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Europe/Other : Perforations - Netherlands Classics

 

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Mar 2017
03:17:45pm
Just started working on my Netherlands classics. It's going to take forever since I discovered there are 5 different perfs plus compounds. So every stamp has to be checked - my eyes are going to be killing me. I've only checked 6 stamps so far and I'm exhausted. So a small pile of that particular stamp is awaiting my perf gauge and then I looked at the catalogue and three of my other stamps (two of which have become large mounds at this point!) have up to 5 variations as well. Oh boy, this is gonna be fun! Nail Biting

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simothecat

12 Mar 2017
04:57:26pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I assume you are talking about the Willem III issue of 1872.

Whatever you do, don't get a NVPH (Netherlands specialized catalogue). It lists 10 different perforations, though some just differ in the size of the holes. Sorting all those out will really drive you crazy.

Jan

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Mar 2017
05:12:43pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Yup, that's the set that I'm currently pulling my hair about.

I've set out a piece of paper and listing the perfs on it as I go to separate them all into each category. That's the easiest way I could think if doing it.


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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Mar 2017
06:06:30pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Thus far I've come up with 6 varieties - 5 of which are compounds. Methinks this project will take forever.

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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simothecat

12 Mar 2017
08:08:04pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

The ones you can run across are:

Common:
12½ : 12
12½

Less Common:
13½ : 13¼

Scarce:
11½ : 12
13¼ x 14

Rare:
14 (occurs on 4 values, but you will probably see it only on the 2½ guilder high value.)

Jan

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Mar 2017
08:32:07pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I've found:

12.5 x 12.5
13 x 12
13.5 x 13
12.75 x 12
12.25 x 12
12.5 x 12
13.25 x 13.25

I've double checked them on 3 different gauges.


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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Mar 2017
09:03:46pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

For 1867 William III, I found:
13.5 x 14
14 x 13.75

For 1869 Coat of Arms, I found:
13.25 x 13.25 (one of which has a straight edge on the top - appears not to be perf cut because of the wide margin which slants upward and definitely wider than the regular design)
14 x 13.75
13 x 13.25 (right side is a straight edge - "might" be a perf cut - again with wide margin but definitely clean cut)
13.75 x 13

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simothecat

12 Mar 2017
10:41:31pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Kelly,

This is from memory, and if I can find the source, I'll give a more accurate response.

One of the perforation combs used for the 1872 issue was quite "uneven". Although nominally 12.5 : 12, it actually varies from stamp to stamp, and the horizontal can be anywhere from 12.25 to 12.75. In fact the left stamp in each row is only 11.5.

Jan

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simothecat

12 Mar 2017
11:53:06pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I found an article "Holland - 1872-1891 - A Study in Serration" by W.E. Gerrish dated 3 March 1955 which claims that for the 12.5:12 B comb, the horizontal perfs measure (by stamp):

11.5, 12.75 full, 12.75, 12.75, 12.5, 12.25, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5

Jan

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philb
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13 Mar 2017
08:37:51am

Auctions
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I will keep whats left of my sanity and play with the numeral cancels and the small round cancels !

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

13 Mar 2017
08:58:58am

Approvals
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Should at one day the moment arrive that I have nothing else to do, I can always take out the Dutch duplicates stockbooks and check all of these oldies for special perfs. I doubt I ever will...

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www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Mar 2017
10:49:58am
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Thanks for info - I'm not usually one to bother about perf varieties but when I saw so many, I pulled out my gauges because these are so different.

I have one gauge that is perfectly clear that I can hold in front of a light to find the accurate perf measurement.

If the King has thrown these at me, what awaits with the Queen? I've got some syncopated as well as perfins. I also have a syncopated perfin which a friend from the Netherlands once gave me some background on (which I need to locate) that significantly changed the cv.

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
Jansimon
Members Picture


collector, seller, MT member

13 Mar 2017
11:09:11am

Approvals
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Syncopated perfs were in use between 1925 and 1933 and yes, they can turn a very common stamp into a valuable one. But you need the right stamp and the right type of syncopation for that (there are four main types). Over here syncopated perfs are more popular than perfins. I do not know whether a syncopated perfin is more or less desireable.

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www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
simothecat

13 Mar 2017
02:01:04pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

There was a quote in the article I referenced above:

"During a period from 1872 to 1888 the perforations varied so much between 11.5 and 14 and combinations that it would only confuse the ordinary collector to attempt to bring order out of disorder." (Westoby, Comprehensive Adhesive Postal Stamps of Europe, 1900)

While I do collect these by perforation, I don't go into as much detail as you have started.

You will run across perforation differences with the Queen, but usually it is not so bad, with the exception of the 1923 series.

Jan

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Mar 2017
02:06:01pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

When I get to that stamp, I will put up the info on it that Rob gave me years ago. Thus far it is my only syncopated perfin. I found 3 other perfins in this lot that I'm working through right now. I've just arrived at the 1876 Numerals.

