Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
11:45:16am
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I saw these. Nice stuff!
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10:34:20pm
The Russian BOB stuff is a bit odd. A lot of it is relatively inexpensive in Scott's but a lot of the E-Bay sellers must think it is really rare and are trying to get "an arm and a leg" for it. Prices here are very fair, and in some cases you might say they are too low. The stuff really doesn't show up often but thankfully there are a few of our sellers who offer it on occasion. Thanks very much for the fair prices, it really is appreciated.
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My experience is that Scott has too low values for these. A problem is that the amount of forgeries goes hand in hand with the demand. About 20 years ago (time flies!) I had found a large collection of Ukrainian trident overprints and other obscure Russian civil war stuff. I sold it all on eBay, when that was still a profitable way to go. I fetched quite good prices for everything, especially Odessa tridents and the real rare items: Courier Field Post stamps. But even then there was a lot of junk floating around. One has to know what to look for or base the bids on the fact that you can't be sure if they are real or not...
But especially the courier field post ones went away for hundreds of dollars a piece...
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08:35:16am
Those trident overprints are causing me a problem as to what to do. My Russia Minkus album splits them up by area with subtle differences in the mark. Scott's doesn't do that and I have most of the ones that Scott's specifies and found pages from another album that does them that way. I will probably just remove those troublesome Minkus pages that I would never be able to fill anyway and just stay with the basics. Not sure what I might decide to do though if I ever run into a more detailed selection.
I was guessing Scott's was a bit under priced since you really don't see this material very often. It's filling in a bit at a time but it's very slow. I also have several pages of Russian revenue stamps and might pick up a catlogue to see how many there are and an idea of prices. At least it would be nice to put numbers on the ones I have. Minkus lists some of the AR Scott's code with the regular album stuff. I only have more to find, AR6, and that's the expensive hard to find one. I also find it often misidentified on E-Bay.
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Well, the fact that Scott doesn't list them does not mean that they do not exist.
I used Michel, which has (or had, because many things have changed) a large table identifying all trident overprints.
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There's a good listing of Ukraine trident types in the SG Russia catalogue, SG L1-L418 plus varieties.
Even more local overprint types are listed in Gregory Pos' small Ukraine catalogue from 1982:
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I did an internet search for "Gregory Pos small Ukraine catalogue" and did not find anything. Is this a book or is it available as a PDF? I am interested in local overprints.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
This is a printed catalogue with 64 A5 pages and a card cover.
I picked up my copy of the catalogue many years ago. It was published by the author in Nottingham in the UK in 1981 but I don't see an ISBN number.
I see that the RPSL library in London holds a copy as does the library of the Collectors Club of Chicago.
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12:27:49pm
I picked this up from a seller on SOR and would love to find out what it is!! I hope Jan-simon doesn't object to me stealing his image. It's a little fuzzy since I just stole it from the page of one of his books. For some reason it reminds me of old Finnish stamps, but I would really like to know what it is. If it turns out to have value I promise to send more money! 
Here's a much clearer view from another site. ( https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.as ... ) They didn't know what it was either! It is obviously an envelope cut out and they implication is that it is Finnish. Does anyone have a specialty book for Finland?
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Don't they say what I suggested to you in my email, that it is a cutout? The pictures on the other site say more than a thousand words!
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01:12:21pm
I just read the post more carefully and also came up with an envelope cutout, I assume Finnish. So I guess the problem is solved. I really like the stamp and will put it with my Russian occupation of Finland stuff - that's pretty close. If anyone has a specialty catalog for Finland a little more information would be great. Another interesting stamp from Jan-simon!!
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I managed to track down the first chapter of "POSTAL STATIONERY OF RUSSIA AND ITS DEPENDENCIES (1845 - 1922)" by A. Epstein, and on page 3 I found the design we are now looking for, which suggests it is Russian. I could not see much difference between designs D9 and D11, so I circled both of them.
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Zooming in, I see that only D11 has the lightning bolts under the double headed eagle, so that's the one.
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02:15:32pm
Thanks Jansimon, great work and well above what I expected you to do. I will put a comment next to the item and put it near the appropriate date in my Minkus catalog. Thanks very much!!
I don't think I'll start looking for the rest but it's great to have an example! I really hate doing things like watermarks but this type of research is much more fun. I have a couple pages of Russian revenues as well so maybe I should invest in a book for identification. I think Barefoot did one!!
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Thanks nigelc for the info....
