Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stan
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According to the back of mount packages, measure the stamps themselves and add 5mm to the height and you have the correct size.
Mike
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Stan, have fun..i collect Netherlands East Indies and the numeral and "small circle cancels" of the Netherlands as they come along. Sorry i can not help with the mount sizes, i use vario plastic stock pages.
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Hi Stan,
I also collect these numeral cancels. Just be aware that completion is probably impossible as some numbers are very rare.
The mounts I use are open topped mounts that are 30 mm high by 25 mm wide. I believe that the stamps themselves are 26 mm high by 21 mm wide.
Jan
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Hi Simothecat thanks for the information regarding the stamp mounts needed. These are the numerals I am missing from my collection;
137
139
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
155
159
220
221
222
226
230
232
233
244
246
248
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
Would be interested in purchasing the non expensive ones that I am missing.
One more question I have is that I am rather confused when it comes to some of the Netherlands Numeral Cancels especially the number 68 on stamps if you hold the stamp one way it looks like the number 89 how can you tell whether the number on the Netherland Numeral Cancel is 68 or 89?
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I would imagine that the examples you have of cancels containing the numeral 8 should give you a clue. The top loop should be smaller than the bottom, which should then enable you to orientate the cancel correctly:
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Yes, that's correct. 1 to 135 are the major cities in alphabetic order. After that it is additions whenever a postoffice was opened. See my webpage. I cannot give you any rarity values for the various numbers though.
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Hi Stan,
Your collection is clearly more advanced than mine. I still currently miss just over 100 numbers. The ones you miss are the more expensive values. I read an article once, that claimed that there are only 5 known copies of 259 (many forgeries though). This is not too surprizing though, as that postoffice opened 1 June, and then stopped using the 259 on 15 June 1893. A genuine one will cost you $$$$ if not $$$$$.
Telling the difference between a 6 and a 9 is difficult but can be done. One of my catalogues shows photographs, but I found that they didn't help much.
Jan
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If there could be a doubt about the cancel being a 6 or 9, for instance with numbers 6, 9, 69, 66, 99, an extra point was added. So it became 6. or 9. or 9.9 or 6.6 Apart from that, there is a difference in shape between the 6 and the 9. The "hook" of the 6 is more open.
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Hi Simothecat:
Jan thank you for responses to my inquiry, what part of Holland if you are indeed in Holland are you from I was born in Leiden but now live in Ottawa, Canada.
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I live in Schagen, Noord-Holland, but originally from the former island Wieringen, just a few kms more to the north (near the "Afsluitdijk").
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I now live in Vancouver, but was born in the Hague.
The other Jan.
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Yes, Laren is one of the richest places in the country. Lot of old money over there but also many nouveaux riches... In one word: posh.
To compare, the mean price of houses over there is 3 times of what it is where I live. And that's an average. Most houses cost even more...
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Hello everyone thank you very much for all the responses I have received. I have one more question and that is I read somewhere that the Dutch post card (Brief Kart) could not have numeral cancellations on it but the one I have has 3 postage dues on it with the numeral 5.
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Hi Stan,
I just checked "de poststempels van nederland 1676 - 1915" by O.M. Vellinga.
He states that the number cancel was not authorized for use to cancel postcards with a pre-printed stamp (a postal card). He then gives a list of 22 offices where this was done (at some time or other) against regulations.
The number cancel was to be used on a post card with a stamp attached, and also on postage due stamps (including on postcards).
Jan
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Here is a list of known number cancels on postcards (which is from a different source and contains 25 different numbers instead of 22). Placed "by mistake or for other reasons".
No.4. Amersfoort.
No 5. Amsterdam.
No 16. Breda.
No 20. Culenborg.
No 34. Elburg.
No 44. ’s-Gravenhage.
No 45. Groningen.
No 46. Haarlem.
No 51. Heerenveen.
No 57. ’s-Hertogenbosch.
No 62. Hoorn.
No 67. Leeuwarden.
No 69. De Lemmer.
No.82. Nijmegen.
No 87. Oudenbosch.
No 91. Rotterdam.
No 99. Sneek.
No 112. Velp.
No 118. Wageningen.
No 120. Weesp.
No 130. Zevenaar.
No 136. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 1.
No 137. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 4.
No 138. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 2.
No 153. Oss.
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And for completeness, here is a scan showing the difference between the 6 and the 9:
(Images from "Catalogus der Puntstempels van Nederland" by H. Koopman (1968 edition)). The 6 seems to have more white space between the curl and the oval.
Jan
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Hi Simothecat thank you once again for your response. I am now retired and living on a fixed income but would like to know how much the book you have on Netherland Numeral Cancels is in English and what is the cost?
