Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
A bit banged up, but the price was right, and the funds went to help veterans.
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Here's the back side for those who haven't seen them before
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09:43:57pm
VERY nice!
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Never seen those before. What were they used for? Are they engraved? Really neat, thanks for posting photos....Sally
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There were 5 issues of Fractional Currency due to the Civil War and the hoarding of coins. The first issue, known as Postage Currency, or Postal Currency, of which Michael shows two examples, used engraved stamp images on Treasury paper. Later issues did not use stamp engravings, so only the first issue is typically included in stamp collections. All 5 issues may be found in coin collections (particularly collections that feature paper money).
Another interesting item from that era is Encased Postage.
Look for PC1-PC16 for Postage Currency in Scott Specialized. Encased Postage is EP1-EP181.
Both were used as a substitute for coins during the Civil War.
Lars
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With the outbreak of the US Civil War, people began hoarding coins, and their value rose above that of paper money. The US mint could not meet the demand for coins, and shopkeepers were forced to accept postage stamps as change. The government issued what is known as "postage currency" to act in the place of coins. One could also take a postal currency note to a post office to exchange it for a stamp of the same denomination.
Private businesses (stores and such) also got into the act. They used round pieces of metal to encase postage stamps. The stamps were wrapped around a piece of cardboard, placed into the metal casing (brass and sometimes silver), and a piece of clear mica was used to seal in the stamp. These "encased Postage" were used as coinage. In some instances, the brass backs had advertisements stamps on them.
The coinage shortage was short-lived, basically 1862 to 1863. Both of these items are listed in the Scott US Specialized Catalog. Not very many of these, especially the encased postage, survived.
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Since these items were used as money (1862), they also have a numismatic value. The other items that Lars refers to are the fractional currency (1863), which had no philatelic relevance.
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11:23:00pm
You guys should check out some of the articles in the historic section, I've put a number up that are about confederate and civil war issues of philately with more to come.
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"Not very many of these, especially the encased postage, survived."
I would take issue with that. I personally have EP15 in my collection. It has a 2011 CV of $400. I think I got it for about $200 because there were cracks in the mica. Not cheap, but not so rare as to be unattainable. Here is the cert:
Lars
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Scott reports that there were approximately 750,000 pieces of encased postage sold by the manufacturer John Gault. Only between 3,500 and 7,500 are believed to survive today. Working the percentages, no more than 1% of those made exist today.
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Learn something new every day! Thanks for the information. Sally
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I thought it might be fun to bump this topic up after a few years. Not long ago, I finally completed a type set of the first four postage currency pieces. Mine are not the early perforated varieties, but they are in pretty good shape.
There are a few known examples where these were trimmed to stamp size and used on letters. I'd be quite interested in seeing an example of this.
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@GregAlex
What is your avatar? Can't find it in Scott. Is it a proof?
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07:57:29pm
The US Scott's specialized has a section on postal currency and also encased stamps. A few are actually affordable in my 2016 catalog. The only ones I have ever seen (sort of!) were in that awful show Pawn Stars and I really don't remember what they came up with for a value. I can't believe I actually watched that at one time. I watched several years of the American Pickers and even though I was sure it was scripted, I found it fun to watch. Anyway, if any of you have any of the encased stamps could you post a few pictures. I'm also curious if any really valuable stamps were trimmed to fit inside the coins. Maybe some day I will get one!
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"I'm also curious if any really valuable stamps were trimmed to fit inside the coins."
Remember, when the stamps were originally encased, they were worth face value. They weren't valuable in a collector sense at that time.
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06:50:24pm
Not exactly what I meant, but close. Just wondering if stamps that have substantial value now were trimmed to fit into the coins. Does the value of the stamp at all affect the value of the coin, or is it just the rarity of the coin? The advertising on the back of the coins also make them very interesting. If anyone out there has any I would like to see scans of the front and back. From my specialized catalog a few are in the $400 range - semi-affordable. I found 3 on E-Bay, all well over $1000 - out of my range! I found a few on Worthpoint as well, also very expensive! I guess I'll probably never have one!!
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I think most collectors know that the encased coins were an answer to the metal shortage post civil war.
These coin stamps were generally of low value, 12c & 20c being the highest
A quart of milk was 5c and a loaf of bread 3c so low denominations were fine.
For awhile and contrary to government rules, postage stamps were used and accepted by merchants as currency. These quickly "wore out" and were not replaced by the post office.
