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What we collect!
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Europe/Other : 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

 

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cgrim3

03 Apr 2015
02:05:53am
Hi,

I collect stamps from Bulgaria and am aware that there was a French Consular Post Office in Varna operating from 1857 to 1876. The office initially used the dots in a diamond pattern with the small font number (4018) and around 1862 switched to a diamond pattern with a larger font number (5013). I've recently encountered a larger font 4018 that is reportedly from Bouche du Rhone. My questions are:
1. Is there a good English language source for general information about French cancellations of the period?
2. Was the movement from small to large numerals a general revision across all French post offices?
3. Did most post offices retain the same number before and after the conversion?
4. What post office, if any, had 5103 with small numerals?
5. Lastly, is there a good general reference on the functioning of consular post offices in the Ottoman empire at this time. Who could use the services? Rates? Coordination with Ottoman postal services? Routings to the home countries? etc.

Thanks in advance,
Chuck

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

03 Apr 2015
04:12:47am

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re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Hi Chuck,

here are some answers.
1. Not as far as I know. There are a few good French sites though that I used to find answers to your questions.
2. Yes. There were multiple reasons for the move. First of all, the small numerals were often hard to read, especially if the cancel was smudged or not applied correctly. Apart from that, in the 10 years between the introduction in 1853 and the change in 1862, numerous new post offices had been opened and the intended alphabetic order of the numeral cancels had been lost.
(3) Therefore everything was reshuffled.
In the old system ("Losanges petits chiffres" or PC for short) 1-3703 was France Métropole (mainland France) in alphabetic order.
3704-3739 was Algérie in alphabetic order.
3740-4494 was new offices in Métropole, Algérie and Levant in order of creation.

The new system of 1862 ("Losanges gros chiffres" / GC) was reorganized as follows:
1-4999 became France Métropole in alphabetic order
5000-5172: Algérie et Levant (colonies) in alphabetic order
6000-6449: new postoffices created after the introduction of the new system.

4. 4494 was the last numeral created with small numerals. In other words, 5103 small numerals does not exist.

5. Sorry, can't help you with that.

Jan-Simon



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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

03 Apr 2015
04:16:12am

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re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

By the way, 4018 GC is from the town of Trets, which is in the Bouches-Du-Rhone department.

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cgrim3

03 Apr 2015
03:29:52pm
re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Thanks so much. This is very helpful and certainly a great response to my first ever thread initiation.

Is there an accessible list of numbers and the post offices that match?

And lastly since you aren't aware of anything in English, can you suggest a source in French? Perhaps the Y&T France catalog? Or would I need something more specialized?

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

03 Apr 2015
05:13:03pm

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re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

www.marcophilie.org

The site has a lot of information but unfortunately not a very good structure. Difficult to navigate.

(Modified by Moderator on 2015-04-03 23:09:18)

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cgrim3

04 Apr 2015
02:30:39pm
re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Thanks again. I've started perusing the marcophilie site. Very helpful indeed.

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lerivage

29 Dec 2015
02:49:21pm
re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Hello

I am quite late, but may be this will help you. I use Wikipedia, in French, to get those numbers.

For petits chiffres

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_bureaux_de_poste_fran%C3%A7ais_class%C3%A9s_par_oblit%C3%A9ration_Petits_Chiffres

and for gros chiffres:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_bureaux_de_poste_fran%C3%A7ais_class%C3%A9s_par_oblit%C3%A9ration_Gros_Chiffres


(Modified by Moderator on 2015-12-29 15:55:08)

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Author/Postings
cgrim3

03 Apr 2015
02:05:53am

Hi,

I collect stamps from Bulgaria and am aware that there was a French Consular Post Office in Varna operating from 1857 to 1876. The office initially used the dots in a diamond pattern with the small font number (4018) and around 1862 switched to a diamond pattern with a larger font number (5013). I've recently encountered a larger font 4018 that is reportedly from Bouche du Rhone. My questions are:
1. Is there a good English language source for general information about French cancellations of the period?
2. Was the movement from small to large numerals a general revision across all French post offices?
3. Did most post offices retain the same number before and after the conversion?
4. What post office, if any, had 5103 with small numerals?
5. Lastly, is there a good general reference on the functioning of consular post offices in the Ottoman empire at this time. Who could use the services? Rates? Coordination with Ottoman postal services? Routings to the home countries? etc.

Thanks in advance,
Chuck

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this post
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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
03 Apr 2015
04:12:47am

Approvals

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Hi Chuck,

here are some answers.
1. Not as far as I know. There are a few good French sites though that I used to find answers to your questions.
2. Yes. There were multiple reasons for the move. First of all, the small numerals were often hard to read, especially if the cancel was smudged or not applied correctly. Apart from that, in the 10 years between the introduction in 1853 and the change in 1862, numerous new post offices had been opened and the intended alphabetic order of the numeral cancels had been lost.
(3) Therefore everything was reshuffled.
In the old system ("Losanges petits chiffres" or PC for short) 1-3703 was France Métropole (mainland France) in alphabetic order.
3704-3739 was Algérie in alphabetic order.
3740-4494 was new offices in Métropole, Algérie and Levant in order of creation.

The new system of 1862 ("Losanges gros chiffres" / GC) was reorganized as follows:
1-4999 became France Métropole in alphabetic order
5000-5172: Algérie et Levant (colonies) in alphabetic order
6000-6449: new postoffices created after the introduction of the new system.

4. 4494 was the last numeral created with small numerals. In other words, 5103 small numerals does not exist.

5. Sorry, can't help you with that.

Jan-Simon



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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
03 Apr 2015
04:16:12am

Approvals

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

By the way, 4018 GC is from the town of Trets, which is in the Bouches-Du-Rhone department.

Like
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this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
cgrim3

03 Apr 2015
03:29:52pm

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Thanks so much. This is very helpful and certainly a great response to my first ever thread initiation.

Is there an accessible list of numbers and the post offices that match?

And lastly since you aren't aware of anything in English, can you suggest a source in French? Perhaps the Y&T France catalog? Or would I need something more specialized?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
03 Apr 2015
05:13:03pm

Approvals

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

www.marcophilie.org

The site has a lot of information but unfortunately not a very good structure. Difficult to navigate.

(Modified by Moderator on 2015-04-03 23:09:18)

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
cgrim3

04 Apr 2015
02:30:39pm

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Thanks again. I've started perusing the marcophilie site. Very helpful indeed.

Like
Login to Like
this post
lerivage

29 Dec 2015
02:49:21pm

re: 19th Century Numeric French Cancellations

Hello

I am quite late, but may be this will help you. I use Wikipedia, in French, to get those numbers.

For petits chiffres

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_bureaux_de_poste_fran%C3%A7ais_class%C3%A9s_par_oblit%C3%A9ration_Petits_Chiffres

and for gros chiffres:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_bureaux_de_poste_fran%C3%A7ais_class%C3%A9s_par_oblit%C3%A9ration_Gros_Chiffres


(Modified by Moderator on 2015-12-29 15:55:08)

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