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What we collect!
What we collect!


General Philatelic/Identify This? : Postage rate

 

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rwillis29
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26 Nov 2018
06:35:46pm
Hi, Can someone tell me why there is a 12 cent postage due on a 1954 Post Office Dep. Official Business envelope.
Image Not Found

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ikeyPikey
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26 Nov 2018
06:53:52pm
re: Postage rate

That "POSTAGE DUE 3 Cents" looks to have been typed by the addressor ... how weird is that?

Was the 'penalty' text crossed-out? It does not look like it ...

As to the manuscripted "12c", my best guess is that there were other postage due items - perhaps even Business Reply Mail - and they were bundled by a postal clerk, who put the total on the top piece.

This is/was standard practice for BRM, which makes for some pretty astonishing covers.

For the much larger customers - eg, trays of BRM - there is an accounting sheet that caught all of those postage due stamps and/or meter imprints.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (who would reverse the cover in the sleeve, so as to protect the good bits)

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rwillis29
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26 Nov 2018
07:09:03pm
re: Postage rate

The envelope is stamped postage due 3 cents. With 12 cents postage due on cover. That would explain it. Thank you Richard

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roy
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26 Nov 2018
09:53:23pm
re: Postage rate

Here is a nice Prexie "top of the stack" business reply postage due cover using prexies as postage dues. (From my "Sold database").

39 x 4c = $1.56

Image Not Found

Roy

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roy
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26 Nov 2018
10:00:08pm
re: Postage rate

Here is the other way of handling postage due on business reply mail. A two page postage due bill with $240 postage due stamps affixed (those are all $5 postage due stamps!)

Image Not Found

Roy

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"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

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rwillis29
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27 Nov 2018
06:49:11pm
re: Postage rate

Image Not Found
Found more with extra Postage due

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

27 Nov 2018
07:39:06pm
re: Postage rate

That's not "extra postage due".

The surface rate at this time was 2 1/2d for the first ounce. The next ounce was another 1d. It looks like the sender thought that paying double the surface rate was sufficient for airmail, but the airmail rate for 1 oz was 1 shilling (12d), resulting in a 7d shortfall.

The postage due rules at the time were quite complex, involving the equivalent airmail rate from the US to Britain (I have seen these on the internet in the past, but don't have time to find them right now).

Accordingly, I believe this is the usual "double charge" for an airmail deficiency.

Roy

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"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

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rwillis29
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06 Dec 2018
09:44:19am
re: Postage rate

Thank you Roy

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

06 Dec 2018
10:07:28am
re: Postage rate

Actually, now that I look at it again, the "1/2" marking probably indicates 1 shilling 2d (1'2) or 14 pence, which is exactly double the short paid amount. This was translated to US$0.23 which implies an exchange rate of £1 = US$3.95, which was about right for the time.

Roy

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"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
biggeorge
Members Picture


06 Dec 2018
11:23:59am
re: Postage rate

Here is an example from an exhibit I had a few years ago. this postcard has $342.82 worth of postage!
Image Not Found

This is the company I used to work for and they used Business Reply Mail to help evaluate the service technicians. The techs left a card like this with the customer after a service call.

George

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michael78651

06 Dec 2018
12:24:36pm
re: Postage rate

LOL. I think that card was used to show payment for business reply mail. See the "BR" on the left side of the card.

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biggeorge
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06 Dec 2018
04:44:55pm
re: Postage rate

Eactly! I have several of these that the Mail Room saved for me. This is the one with the most amount we owed fo the Business Reply mail.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

06 Dec 2018
06:59:42pm
re: Postage rate

Back in the late 1970s I worked for a large home builder and was responsible for the mail. They'd send out huge mailings to consumers with a response card to get a free catalog. We'd get back 1,000s of responses!

This was past the date when they used postage due stamps on printed sheets. They wanted to just print a register receipt and cancel it with a registry dot. I looked it up and regulations said I could pay postage due with mint postage stamps, by having them cancelled. And they'd be returned to me as my receipt.

At first the postal workers balked, but after a conversation with the postmaster, that became our way of doing business. After a mailing, on a normal day, I'd get to cancel a few sheets of current commemoratives. But my jewel is a complete sheet of the then current $1 stamp. I still have it.

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michael78651

06 Dec 2018
10:54:12pm
re: Postage rate

I send back all the business reply envelopes and post cards that I get in junk mail that do not have my name and address. Sometimes I even put competitor ads in the reply envelope to add more weight. I figure that's one way to help the post office get more money!

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

07 Dec 2018
04:13:57am
re: Postage rate

In the 1970 Abbie Hoffman "Steal This Book", he advocated taping bricks to return reply cards as a form of civil disobedience against 'The Man'. People did this for a few months before the USPS developed policies for handling the situation (they stopped forwarding heavy objects back to the sender and charging them postage due).
Don

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michael78651

07 Dec 2018
09:16:14am
re: Postage rate

I only send paper Winking

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

09 Dec 2018
04:11:58am
re: Postage rate

" ... that I get in junk mail that
do not have my name and address. ..."


Shucks, Michael, I use my address stamp
on such things so they know who sent it
back to them, and with some other
advertising inside. I did get an inquiry
once or twice as to why, and I politely
sent back a note saying I thought they
might be in the market for whatever I
had included and thrilled to get the
unsolicited advertisement and an envelope
to reply to whatever company it was.
Of course, unless they included a paid return
envelope, I would forgetfully short pay the
postage by a penny or two, (back when the
rates were 5¢ or 10¢ ), and about a penny
or two more in recent years. Enough that
the envelopes seem to have been sent
forward, postage due.
When I do not want to be known, I still
have the address stamp from the business
I sold about forty years ago. The building
was knocked down and an multi business
office building, replaces it, so any response
should be returned to the sender, as well.
This is war man, have some fun.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
rwillis29

26 Nov 2018
06:35:46pm

Hi, Can someone tell me why there is a 12 cent postage due on a 1954 Post Office Dep. Official Business envelope.
Image Not Found

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1 Member
likes this post.
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Members Picture
ikeyPikey

26 Nov 2018
06:53:52pm

re: Postage rate

That "POSTAGE DUE 3 Cents" looks to have been typed by the addressor ... how weird is that?

