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Europe/Great Britain : soakability (?) of recent GB issues

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Jansimon
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12 Jan 2015
08:53:38am

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Does anybody have experience soaking recent GB stamps? About a week ago I was busy soaking accumulated stamps, among which a number of GB stamps from the last 3 years and found that especially the 2013 Christmas stamps could not be soaked from the envelope. Is this common experience and something that I can expect with other issues as well? And are there ways to prevent the destruction of these stamps during soaking?
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Charlie2009
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12 Jan 2015
09:00:34am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Some of those X-Mas stamps are what they call:Post and Go.They do not have conventional Gum but are peeled off the backing and then stuck to the Envelope.There are various liquids available on the market to get them off the paper.

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Jansimon
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12 Jan 2015
09:09:34am

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re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Is there some sort of listing that says which stamps are of this type and will not soak in the conventional way?

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Charlie2009
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12 Jan 2015
09:30:18am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

In the Catalogue they are usually refered to as self adhesive.

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Anglophile
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RPSL, APS, EPA; US, GB, Ireland, British Europe, Italy, Mauritius Classics
12 Jan 2015
11:42:14am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

In various online club message fora there is extensive discussion of various solvents that people have tried as an alternative to soaking, including Bestine and orange oil-based cleaning products. I find this too troublesome and simply collect GB self-adhesive issues on paper if I cannot get them mint. I use black mounts in my album, so the downside of collecting on paper is that over time the album becomes thick and heavy. I don't mind the "look" of a wall of album binders, so I've gradually redistributed my pages among more binders. I have GB 1840 to 2012 in four Scott Specialty Series 3" 3-ring binders. A hefty load.

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"If this message contained legal advice, it would be followed by a bill."
GeoStamper
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Steve
12 Jan 2015
12:04:55pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Jansimon, I've been doing some research here as well. Several people recommended using WD-40, a product that has achieved legendary status, at least here in the States, for doing almost anything related to un-sticking, unfastening, or lubricating. But a more recent product recently caught my eye: Un-Du. It contains the solvent Heptane-N, and is touted to remove self-adhesive stamps. This short video is interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2pc57U2q-g

I have not yet tried either product, but am about ready to begin testing. Curious if others have tried WD-40, Un-Du, or other similar products?

Steve

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Anglophile
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RPSL, APS, EPA; US, GB, Ireland, British Europe, Italy, Mauritius Classics
12 Jan 2015
12:23:37pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

I have not personally tried WD-40 for this purpose, but it has been universally condemned on other boards for this purpose. While it works, apparently it leaves greasy residue on the stamp that can take on a dark appearance, as well as the persistent petroleum-type odor that is familiar to those who have used it for other purposes. It should be kept in mind that WD-40 was developed as a persistent water dispersant - that is, it is chemically formulated to remain on a metal surface for a long time for the purpose of discouraging water adherence and therefore rust. This persistence is not necessarily what you want for a stamp.

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Bobstamp
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12 Jan 2015
12:26:38pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Heptane-N? Really?

This is from a Chevron document:

Aspiration hazard, Category 1 Flammable liquids, Category 2 Skin irritation, Category 2
Specific target organ systemic toxicity - single exposure, Category 3

Acute aquatic toxicity, Category 1

Chronic aquatic toxicity, Category 1

Classification (67/548/EEC, 1999/45/EC)

Highly flammable

Harmful Irritant

Dangerous for the environment

H304: May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.

H225: Highly flammable liquid and vapour.

H315: Causes skin irritation.

H336: May cause drowsiness or dizziness.

H400: Very toxic to aquatic life.

H410: Very toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

Bob

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Anglophile
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RPSL, APS, EPA; US, GB, Ireland, British Europe, Italy, Mauritius Classics
12 Jan 2015
01:09:44pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Not serious issues if standard precautions are observed such as adequate ventilation, safety glasses or goggles, and gloves. Most hobbyists would find that 200 ml is a lifetime supply. You apply a tiny drop with an eyedropper to the back of the paper to which the stamp is adhered, remove the stamp, and discard the paper. Some adhesive remains on the stamp. Some hobbyists apply talcum powder; others apply thin sheet plastic such as that cut from dealer cards. It's no different than having turpentine or lacquer thinner around your house. However, even the foregoing is too much trouble for me, so I elect to collect on paper.

