Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Steve,
Beautiful Blooms--strip of 11
Tropical Fruits--strip of 11
24/7 4 Flags--strip of 9
For album pages,they need be mounted in a diagonal position.
If useing stock pages- the single pocket/diagonal for 11 strip,and either 4 or 5 vertical pocket for the 9 strip.( or use the single pocket page).
The plate number should be on the center stamp.
Technicaly,the blooms and fruits should be a strip of 21,, according to rules for plate numbered strips. But as with these 9's and 11's ,the problem of storage does create the need for the smaller stips.
I still havent heard from anyone about the upcoming 10 flags per issue(60 toal over 3 years).
The first commemoative size stamp in a coil format.
You think you're haveing trouble with strips of 9 and 11 regular size coils----wait till you get a load of the new flags.
They will be about the same length as 20 regular size stamps just for a strip of 10.
I guess for albums,two strips of 5 would fit the page,but it will not be a plate number strip, the prefered way to collect plate strips.
I think I am going to collect this one as a whole roll. They will be in a roll of 50-at 21.00 a roll. Or partial roll with a set of ten singles for my vario page album and ten singles mailed to myself to have a set of on cover useage.
An index card file box should hold the six rolls to be issued.Thats the only suggestion I have for storeing them.(as full roll or coiled up strips)
I ask either here or another site,for the measurements of a press sheet storage sheet or album,but no one has replied so far. If it's big enough to hold the large press sheets,it just may accomodate our long plate number strips.
TOM
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To add,,
basic rule for plate number strips.
plate number on center stamp,and equal amount of stamps on either side.
hence the 3 , 5 , 7 , 9 , 11 count strip.
The 3 , 5 , 7 are for the single stamp issue.
The 9 , 11 are for multiple design issues.
Usually,but not always,the extra stamp on the end of the strip is a duplicate of the numbered stamp,without a number.
Some times,with the number on only one design of the set,and numbers printed in exact distances,there will not be an unnumbered stamp with that design. The blooms have the number on one design only,no other design has the plate number.And with the xmas antique toys.Only the fire engine has a number,but it also has non numbered fire engines.
I dont have the info on the new 10 flags of our nation.Dont know where the number will fall,its count,or even if there will be numbers.
Does anyone have info on these stamps???
TOM
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Tom, I believe that PNC3 was a common collecting approach in earlier years but it has basically been anbandoned in favor of PNC5. PNC3 is still common for earlier issues, but I NEVER see them offered for recent stamps. I seldom see PNC7 and am not familiar with it as a specialty-wide convention, but, as the change from PNC3 to 5 convincingly documents, change is a constant. The PNC9 is for sets of 4, with 4 flanking each side of a PNC single; and PNC11 is for strips of 10.
For the PNC11, is the PNC single in the center, flanked by 5 different attached singles on either side?
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David,
PNC11, or as some new issue servicers list them-PS11,
Yes,the plate number is central,with equal count of stamps to either side.
Usualy with the additional stamp being a duplicate stamp of the plate numbered stamp (without a p#). This was with plate number intervals at a greater numer than ten. With the p# spaced at every tenth stamp,there is no non p#ed stamp.So a plate strip of 10 would be the norm.Some still do the 11 strip,with two p#ed stamps-1st and 6th,or sixth and 11th,to keep uniformity on the album pages,or collecting format.
This is why I asked about the new national flags.Are they (the plate numbers) going to be spaced at every tenth. If so,then the PNC10 will be used,or else you could only get half as many strips froma roll of 50.Instead of 5 PNC10s it would be 2 of the PNC11 with two p#ed stamps.So for all purposes,the PNC10 will prevail.
If per chance the plate numbers are at greater or lessor distances,a great many varieties of strips will be created,with the plate number falling on a different flag.
Ive seen images of the new flags,but no info on the plate number spaceing, intervals.And why I asked if anyone did.
The PNC3,rule, was a follow up of the line on coils. To show it, a pair was prefered-"line pair".
With a stamp to either side of the line.And when P#s started,it stood to reasson to have a stamp to either side of the numbered stamp.
My feelings are that the stamp to either side was to protect the perfs in pristeen condition.So the pnc5 created that protection for the PNC3,and so forth. Much as some collectors of yore collected plate blocks of 9 to protect the perfs of a PB of 4.Some just cut part of the third stamp,enough remaiming to protect the perfs.This wasnt for the average collector,but rather the specialist in perf sizes. The classics had many reprints of the same stamp,with a variety of perf sizes. Torn,missing perfs,pulled perfs and used stamps sometimes could not be IDed properly and were reguarded as lessor value or grade when any type of damage occured to the perfs.Hence an easy way to protect these was the nines or 4's with parts of 3rd stamp attached.(block of 9). Although this should not be confused with larger blocks than 4's,,where the plate numbers and such were not in the corners of a sheet.
