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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

 

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

02 May 2018
12:26:43am

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Hi everybody,

Right now I am spending a wonderful vacation in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. We have had a great time so far, checking out the sights. We have been downtown but also spent time watching giant douglas fir trees, snow covered mountains and beautiful waterfalls.
We have been able to do this because we were so lucky to be hosted by good friends here in Victoria and if that's not enough, we have all very generously been presented with wonderful gifts. The kids have received toys, Canadian candy and clothes, my wife received a few nice handbags and a large bottle of maple syrup and I received a suitcase full of stamps, stockbooks and catalogues. Yes, you read this correctly, a suitcase! OK, it is a small trolley that you can bring in the airplane cabin. A very lovely one even with Winnie the Pooh on the outside (acquired in the local thrift shop Happy )
It has brought a little problem with it though. Or perhaps it is not a problem, I just don't know. So here comes the question: has anyone here got any experience with bringing home such an amount of stamps? It would be a bit of a pity if customs would create a fuzz about this. I do not know the value of the stamps, but the whole packet contains a rather recent Unitrade catalogue (2014) and a huge amount of Canadian stamp sheets, and recent stamps. I have not had the time to have a good look at it but it must be worth a fortune if I were to catalogue it all. A few things I saw: the 2009 hockey stampsheet with the "moving" stamps, most of the early airmails, a whole bunch of sheets from the seventies and eighties (flags, paintings etc) and a lot of recent stamps from the last ten years or so.

So what is wise: should I keep it all in that one small suitcase, or should i divide it over the various other suitcases we bring along?

To close off this message, here are a few pictures from our trip, so far:

Image Not Found
The vancouver Island coastline with the Olympic Mountains of the USA on the background.

Image Not Found
Sofie, our youngest daughter in front of Victoria harbour

Image Not Found
Anna, our other daughter (who just had her sixth birthday here in Canada) and me in the watertaxi in Victoria. The Empress hotel on the background.


Jan-Simon
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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

02 May 2018
12:48:10am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

If it was me, I would keep it all in the original packaging and simply tell the truth.
Why is that such a foreign concept?

Lars

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02 May 2018
08:03:30am

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Keep in mind two things.

1. Customs agents are better at judging if you are lying than your own mother. They look at body language every working minute.

2. If you forget to declare something it is not a simple matter of saying - "Oops, sorry - I forgot about that." Most recent example of an egregious example:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-customs-fined-500-bringing-apple-delta-us/story?id=54663462

You could look up probably duties (if any) on your own countries customs website. That way you will have an idea of what cost might be involved.

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JohnnyRockets
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02 May 2018
08:47:59am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Hi,

I have been through customs about 6 times in my life.

While not that many, I found it easiest to just "go with it". Declare things if they had value that had been purchased in the country that you were in. I don't think gifts have to be declared, but do not quote me on that.

I think it would be hard to really put a value on the stamps for duty purposes.

My guess would be that nobody cares and as they are a "gift" do you even have to declare them? They aren't food or any of the other "scary" items.

If asked, just tell them they are stamps given to you by a collector friend. Should be smooth is my thinking.

Now, take everything I have just stated with a grain of salt, as I may be completely off the mark and VERY well could be WRONG! Happy


JR

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sheepshanks
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02 May 2018
09:39:03am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Think you need to explore this site. https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/individuals/abroad_and_customs/restricted_prohibited_import_export/

Then also check with Canadian customs regarding the export of foodstuffs which will probably be your biggest problem.

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musicman
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APS #213005

02 May 2018
09:41:01am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

My suggestion would be to ask the person who gave you the gift(s) if they would mind giving you the receipt.

This sounds like poor etiquette, but consider this;

If you have no receipt, the customs official must use his own judgement (i.e. 'guess')
as to actual value, which could very well be WAY over what was paid for it as a gift to you.

On the other hand, if you show a receipt of the purchase, this will be what they go by;
and I suspect - according to what you mentioned about actual collector-value - would be WAY below the purchase price.

Now - if you are telling us that ONLY the Pooh bag was the purchase, then all the above is null and void!

If the Philatelic items were (I assume)from a former stamp collector as a gift to you,
then none of my rambling has been of use, and you have a difficult decision to make!

And I would be with Lars in that regard - the truth.