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
philb
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13 Mar 2017
06:58:47pm

Auctions
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I had to pull my album out and check the synchs for perfins. i found one...i think scott calls it 185aImage Not Found

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philb
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13 Mar 2017
07:08:25pm

Auctions
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

This is the other side..from the back it looks like E JImage Not Found

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simothecat

13 Mar 2017
08:04:31pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Hi Phil,

I think the perfin is EL (N.V. Handel in Elektrische Artikelen "Elektrolux", 's-Gravenhage.)

Jan

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philb
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13 Mar 2017
08:19:35pm

Auctions
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Jan, Sounds good..thanks ! Here is some of the reading material my wife uses before going to sleep !Image Not Found

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"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

13 Mar 2017
08:43:28pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I show most of the early shades on my site. However I don't show all of the 1876 numerals as there was no space left on the page and there are many of them. The album is to difficult for me to get at right now or I would scan the page they're on, for you. They are really pretty easy to tell the shades apart. It looks like I need to put up my syncopated perf pages also. You'll have real fun when you get to them.

My Netherlands collection is here: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/netherlands/netherlands.html

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
Poodle_Mum
Members Picture


A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Mar 2017
08:50:48pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Mitch - I took a look at your page. Do you have a variety with the different perfs - standard and compounds?

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
Poodle_Mum
Members Picture


A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

14 Mar 2017
03:59:50am
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Well I've finished up to the end of the 1876 Numerals. Between the 1867 William III and the end of the 1876 Numerals, I've come across 17 different perfs - mostly compounds. I've also come across a variety of colours. So I've finally finished them and labeled each section by perf and colour (will finish the latter tmw - my eyes hurt too much to try to see colour variety).

My friend who helps me work on my stamps promptly announced tonight that I'm insane. I think it's fun. She said she'll pick sorting any day over these!

Insane though I may be, it is surprisingly fun. Now I understand why some US Classics collectors get so excited about varieties. I could never do it with those - they would drive me over the edge. Just trying to figure out all the explanations of the US varieties in Scott gives me a headache.

But these are pretty cool!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
AntoniusRa
Members Picture


The truth is within and only you can reveal it

14 Mar 2017
01:17:35pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Mum
I have little interest in all the different perf variations. I've gone a step farther than Scott Specialty pages by adding shade variants but the perf variants are farther than I want to go. Collecting the world as seriously as I do is pretty insane but specializing in every country just isn't plausible.
The short answer is: No

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
        

 

Author/Postings

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
03:17:45pm

Just started working on my Netherlands classics. It's going to take forever since I discovered there are 5 different perfs plus compounds. So every stamp has to be checked - my eyes are going to be killing me. I've only checked 6 stamps so far and I'm exhausted. So a small pile of that particular stamp is awaiting my perf gauge and then I looked at the catalogue and three of my other stamps (two of which have become large mounds at this point!) have up to 5 variations as well. Oh boy, this is gonna be fun! Nail Biting

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
simothecat

12 Mar 2017
04:57:26pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I assume you are talking about the Willem III issue of 1872.

Whatever you do, don't get a NVPH (Netherlands specialized catalogue). It lists 10 different perforations, though some just differ in the size of the holes. Sorting all those out will really drive you crazy.

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
05:12:43pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Yup, that's the set that I'm currently pulling my hair about.

I've set out a piece of paper and listing the perfs on it as I go to separate them all into each category. That's the easiest way I could think if doing it.


Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
06:06:30pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Thus far I've come up with 6 varieties - 5 of which are compounds. Methinks this project will take forever.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
simothecat

12 Mar 2017
08:08:04pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

The ones you can run across are:

Common:
12½ : 12
12½

Less Common:
13½ : 13¼

Scarce:
11½ : 12
13¼ x 14

Rare:
14 (occurs on 4 values, but you will probably see it only on the 2½ guilder high value.)

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
08:32:07pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I've found:

12.5 x 12.5
13 x 12
13.5 x 13
12.75 x 12
12.25 x 12
12.5 x 12
13.25 x 13.25

I've double checked them on 3 different gauges.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
09:03:46pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

For 1867 William III, I found:
13.5 x 14
14 x 13.75

For 1869 Coat of Arms, I found:
13.25 x 13.25 (one of which has a straight edge on the top - appears not to be perf cut because of the wide margin which slants upward and definitely wider than the regular design)
14 x 13.75
13 x 13.25 (right side is a straight edge - "might" be a perf cut - again with wide margin but definitely clean cut)
13.75 x 13

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
simothecat

12 Mar 2017
10:41:31pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Kelly,

This is from memory, and if I can find the source, I'll give a more accurate response.