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it will be interesting to see if the combination of large format, large number of face different coils will have the same deliterious effect on the hobby that the PB20s did, back in the 70s. This, combined with the advent of meaningless plate numbers, could be another big bump over which the marketing folks in USPS may have a tough time climbing over. Time will tell.
thanks for the infor PS11s; and I hadn't thought of PNC3s as an outgrowth of JLPs, but that makes perfect sense.
David
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I've been following this discussion with interest, thank you. I basically understand that JLP'seventually grew into PNC3s when plate numbers were introduced several years ago. My next questions is why or how did PNC3s turn into PNC5s? Can anyone explain this?
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I have often pondered the emergence of the PNC5 coil strips.
My common sense says it's to protect the complete PNC3, mainly the perfs. How often have you goofed and tore or pulled the perfs at either end of a strip,or even a single stamp.When that happens,it becomes a "damaged" item,and no longer a perfect specimen.Instead of extra-fine,or superb, it becomes an "average" grade.Makeing it worth less than the catalog value for even a fine/very fine.
Others have contended the extra two stamps are only dealer hype to sale more stamps. Less wasted inventory,to be sold as discount postage.And a way to increase the price for higher profits.
Still others believe it looks more asthetic ,a better apperence in the album pages.
If you look back at earlier plate numbered coils,before 5's and 7's were more the norm, many PNC5,and a couple PNC7 strips are much much higher in catalog valuation listings. This alone prompts the average collector to seek out the longer strips,and continue forward with each new coil issue,thinking values will increase,or just that the item may just be something sought after in the more specialized collectors point of view.
Examples like- sct # 1908,fire engine-20 cent,plate # 2,,
a plate single- 6.00 , a PNC3 - 200.00 , and a PNC5 - 850.00 . (1999 Scott cat.) A big difference in the collecting formats.
Another is the 20 cent Consummer Education coil,sct # 2005,plte # 1-2 -- PNC3- 32.50/ PNC5- 190.00 , And 3-4 was PNC3- 30-00 / PNC5 - 110.00.
Not all coils,nor plate numbers have this big differences,but enough to encourage the collector to go for the longer plate strips.
It's a matter of personal preference in which format to collect coils. Whether by catalog listed or the way you like it.
If you are buying from a supplier,you can request the desired length of strips.If you are ordering from USPS fullfilment center,you either order full rolls of the 100 size,or a strip of 25 from the larger rolls.Either way,you are stuck with a lot of extra stamps, so you might as well save them in a longer strip,you already paid for them,.
But,as to the "why" of the PNC5 ,there's no real ryme or reason. Just a personal preference,for unspecified reasons.
One starting to collect stamps,uses the catalog listings as a guide for how to collect,what to collect,and in which format, according to the accepted habits of the stamp collecting community.
I'll stick with my "personal" reason , For protection of the perfs.As why the extra two stamps were added to the PNC3.
ps//The large rolls of coils with back numbers has also been given for the reason for PNC5. It is a plain stamp (no back number) to either side of the PNC3 with the three positions of the back numbers, Center,1 left and 1 right of the plate numbered stamp. This was expanded to 5 positions,hence a PNC7 to have a plain ,no back number ,to either side of the PNC5.
I guess this could get overdone. But longer strips just wont fit in the average sized albums or stock pages. There seems to be a limit to the madness.
There is however a growing number of coil collectors who became interested in the back numbers (accounting numbers).
I dont collect all positions. Just the # on #, or back number on the plate numbered stamp, or center position of a PNC strip of 5 or 7 .
TOM
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the only reason i can think of is the following: many of the early PNCs also had the JLP, and when it was on the stamp adjacent to the PN, the LP marking was on the end; in an effort to flank both the PN and LP, PNC3 was expanded to PNC5. This is pure speculation on my part. The VSC has many more PNC collectors, and there's a coil collector list serve, either of which might have more definitive answers.
David
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04:20:05pm
Last year, the USPS issued 10 different design coil stamps featuring Beautiful Blooms. This year, they are issuing the Flags 24/7 with 4 designs, and the Tropical Fruits with 5 designs. What format are the plate number strips collected in? Strips of 10 (or 11) for the Beautiful Blooms? Strips of 8 (or 9) for the Flags24/7? Whate about the Tropical Fruits issue? In addition, where can one mount a 10 or 11 strip of the Beautiful Blooms if that is the case? I seriously doubt it can fit on your standard album page!! Any assistance with this would be appreciated. Thank you.