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GeoStamper
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Steve
12 Jan 2015
01:30:39pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

That's a great point about WD-40. Overspray from WD-40 does leave lasting stains, or at least discoloration, on cardboard. Will probably not even try that option. I've ordered a small bottle of Un-Du and will give it a try. Bob, I'm curious if the product comes with all of those warnings!

Here is the material Safety Sheet for Un-Du:

http://www.uww.edu/riskmanagement/msds/data/un-du_adhesive_remover_doumar_products-_inc._x.x.xx.pdf

My main take-away from that info is to use adequate ventilation.

Steve


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"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
sheepshanks
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12 Jan 2015
01:40:35pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Looked at the Un-Du video, couple of things come to mind.
First if you are going to make a video to sell your product employ professionals.
Second he seemed to use a lot of chemical to remove the strip, a bottle would probably not remove many stamps.
Third would we really want to try and scrape the stamp off with a piece of plastic, imagine it would play havoc with perforations.
Think I will stay with a neatly cut paper surround.
vic

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TuskenRaider
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12 Jan 2015
04:00:30pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Hi Everyone;

You are very correct about WD-40. It is a lubricant (oil), but a very low viscosity liquid
similar to "Liquid Wrench" which is used to free rusted fasteners on your car, or out-
door equipment. Ronsonal lighter fluid comes to mind as a possible solution, as it will
completely evaporate, and is a solvent for some adhesives.

So here is an original thought. Why not contact the people who print the stamps in the
first place. Who else would know more about this sticky goo. I worked with adhesive
labels in manufacturing and they were labeled as the acrylic family of pressure sensi-
tive adhesives. However that may not be what the printers are using.

Their machinery, die-cutting knives, rollers and other mechanical parts must eventually
become sticky with this material and need periodic and regular cleaning. Presses cost
upwards to millions of dollars and must be well taken care of to work well. So you can
be sure that they have address these issues long ago.

Pressure sensitive adhesives were in use many years before they were applied to
stamps. And just the one company, Avery, who makes office supplies, like mailing
labels would have a wealth of knowledge on this topic. I have no interest in contact-
ing them simply because I don't collect modern issues and sell all self stick stamps on
paper, for the buyer to waste their time cleaning.

Another possible source of info is Elsworth Systems, adhesives and precision dispens-
ing equipment. Their sales reps would come directly to the plant where I was Manufac-
turing Engineer with just one phone call and would bring samples, of products that
might solve the problem that I described over the phone. If you mail them samples of
the stamps with a commitment to purchase something if it works and is safe to use,
they will test it for you and come up with a solution. Also they sell items in smaller
quantities, so you do not have to buy 55 gallon drums. Their adhesives sometimes
sell in the same size bottles as retail sizes that you might buy at Ace Hardware!

One thing I learned as a non-degreed Manufacturing Engineer was this. I may not have
the book smarts to know everything about anything, but I do have excellent problem
solving skills. If I have a problem involving chemicals I go ask a chemist the answer.
Always know when to admit "I may not have the answer, but I know someone who
maybe does. Your boss doesn't need to know where you got the answer, just that
you solved his problem! Hey boss where's my bonus? Rolling On The Floor Laughing

If your route is to contact the printers, ask to speak to the Manufacturing Engineer,
otherwise you'll end up connected to a sales people, who may not be very knowledge-
able on this stuff. He will either have your solution or refer you to their chemist or other
engineers.

Good Luck with your quest....
TuskenRaider

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jan 2015
06:45:46pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

I cannot believe anyone who ever used WD-40 on a nut or bolt or set of tools t0 inhibit corrosion would seriously consider spraying it on stamps, or even using it in the same room as his, or her, stamps.
That has to have been started as a jape and passed on by individuals to friends as a further prank.

I have been soaking recent UK self stick stamps in rubbing alcohol with great success for some time now.