Honesty is always the best policy.Happy

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lemaven
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02 May 2018
11:24:49am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Good on you Jan-Simon for now being able to claim the mantle of "The Hoard" (TM). A couple things:

"Customs agents are better at judging if you are lying than your own mother."


This explains the most messed-up friend I ever had ... his mother was a Canadian Border Security Agent.

Never ever mess with Customs Agents or the CRA (our Canadian version of the IRS, i.e. "Tax Agents"). You would be safer going to the local Hells Angels Clubhouse and calling them "losers".

Don't try an end-run like packing separate bunches of stamps in different bags. You will be caught - and when you do, that behavior will scream "I'm guilty, I knew what I was doing, and I thought you would be too stupid to connect the dots". Keep them all together and make sure you declare them. You have some beautiful daughters that you don't want to see you only on Visitor's Day...

Your phone can be inspected (and will be if you are suspicious), so maybe send a message with a couple pictures to some SOR members before you leave and ask, "I was given these as a gift. I don't know what their value is. I will probably keep them and start collecting these stamps as a hobby. But if I was to sell them eventually, what do you think they would get if you or a fellow member was to buy them?" Then you at least have some documentation to provide a declared value (whether or not it is "precise") - and they are unlikely to think this is worthwhile to pursue (compared to smuggling cocaine or plant materials - which you were hopefully not given as a gift).

Your concern is NOT with Canadian Customs (although you could be talking to Transportation Security if a baggage inspection at check-in reveals you are carrying hazardous materials - unknown liquids moreso than scraps of paper). The issue of duties is the purview of the country into which you are entering. So, if you are flying back to The Netherlands, you'll want to check their regulations, not those of Canada.


Good luck. And if needed, you can send me the suitcase'o'stamps to avoid any issues (as long as you pay the postage). Rolling On The Floor Laughing






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michael78651

02 May 2018
12:24:49pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Even with gifts, there may be a limit as to how much value can be brought into a country duty free. If you are bringing in a large amount of items, then it may be construed by customs agents that the items are not gifts, but merchandise and subject to duty since the presumption will be that the items are for resale.

It's always a good idea to check your country's importation rules before going on a trip. If you buy alot of things, it may be worth it to mail it home to yourself.

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TribalErnie

02 May 2018
12:44:23pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Jan-Simon, enjoy your vacation. Beautiful children! Enjoy these years because they sure do grow up fast. I'll be at UCF commencement this weekend. My first born daughter earns her graduate degree in speech language pathology.

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JohnnyRockets
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02 May 2018
01:28:22pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I'm with Ernieinjax, Jan-Simon.

Enjoy those years with your little ones, they are very fun!

My daughter is now 21 and I had a real nice time hanging out with her last night and just chatting.

But... She is a realtor now and moved on to "big girl problems"...

Sometimes I miss the "little girl problems"... Big Grin


All of it is great, but the younger years are "simpler", shall we say... Happy


JR

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sheepshanks
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02 May 2018
06:03:32pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Anglophile, not to press a point but there were three questions, the first being in the subject title. The second was

"has anyone here got any experience with bringing home such an amount of stamps? "


The third as in your response.
The only folks who can give a definite answer would be customs themselves, which is why I put up the link.

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doomboy
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02 May 2018
10:02:19pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Jan-Simon:

Keep it all together and, as lemaven suggested, claim a value at what you honestly believe resale would be. My experience with customs is that if you are honest, they often will be quite accomodating. I think that the personal exemption for the Netherlands is just over 400 euros - does the Netherlands allow you to pool the family exemptions? Do you think the real value (not catalogue) is that much higher?

-Darryl

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londonbus1
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03 May 2018
04:22:05am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

"Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?"

In my experience, nothing.

I have both left and returned with large collections, made many journeys and visits gone through customs many, many times in all parts of this world and never had a problem with stamps....or anything else come to that.

Just walk through the 'nothing to declare' section and you will be fine.

Not a worry.

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

03 May 2018
10:01:04am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

My five cents worth...

1) get a receipt (a must have. as it will prevent any issues about value of stamps.)

2) declare it - if the total of 'importable goods' falls below the travelers custom limit (300/400€ if I recall properly), then there's no fees to you.

-k-

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03 May 2018
10:08:25am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

""I have both left and returned with large collections, made many journeys and visits gone through customs many, many times in all parts of this world and never had a problem with stamps....or anything else come to that.

