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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Approvals Disc. : Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

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cardstamp
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20 Feb 2016
01:30:12am

Approvals
I posted this in this section because I understand it is not visible to the general public as compared to the approvals thread. This has been brought up several times before. I know there is a rule that buyers should pay their invoices within 5 days of receipt unless other arrangements are made. I still believe that buyers are not aware of this and do not bother to read the rules.
Back in October I had brought up the fact that I had a repeat buyer who selects large amount of items from my approval books and then ignores my invoices for long periods of time. Then after a few weeks goes by I get a message "the dog ate my homework". In the past I have been patient and eventually I do get the payment. It just happened again - a large amount of stamps (over $100) was selected earlier this month. I sent the invoice on February 7. I gave it some time but I sent a second invoice this week and finally got a message back this evening that sorry they have been away for work and it will be at least another two weeks before they will be able to send payment.
I believe the buyer will eventually pay but it should not be this difficult. I am sure the buyer is not aware about the 5 day rule and I do not want to be nasty about it but there has to be a better way to make this more visible. Why cant there be a statement on the approvals main page that states the rule ? I believe I am going to start putting a statement on all of my new approval book pages that state the rule. If this were a commercial site I would simply block the buyer regardless of how much he spends.
Steve
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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Feb 2016
02:11:11am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

And if you complain or send a dunning letter you will get a mote saying "What's the big deal, you now I'm good for it !!!"

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amsd
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20 Feb 2016
06:53:56am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

there ARE options.

report it to the auctioneer (he handles problems for auctions and approvals, lucky dog) and he can solve it for this time; moreover, the auctioneer (and I'm still helping Michael, so I'll gladly step in if you want) will be alerted, and we don't take kindly to dealing with the same people over the same problems multiple times. We are easily tired, and it's easier for us to just ban problem buyers

you can include new text in your offerings, but my guess is that the interest in reading the rules that duplicate what's already there won't go far

you can, as you do, post in the DB that there are problems and buyers ought not be cavalier about breaking rules.

we do NOT block individuals from other individuals' offerings, under the philosophy that if the guy is THAT bad that he should be banned from X's offerings, he ought to be banned from the whole alphabet of sellers.

and, I'm sorry (in the rhetorical way), but advance permission to change the seller's terms is expected to be obtained if a buyer intends to break them

David


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Soundcrest
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20 Feb 2016
07:29:45am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I suspect Steve and I are having a problem with the same guy. We've emailed each other about him before. I just got an email from him today stating that he was on the road and would be back in two weeks. In my reply I asked him to settle up the 6 invoices he has outstanding with me once he returns.

There is no easy way that I know of to put stamps back into the books. If there were I would be a lot stricter in getting payment within 30 days. It would mean redoing entire books which I certainly do not have time to do. Auctions it doesn't matter. I can just relist the stamps. For now I wait and hope for the best

Greg

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bobstew617
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20 Feb 2016
08:00:16am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I remember discussing this with a few of you when I was auctioneer. It is my opinion, for what it is worth now, to tell this buyer to get his act together or be banned from buying.

We don't need situations like this on SOR.

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
20 Feb 2016
08:35:53am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

As David said, if you're having a problem, then contact me. If several sellers are having a problem with the same buyer, I would rather discuss it in total with the buyer rather than have to get with the buyer to fix things for some sellers, and then have to go back to the buyer again. That is not so as to bother the buyer, but it makes me have to do double, or as fear from you two, triple work.

As I have stated elsewhere, I am currently working on revising the auction information, including the rules. I intend to try to address the payment matter for both buyers and sellers.

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cocollectibles
20 Feb 2016
09:02:39am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I appreciate the quick and thorough job the auctioneers (past, recent past, and present) do; however, I think cardstamp's observation

Quote:

"I know there is a rule that buyers should pay their invoices within 5 days of receipt unless other arrangements are made. I still believe that buyers are not aware of this and do not bother to read the rules."



merits some further discussion beyond the policing by the auctioneer. For example, on other discussion boards they have an area where rules, guidelines, etc. are pinned and required to be reviewed. What if we made the buying and selling rules more visible by pinning them on the board, instead of having people navigate through to find them? Also, maybe if someone wants to buy or sell, they must first read the appropriate set of rules (or at least show they've accessed the post about rules) before they are permitted access to these areas.

I'm hoping prevention is better than intervention.

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cardstamp
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20 Feb 2016
11:49:16am

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

It is the same buyer that Soundcrest and I are having issues with. This is not the first time. I have been trying to be nice and understanding and being patient. The problem now is that he bought out about 60% of a book that I have since retired because it got the 90% sold mark. If we suspend him now and I have to cancel his outstanding order - all of the stamps I will have to re-work into a new book now - since I can not reverse them all in the retired book. It just causes and administrative burden on the sellers when the payment is delayed so long. In the meantime - I started placing a statement in my book descriptions about the 5 day rule - not that would make a difference but at least I will have it documented in my books - and i have something to point the buyers too - it is right there when they go to preview the book. The buyer says he will be away for another two weeks and has limited computer access (which I have heard before). The strange thing is that he does pay with cash in the mail - so not sure why he could not mail payment if he is away - just sounds like a stall tactic to me ! I will let him know I expect payment when he returns or I will have to turn the matter over to the "authorities" ! Steve

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Soundcrest
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20 Feb 2016
12:32:05pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Exactly what I did Steve.