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Anglophile
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RPSL, APS, EPA; US, GB, Ireland, British Europe, Italy, Mauritius Classics
13 Jan 2015
08:52:53pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Quote:

"would seriously consider spraying it on stamps"



The technique described elsewhere is to spray a small amount into a glass dish well away from the stamps, then apply a tiny amount to the back of the paper piece, to which the stamp is adhered, using a cotton swab. You allow it to wick through the piece, then gently lift the stamp. So I think you are mentally envisioning a more harmful technique than other writers have actually suggested.

Quote:

"It is a lubricant (oil), but a very low viscosity liquid"



WD-40 is not a lubricant, it is a water dispersant. WD-40 evaporates too rapidly to have long-term lubricating ability.


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Bobstamp
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13 Jan 2015
09:00:29pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Just guessing here, but how about a scientific experiment? Place a stamp that you have no interest in, and one that has zero value, on a paper towel. Dab a bit of WD-40 on it. Wait 24 hours. Sniff. What?! Is that WD-40 I smell?!!!

I haven't done the experiment, but I'm with cdj1122 on this. I believe that WD-40 should be considered a WMD, at least when it comes to stamps!

According to Wikipedia,"WD-40 is the trademark name of a penetrating oil and water-displacing spray." It goes on: "The long-term active ingredient is a non-volatile, viscous oil which remains on the surface, providing lubrication and protection from moisture. This is diluted with a volatile hydrocarbon to give a low viscosity fluid which can be sprayed and thus penetrate crevices. The volatile hydrocarbon then evaporates, leaving the oil behind."

Bob

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TuskenRaider
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13 Jan 2015
09:12:58pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Hi Everyone;

@ Anglophile;

That may be correct, but not necessarily how consumers use it. In addition to using it as
a lubricant and to free up rusty parts, it has additional uses.

When working as a Sears engine tech I saw it used by several techs as a diagnostic test
for fuel flow problems. You remove the air intake filter, spray some WD-40 into the air in-
take and pull the starter. If the engine pops, then the ignition system is probably okay,
and the carb needs cleaning or adjusting. That is of course if the fuel is not too old. That
was tested by sticking your finger in the tank and smelling of it. Stale gas has a very
easily recognizable oder if you know engines well.

If someone makes a good product like WD-40, consumers will find all sorts of uses, that
the designers didn't think of.

Keep on stampin'....
TuskenRaider

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Jan 2015
11:16:45am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

" ....

WD-40 is not a lubricant, it is a water dispersant. WD-40 evaporates too rapidly to have long-term lubricating ability. ...."


And yet for years Auto mechanics have used WD-40 as a lubricating spray. For example when an auto door or hood groans as it is opened, a shot of WD-40 not only cures the problem but does so for a very long period of time.
But then what would they know.

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doodles69ca
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Suzanne
14 Jan 2015
11:31:34am

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re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

For the last year or so I have been using the orange based, Pure Citrus room freshener. It smells good, and because it's a room freshener it's obviously ok to have it in the air when you are in the room. But I don't spray it directly onto the stamp. I spray some into a small container, or even just the lid of the can, and use a cotton swab to dampen the paper on the back of the stamp. I do a dozen or so at a time. Let them sit for a minute or so and then remove the paper from the stamp.

Then I either use an old credit card or similar card, to GENTLY remove the goo that's left on the stamp. I used to put baby powder on the back when I finished, but now I just carefully but firmly run a paper towel over the back of the stamp to remove the extra goo, dabbing on a bit more of the Pure Citrus if needed. Then you don't get the white powder all over everything.

I've used it on all types of stamps, including the GB machins with the security cut outs in them. As long as you go slow when you take the paper off, they will stay intact.
It works on all of the labels I've tried it on as well.

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TuskenRaider
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14 Jan 2015
01:37:34pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Hi Everyone;

@ doodles69ca;

It sounds like you a very methodical, and detail oriented when it comes to working on stamps.
Very good skills for collectors and curators of very old pieces of paper. Sometimes I wish I had
been an archaeologist, and dig up evidence of past civilizations. But they often work on grants
that don't pay very well.

So Doodles, here is a method I use when trying to remove a hinge that is not all that peelable.
Some of the last few years of Dennison hinge production resulted in a hinge that was not very
peelable, and I have several thousand of them! Probably one of the reasons for the demise of
that company.