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Stan,
My catalogues are long out of print. The most recent catalogue is part of "Specialiteiten Catalogus, 2006-2011", but I do not have one of these, so I can't tell you about it. Some booksellers may still have copies of it.
Jan
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Phil,
But the thtill is in the hunt. Who knows, maybe one of us will strike it lucky on of these days.
Jan
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This is a great exercise for me...here are the ones i can positively ID. i will put an asterisk by the ones i have a duplicate of. #2,5,16,22,30,33,42,57* 67,68,75,76,84,91,94,99* 106* 107,113,115,133 and 166. There are some i dare not try to id for reasons you guys know about...poor printing of the numerals,heavy cancel which make.. ones and fours questionable, or the number too close to the edge where possibly a number is missing. I have hundreds of the Netherlands Indies King and young Queen types but not ONE numeral cancel among them.
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Stan, I used to collect these years ago. I still have some of the ones you need, the best one being Middelharnis, 257. If interested, please let me know and I will send you a list of the ones I can help you with.
Peter
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Hi petert4522 I would be interested to see which of the Netherlands Numeral Cancels you have and at what price you are selling them at?
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Stan, I have four numbers that are on your list. I have King William 5 cent with #220, 232 and 248. I have number 257 on the Queen 5 cent.
I don't have # 259, sorry!
If you send me your address via my E-mail I will mail them to you. From one retiree to another!
Peter
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Hi peter4522 thank you very much this is my email address:
sbeerenfeng@rogers.com
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Hello could any of the collectors give me the name of dealers that handle or sell Netherlands numeral cancels?
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Stan, try this: www.postzegelwinkel-amsterdam.nl .
He claims to have the largest inventory of puntstempels in the world!
In the Netherlads a numeral cancel is called a 'puntstempel' , literally translated a dotcancel! After all, the dots are what is different from a regular cancel!
Peter
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I have never heard of this shop. Let's hope the quality of his stamps is better than his spelling, because that's atrocious.
I will see if I can find some alternatives.
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Thank you, Jansimon. That is what I was hoping for. Someone in the Netherlands is better than here in the Southeast! BY the way, who's spelling is bad? What does hooe mean?
Just kidding,
Peter
PS By the way, the stamp store in Amsterdam is called Postzegelhandel Parnassus. Don't know why I left that out, must have had a senior moment!
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Stan,
If you want a dealer in North America, you might try NetherlandsStamps.com. He has a substantial stock of these cancels. I have dealt with him in the past.
Also eBay will have them.
Jan
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Hehe... I guess the Parnassus website was also made on a smartphone :-)
Corrected the typo.
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I have one more question in regards to the Netherlands Numeral Cancels and that is in regards to 21 Delftshaven and 21 Emmen and 25 Dirksland and 25 'sGraveland all the numbers look alike so how do you know you have a 21 Delftshaven or 21 Emmen -- 25 Dirksland or 25'sGraveland, how can you tell the difference?
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If you have a complete cover, there should be a date cancel on the envelope. If you only have the stamp, you check when the stamp was introduced. 21 - Delfshaven was used until May 1st 1886 and 25 - Dirksland was used until December 16th 1890. So if you have a 21 or 25 cancel on a Princess Wilhelmina stamp, you can be sure it is Emmen or 's-Graveland. In all other cases, it is more difficult.
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Hi petert4522:
Should have been a little more patient the stamps you sent me arrived today February 17, 2016, and after reading your kind note let me say it was nice meeting you too and hope that your days go well and have a good day and I wish you all the best.
May I be so bold and ask if you could help me out with one more Netherlands Numeral Cancel I have been looking for for a long time, and have had no luck in finding one and that is numeral 215 Waspik.
Stanley Beerenfenger
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Thank you jansimon for the information it is greatly appreciated. Have a good day.
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I do not know much about the Netherland Langstempel, as there does not seem to be much information regarding these on the internet in English. Why were the Lansgtempel used in conjunction with the small round cancels, what is the meaning behind the Langstemper and why were they used. You would think that small round cancels denoting cities in Holland would have been enough.
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I changed the subject on my posts by mistake.
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How did this thread suddenly become about langstempels? (Snap - missed your correct while typing.)
A langstempel is one with the name in a straight line. The short answer on their use, is that they were only used by offices that were too small to justify having their own small round cancel. Such offices were not full postoffices. Their actual use is quite involved.
There is a detailed article on them in english in Netherlands Philately, volume 3, number 1, beginning on page 11. This can be accessed at http://asnp1975.com/
This is the journal of the American Society for Netherlands Philately (shameless plug).
Jan
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hi simothecat in response to your info on Langstempels you said there was an article in English in the journal of the American Society for Netherlands Philately I went on their website but would need the year of the volume etc.?
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so simothecat does that mean that the name of Langestempel is where the mail was sent from?