Enter John Gault a NY business man who came up with encapsulating the stamps.
He obtained a patent and did not sell them to the public but to the merchants at a markup over the face value.
He added advertising on them for an extra 2c.
Some 30+ companies signed on with the major one being Ayer a manufacturer of patent "medicine"
Gault never realized a fortune as in 1862 the government issued "fractional currency" - paper bills with postage stamp designs.
This eliminated the encased stamps and most were detroyed to save the stamp for postage.
Other countries followed this system of encasing stamps particularly France and Germany.
As for what makes them more expensive
1. Minor advertisers on the back for which few coins were produced
2. The condition of the back which tended to wear out quickly.
3. The mica covering the stamp still being present and in good condition
4. Higher denomination stamps used
It should be noted that this system continued well beyond the 1860's and some stamp companies even produced some as late as 1960. These surprisingly sell for $150-$200
Were any rare stamps used - possibly as Gault was not a philatelist and of the million or so stamps used, some may have been rare.
As for selling prices, most better auctions sell them for $300-$500 for the more common ones. The ones where only a few survived go in the $3000-$6000 range
The paper currency bills auction generally in the $400-$1200 range depending on condition You also have the very rare currency booklet stamps issued by merchants
Some examples to follow....
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Other countries have used encased postage. Here's a Danish example from the Second World War. A Danish Stamporama member, Anne Mette Heindorff, now sadly deceased, sent it to me as a gift.
I suspect that they were more important as advertising media than as "coinage". However, Denmark did suffer a shortage of metal for coins during the Second World War because the German occupation confiscated Danish coins to be melted down and used in the manufacture of munitions.
Bob
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Very nice!
How did they get the stamps inserted in the metal frames? Were they put in prior to bending the side tabs? The papers don't show obvious bends or folds.
Thanks for posting these. Really enjoyed seeing such fine examples. 
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As far as I know these are in 2 sections pressed together with a round of mica placed over the stamp for protection
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10:18:39am
I wish they weren't so damn expensive - fascinating items. Maybe I'll be able to afford one or two of the cheaper ones at some point - must keep my eyes open. Thanks very much for the pictures!
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SForgCa - thanks for the answer. I imagine they would have been made by hand then. Really neat items - thanks for sharing!
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"What is your avatar? Can't find it in Scott. Is it a proof?"
Zipper, it's actually an unissued design from 1918. You'll find it on a souvenir card issued in 1991: B-151.
http://www.souvenircards.org/gallery/B/pics/B-151.jpg
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I was looking through some old auction catalogs and remembered this thread on Postage Currency when I opened this catalog, this is a link to the Siegel sale # 955.
https://siegelauctions.com/2008/955/955.pdf
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09:31:28pm
Here are a couple of Civil War items I picked up today.
A bit banged up, but the price was right, and the funds went to help veterans.
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09:33:35pm
re: Postage Currency
Here's the back side for those who haven't seen them before
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
17 Oct 2014
09:43:57pm
re: Postage Currency
VERY nice!
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re: Postage Currency
Never seen those before. What were they used for? Are they engraved? Really neat, thanks for posting photos....Sally
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this post
re: Postage Currency
There were 5 issues of Fractional Currency due to the Civil War and the hoarding of coins. The first issue, known as Postage Currency, or Postal Currency, of which Michael shows two examples, used engraved stamp images on Treasury paper. Later issues did not use stamp engravings, so only the first issue is typically included in stamp collections. All 5 issues may be found in coin collections (particularly collections that feature paper money).
Another interesting item from that era is Encased Postage.
Look for PC1-PC16 for Postage Currency in Scott Specialized. Encased Postage is EP1-EP181.
Both were used as a substitute for coins during the Civil War.
Lars
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10:53:46pm
re: Postage Currency
With the outbreak of the US Civil War, people began hoarding coins, and their value rose above that of paper money. The US mint could not meet the demand for coins, and shopkeepers were forced to accept postage stamps as change. The government issued what is known as "postage currency" to act in the place of coins. One could also take a postal currency note to a post office to exchange it for a stamp of the same denomination.
Private businesses (stores and such) also got into the act. They used round pieces of metal to encase postage stamps. The stamps were wrapped around a piece of cardboard, placed into the metal casing (brass and sometimes silver), and a piece of clear mica was used to seal in the stamp. These "encased Postage" were used as coinage. In some instances, the brass backs had advertisements stamps on them.