Greg

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Croman66
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20 Feb 2016
03:32:05pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I've had 2 experiences just the opposite..I won the auctions , contacted the sellers , sellers said they were sending the invoices asap , never heard from them again..I didn't send any money so I just let it go..Hypnotized

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
20 Feb 2016
07:11:57pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

The thing is this, when sellers do not file a report with the auctioneer, the auctioneer thinks everything is all right. Then the buyer who isn't paying continues to buy from other sellers, and the matter compounds itself. When the seller finally gets around to reporting the problem, the auctioneer has a larger problem to try to fix rather than getting it stopped when the problem first arises.

As can be stated in this thread by others, there are problems with both some buyers and some sellers not doing their jobs to promptly complete the transactions.

Buyers, this goes to you. If a seller is not sending you an invoice so that you can pay for your purchases, I need to know that information as well.

Peter, I think your idea has some merit, but I want to first get the rules for the auctions and approvals updated. Then I will revisit your idea, unless Tim wants to talk about it with me sooner.

An announcement will be made when the rules are complete, but the work is on-going and can be seen as it progresses using the auction and approval links, including the Auction Tutorial. I will let buyers and sellers know when a new rule has been created, or an old rule has been substantially modified to where buyers and sellers need to know about it.

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SandraUK
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21 Feb 2016
11:24:39am

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Iv only recently joined the site and put up my first approval book and was delighted to sell a number of stamps, sent the buyer a invoice and a couple of days later get a message saying the buyer had paid, no funds from this site as entered my paypal account so I send a message to the buyer and so far no reply, so I now have a approval book with a lot of items marked as sold and nothing to show for it, its far from encouraging to continue listing here

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d1stamper
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21 Feb 2016
02:25:30pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

SandraUK The message you received saying the buyer had paid was it from SOR? If it was from SOR are you sure it was not that the buyer is sending you payment by mail and did not use Paypal.

Doug

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SandraUK
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21 Feb 2016
03:20:53pm

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Doug: It was from SOR and says paid by Paypal

Sandra

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d1stamper
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21 Feb 2016
03:51:27pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

If it is not in your Paypal account, it could be that the buyer did not use Paypal or paid to the wrong Paypal account.

I would email the customer and ask if they paid using Paypal and did they use your correct email address?

Check your information on SOR and check if your email address on SOR is correct.

Doug

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philatelia
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APS 156650 25++ years!
21 Feb 2016
03:52:36pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Yes - what he said!! Definitely contact the seller - something went all snafu here for sure!

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SandraUK
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21 Feb 2016
05:41:05pm

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Doug all that you have suggested there as been done already

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Feb 2016
07:26:33pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

".... Check your information on SOR and check if your email address on SOR is correct....."

I did buy from one seller and somehow wound up sending the payment to his old address. Either he hadn't changed it or I drew the old address from previous communications.
Eventually I noticed an address that I did not recall using so it was corrected.

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copy55555
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21 Feb 2016
11:06:33pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

As a buyer, I know that after I receive an Invoice, I can mark it paid via Paypal. I don't even have to go to Paypal. As a result, the invoice is marked paid, the seller has no money and I can go on my merry way.

I understand that the seller contacted the buyer via email and has received no reply. Time for SOR to get involved and find out what happened.

I have to admit that I may have forgotten to make payment within 5 days occasionally, very rarely, hardly ever, but once I get a friendly reminder from the seller, I will jump very high and get what I owe to them ASAP.

Tad

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cocollectibles
22 Feb 2016
07:30:47am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Quote:

"As a buyer, I know that after I receive an Invoice, I can mark it paid via Paypal. I don't even have to go to Paypal. As a result, the invoice is marked paid, the seller has no money and I can go on my merry way."



I recall on bidStart that there was a way for PayPal to mark the item paid, not the buyer. Maybe that's something else to look into.

Peter
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CapeStampMan
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Mike
22 Feb 2016
03:52:26pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Quote:

"As a buyer, I know that after I receive an Invoice, I can mark it paid via Paypal. I don't even have to go to Paypal. As a result, the invoice is marked paid, the seller has no money and I can go on my merry way. "


Tad,
Excuse me, but why would you mark an invoice paid and not go make the payment right then and there? To avoid confusion I would suggest making the payment and then mark the invoice as paid. That way no one else need get involved with a very simple process and hopefully everybody is HAPPY!!!!! OR, you can tell me to go mind my own business, but was just wondering about your comment.
Mike

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philatelia
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22 Feb 2016
03:56:23pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I think what Tad was trying to say is that there is nothing stopping someone from doing that. I'm sure that he was just trying to figure out how that could have happened and provided a plausible scenario.