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Hi jansimon regarding your information on the following:
If you have a complete cover, there should be a date cancel on the envelope. If you only have the stamp, you check when the stamp was introduced. 21 - Delfshaven was used until May 1st 1886 and 25 - Dirksland was used until December 16th 1890. So if you have a 21 or 25 cancel on a Princess Wilhelmina stamp, you can be sure it is Emmen or 's-Graveland. In all other cases, it is more difficult.
What happens when all the stamps are the King Willem III stamps? What you say if they are on Princess Wilhemina stamps they are easy to tell which is which town.
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Hi Stan,
First of all, volume 3 is 1977/1978.
Secondly, the langstempel was supposed to be used by the sending office, but errors were made.
Jan
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I have received the following information regarding Numeral 21 and Numeral 25 but need someone to give me more information perhaps in the form of photos or drawing from a catalogue of Netherlands Numeral Cancels:
there are small differences between the cancels, but they are quite difficult to see.
no. 21
No. 21 was first issued to 'Delfshaven' and was revoked on the 1st of May 1886
On April 1st 1892 the new no. 21 was given to 'Emmen'
The 2 cancels can be distinguished from the bottom of the 2 (not sure what the difference is however)
All Wilhelmina loose hair with no. 21 are always 'Emmen'
no. 25
No. 25 was first issued to 'Dirksland' (1 april 1869 till 16 december 1890, when the office Dirksland was closed)
The new cancel 25 was given to 's-Graveland' on april 1st 1892 and has thinner figues
To make it a little bit more difficult: There are 2 cancels 25 Dirksland: the 1st 1869-1875, the 2nd 1875-1890 where the figures are also thinner then on the 1st.....
All Wilhelmina loose hair with no. 25 are always 's-Graveland'
in regards I would like to get a drawing or photo of what differences are in the figure 2 and in the numeral I would need a photo showing the differences of thinner figures.
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Hi simothecat regarding Netherland Stamps here in Canada, I received a email from him telling him he is closing up shop.
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I sometimes feel a bit uneasy about high priced stamps and I am wondering if someone could tell me whether this Netherland Numeral cancel is real - eBay item number:361491566979 puntstempel 159 KAMP BIJ MILLIGEN op nvph 19 K. I have never read about forgeries in the Numeral Cancels but I suppose there are some.
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Hi Stan,
Forgeries of numeral cancels do exist. Simple examples are those which change a 1 into a 4 or to add a couple of digits to a 5 using a pencil. (Not in this case.)
I don't know enough to determine if the ebay example is genuine or not. It would help to do some research, though. The 159 cancel was issued to Kamp bij Millingen on 20 August 1872. According to my NVPH catalogue, NVPH 19 K was issued between 1884 and 1887. Was the camp still open then? I don't know, but it certainly was closed by 1892 when the number 159 was re-issued to Kamp bij Rijen.
Jan
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Thank you for your help simothecat, it was greatly appreciated.
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I am having trouble translating the following, I put it through the google translation but in English it does not make any sense, what I need translated is the following:
"Lijst van post kantoren met daar achter de datum waar op zij puntstempel uitgereikt" my on line dutch to English translated it to "List of post offices with there behind the date where on the point stamp issued" which doe not make any sense. Any fellow Dutchman or woman out there that can help me?
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simothecat could you consult your dutch catalogue and tell me when NVPH 19D (12:12 1/2) was issued?
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List of post offices with the date the 'puntstempel' was issued. That is what the Dutch sentence reads. Of course, 'puntstempel' is translated as numeral cancel which it really should translate to 'point cancel'!
My catalog does not give a precise date for 19D other than 1872-1875.
Peter
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According to the handbook the Numeral cancel for Gennep is 196 then can someone tell me why the following on Ebay - Ebay item Number 381550502058 has it as numeral 1196?
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In my last couple enquiries I changed the subject matter, please accept my apologies for the confusion.
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I had a look at that lot.
The first "1" is a different font and size. I think that it must be part of some other marking, but what I don't know.
I'm sure you noticed the damage on the stamp.
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Hello everyone, I trust you are all having a good day.
I am in need of a translation from Dutch to English - there are a number of times when reading about the Netherland and Dutch Indies Numeral cancellations that they use the phrase emission eg. Emission Wilhelmina what does Emission mean when you put it through the dutch to English translation Emission means Emission? does it actual mean in English let me use it in an example Wilhelmina Issue?
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The Dutch word 'emissie' should be translated as 'issue', not 'emission'.
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Hi jansimon it was an actual stamp site that I was on that had stamp pages and at the end they had one page which listed the colors of Dutch East Indies cancels and had spaces with a heading that said EMISSION WILHELMINA 1892 was Emission perhaps a misspelling for what you said it might be? because no matter what translation service I use no one has a translation for Emission should I then use Dutch word 'emissie' instead of Emission??
