a brother in law named Donald who was a real nice guy.

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doomboy
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06 Jan 2021
06:20:29pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

A few assorted swastika related notations:

1) There is an old mining town in Northern Ontario (now part of Kirkland Lake) called Swastika. During WWII, they had a referendum on changing the town's name which was rejected, on the grounds that the swastika was an ancient symbol of good luck and that the town, founded in the early 1900s mineral rushes, predated the Nazis.

2) The floors of Tache Hall, which was once the principal student residence at University of Manitoba (my alma mater), were done in a recurring swastika pattern. University leadership refused to change the patterns during WWII, citing their long history as good luck symbols. The car salesman at the dealership I worked at as a student was stationed there during training in WWII, and made note of both the floors and his support for that decision.

3) The Finnish air force's insignia was a blue swastika in a white roundel from 1918-1945. They changed (for obvious reasons like being right next to the Soviet Union) after WWII, but apparently, it still can be found as part of the air force's symbols. (See above reasons)


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partsguy
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07 Jan 2021
06:17:32pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

I'm trying to think of a villain whose name is Dennis, but all I can come up with is "Dennis the Menace"!

Dennis Rader, aka "BTK". Serial killer active from 1974 to 1991 in Kansas, responsible for 10 known murders. If you are into crime drama, the Netflix series "Mindhunter" is a great watch, roughly chronicling the formation of the FBI's behavioral profiling unit in the 1970's. The lead characters are agents who profile many of the well-known serial killers from that time period, including Rader. Based on reality, it is a scripted drama taking liberties here and there, but it really is worthwhile (if you're into that)!!!


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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

07 Feb 2022
06:42:13am
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

" .... So, given what is happening in USA today
and in recent months, I believe your thinly masked
question to be in EXTREMELY poor taste. ...."


I think it is a perfectly valid question and its
answer, yea or nea, will not b known for several
more years.
The only thing political about it is your perception.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

07 Feb 2022
09:05:15am

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re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

I think the topic of Swastikas in use, whether Third Reich, indigenous Americans, or Finnnish or American fighters, is fair game and need not lead one automatically or necessarily to current American politics.

There are, however, American groups who have adopted the Swastika and variants of it as part of their identity.

David

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

07 Feb 2022
09:52:33am
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

When I went to sea just about every vessel homeported in Calcutta, Bombay or Visakhapatnam had a Hakenkreuz molded into a plate (Badge ???) that formed the top of the bow plate. Quite often seamen did not understand and assumed the ship was German or a remnant of Nazism.
Also the symbol was a part of the decoration on British postal savings certificates in the early 1900s.I think I also saw it worked into the design of certain pre 1930 post cards.

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Bobstamp
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07 Feb 2022
11:09:58pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Harvey asked, "And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus!"

A long time ago! In 1961, actually. A boy in my high school graduating class (our dumb slogan, "The Upside Down Slass of 1961") was named Adolpho, which I assume is an Hispanic version of Adolf. Adolpho was a big boy, a football player. He had a grade average of D. He got a football scholarship. He didn't last a year.

Bob

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Bobstamp
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14 Feb 2022
11:16:25pm
re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Further to this discussion about the use of the swastika by people other than Nazis, here's a photo of my Lima Company commander, 1st Lt. Simon Gregory, taken in South Vietnam in front of a Buddhist temple decorated in part by swastikas.

Image Not Found

I can't tell you more about this particular image. Why does Simon appear to be wearing pyjamas? I have no idea. I still hear from Simon every March 5, which is the anniversary of the communist ambush of Lima Co. Simon was in temporary command of the company because its commander's eyes had been injured by phosphorous. He was as surprised as any of us by the ambush, which left 10 Marines in our company dead and 20 wounded. We had been told that the hill we were approaching was held by the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Viet Nam). It wasn't.

Bob

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

15 Feb 2022
08:03:53am

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re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

"And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus! "



When I was at secondary school ("high school" in North America), we had a teacher social studies whose name was Dolf. We didn't think much of that, until someone found out his initials were A.A. (Adolf Anton) and the man was in his forties. This was around 1985. One can't blame the teacher for this, but it was clear whose side his parents were on... Perhaps he unconsciously tried to compensate by teaching children about society and forms of government.