Just walk through the 'nothing to declare' section and you will be fine.

Not a worry.""



That may work in your country. In many countries it will not. And the consequences of it not working in some countries is far beyond a bit of inconvenience. The monetary cost of fines, etc far exceed the cost of doing it legally in the first place.

Moderator Note: Added the Quote box to differentiate the quote from the message left by the poster.


(Modified by Moderator on 2018-05-03 11:20:52)
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angore
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Al
Collector, Moderator

03 May 2018
01:43:36pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I agree if the country states you need to declare then declare. The lack of prior issues will not make one bit of difference if caught once.

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

05 May 2018
04:10:03pm

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Well, we returned home today and after reading your comments and combining these with my own experience from other travels in which I may not have brought home such an amount of stamps before, but surely other stuff and the information from the Dutch revenue service, I decided not to worry about it and just add the stuff to my luggage and do as I always do. And of course, nothing happened. I walked through customs as I have always done.

Thanks for all the advice and other nice comments. It is late now, I am tired after a long day of travelling so I will turn in for the night.

Jan-Simon

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

05 May 2018
08:03:47pm
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Glad to see it was a non event! It would have been irony if they wanted duty on the rare and valuable Winnie the Pooh suitcase and not the tatters of paper inside!

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lerivage

09 May 2018
12:52:52am
re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I arrive late on this story but looking at European legislation, no VAT is due for stuff in your own luggage. By the way should I assume we will more approval books? Michel

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

09 May 2018
02:52:52am

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

"By the way should I assume we will more approval books?"



Yes, but many of what I got is Canada, I do not know if that would be of any interest to you. But rest assured, plenty of others, so there will be new books soon.

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philb
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09 May 2018
11:31:00am

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

i came through U.S. customs from Canada yesterday and they were taking everyone to the little room...first time i was not waved through in 13 years. They did not care about my stamps..only looking for plants or meat.Happy

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

13 May 2018
04:40:32pm

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

The first lots from the suitcase have been put in the approvals. Still many to sort, mostly Canada...

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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
02 May 2018
12:26:43am

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Hi everybody,

Right now I am spending a wonderful vacation in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. We have had a great time so far, checking out the sights. We have been downtown but also spent time watching giant douglas fir trees, snow covered mountains and beautiful waterfalls.
We have been able to do this because we were so lucky to be hosted by good friends here in Victoria and if that's not enough, we have all very generously been presented with wonderful gifts. The kids have received toys, Canadian candy and clothes, my wife received a few nice handbags and a large bottle of maple syrup and I received a suitcase full of stamps, stockbooks and catalogues. Yes, you read this correctly, a suitcase! OK, it is a small trolley that you can bring in the airplane cabin. A very lovely one even with Winnie the Pooh on the outside (acquired in the local thrift shop Happy )
It has brought a little problem with it though. Or perhaps it is not a problem, I just don't know. So here comes the question: has anyone here got any experience with bringing home such an amount of stamps? It would be a bit of a pity if customs would create a fuzz about this. I do not know the value of the stamps, but the whole packet contains a rather recent Unitrade catalogue (2014) and a huge amount of Canadian stamp sheets, and recent stamps. I have not had the time to have a good look at it but it must be worth a fortune if I were to catalogue it all. A few things I saw: the 2009 hockey stampsheet with the "moving" stamps, most of the early airmails, a whole bunch of sheets from the seventies and eighties (flags, paintings etc) and a lot of recent stamps from the last ten years or so.

So what is wise: should I keep it all in that one small suitcase, or should i divide it over the various other suitcases we bring along?

To close off this message, here are a few pictures from our trip, so far:

Image Not Found
The vancouver Island coastline with the Olympic Mountains of the USA on the background.

Image Not Found
Sofie, our youngest daughter in front of Victoria harbour

Image Not Found
Anna, our other daughter (who just had her sixth birthday here in Canada) and me in the watertaxi in Victoria. The Empress hotel on the background.


Jan-Simon

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
02 May 2018
12:48:10am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

If it was me, I would keep it all in the original packaging and simply tell the truth.
Why is that such a foreign concept?

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

02 May 2018
08:03:30am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Keep in mind two things.

1. Customs agents are better at judging if you are lying than your own mother. They look at body language every working minute.