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was it a dutch site?
Perhaps it was translated automatically. There are different ways of translating the word. It can have a meaning in physics, like the emission of particles etc. but it can also be used when talking about printed matter and in that case it should be seen as a synonym for "uitgave" which translates as issue.
One thing I am certain about is that there is no Dutch word "emission".
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Just an update jansimon when I put through for a translation on the internet I used what you said should be used which was emissie and it translated it to emission not issue? I am really confused now.
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jansimon the site was http://puntstempels.nl/indexenglish.htm then go to table of contents, then go to articles & downloads and click on Albumsheet nr.5 A4 format
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jansimon I was looking on a list of railroad post offices after looking at your list for the various numbers and I found for the following:
136 Amsterdam - Emmerik
137 Arnhem-Bentheim
137 Arnhem-Oldenzaal
138 Amsterdam - Antwerpen
138 Moerdijk-Eindhoven
138 Rotterdam-Vlissingen
Which is most commonly used for Netherlands Numeral Cancel collections or do I list all of the above railroad post offices?
Or do I list in my collection what you have on your list:
136 Railroad postoffice (Amsterdam-Emmen)
137 Railroad postoffice (Arnhem-Oldenzaal)
138 Railroad postoffice (Moerdijk-Antwerpen)
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This is further to my query regarding the Numeral Cancels for the Railroad post offices, please could someone answer because I am trying to get my collection together and this page is important.
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Hi Stan,
I don't think there is a simple answer to your question. Take number 138 for example. There were (at least) 9 hammers issued to various rail routes with this number:
Moerdijk-Eindhoven (4 hammers, 24 March 1869)
Rotterdam-Antwerpen (2 hammers, 21 July 1876)
Rotterdam-Venlo (1 hammer, 5 January 1881)
Rotterdam-Vlissingen (1 hammer, 4 May 1887)
Amsterdam-Antwerpen (1 hammer, 29 January 1890)
Jan
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Stan,
I think that there are so many routes with the same number, as these routes changed over time. For example, it was not possible to go by train from Rotterdam to Antwerpen until the train bridge over the river Maas was opened 1 January 1872. Before that, you had to go by ship to Moerdijk, and then by train.
I really don't know enough about this, but it seems to me that the numbers may more properly refer to the railway company.
Jan
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Hello everyone, I have another question regarding the Netherland Numeral Cancels and that is which of the towns do not exist anymore, I suppose not all the towns listed today are still in existence.
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As far as I know, there are not many abandoned places in the Netherlands. The few that have disappeared, did so in the 17th century or earlier because of floods and other natural disasters. There are a few places from the list of post offices with numeral cancels that had their names spelled slightly different:
Dragten became Drachten
De Lemmer became Lemmer
Hardingsveld became Hardinxveld
Koevorden became Coevorden
Bommel became Zaltbommel
Rozendaal became Roosendaal
Apart from those minor changes, none of the cities and towns from the list disappeared. The military camps that had their own cancels may have closed though (147, 155 and 159)
Jan-Simon
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In the 19th and 20th century a number of smaller villages and hamlets were bulldozered to give space to the expanding harbours of Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Delfzijl. Many hundreds of inhabitants had to move as a result, but none of these villages had a post office.
During World War 2 Petten was torn down by the Germans because it was blocking the cannons of the Atlantik wall. After the war, the town was rebuilt, but on a different location.
Near Arnhem a small town called Doorwerth was completely destroyed during the fighting over there in 1944. Only the old castle in the town was rebuilt.
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Thank you Jansimon for your help.
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Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone can tell me whether there are any dealers who deal with people on line that sell Netherland Numeral cancels, in Holland or anywhere else.
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I regularly see selections or small collections of numeral cancels being offered on Dutch sites (look for "puntstempels") but there are also dealers who offer them. See for instance here:
http://bredasepostzegelhandel.nl/stempels/nederland/punt/
or
http://www.brabantsepostzegelveiling.nl/online-auction/category/punt-stempels/
or
http://www.postzegelwinkel-amsterdam.nl/puntstempels/
(I do not know if you can read Dutch, as all of these sites are in one language = Dutch only)
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09:17:31am
Hi I have a collection of the Netherland Numeral cancellations but would like to mount them in pre cut stamp mounts could anyone tell me in mm what size of pre cut stamp mounts I need for the King William stamps and the young Wilhelmina stamps etc.
Stan
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
According to the back of mount packages, measure the stamps themselves and add 5mm to the height and you have the correct size.
Mike
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Auctions
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan, have fun..i collect Netherlands East Indies and the numeral and "small circle cancels" of the Netherlands as they come along. Sorry i can not help with the mount sizes, i use vario plastic stock pages.