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lemaven

04 Jan 2021
09:47:12pm

Looking to purchase this stamp (Scott# C8 Unwatermarked / C11 Watermarked) recently and noticed (for the first time ever) the Swastikas in the four corners.

Weird since none of the flights shown were to Germany and Hitler didn't become Chancellor until 1933.


Image Not Found


Any background info on this design inclusion would be appreciated.

Dave.

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DaveSheridan

04 Jan 2021
09:56:17pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Until the swastika was appropriated by the NSDAP, it was an ancient good-luck symbol. Quite appropriate for this stamp I would think!

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lemaven

04 Jan 2021
10:04:04pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Interesting. I just found reference to the Swastika being used specifically on airplanes of the USA and Great Britain originating around the WWI era. Still would be interested in any Newfoundland-specific info.

Image Not Found


As a side-note, I found the left-facing Swastika represents night and aspects of the Hindu Goddess "Kali" (which happens to be my first daughter's name!

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Philatarium

APS #187980
04 Jan 2021
10:17:33pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

It's also used on Japanese maps to mark the location of Buddhist temples. Again, this use long preceeded its use as a Nazi symbol.

In looking up a citation to post here, I learned that in 2019 Japan decided to update the symbol to a tiered pagoda before the planned 2020 Olympics.

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/japanese-swastika/

https://www.spoon-tamago.com/2016/01/12/japan-to-redesign-its-pictograms-to-be-more-foreigner-friendly/

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pigdoc

05 Jan 2021
09:05:30am

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Wikipedia has one of the most exhaustive pages I've ever seen on any subject. 219 references!

Western use of the swastika in the early 20th century

-Paul


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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Jan 2021
05:07:16pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Interesting short article on a hockey team called the Windsor Swastikas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Swastikas

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" An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until they finally know everything about nothing. A generalist is someone who knows less and less about more and more until eventually they know nothing about everything!"
Goataholic

06 Jan 2021
02:07:25pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Fernie, B.C. Had a ladies hockey team called the Fernie Swatikas too. For many years a Cranbrook artist named ManWoman fought a battle to rehabilitate the swastika. There is an article in the Globe and Mail from 2013 about his fight- unfortunately it is behind a paywall.

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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Jan 2021
04:01:00pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

My link contains a link to the BC team - not a lot of information there, but a bit! I think it's a shame that a symbol in use for that long can be ruined by one mad man, but I really doubt if the swastika will ever make a comeback. Look at how many towns changed their names because of WWI and WWII! And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus! Please don't get angry with me about this, but I wonder whether the use of Donald will increase or decrease! Please don't start a political commentary around this, I'm just wondering!Big Grin

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" An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until they finally know everything about nothing. A generalist is someone who knows less and less about more and more until eventually they know nothing about everything!"
Benque

06 Jan 2021
04:20:49pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Or what about the name "Joe"? You know, for good ol "Uncle Joe" Stalin.

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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Jan 2021
04:24:21pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Good point Dennis - I forgot that "If you live in a glass house, you should not throw stones". I'm trying to think of a villain whose name is Dennis, but all I can come up with is "Dennis the Menace"!

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" An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until they finally know everything about nothing. A generalist is someone who knows less and less about more and more until eventually they know nothing about everything!"
Benque

06 Jan 2021
04:44:27pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Exactly Joe. Dennis the menace was not a mass murderer. Neither was anyone I am aware of named Donald.
So, given what is happening in USA today and in recent months, I believe your thinly masked question to be in EXTREMELY poor taste.

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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Jan 2021
05:27:33pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

OK, sorry! 'nuff said Time Out By the way, I had a brother in law named Donald who was a real nice guy.

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" An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until they finally know everything about nothing. A generalist is someone who knows less and less about more and more until eventually they know nothing about everything!"
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doomboy

06 Jan 2021
06:20:29pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

A few assorted swastika related notations:

1) There is an old mining town in Northern Ontario (now part of Kirkland Lake) called Swastika. During WWII, they had a referendum on changing the town's name which was rejected, on the grounds that the swastika was an ancient symbol of good luck and that the town, founded in the early 1900s mineral rushes, predated the Nazis.

