Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
These are interesting (and fake):
Says 24 mm and "As Is". Normal coil 25 mm. Look at difference between top and bottom edges! Over $500 already!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/386787378464?it ...
This isn't even a good fake! You can see the perf remnants at bottom and the obvious scuffing at top.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364742809701?it ...
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That's so sad. Someone's about to get taken to the cleaners.
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Back in the late 90's we had the ability to warn people. Bids were transparent - you could even see the lots other bidders had bids on. It worked back then, not so much today. Different mentality.
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First I am not an expert on these. Your second listing definitely is a fake but I am not so sure about the first.
Below is another 356 pair with certs that is similar to the pair in your first link.
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Jack,
The key is that the pair that I showed only has a height of 24 mm per the listing. That is a full mm short of what it should be. That is WAY more than natural variability. You can also tell that the top and bottom were cut differently if you look closely. Finally, this seller is notorious for such hi-jinx and listed it "As Is".
If ANYONE who knew what they were doing honestly believed that this was a legit 356 coil pair, they would send it off for a cert!
Also look at how nice and straight the edges (top and bottom) are the one you showed. Now look at the one I showed. Nah. That is DEFINATELY a fake. No doubt about it.
Lars
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Lars,
You may well be correct that the 356 pair is fake. I agree with you that anyone with any sense would have got a cert if they really thought it was genuine.
I will point out that in my copy of Schmid's Expert Book, they note that this coil does come as short as 24.2mm:
"Coil Size and Cut Edges. This is usually a tall coil, ranging in
height from 25.0 mm to 25.2 mm. There is, however, a smaller group
of genuine examples that measure considerably less. An analysis of
eight line pairs (which are always genuine if the guidelines are
genuine) revealed two that measured 24.2 mm and six that measured
25.0 mm, or greater."
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Jack,
I understand your point, and if EVERYTHING else about this pair looked good, I would be tempted to take a chance myself and send off for a cert, but that is definitely NOT the case. Not only is the height dangerously short, the edges are uneven and not even cut the same way on the top as the bottom. This is DEFINATELY a fake! Zero doubt about it.
But this is a good object lesson in detecting Third Bureau fakes because this is a really good one!
Lars
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CAVEAT: I don't know how to make a link launch a new window in this tool so you have to click the back button on the browser to come back to SOR after clicking on the links below. If we could add an HTML target tag of blank to the links, that would be nice.
These are interesting (and fake):
Says 24 mm and "As Is". Normal coil 25 mm. Look at difference between top and bottom edges! Over $500 already!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/386787378464?it ...
This isn't even a good fake! You can see the perf remnants at bottom and the obvious scuffing at top.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364742809701?it ...
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re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
That's so sad. Someone's about to get taken to the cleaners.
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08:44:10am
Auctions - Approvals
re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
Back in the late 90's we had the ability to warn people. Bids were transparent - you could even see the lots other bidders had bids on. It worked back then, not so much today. Different mentality.
3 Members
like this post.
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re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
First I am not an expert on these. Your second listing definitely is a fake but I am not so sure about the first.
Below is another 356 pair with certs that is similar to the pair in your first link.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
Jack,
The key is that the pair that I showed only has a height of 24 mm per the listing. That is a full mm short of what it should be. That is WAY more than natural variability. You can also tell that the top and bottom were cut differently if you look closely. Finally, this seller is notorious for such hi-jinx and listed it "As Is".
If ANYONE who knew what they were doing honestly believed that this was a legit 356 coil pair, they would send it off for a cert!
Also look at how nice and straight the edges (top and bottom) are the one you showed. Now look at the one I showed. Nah. That is DEFINATELY a fake. No doubt about it.
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
Lars,
You may well be correct that the 356 pair is fake. I agree with you that anyone with any sense would have got a cert if they really thought it was genuine.
I will point out that in my copy of Schmid's Expert Book, they note that this coil does come as short as 24.2mm:
"Coil Size and Cut Edges. This is usually a tall coil, ranging in
height from 25.0 mm to 25.2 mm. There is, however, a smaller group
of genuine examples that measure considerably less. An analysis of
eight line pairs (which are always genuine if the guidelines are
genuine) revealed two that measured 24.2 mm and six that measured
25.0 mm, or greater."
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: 3rd Bureau Fakes on eBay
Jack,
I understand your point, and if EVERYTHING else about this pair looked good, I would be tempted to take a chance myself and send off for a cert, but that is definitely NOT the case. Not only is the height dangerously short, the edges are uneven and not even cut the same way on the top as the bottom. This is DEFINATELY a fake! Zero doubt about it.
But this is a good object lesson in detecting Third Bureau fakes because this is a really good one!
Lars
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this post