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11:02:03am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
I also collect these numeral cancels. Just be aware that completion is probably impossible as some numbers are very rare.
The mounts I use are open topped mounts that are 30 mm high by 25 mm wide. I believe that the stamps themselves are 26 mm high by 21 mm wide.
Jan
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01:45:01pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Simothecat thanks for the information regarding the stamp mounts needed. These are the numerals I am missing from my collection;
137
139
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
155
159
220
221
222
226
230
232
233
244
246
248
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
Would be interested in purchasing the non expensive ones that I am missing.
One more question I have is that I am rather confused when it comes to some of the Netherlands Numeral Cancels especially the number 68 on stamps if you hold the stamp one way it looks like the number 89 how can you tell whether the number on the Netherland Numeral Cancel is 68 or 89?
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I would imagine that the examples you have of cancels containing the numeral 8 should give you a clue. The top loop should be smaller than the bottom, which should then enable you to orientate the cancel correctly:
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Yes, that's correct. 1 to 135 are the major cities in alphabetic order. After that it is additions whenever a postoffice was opened. See my webpage. I cannot give you any rarity values for the various numbers though.
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07:32:41pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
Your collection is clearly more advanced than mine. I still currently miss just over 100 numbers. The ones you miss are the more expensive values. I read an article once, that claimed that there are only 5 known copies of 259 (many forgeries though). This is not too surprizing though, as that postoffice opened 1 June, and then stopped using the 259 on 15 June 1893. A genuine one will cost you $$$$ if not $$$$$.
Telling the difference between a 6 and a 9 is difficult but can be done. One of my catalogues shows photographs, but I found that they didn't help much.
Jan
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
If there could be a doubt about the cancel being a 6 or 9, for instance with numbers 6, 9, 69, 66, 99, an extra point was added. So it became 6. or 9. or 9.9 or 6.6 Apart from that, there is a difference in shape between the 6 and the 9. The "hook" of the 6 is more open.
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08:02:42am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Simothecat:
Jan thank you for responses to my inquiry, what part of Holland if you are indeed in Holland are you from I was born in Leiden but now live in Ottawa, Canada.
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I live in Schagen, Noord-Holland, but originally from the former island Wieringen, just a few kms more to the north (near the "Afsluitdijk").
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01:08:25pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I now live in Vancouver, but was born in the Hague.
The other Jan.
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Yes, Laren is one of the richest places in the country. Lot of old money over there but also many nouveaux riches... In one word: posh.
To compare, the mean price of houses over there is 3 times of what it is where I live. And that's an average. Most houses cost even more...
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03:40:38pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hello everyone thank you very much for all the responses I have received. I have one more question and that is I read somewhere that the Dutch post card (Brief Kart) could not have numeral cancellations on it but the one I have has 3 postage dues on it with the numeral 5.
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07:53:22pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
I just checked "de poststempels van nederland 1676 - 1915" by O.M. Vellinga.
He states that the number cancel was not authorized for use to cancel postcards with a pre-printed stamp (a postal card). He then gives a list of 22 offices where this was done (at some time or other) against regulations.
The number cancel was to be used on a post card with a stamp attached, and also on postage due stamps (including on postcards).
Jan
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Here is a list of known number cancels on postcards (which is from a different source and contains 25 different numbers instead of 22). Placed "by mistake or for other reasons".
No.4. Amersfoort.
No 5. Amsterdam.
No 16. Breda.
No 20. Culenborg.
No 34. Elburg.
No 44. ’s-Gravenhage.
No 45. Groningen.
No 46. Haarlem.
No 51. Heerenveen.
No 57. ’s-Hertogenbosch.
No 62. Hoorn.
No 67. Leeuwarden.
No 69. De Lemmer.
No.82. Nijmegen.
No 87. Oudenbosch.
No 91. Rotterdam.
No 99. Sneek.
No 112. Velp.
No 118. Wageningen.
No 120. Weesp.
No 130. Zevenaar.
No 136. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 1.
No 137. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 4.
No 138. Spoorwegpostkantoor no. 2.
No 153. Oss.
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11:33:56pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
And for completeness, here is a scan showing the difference between the 6 and the 9:
(Images from "Catalogus der Puntstempels van Nederland" by H. Koopman (1968 edition)). The 6 seems to have more white space between the curl and the oval.
Jan
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06:37:28am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Simothecat thank you once again for your response. I am now retired and living on a fixed income but would like to know how much the book you have on Netherland Numeral Cancels is in English and what is the cost?
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03:00:35pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan,
My catalogues are long out of print. The most recent catalogue is part of "Specialiteiten Catalogus, 2006-2011", but I do not have one of these, so I can't tell you about it. Some booksellers may still have copies of it.