2) The floors of Tache Hall, which was once the principal student residence at University of Manitoba (my alma mater), were done in a recurring swastika pattern. University leadership refused to change the patterns during WWII, citing their long history as good luck symbols. The car salesman at the dealership I worked at as a student was stationed there during training in WWII, and made note of both the floors and his support for that decision.

3) The Finnish air force's insignia was a blue swastika in a white roundel from 1918-1945. They changed (for obvious reasons like being right next to the Soviet Union) after WWII, but apparently, it still can be found as part of the air force's symbols. (See above reasons)


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partsguy

07 Jan 2021
06:17:32pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

I'm trying to think of a villain whose name is Dennis, but all I can come up with is "Dennis the Menace"!

Dennis Rader, aka "BTK". Serial killer active from 1974 to 1991 in Kansas, responsible for 10 known murders. If you are into crime drama, the Netflix series "Mindhunter" is a great watch, roughly chronicling the formation of the FBI's behavioral profiling unit in the 1970's. The lead characters are agents who profile many of the well-known serial killers from that time period, including Rader. Based on reality, it is a scripted drama taking liberties here and there, but it really is worthwhile (if you're into that)!!!


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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Feb 2022
06:42:13am

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

" .... So, given what is happening in USA today
and in recent months, I believe your thinly masked
question to be in EXTREMELY poor taste. ...."


I think it is a perfectly valid question and its
answer, yea or nea, will not b known for several
more years.
The only thing political about it is your perception.

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Login to Like
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
07 Feb 2022
09:05:15am

Auctions

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

I think the topic of Swastikas in use, whether Third Reich, indigenous Americans, or Finnnish or American fighters, is fair game and need not lead one automatically or necessarily to current American politics.

There are, however, American groups who have adopted the Swastika and variants of it as part of their identity.

David

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Feb 2022
09:52:33am

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

When I went to sea just about every vessel homeported in Calcutta, Bombay or Visakhapatnam had a Hakenkreuz molded into a plate (Badge ???) that formed the top of the bow plate. Quite often seamen did not understand and assumed the ship was German or a remnant of Nazism.
Also the symbol was a part of the decoration on British postal savings certificates in the early 1900s.I think I also saw it worked into the design of certain pre 1930 post cards.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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Bobstamp

07 Feb 2022
11:09:58pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Harvey asked, "And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus!"

A long time ago! In 1961, actually. A boy in my high school graduating class (our dumb slogan, "The Upside Down Slass of 1961") was named Adolpho, which I assume is an Hispanic version of Adolf. Adolpho was a big boy, a football player. He had a grade average of D. He got a football scholarship. He didn't last a year.

Bob

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Bobstamp

14 Feb 2022
11:16:25pm

re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

Further to this discussion about the use of the swastika by people other than Nazis, here's a photo of my Lima Company commander, 1st Lt. Simon Gregory, taken in South Vietnam in front of a Buddhist temple decorated in part by swastikas.

Image Not Found

I can't tell you more about this particular image. Why does Simon appear to be wearing pyjamas? I have no idea. I still hear from Simon every March 5, which is the anniversary of the communist ambush of Lima Co. Simon was in temporary command of the company because its commander's eyes had been injured by phosphorous. He was as surprised as any of us by the ambush, which left 10 Marines in our company dead and 20 wounded. We had been told that the hill we were approaching was held by the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Viet Nam). It wasn't.

Bob

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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
15 Feb 2022
08:03:53am

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re: Our Newfies Were Nazis? What Is Going On!!!

"And when's the last time ever met a person called Adolph or Adolphus! "



When I was at secondary school ("high school" in North America), we had a teacher social studies whose name was Dolf. We didn't think much of that, until someone found out his initials were A.A. (Adolf Anton) and the man was in his forties. This was around 1985. One can't blame the teacher for this, but it was clear whose side his parents were on... Perhaps he unconsciously tried to compensate by teaching children about society and forms of government.

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