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United States/Covers & Postmarks : I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

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I still have more questions than answers
02 Nov 2014
11:35:39pm
I have a lot of early 20th century covers at the five cent rate. I also have a bunch to certain European destinations at one and two cents. I have heard this referred to as "treaty rate", but I have not been able to find much about them. I am interested in the time period and the countries involved. Many of them seem to involve banks. I also have a bunch of three cent foreign destination covers that seem to cover the same period of time when we raised our domestic rates a penny during WW1. My last question is how long did the five cent foreign destination rate run?
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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
03 Nov 2014
12:41:37am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

I don't have an exact answer for you, but the "treaty rate" refers to the treaty with the Universal Postal Union. The best I could find was that the treaty was agreed upon by the US Post Office Department in 1888, but the USPOD did not enact it until 1913. It concerned the cost of transmittal of mail (particularly parcels) from one member country to another.

With further research of the UPU, you might be able to find your answers, if no one else can provide more information.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
03 Nov 2014
04:12:19am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

Patrick,

actually, treaty rates refer to treaties with specific countries done outside the normal confines of UPU rates.

The 5c international rate existed for a very long time. I'd need to check B&W to see the dates. it covered most of the world. US rates to Canada mirrored our own domestic rates until recently, so that 5c rate would have covered most other countries.

There WERE some interesting treaty rates available, though, including 2c rates to England and Germany IF the sender specified certain ports. Again, I"ll need to check B&W on this.

1c rates would likely be third class mailings, which existed in both domestic and foreign mail, unlike today, when it's purely domestic and with lots more restrictions.

I think I put up some 2c rates on the DB years ago. They are not common, but I wouldn't call them rare.

More later

David


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
03 Nov 2014
04:16:16am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

here's a little more: http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=5279#30388


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
03 Nov 2014
05:16:48am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

i checked B&W's International Rate book. This is the bible for postal historians trying to understand rates and services.

The 5c UPU rate exsited from 1875 to 1953, an incredible 78 years. the cost stayed constant, but in 1907 the weight increased from 15g to 1 oz.

Concurrent with US participation in UPU rates, US also had treaties with many other countries. Take the first one listed in the book, Ascension, which had a very different set of rates from 1875 to 1896 at which point it became same as UPU.

Finally, US had both UPU rates with Germany and concurrent treaty rates, whereby mailed sent by German steamer could be sent at 2c rate from 1909 to 1915.

Hope this helps.

David

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michael78651
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04 Nov 2014
01:40:37am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

When a country becomes a member of the UPU, it enters into a universal treaty with all the other members of the UPU. That action does not preclude a country from entering into treaties with individual countries (even if the other country is a member of the UPU) as well.

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I still have more questions than answers
05 Nov 2014
07:14:57am
re: I need help with late 19th century and early 20th century foreign destination rates.

That does help. It looks like I need to find that B&W international rate book. I can make assumptions on a bunch of these. I may have to post some specific examples to decipher them.
Thanks,
Pat

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