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02:35:17am
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
Steve,
Beautiful Blooms--strip of 11
Tropical Fruits--strip of 11
24/7 4 Flags--strip of 9
For album pages,they need be mounted in a diagonal position.
If useing stock pages- the single pocket/diagonal for 11 strip,and either 4 or 5 vertical pocket for the 9 strip.( or use the single pocket page).
The plate number should be on the center stamp.
Technicaly,the blooms and fruits should be a strip of 21,, according to rules for plate numbered strips. But as with these 9's and 11's ,the problem of storage does create the need for the smaller stips.
I still havent heard from anyone about the upcoming 10 flags per issue(60 toal over 3 years).
The first commemoative size stamp in a coil format.
You think you're haveing trouble with strips of 9 and 11 regular size coils----wait till you get a load of the new flags.
They will be about the same length as 20 regular size stamps just for a strip of 10.
I guess for albums,two strips of 5 would fit the page,but it will not be a plate number strip, the prefered way to collect plate strips.
I think I am going to collect this one as a whole roll. They will be in a roll of 50-at 21.00 a roll. Or partial roll with a set of ten singles for my vario page album and ten singles mailed to myself to have a set of on cover useage.
An index card file box should hold the six rolls to be issued.Thats the only suggestion I have for storeing them.(as full roll or coiled up strips)
I ask either here or another site,for the measurements of a press sheet storage sheet or album,but no one has replied so far. If it's big enough to hold the large press sheets,it just may accomodate our long plate number strips.
TOM
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02:56:15am
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
To add,,
basic rule for plate number strips.
plate number on center stamp,and equal amount of stamps on either side.
hence the 3 , 5 , 7 , 9 , 11 count strip.
The 3 , 5 , 7 are for the single stamp issue.
The 9 , 11 are for multiple design issues.
Usually,but not always,the extra stamp on the end of the strip is a duplicate of the numbered stamp,without a number.
Some times,with the number on only one design of the set,and numbers printed in exact distances,there will not be an unnumbered stamp with that design. The blooms have the number on one design only,no other design has the plate number.And with the xmas antique toys.Only the fire engine has a number,but it also has non numbered fire engines.
I dont have the info on the new 10 flags of our nation.Dont know where the number will fall,its count,or even if there will be numbers.
Does anyone have info on these stamps???
TOM
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09:57:42am
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
Tom, I believe that PNC3 was a common collecting approach in earlier years but it has basically been anbandoned in favor of PNC5. PNC3 is still common for earlier issues, but I NEVER see them offered for recent stamps. I seldom see PNC7 and am not familiar with it as a specialty-wide convention, but, as the change from PNC3 to 5 convincingly documents, change is a constant. The PNC9 is for sets of 4, with 4 flanking each side of a PNC single; and PNC11 is for strips of 10.
For the PNC11, is the PNC single in the center, flanked by 5 different attached singles on either side?
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02:39:57pm
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
David,
PNC11, or as some new issue servicers list them-PS11,
Yes,the plate number is central,with equal count of stamps to either side.
Usualy with the additional stamp being a duplicate stamp of the plate numbered stamp (without a p#). This was with plate number intervals at a greater numer than ten. With the p# spaced at every tenth stamp,there is no non p#ed stamp.So a plate strip of 10 would be the norm.Some still do the 11 strip,with two p#ed stamps-1st and 6th,or sixth and 11th,to keep uniformity on the album pages,or collecting format.
This is why I asked about the new national flags.Are they (the plate numbers) going to be spaced at every tenth. If so,then the PNC10 will be used,or else you could only get half as many strips froma roll of 50.Instead of 5 PNC10s it would be 2 of the PNC11 with two p#ed stamps.So for all purposes,the PNC10 will prevail.
If per chance the plate numbers are at greater or lessor distances,a great many varieties of strips will be created,with the plate number falling on a different flag.
Ive seen images of the new flags,but no info on the plate number spaceing, intervals.And why I asked if anyone did.
The PNC3,rule, was a follow up of the line on coils. To show it, a pair was prefered-"line pair".
With a stamp to either side of the line.And when P#s started,it stood to reasson to have a stamp to either side of the numbered stamp.