Paul
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06:54:45pm
This seems to fit in the same general area. I have been picking up bunches of the trident Ukraine overprints on Russian stamps. My Minkus album doesn't just show the basic varieties, it get into the regional differences. I have the SG Russia catalog which also shows this. I'm trying to build up quite a few so I have lots to check and bought a bunch from a new book that just went up. Has anyone else tried collecting these by region ( Kiev, Odessa, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkov, Poltava, Pololia and Kherson)? What am I getting into? Any advise would be appreciated. Since I already have the pages in my album it seems like an obvious way to go. But I get the feeling it will be tricky!!!
Also, the Minkus album refers to numbers. Did they have their own catalog or did they use numbers from some other source? If they used their own numbers it will make it a bit more difficult since I have these numbers covered up in my album with black unremoveable mountings.
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08:19:07pm
Roy
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02:59:45pm
I'm still really curious if any of you Russia collectors has ever tried to collect the Ukraine trident overprints by area. I've had one dealer accuse me of being crazy! What am I getting myself into? If anyone has articles or scans that would make this a bit easier you could use my member information e-mail to get in touch.
EDIT: I was looking at my Minkus Album and I'm not really crazy about the way it organizes the trident overprints. Scott's catalog does it in a much more organized way. I also find the SG catalog a bit confusing as well. I really don't want to buy a complete Scott's Ukraine album or a complete Scott's Russia album just to get their Ukraine pages. I've done some searching and can't come up with anywhere that just offers Scott's trident pages. I'm not asking anyone to do "illegal" scans from a Scott album, but does anyone know of anywhere I can buy these pages. My poor old computer probably couldn't handle a download and I don't want to design my own!! Can anyone provide me with a source for this material? Otherwise I might just have to try filling ( not likely ) my pages from my Minkus album.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Feb 2023
11:45:16am
Thanks again to Eric for posting more of this almost impossible to find material. Whenever he posts a Worldwide book I make sure I look ASAP, there's almost always a surprise there. Finding a copy of Russia's Offices In The Levant #1 was definitely a pleasant surprise, that stamp never shows at a price like that!!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Feb 2023
10:34:20pm
re: Russian BoB
The Russian BOB stuff is a bit odd. A lot of it is relatively inexpensive in Scott's but a lot of the E-Bay sellers must think it is really rare and are trying to get "an arm and a leg" for it. Prices here are very fair, and in some cases you might say they are too low. The stuff really doesn't show up often but thankfully there are a few of our sellers who offer it on occasion. Thanks very much for the fair prices, it really is appreciated.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Russian BoB
My experience is that Scott has too low values for these. A problem is that the amount of forgeries goes hand in hand with the demand. About 20 years ago (time flies!) I had found a large collection of Ukrainian trident overprints and other obscure Russian civil war stuff. I sold it all on eBay, when that was still a profitable way to go. I fetched quite good prices for everything, especially Odessa tridents and the real rare items: Courier Field Post stamps. But even then there was a lot of junk floating around. One has to know what to look for or base the bids on the fact that you can't be sure if they are real or not...
But especially the courier field post ones went away for hundreds of dollars a piece...
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
14 Feb 2023
08:35:16am
re: Russian BoB
Those trident overprints are causing me a problem as to what to do. My Russia Minkus album splits them up by area with subtle differences in the mark. Scott's doesn't do that and I have most of the ones that Scott's specifies and found pages from another album that does them that way. I will probably just remove those troublesome Minkus pages that I would never be able to fill anyway and just stay with the basics. Not sure what I might decide to do though if I ever run into a more detailed selection.
I was guessing Scott's was a bit under priced since you really don't see this material very often. It's filling in a bit at a time but it's very slow. I also have several pages of Russian revenue stamps and might pick up a catlogue to see how many there are and an idea of prices. At least it would be nice to put numbers on the ones I have. Minkus lists some of the AR Scott's code with the regular album stuff. I only have more to find, AR6, and that's the expensive hard to find one. I also find it often misidentified on E-Bay.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Russian BoB
Well, the fact that Scott doesn't list them does not mean that they do not exist.
I used Michel, which has (or had, because many things have changed) a large table identifying all trident overprints.
Login to Like
this post
re: Russian BoB
There's a good listing of Ukraine trident types in the SG Russia catalogue, SG L1-L418 plus varieties.