2. If you forget to declare something it is not a simple matter of saying - "Oops, sorry - I forgot about that." Most recent example of an egregious example:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-customs-fined-500-bringing-apple-delta-us/story?id=54663462

You could look up probably duties (if any) on your own countries customs website. That way you will have an idea of what cost might be involved.

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JohnnyRockets

02 May 2018
08:47:59am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Hi,

I have been through customs about 6 times in my life.

While not that many, I found it easiest to just "go with it". Declare things if they had value that had been purchased in the country that you were in. I don't think gifts have to be declared, but do not quote me on that.

I think it would be hard to really put a value on the stamps for duty purposes.

My guess would be that nobody cares and as they are a "gift" do you even have to declare them? They aren't food or any of the other "scary" items.

If asked, just tell them they are stamps given to you by a collector friend. Should be smooth is my thinking.

Now, take everything I have just stated with a grain of salt, as I may be completely off the mark and VERY well could be WRONG! Happy


JR

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sheepshanks

02 May 2018
09:39:03am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Think you need to explore this site. https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/individuals/abroad_and_customs/restricted_prohibited_import_export/

Then also check with Canadian customs regarding the export of foodstuffs which will probably be your biggest problem.

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musicman

APS #213005
02 May 2018
09:41:01am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

My suggestion would be to ask the person who gave you the gift(s) if they would mind giving you the receipt.

This sounds like poor etiquette, but consider this;

If you have no receipt, the customs official must use his own judgement (i.e. 'guess')
as to actual value, which could very well be WAY over what was paid for it as a gift to you.

On the other hand, if you show a receipt of the purchase, this will be what they go by;
and I suspect - according to what you mentioned about actual collector-value - would be WAY below the purchase price.

Now - if you are telling us that ONLY the Pooh bag was the purchase, then all the above is null and void!

If the Philatelic items were (I assume)from a former stamp collector as a gift to you,
then none of my rambling has been of use, and you have a difficult decision to make!

And I would be with Lars in that regard - the truth.

Honesty is always the best policy.Happy

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lemaven

02 May 2018
11:24:49am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Good on you Jan-Simon for now being able to claim the mantle of "The Hoard" (TM). A couple things:

"Customs agents are better at judging if you are lying than your own mother."


This explains the most messed-up friend I ever had ... his mother was a Canadian Border Security Agent.

Never ever mess with Customs Agents or the CRA (our Canadian version of the IRS, i.e. "Tax Agents"). You would be safer going to the local Hells Angels Clubhouse and calling them "losers".

Don't try an end-run like packing separate bunches of stamps in different bags. You will be caught - and when you do, that behavior will scream "I'm guilty, I knew what I was doing, and I thought you would be too stupid to connect the dots". Keep them all together and make sure you declare them. You have some beautiful daughters that you don't want to see you only on Visitor's Day...

Your phone can be inspected (and will be if you are suspicious), so maybe send a message with a couple pictures to some SOR members before you leave and ask, "I was given these as a gift. I don't know what their value is. I will probably keep them and start collecting these stamps as a hobby. But if I was to sell them eventually, what do you think they would get if you or a fellow member was to buy them?" Then you at least have some documentation to provide a declared value (whether or not it is "precise") - and they are unlikely to think this is worthwhile to pursue (compared to smuggling cocaine or plant materials - which you were hopefully not given as a gift).

Your concern is NOT with Canadian Customs (although you could be talking to Transportation Security if a baggage inspection at check-in reveals you are carrying hazardous materials - unknown liquids moreso than scraps of paper). The issue of duties is the purview of the country into which you are entering. So, if you are flying back to The Netherlands, you'll want to check their regulations, not those of Canada.


Good luck. And if needed, you can send me the suitcase'o'stamps to avoid any issues (as long as you pay the postage). Rolling On The Floor Laughing






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michael78651

02 May 2018
12:24:49pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Even with gifts, there may be a limit as to how much value can be brought into a country duty free. If you are bringing in a large amount of items, then it may be construed by customs agents that the items are not gifts, but merchandise and subject to duty since the presumption will be that the items are for resale.

It's always a good idea to check your country's importation rules before going on a trip. If you buy alot of things, it may be worth it to mail it home to yourself.