My feelings are that the stamp to either side was to protect the perfs in pristeen condition.So the pnc5 created that protection for the PNC3,and so forth. Much as some collectors of yore collected plate blocks of 9 to protect the perfs of a PB of 4.Some just cut part of the third stamp,enough remaiming to protect the perfs.This wasnt for the average collector,but rather the specialist in perf sizes. The classics had many reprints of the same stamp,with a variety of perf sizes. Torn,missing perfs,pulled perfs and used stamps sometimes could not be IDed properly and were reguarded as lessor value or grade when any type of damage occured to the perfs.Hence an easy way to protect these was the nines or 4's with parts of 3rd stamp attached.(block of 9). Although this should not be confused with larger blocks than 4's,,where the plate numbers and such were not in the corners of a sheet.
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04:00:46pm
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
it will be interesting to see if the combination of large format, large number of face different coils will have the same deliterious effect on the hobby that the PB20s did, back in the 70s. This, combined with the advent of meaningless plate numbers, could be another big bump over which the marketing folks in USPS may have a tough time climbing over. Time will tell.
thanks for the infor PS11s; and I hadn't thought of PNC3s as an outgrowth of JLPs, but that makes perfect sense.
David
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11:47:47am
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
I've been following this discussion with interest, thank you. I basically understand that JLP'seventually grew into PNC3s when plate numbers were introduced several years ago. My next questions is why or how did PNC3s turn into PNC5s? Can anyone explain this?
Login to Like
this post
09:44:51pm
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
I have often pondered the emergence of the PNC5 coil strips.
My common sense says it's to protect the complete PNC3, mainly the perfs. How often have you goofed and tore or pulled the perfs at either end of a strip,or even a single stamp.When that happens,it becomes a "damaged" item,and no longer a perfect specimen.Instead of extra-fine,or superb, it becomes an "average" grade.Makeing it worth less than the catalog value for even a fine/very fine.
Others have contended the extra two stamps are only dealer hype to sale more stamps. Less wasted inventory,to be sold as discount postage.And a way to increase the price for higher profits.
Still others believe it looks more asthetic ,a better apperence in the album pages.
If you look back at earlier plate numbered coils,before 5's and 7's were more the norm, many PNC5,and a couple PNC7 strips are much much higher in catalog valuation listings. This alone prompts the average collector to seek out the longer strips,and continue forward with each new coil issue,thinking values will increase,or just that the item may just be something sought after in the more specialized collectors point of view.
Examples like- sct # 1908,fire engine-20 cent,plate # 2,,
a plate single- 6.00 , a PNC3 - 200.00 , and a PNC5 - 850.00 . (1999 Scott cat.) A big difference in the collecting formats.
Another is the 20 cent Consummer Education coil,sct # 2005,plte # 1-2 -- PNC3- 32.50/ PNC5- 190.00 , And 3-4 was PNC3- 30-00 / PNC5 - 110.00.
Not all coils,nor plate numbers have this big differences,but enough to encourage the collector to go for the longer plate strips.
It's a matter of personal preference in which format to collect coils. Whether by catalog listed or the way you like it.
If you are buying from a supplier,you can request the desired length of strips.If you are ordering from USPS fullfilment center,you either order full rolls of the 100 size,or a strip of 25 from the larger rolls.Either way,you are stuck with a lot of extra stamps, so you might as well save them in a longer strip,you already paid for them,.
But,as to the "why" of the PNC5 ,there's no real ryme or reason. Just a personal preference,for unspecified reasons.
One starting to collect stamps,uses the catalog listings as a guide for how to collect,what to collect,and in which format, according to the accepted habits of the stamp collecting community.
I'll stick with my "personal" reason , For protection of the perfs.As why the extra two stamps were added to the PNC3.
ps//The large rolls of coils with back numbers has also been given for the reason for PNC5. It is a plain stamp (no back number) to either side of the PNC3 with the three positions of the back numbers, Center,1 left and 1 right of the plate numbered stamp. This was expanded to 5 positions,hence a PNC7 to have a plain ,no back number ,to either side of the PNC5.
I guess this could get overdone. But longer strips just wont fit in the average sized albums or stock pages. There seems to be a limit to the madness.
There is however a growing number of coil collectors who became interested in the back numbers (accounting numbers).
I dont collect all positions. Just the # on #, or back number on the plate numbered stamp, or center position of a PNC strip of 5 or 7 .
TOM
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08:46:50am
re: US coil stamps: PNC3/5/9/11? What is the wayto go?
the only reason i can think of is the following: many of the early PNCs also had the JLP, and when it was on the stamp adjacent to the PN, the LP marking was on the end; in an effort to flank both the PN and LP, PNC3 was expanded to PNC5. This is pure speculation on my part. The VSC has many more PNC collectors, and there's a coil collector list serve, either of which might have more definitive answers.
David
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