Jan
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03:01:59pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Phil,
But the thtill is in the hunt. Who knows, maybe one of us will strike it lucky on of these days.
Jan
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
This is a great exercise for me...here are the ones i can positively ID. i will put an asterisk by the ones i have a duplicate of. #2,5,16,22,30,33,42,57* 67,68,75,76,84,91,94,99* 106* 107,113,115,133 and 166. There are some i dare not try to id for reasons you guys know about...poor printing of the numerals,heavy cancel which make.. ones and fours questionable, or the number too close to the edge where possibly a number is missing. I have hundreds of the Netherlands Indies King and young Queen types but not ONE numeral cancel among them.
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04:47:02pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan, I used to collect these years ago. I still have some of the ones you need, the best one being Middelharnis, 257. If interested, please let me know and I will send you a list of the ones I can help you with.
Peter
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08:34:33am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi petert4522 I would be interested to see which of the Netherlands Numeral Cancels you have and at what price you are selling them at?
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10:35:36am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan, I have four numbers that are on your list. I have King William 5 cent with #220, 232 and 248. I have number 257 on the Queen 5 cent.
I don't have # 259, sorry!
If you send me your address via my E-mail I will mail them to you. From one retiree to another!
Peter
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10:45:12am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi peter4522 thank you very much this is my email address:
sbeerenfeng@rogers.com
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08:03:40am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hello could any of the collectors give me the name of dealers that handle or sell Netherlands numeral cancels?
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01:39:57pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan, try this: www.postzegelwinkel-amsterdam.nl .
He claims to have the largest inventory of puntstempels in the world!
In the Netherlads a numeral cancel is called a 'puntstempel' , literally translated a dotcancel! After all, the dots are what is different from a regular cancel!
Peter
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I have never heard of this shop. Let's hope the quality of his stamps is better than his spelling, because that's atrocious.
I will see if I can find some alternatives.
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02:51:16pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Thank you, Jansimon. That is what I was hoping for. Someone in the Netherlands is better than here in the Southeast! BY the way, who's spelling is bad? What does hooe mean?
Just kidding,
Peter
PS By the way, the stamp store in Amsterdam is called Postzegelhandel Parnassus. Don't know why I left that out, must have had a senior moment!
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03:09:00pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan,
If you want a dealer in North America, you might try NetherlandsStamps.com. He has a substantial stock of these cancels. I have dealt with him in the past.
Also eBay will have them.
Jan
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hehe... I guess the Parnassus website was also made on a smartphone :-)
Corrected the typo.
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08:22:44am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I have one more question in regards to the Netherlands Numeral Cancels and that is in regards to 21 Delftshaven and 21 Emmen and 25 Dirksland and 25 'sGraveland all the numbers look alike so how do you know you have a 21 Delftshaven or 21 Emmen -- 25 Dirksland or 25'sGraveland, how can you tell the difference?
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
If you have a complete cover, there should be a date cancel on the envelope. If you only have the stamp, you check when the stamp was introduced. 21 - Delfshaven was used until May 1st 1886 and 25 - Dirksland was used until December 16th 1890. So if you have a 21 or 25 cancel on a Princess Wilhelmina stamp, you can be sure it is Emmen or 's-Graveland. In all other cases, it is more difficult.
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12:01:08pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi petert4522:
Should have been a little more patient the stamps you sent me arrived today February 17, 2016, and after reading your kind note let me say it was nice meeting you too and hope that your days go well and have a good day and I wish you all the best.
May I be so bold and ask if you could help me out with one more Netherlands Numeral Cancel I have been looking for for a long time, and have had no luck in finding one and that is numeral 215 Waspik.
Stanley Beerenfenger
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12:05:16pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Thank you jansimon for the information it is greatly appreciated. Have a good day.
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01:30:53pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I do not know much about the Netherland Langstempel, as there does not seem to be much information regarding these on the internet in English. Why were the Lansgtempel used in conjunction with the small round cancels, what is the meaning behind the Langstemper and why were they used. You would think that small round cancels denoting cities in Holland would have been enough.
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01:42:09pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I changed the subject on my posts by mistake.
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01:54:49pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
How did this thread suddenly become about langstempels? (Snap - missed your correct while typing.)
A langstempel is one with the name in a straight line. The short answer on their use, is that they were only used by offices that were too small to justify having their own small round cancel. Such offices were not full postoffices. Their actual use is quite involved.
There is a detailed article on them in english in Netherlands Philately, volume 3, number 1, beginning on page 11. This can be accessed at http://asnp1975.com/
This is the journal of the American Society for Netherlands Philately (shameless plug).
Jan
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02:10:14pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
hi simothecat in response to your info on Langstempels you said there was an article in English in the journal of the American Society for Netherlands Philately I went on their website but would need the year of the volume etc.?