Was the 'penalty' text crossed-out? It does not look like it ...

As to the manuscripted "12c", my best guess is that there were other postage due items - perhaps even Business Reply Mail - and they were bundled by a postal clerk, who put the total on the top piece.

This is/was standard practice for BRM, which makes for some pretty astonishing covers.

For the much larger customers - eg, trays of BRM - there is an accounting sheet that caught all of those postage due stamps and/or meter imprints.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (who would reverse the cover in the sleeve, so as to protect the good bits)

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Members Picture
rwillis29

26 Nov 2018
07:09:03pm

re: Postage rate

The envelope is stamped postage due 3 cents. With 12 cents postage due on cover. That would explain it. Thank you Richard

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
26 Nov 2018
09:53:23pm

re: Postage rate

Here is a nice Prexie "top of the stack" business reply postage due cover using prexies as postage dues. (From my "Sold database").

39 x 4c = $1.56

Image Not Found

Roy

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
26 Nov 2018
10:00:08pm

re: Postage rate

Here is the other way of handling postage due on business reply mail. A two page postage due bill with $240 postage due stamps affixed (those are all $5 postage due stamps!)

Image Not Found

Roy

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
rwillis29

27 Nov 2018
06:49:11pm

re: Postage rate

Image Not Found
Found more with extra Postage due

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
27 Nov 2018
07:39:06pm

re: Postage rate

That's not "extra postage due".

The surface rate at this time was 2 1/2d for the first ounce. The next ounce was another 1d. It looks like the sender thought that paying double the surface rate was sufficient for airmail, but the airmail rate for 1 oz was 1 shilling (12d), resulting in a 7d shortfall.

The postage due rules at the time were quite complex, involving the equivalent airmail rate from the US to Britain (I have seen these on the internet in the past, but don't have time to find them right now).

Accordingly, I believe this is the usual "double charge" for an airmail deficiency.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
rwillis29

06 Dec 2018
09:44:19am

re: Postage rate

Thank you Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
06 Dec 2018
10:07:28am

re: Postage rate

Actually, now that I look at it again, the "1/2" marking probably indicates 1 shilling 2d (1'2) or 14 pence, which is exactly double the short paid amount. This was translated to US$0.23 which implies an exchange rate of £1 = US$3.95, which was about right for the time.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
biggeorge

06 Dec 2018
11:23:59am

re: Postage rate

Here is an example from an exhibit I had a few years ago. this postcard has $342.82 worth of postage!
Image Not Found

This is the company I used to work for and they used Business Reply Mail to help evaluate the service technicians. The techs left a card like this with the customer after a service call.

George

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
michael78651

06 Dec 2018
12:24:36pm

re: Postage rate

LOL. I think that card was used to show payment for business reply mail. See the "BR" on the left side of the card.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
biggeorge

06 Dec 2018
04:44:55pm

re: Postage rate

Eactly! I have several of these that the Mail Room saved for me. This is the one with the most amount we owed fo the Business Reply mail.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
06 Dec 2018
06:59:42pm

re: Postage rate

Back in the late 1970s I worked for a large home builder and was responsible for the mail. They'd send out huge mailings to consumers with a response card to get a free catalog. We'd get back 1,000s of responses!

This was past the date when they used postage due stamps on printed sheets. They wanted to just print a register receipt and cancel it with a registry dot. I looked it up and regulations said I could pay postage due with mint postage stamps, by having them cancelled. And they'd be returned to me as my receipt.

At first the postal workers balked, but after a conversation with the postmaster, that became our way of doing business. After a mailing, on a normal day, I'd get to cancel a few sheets of current commemoratives. But my jewel is a complete sheet of the then current $1 stamp. I still have it.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
michael78651

06 Dec 2018
10:54:12pm

re: Postage rate

I send back all the business reply envelopes and post cards that I get in junk mail that do not have my name and address. Sometimes I even put competitor ads in the reply envelope to add more weight. I figure that's one way to help the post office get more money!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
07 Dec 2018
04:13:57am

re: Postage rate

In the 1970 Abbie Hoffman "Steal This Book", he advocated taping bricks to return reply cards as a form of civil disobedience against 'The Man'. People did this for a few months before the USPS developed policies for handling the situation (they stopped forwarding heavy objects back to the sender and charging them postage due).
Don

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
michael78651

07 Dec 2018
09:16:14am

re: Postage rate

I only send paper Winking

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
09 Dec 2018
04:11:58am

re: Postage rate

" ... that I get in junk mail that
do not have my name and address. ..."


Shucks, Michael, I use my address stamp
on such things so they know who sent it
back to them, and with some other
advertising inside. I did get an inquiry
once or twice as to why, and I politely
sent back a note saying I thought they
might be in the market for whatever I
had included and thrilled to get the
unsolicited advertisement and an envelope
to reply to whatever company it was.
Of course, unless they included a paid return
envelope, I would forgetfully short pay the
postage by a penny or two, (back when the
rates were 5¢ or 10¢ ), and about a penny
or two more in recent years. Enough that
the envelopes seem to have been sent
forward, postage due.
When I do not want to be known, I still
have the address stamp from the business
I sold about forty years ago. The building
was knocked down and an multi business
office building, replaces it, so any response
should be returned to the sender, as well.
This is war man, have some fun.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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