One of the perforation combs used for the 1872 issue was quite "uneven". Although nominally 12.5 : 12, it actually varies from stamp to stamp, and the horizontal can be anywhere from 12.25 to 12.75. In fact the left stamp in each row is only 11.5.

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post
simothecat

12 Mar 2017
11:53:06pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I found an article "Holland - 1872-1891 - A Study in Serration" by W.E. Gerrish dated 3 March 1955 which claims that for the 12.5:12 B comb, the horizontal perfs measure (by stamp):

11.5, 12.75 full, 12.75, 12.75, 12.5, 12.25, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5

Jan

Like
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this post
Members Picture
philb

13 Mar 2017
08:37:51am

Auctions

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I will keep whats left of my sanity and play with the numeral cancels and the small round cancels !

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
13 Mar 2017
08:58:58am

Approvals

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Should at one day the moment arrive that I have nothing else to do, I can always take out the Dutch duplicates stockbooks and check all of these oldies for special perfs. I doubt I ever will...

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
10:49:58am

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Thanks for info - I'm not usually one to bother about perf varieties but when I saw so many, I pulled out my gauges because these are so different.

I have one gauge that is perfectly clear that I can hold in front of a light to find the accurate perf measurement.

If the King has thrown these at me, what awaits with the Queen? I've got some syncopated as well as perfins. I also have a syncopated perfin which a friend from the Netherlands once gave me some background on (which I need to locate) that significantly changed the cv.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
13 Mar 2017
11:09:11am

Approvals

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Syncopated perfs were in use between 1925 and 1933 and yes, they can turn a very common stamp into a valuable one. But you need the right stamp and the right type of syncopation for that (there are four main types). Over here syncopated perfs are more popular than perfins. I do not know whether a syncopated perfin is more or less desireable.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
simothecat

13 Mar 2017
02:01:04pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

There was a quote in the article I referenced above:

"During a period from 1872 to 1888 the perforations varied so much between 11.5 and 14 and combinations that it would only confuse the ordinary collector to attempt to bring order out of disorder." (Westoby, Comprehensive Adhesive Postal Stamps of Europe, 1900)

While I do collect these by perforation, I don't go into as much detail as you have started.

You will run across perforation differences with the Queen, but usually it is not so bad, with the exception of the 1923 series.

Jan

Like
Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
02:06:01pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

When I get to that stamp, I will put up the info on it that Rob gave me years ago. Thus far it is my only syncopated perfin. I found 3 other perfins in this lot that I'm working through right now. I've just arrived at the 1876 Numerals.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
philb

13 Mar 2017
06:58:47pm

Auctions

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I had to pull my album out and check the synchs for perfins. i found one...i think scott calls it 185aImage Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
Members Picture
philb

13 Mar 2017
07:08:25pm

Auctions

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

This is the other side..from the back it looks like E JImage Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
simothecat

13 Mar 2017
08:04:31pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Hi Phil,

I think the perfin is EL (N.V. Handel in Elektrische Artikelen "Elektrolux", 's-Gravenhage.)

Jan

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philb

13 Mar 2017
08:19:35pm

Auctions

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Jan, Sounds good..thanks ! Here is some of the reading material my wife uses before going to sleep !Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
13 Mar 2017
08:43:28pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

I show most of the early shades on my site. However I don't show all of the 1876 numerals as there was no space left on the page and there are many of them. The album is to difficult for me to get at right now or I would scan the page they're on, for you. They are really pretty easy to tell the shades apart. It looks like I need to put up my syncopated perf pages also. You'll have real fun when you get to them.

My Netherlands collection is here: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/netherlands/netherlands.html

Like
Login to Like
this post

mitch.seymourfamily. ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
08:50:48pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Mitch - I took a look at your page. Do you have a variety with the different perfs - standard and compounds?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
14 Mar 2017
03:59:50am

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Well I've finished up to the end of the 1876 Numerals. Between the 1867 William III and the end of the 1876 Numerals, I've come across 17 different perfs - mostly compounds. I've also come across a variety of colours. So I've finally finished them and labeled each section by perf and colour (will finish the latter tmw - my eyes hurt too much to try to see colour variety).

My friend who helps me work on my stamps promptly announced tonight that I'm insane. I think it's fun. She said she'll pick sorting any day over these!

Insane though I may be, it is surprisingly fun. Now I understand why some US Classics collectors get so excited about varieties. I could never do it with those - they would drive me over the edge. Just trying to figure out all the explanations of the US varieties in Scott gives me a headache.

But these are pretty cool!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
14 Mar 2017
01:17:35pm

re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics

Mum
I have little interest in all the different perf variations. I've gone a step farther than Scott Specialty pages by adding shade variants but the perf variants are farther than I want to go. Collecting the world as seriously as I do is pretty insane but specializing in every country just isn't plausible.
The short answer is: No

Like
Login to Like
this post

mitch.seymourfamily. ...
        

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