These darn discussion boards make it so hard to convey our meaning sometimes - you know what I mean. It is so easy to draw the wrong conclusions. Gosh I have done that so many times. When in doubt, I ask for clarification.

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youpiao
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22 Feb 2016
04:25:21pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I knew what he meant. Winking

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Feb 2016
09:17:18pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Remember;

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bobstew617
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22 Feb 2016
09:57:41pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I agree with Tad/Theresa on this one -- since SOR does not have link like BidStart/EBay with PayPal that indicates the invoice as paid automatically, a buyer CAN mark it paid via PayPal (just like he/she could with a check or forbid, CASH) and not actually pay the invoice.

With that said, if a buyer did do that, they was have some "'splaining to do right quick" Blushing Nail Biting

BOB

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michael78651
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22 Feb 2016
11:00:27pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I would hope that a seller would not automatically ship an order out until after confirming or receiving payment.

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SandraUK
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23 Feb 2016
03:26:19am

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

I should update info on my post above, although Iv been online since 2003 and written my email address out many times, when I set up my Paypal here I somehow added a letter to my email address, a number of members here vouched for the buyer even though I never said who he was, one suggested I check out my email address and I saw it was wrong so payment could have gone astray, however that is no excuse for the buyer not to answer my two messages, I have honored the sale and sent the stamps as there was a possibility the money was sent to someone out there, this buyer as now bought from me again but there is no way I will send again without payment.

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ikeyPikey
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23 Feb 2016
09:10:16am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Quote:

"... These darn discussion boards make it so hard to convey our meaning sometimes ..."



Discussion boards lead one to wonder how the written word ever caught on as a means of communication.
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ikeyPikey
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23 Feb 2016
09:18:55am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Quote:

"... however that is no excuse for the buyer not to answer my two messages ..."



My particular brand of Bronze Age Mythology comes with a requirement to judge people favorably.

Perhaps the buyer has been responding to the same incorrect version of your eMail address to which s/he attempted payment via PayPal?

If you messaged via the SOR internal system:

Perhaps the buyer is not familiar with that system, and just does not see (process) the alert at the top of the screen?

If you messaged via off-board eMail:

Caption of a cartoon at The New Yorker: "God finds all of our unanswered prayers in his spam box."

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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copy55555
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23 Feb 2016
11:40:45am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Thanks everyone for understanding what I was trying to say. It doesn't even have to be deliberate - If you mark the invoice paid (along with a bunch of others) and then delay or even forget to log onto Paypal to actually pay it then we have this scenario.

Not replying to emails (with a correct return email address), then there is a problem developing.

Mike: Sorry I wasn't so clear in my comment.

Theresa: Thanks for reading my mind!

Tad

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youpiao
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23 Feb 2016
11:50:14am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Also, as a new seller who just recently guilty this, let me say, no invoice sent by a seller could be because the seller thought the invoicing process was complete, not realizing there was one more step wherein the seller must click on, "Email invoice to buyer."

Ted

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Feb 2016
01:41:48pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

One thing that could clear a part of this situation up would be to change a single word.
Delete "PAID", insert "SENT" which would better reflect the situation. The invoice is not "PAID" until cash is received, a check clears the payer's bank or some automatic digital system has credited the seller's account. Till then the payment is in some form of postal, banking or electronic Limbo.

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bobgggg
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23 Feb 2016
07:05:17pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Time to call Brooklyn Tony ....

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He will see that you get paid !

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SandraUK
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24 Feb 2016
02:41:44am

Approvals
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

The situation as now been sorted with the buyer, payment received this morning, I agree with cdj1122 that Deleting "PAID", and inserting "SENT" which would better reflect the situation, now I had better get off here and get to work

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CapeStampMan
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Mike
24 Feb 2016
09:37:14am
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Tad,
Thanks for that comment. I am not the sharpest pencil in the box and sometime take things literally, even though I make many of the same type of comments you did. Sometimes, for me, it's just "Lights Out, Nobody Home".
Mike

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vjones48
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24 Feb 2016
06:30:34pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Here is my two cents as a buyer on SOR who plays by the rules.

1. I would think it would be a good idea if the seller could ban any buyer if he wishes.


2. Suggestion to the sellers on SOR, why not just make a PM list of your good buyers and
make sure they get a heads up when you are going to put up new approvals/auctions. I
know I would appreciate it.

Vernon vjones48

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philb
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27 Feb 2016
05:44:46pm

Auctions
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

So i ask myself, is this a club or a business...if some hypothetical buyer won say 20 dollars of my stamps and then flipped me off..i would be annoyed. But this has never happened..what does happen is a out of the U.S. buyer bids on a 30 cent item and then pays me with paypal...i think i am coming out on the short end. So if someone only bids on one inexpensive stamp and does not pay me...thats ok by me !

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
27 Feb 2016
06:52:48pm
re: Beating A Dead Horse - Buyers Who Delay Payments

Many people in another country will make a first-time purchase of a small stamp. Their intent is to see how the postal system handles the mail. Also, some make that first purchase small to check on how an unknown seller handles the transaction. In both cases, successful receipt of the items purchased often means a return buyer.

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