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02:34:01pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
so simothecat does that mean that the name of Langestempel is where the mail was sent from?
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03:08:18pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi jansimon regarding your information on the following:
If you have a complete cover, there should be a date cancel on the envelope. If you only have the stamp, you check when the stamp was introduced. 21 - Delfshaven was used until May 1st 1886 and 25 - Dirksland was used until December 16th 1890. So if you have a 21 or 25 cancel on a Princess Wilhelmina stamp, you can be sure it is Emmen or 's-Graveland. In all other cases, it is more difficult.
What happens when all the stamps are the King Willem III stamps? What you say if they are on Princess Wilhemina stamps they are easy to tell which is which town.
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07:29:23pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
First of all, volume 3 is 1977/1978.
Secondly, the langstempel was supposed to be used by the sending office, but errors were made.
Jan
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08:13:30am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I have received the following information regarding Numeral 21 and Numeral 25 but need someone to give me more information perhaps in the form of photos or drawing from a catalogue of Netherlands Numeral Cancels:
there are small differences between the cancels, but they are quite difficult to see.
no. 21
No. 21 was first issued to 'Delfshaven' and was revoked on the 1st of May 1886
On April 1st 1892 the new no. 21 was given to 'Emmen'
The 2 cancels can be distinguished from the bottom of the 2 (not sure what the difference is however)
All Wilhelmina loose hair with no. 21 are always 'Emmen'
no. 25
No. 25 was first issued to 'Dirksland' (1 april 1869 till 16 december 1890, when the office Dirksland was closed)
The new cancel 25 was given to 's-Graveland' on april 1st 1892 and has thinner figues
To make it a little bit more difficult: There are 2 cancels 25 Dirksland: the 1st 1869-1875, the 2nd 1875-1890 where the figures are also thinner then on the 1st.....
All Wilhelmina loose hair with no. 25 are always 's-Graveland'
in regards I would like to get a drawing or photo of what differences are in the figure 2 and in the numeral I would need a photo showing the differences of thinner figures.
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03:51:49pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi simothecat regarding Netherland Stamps here in Canada, I received a email from him telling him he is closing up shop.
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04:55:24am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I sometimes feel a bit uneasy about high priced stamps and I am wondering if someone could tell me whether this Netherland Numeral cancel is real - eBay item number:361491566979 puntstempel 159 KAMP BIJ MILLIGEN op nvph 19 K. I have never read about forgeries in the Numeral Cancels but I suppose there are some.
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11:48:35am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
Forgeries of numeral cancels do exist. Simple examples are those which change a 1 into a 4 or to add a couple of digits to a 5 using a pencil. (Not in this case.)
I don't know enough to determine if the ebay example is genuine or not. It would help to do some research, though. The 159 cancel was issued to Kamp bij Millingen on 20 August 1872. According to my NVPH catalogue, NVPH 19 K was issued between 1884 and 1887. Was the camp still open then? I don't know, but it certainly was closed by 1892 when the number 159 was re-issued to Kamp bij Rijen.
Jan
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12:56:19pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Thank you for your help simothecat, it was greatly appreciated.
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10:35:19am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I am having trouble translating the following, I put it through the google translation but in English it does not make any sense, what I need translated is the following:
"Lijst van post kantoren met daar achter de datum waar op zij puntstempel uitgereikt" my on line dutch to English translated it to "List of post offices with there behind the date where on the point stamp issued" which doe not make any sense. Any fellow Dutchman or woman out there that can help me?
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10:40:35am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
simothecat could you consult your dutch catalogue and tell me when NVPH 19D (12:12 1/2) was issued?
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10:52:43am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
List of post offices with the date the 'puntstempel' was issued. That is what the Dutch sentence reads. Of course, 'puntstempel' is translated as numeral cancel which it really should translate to 'point cancel'!
My catalog does not give a precise date for 19D other than 1872-1875.
Peter
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11:05:18am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
According to the handbook the Numeral cancel for Gennep is 196 then can someone tell me why the following on Ebay - Ebay item Number 381550502058 has it as numeral 1196?
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11:06:33am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
In my last couple enquiries I changed the subject matter, please accept my apologies for the confusion.
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10:26:32am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I had a look at that lot.
The first "1" is a different font and size. I think that it must be part of some other marking, but what I don't know.
I'm sure you noticed the damage on the stamp.
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03:52:01pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hello everyone, I trust you are all having a good day.
I am in need of a translation from Dutch to English - there are a number of times when reading about the Netherland and Dutch Indies Numeral cancellations that they use the phrase emission eg. Emission Wilhelmina what does Emission mean when you put it through the dutch to English translation Emission means Emission? does it actual mean in English let me use it in an example Wilhelmina Issue?
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
The Dutch word 'emissie' should be translated as 'issue', not 'emission'.