As soon as I feel resistance to the hinge coming free I stop. Then I place the stamp face down
on a hard smooth surface like glass (a small mirror) and burnish gently with a smooth object,
which causes the brittle hinge goop to break up. the hinge will then come free easily, however
I still pull ever so gently and slowly so as not to cause a thin. If you do not use a smooth hard
surface, there is risk of embossing the stamp paper and permanently deforming it.

I have detailed this method in other threads, but the info has not received a warm welcome.
That is no surprise, not everyone has as much patience as you or I.

Also thank you for sharing in great detail your method and results. Especially not having to use
talcum powder. Not everyone will think your idea is that great, but it doesn't matter. If your info
helped just one collector, then it was worth it. I feel the same way, that someone out there will
try our methods and see that it works better, and be glad they read our reply.

Keep on stampin'....
TuskenRaider

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phos45
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21 Jan 2015
05:19:28pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

the heptane method ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCwmbS2GkjQ


(Modified by Moderator on 2015-01-21 19:23:04)

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Charlie2009
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22 Jan 2015
02:28:15am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

I use something called Stamplift.It comes from:Cotswold-Stuart Covers,P.O.Box 100;York;YO26 9SS;Fax:0844 980 8887.I bought this on E-Bay and a bottle last a long time.

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mitoneu
22 Mar 2015
12:18:44pm

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re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Hi,

After trying lots of methods, including heptane, gasoline, methanol and other things, yesterday I found the ideal procedure for Security Machins (at least for me!)

I was soaking US recent commemoratives (using iso-octane, similar to gasoline), which ae OK for them. Afterwards, I thought I give a try at some Machins. With the tweezers I just damped the back of the Machins, and after about half a minute, gently peeled-off the stamp. It came off quite nicely!

Suddenly, I noticed that what I had applied to the back of the stamps was just water!! Water does the trick!! So here is the procedure I now use:

i) when clipping leave about 0.5 cm on each side of the stamp.
ii) moisten the back gently with water until you can see the stamp shape (DON´T SUBMERGE THE STAMP IN WATER!)
iii) wait 15-30 seconds
iv) peel off the stamp from the paper, pushing gently. If there is any resistance, moisten the back again gently
v) In general, no glue remains on the stamp´s back.
vi) there may be some small paper remainings, but you can eliminate them by rubbing them off gently with your fingers, after moisten very faintly.

I think that these new stamps (a nightmare for philatelists) are manufactured, gluing together two layers: a very thin paper with the design glued to a second layer with the self-adhesive glue. The glue between these two layers seems to be water- and solvent soluble, so that when you immerse the whole clipping, it releases the thin paper design which is quite difficult to deal with. To my surprise, the self-adhesive glue of the complete stamp proved to be also water-soluble. Thus, one should avoid reaching the internal glue during the soaking and just damping the clipping from the back.

Hope this helps!

Miguel


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Ningpo
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22 Mar 2015
08:54:07pm
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

This is my kit:


Image Not Found


The Hagesan label remover contains:

Solvent naptha (petroleum), light arom.
Dipropylene glycol monomethyl ether

And yes, it can have harmful or adverse effects if used stupidly or excessively. So I don't. I use a small flat artist paint brush and a Lindner Combi-Perf gauge/watermark tray (a slim clam-shell type hinged box).

I put the stamp(s) into the tray side, paint enough label remover to soak them and shut the box. I leave for maybe fifteen minutes, then open the box and using the glue spatula, with tongs if necessary and ease the stamp and paper apart.

I repeat this a second time and using the spatula and scrape the goo off.

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tele1962
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01 Aug 2015
03:53:46am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

I am having great success with Surgical Spirit/ Rubbing Alcohol in removing the GB self adhesives.Thumbs Up

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TuskenRaider
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01 Aug 2015
04:35:13am
re: soakability (?) of recent GB issues

Hi Everyone;

I sounds like a few of you should combine your recipes together and sell to NASA so we can finally
reach star systems, that are light centuries away! Laughing

As Ralph Cramden used to say "one of these days Alice, BANG - ZOOM." Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Just chillin'....
TuskenRaider

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