Even more local overprint types are listed in Gregory Pos' small Ukraine catalogue from 1982:
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re: Russian BoB
I did an internet search for "Gregory Pos small Ukraine catalogue" and did not find anything. Is this a book or is it available as a PDF? I am interested in local overprints.
Paul
Login to Like
this post
re: Russian BoB
Hi Paul,
This is a printed catalogue with 64 A5 pages and a card cover.
I picked up my copy of the catalogue many years ago. It was published by the author in Nottingham in the UK in 1981 but I don't see an ISBN number.
I see that the RPSL library in London holds a copy as does the library of the Collectors Club of Chicago.
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
17 Feb 2023
12:27:49pm
re: Russian BoB
I picked this up from a seller on SOR and would love to find out what it is!! I hope Jan-simon doesn't object to me stealing his image. It's a little fuzzy since I just stole it from the page of one of his books. For some reason it reminds me of old Finnish stamps, but I would really like to know what it is. If it turns out to have value I promise to send more money!
Here's a much clearer view from another site. ( https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.as ... ) They didn't know what it was either! It is obviously an envelope cut out and they implication is that it is Finnish. Does anyone have a specialty book for Finland?
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Russian BoB
Don't they say what I suggested to you in my email, that it is a cutout? The pictures on the other site say more than a thousand words!
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
17 Feb 2023
01:12:21pm
re: Russian BoB
I just read the post more carefully and also came up with an envelope cutout, I assume Finnish. So I guess the problem is solved. I really like the stamp and will put it with my Russian occupation of Finland stuff - that's pretty close. If anyone has a specialty catalog for Finland a little more information would be great. Another interesting stamp from Jan-simon!!
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Russian BoB
I managed to track down the first chapter of "POSTAL STATIONERY OF RUSSIA AND ITS DEPENDENCIES (1845 - 1922)" by A. Epstein, and on page 3 I found the design we are now looking for, which suggests it is Russian. I could not see much difference between designs D9 and D11, so I circled both of them.
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this post
Approvals
re: Russian BoB
Zooming in, I see that only D11 has the lightning bolts under the double headed eagle, so that's the one.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
17 Feb 2023
02:15:32pm
re: Russian BoB
Thanks Jansimon, great work and well above what I expected you to do. I will put a comment next to the item and put it near the appropriate date in my Minkus catalog. Thanks very much!!
I don't think I'll start looking for the rest but it's great to have an example! I really hate doing things like watermarks but this type of research is much more fun. I have a couple pages of Russian revenues as well so maybe I should invest in a book for identification. I think Barefoot did one!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Russian BoB
Thanks nigelc for the info....
Paul
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Feb 2023
06:54:45pm
re: Russian BoB
This seems to fit in the same general area. I have been picking up bunches of the trident Ukraine overprints on Russian stamps. My Minkus album doesn't just show the basic varieties, it get into the regional differences. I have the SG Russia catalog which also shows this. I'm trying to build up quite a few so I have lots to check and bought a bunch from a new book that just went up. Has anyone else tried collecting these by region ( Kiev, Odessa, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkov, Poltava, Pololia and Kherson)? What am I getting into? Any advise would be appreciated. Since I already have the pages in my album it seems like an obvious way to go. But I get the feeling it will be tricky!!!
Also, the Minkus album refers to numbers. Did they have their own catalog or did they use numbers from some other source? If they used their own numbers it will make it a bit more difficult since I have these numbers covered up in my album with black unremoveable mountings.
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20 Feb 2023
08:19:07pm
re: Russian BoB
Roy
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Mar 2023
02:59:45pm
re: Russian BoB
I'm still really curious if any of you Russia collectors has ever tried to collect the Ukraine trident overprints by area. I've had one dealer accuse me of being crazy! What am I getting myself into? If anyone has articles or scans that would make this a bit easier you could use my member information e-mail to get in touch.
EDIT: I was looking at my Minkus Album and I'm not really crazy about the way it organizes the trident overprints. Scott's catalog does it in a much more organized way. I also find the SG catalog a bit confusing as well. I really don't want to buy a complete Scott's Ukraine album or a complete Scott's Russia album just to get their Ukraine pages. I've done some searching and can't come up with anywhere that just offers Scott's trident pages. I'm not asking anyone to do "illegal" scans from a Scott album, but does anyone know of anywhere I can buy these pages. My poor old computer probably couldn't handle a download and I don't want to design my own!! Can anyone provide me with a source for this material? Otherwise I might just have to try filling ( not likely ) my pages from my Minkus album.
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