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TribalErnie

02 May 2018
12:44:23pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Jan-Simon, enjoy your vacation. Beautiful children! Enjoy these years because they sure do grow up fast. I'll be at UCF commencement this weekend. My first born daughter earns her graduate degree in speech language pathology.

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JohnnyRockets

02 May 2018
01:28:22pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I'm with Ernieinjax, Jan-Simon.

Enjoy those years with your little ones, they are very fun!

My daughter is now 21 and I had a real nice time hanging out with her last night and just chatting.

But... She is a realtor now and moved on to "big girl problems"...

Sometimes I miss the "little girl problems"... Big Grin


All of it is great, but the younger years are "simpler", shall we say... Happy


JR

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sheepshanks

02 May 2018
06:03:32pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Anglophile, not to press a point but there were three questions, the first being in the subject title. The second was

"has anyone here got any experience with bringing home such an amount of stamps? "


The third as in your response.
The only folks who can give a definite answer would be customs themselves, which is why I put up the link.

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doomboy

02 May 2018
10:02:19pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Jan-Simon:

Keep it all together and, as lemaven suggested, claim a value at what you honestly believe resale would be. My experience with customs is that if you are honest, they often will be quite accomodating. I think that the personal exemption for the Netherlands is just over 400 euros - does the Netherlands allow you to pool the family exemptions? Do you think the real value (not catalogue) is that much higher?

-Darryl

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londonbus1

03 May 2018
04:22:05am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

"Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?"

In my experience, nothing.

I have both left and returned with large collections, made many journeys and visits gone through customs many, many times in all parts of this world and never had a problem with stamps....or anything else come to that.

Just walk through the 'nothing to declare' section and you will be fine.

Not a worry.

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scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
03 May 2018
10:01:04am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

My five cents worth...

1) get a receipt (a must have. as it will prevent any issues about value of stamps.)

2) declare it - if the total of 'importable goods' falls below the travelers custom limit (300/400€ if I recall properly), then there's no fees to you.

-k-

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03 May 2018
10:08:25am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

""I have both left and returned with large collections, made many journeys and visits gone through customs many, many times in all parts of this world and never had a problem with stamps....or anything else come to that.

Just walk through the 'nothing to declare' section and you will be fine.

Not a worry.""



That may work in your country. In many countries it will not. And the consequences of it not working in some countries is far beyond a bit of inconvenience. The monetary cost of fines, etc far exceed the cost of doing it legally in the first place.

Moderator Note: Added the Quote box to differentiate the quote from the message left by the poster.


(Modified by Moderator on 2018-05-03 11:20:52)
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Al
Collector, Moderator
03 May 2018
01:43:36pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I agree if the country states you need to declare then declare. The lack of prior issues will not make one bit of difference if caught once.

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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
05 May 2018
04:10:03pm

Approvals

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Well, we returned home today and after reading your comments and combining these with my own experience from other travels in which I may not have brought home such an amount of stamps before, but surely other stuff and the information from the Dutch revenue service, I decided not to worry about it and just add the stuff to my luggage and do as I always do. And of course, nothing happened. I walked through customs as I have always done.

Thanks for all the advice and other nice comments. It is late now, I am tired after a long day of travelling so I will turn in for the night.

Jan-Simon

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
05 May 2018
08:03:47pm

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

Glad to see it was a non event! It would have been irony if they wanted duty on the rare and valuable Winnie the Pooh suitcase and not the tatters of paper inside!

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lerivage

09 May 2018
12:52:52am

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

I arrive late on this story but looking at European legislation, no VAT is due for stuff in your own luggage. By the way should I assume we will more approval books? Michel

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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
09 May 2018
02:52:52am

Approvals

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

"By the way should I assume we will more approval books?"



Yes, but many of what I got is Canada, I do not know if that would be of any interest to you. But rest assured, plenty of others, so there will be new books soon.

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philb

09 May 2018
11:31:00am

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re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

i came through U.S. customs from Canada yesterday and they were taking everyone to the little room...first time i was not waved through in 13 years. They did not care about my stamps..only looking for plants or meat.Happy

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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
13 May 2018
04:40:32pm

Approvals

re: Bringing back stamps from a trip abroad, what will customs say?

The first lots from the suitcase have been put in the approvals. Still many to sort, mostly Canada...

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