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04:30:49pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi jansimon it was an actual stamp site that I was on that had stamp pages and at the end they had one page which listed the colors of Dutch East Indies cancels and had spaces with a heading that said EMISSION WILHELMINA 1892 was Emission perhaps a misspelling for what you said it might be? because no matter what translation service I use no one has a translation for Emission should I then use Dutch word 'emissie' instead of Emission??
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
was it a dutch site?
Perhaps it was translated automatically. There are different ways of translating the word. It can have a meaning in physics, like the emission of particles etc. but it can also be used when talking about printed matter and in that case it should be seen as a synonym for "uitgave" which translates as issue.
One thing I am certain about is that there is no Dutch word "emission".
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04:43:22pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Just an update jansimon when I put through for a translation on the internet I used what you said should be used which was emissie and it translated it to emission not issue? I am really confused now.
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04:48:12pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
jansimon the site was http://puntstempels.nl/indexenglish.htm then go to table of contents, then go to articles & downloads and click on Albumsheet nr.5 A4 format
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02:19:42pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
jansimon I was looking on a list of railroad post offices after looking at your list for the various numbers and I found for the following:
136 Amsterdam - Emmerik
137 Arnhem-Bentheim
137 Arnhem-Oldenzaal
138 Amsterdam - Antwerpen
138 Moerdijk-Eindhoven
138 Rotterdam-Vlissingen
Which is most commonly used for Netherlands Numeral Cancel collections or do I list all of the above railroad post offices?
Or do I list in my collection what you have on your list:
136 Railroad postoffice (Amsterdam-Emmen)
137 Railroad postoffice (Arnhem-Oldenzaal)
138 Railroad postoffice (Moerdijk-Antwerpen)
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04:09:37pm
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
This is further to my query regarding the Numeral Cancels for the Railroad post offices, please could someone answer because I am trying to get my collection together and this page is important.
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02:00:45am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hi Stan,
I don't think there is a simple answer to your question. Take number 138 for example. There were (at least) 9 hammers issued to various rail routes with this number:
Moerdijk-Eindhoven (4 hammers, 24 March 1869)
Rotterdam-Antwerpen (2 hammers, 21 July 1876)
Rotterdam-Venlo (1 hammer, 5 January 1881)
Rotterdam-Vlissingen (1 hammer, 4 May 1887)
Amsterdam-Antwerpen (1 hammer, 29 January 1890)
Jan
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02:21:49am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Stan,
I think that there are so many routes with the same number, as these routes changed over time. For example, it was not possible to go by train from Rotterdam to Antwerpen until the train bridge over the river Maas was opened 1 January 1872. Before that, you had to go by ship to Moerdijk, and then by train.
I really don't know enough about this, but it seems to me that the numbers may more properly refer to the railway company.
Jan
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09:08:19am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hello everyone, I have another question regarding the Netherland Numeral Cancels and that is which of the towns do not exist anymore, I suppose not all the towns listed today are still in existence.
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
As far as I know, there are not many abandoned places in the Netherlands. The few that have disappeared, did so in the 17th century or earlier because of floods and other natural disasters. There are a few places from the list of post offices with numeral cancels that had their names spelled slightly different:
Dragten became Drachten
De Lemmer became Lemmer
Hardingsveld became Hardinxveld
Koevorden became Coevorden
Bommel became Zaltbommel
Rozendaal became Roosendaal
Apart from those minor changes, none of the cities and towns from the list disappeared. The military camps that had their own cancels may have closed though (147, 155 and 159)
Jan-Simon
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
In the 19th and 20th century a number of smaller villages and hamlets were bulldozered to give space to the expanding harbours of Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Delfzijl. Many hundreds of inhabitants had to move as a result, but none of these villages had a post office.
During World War 2 Petten was torn down by the Germans because it was blocking the cannons of the Atlantik wall. After the war, the town was rebuilt, but on a different location.
Near Arnhem a small town called Doorwerth was completely destroyed during the fighting over there in 1944. Only the old castle in the town was rebuilt.
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11:26:25am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Thank you Jansimon for your help.
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09:47:54am
re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone can tell me whether there are any dealers who deal with people on line that sell Netherland Numeral cancels, in Holland or anywhere else.
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re: Netherland Numeral Cancellations
I regularly see selections or small collections of numeral cancels being offered on Dutch sites (look for "puntstempels") but there are also dealers who offer them. See for instance here:
http://bredasepostzegelhandel.nl/stempels/nederland/punt/
or
http://www.brabantsepostzegelveiling.nl/online-auction/category/punt-stempels/
or
http://www.postzegelwinkel-amsterdam.nl/puntstempels/
(I do not know if you can read Dutch, as all of these sites are in one language = Dutch only)
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