The coinage shortage was short-lived, basically 1862 to 1863. Both of these items are listed in the Scott US Specialized Catalog. Not very many of these, especially the encased postage, survived.
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10:57:04pm
re: Postage Currency
Since these items were used as money (1862), they also have a numismatic value. The other items that Lars refers to are the fractional currency (1863), which had no philatelic relevance.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
17 Oct 2014
11:23:00pm
re: Postage Currency
You guys should check out some of the articles in the historic section, I've put a number up that are about confederate and civil war issues of philately with more to come.
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re: Postage Currency
"Not very many of these, especially the encased postage, survived."
I would take issue with that. I personally have EP15 in my collection. It has a 2011 CV of $400. I think I got it for about $200 because there were cracks in the mica. Not cheap, but not so rare as to be unattainable. Here is the cert:
Lars
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02:04:55am
re: Postage Currency
Scott reports that there were approximately 750,000 pieces of encased postage sold by the manufacturer John Gault. Only between 3,500 and 7,500 are believed to survive today. Working the percentages, no more than 1% of those made exist today.
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re: Postage Currency
Learn something new every day! Thanks for the information. Sally
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this post
re: Postage Currency
I thought it might be fun to bump this topic up after a few years. Not long ago, I finally completed a type set of the first four postage currency pieces. Mine are not the early perforated varieties, but they are in pretty good shape.
There are a few known examples where these were trimmed to stamp size and used on letters. I'd be quite interested in seeing an example of this.
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
07 Aug 2019
07:40:51pm
re: Postage Currency
@GregAlex
What is your avatar? Can't find it in Scott. Is it a proof?
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
07 Aug 2019
07:57:29pm
re: Postage Currency
The US Scott's specialized has a section on postal currency and also encased stamps. A few are actually affordable in my 2016 catalog. The only ones I have ever seen (sort of!) were in that awful show Pawn Stars and I really don't remember what they came up with for a value. I can't believe I actually watched that at one time. I watched several years of the American Pickers and even though I was sure it was scripted, I found it fun to watch. Anyway, if any of you have any of the encased stamps could you post a few pictures. I'm also curious if any really valuable stamps were trimmed to fit inside the coins. Maybe some day I will get one!
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12:11:55am
re: Postage Currency
"I'm also curious if any really valuable stamps were trimmed to fit inside the coins."
Remember, when the stamps were originally encased, they were worth face value. They weren't valuable in a collector sense at that time.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
08 Aug 2019
06:50:24pm
re: Postage Currency
Not exactly what I meant, but close. Just wondering if stamps that have substantial value now were trimmed to fit into the coins. Does the value of the stamp at all affect the value of the coin, or is it just the rarity of the coin? The advertising on the back of the coins also make them very interesting. If anyone out there has any I would like to see scans of the front and back. From my specialized catalog a few are in the $400 range - semi-affordable. I found 3 on E-Bay, all well over $1000 - out of my range! I found a few on Worthpoint as well, also very expensive! I guess I'll probably never have one!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Postage Currency
I think most collectors know that the encased coins were an answer to the metal shortage post civil war.
These coin stamps were generally of low value, 12c & 20c being the highest
A quart of milk was 5c and a loaf of bread 3c so low denominations were fine.
For awhile and contrary to government rules, postage stamps were used and accepted by merchants as currency. These quickly "wore out" and were not replaced by the post office.
Enter John Gault a NY business man who came up with encapsulating the stamps.
He obtained a patent and did not sell them to the public but to the merchants at a markup over the face value.
He added advertising on them for an extra 2c.
Some 30+ companies signed on with the major one being Ayer a manufacturer of patent "medicine"
Gault never realized a fortune as in 1862 the government issued "fractional currency" - paper bills with postage stamp designs.
This eliminated the encased stamps and most were detroyed to save the stamp for postage.
Other countries followed this system of encasing stamps particularly France and Germany.
As for what makes them more expensive
1. Minor advertisers on the back for which few coins were produced
2. The condition of the back which tended to wear out quickly.
3. The mica covering the stamp still being present and in good condition
4. Higher denomination stamps used
It should be noted that this system continued well beyond the 1860's and some stamp companies even produced some as late as 1960. These surprisingly sell for $150-$200
Were any rare stamps used - possibly as Gault was not a philatelist and of the million or so stamps used, some may have been rare.
As for selling prices, most better auctions sell them for $300-$500 for the more common ones. The ones where only a few survived go in the $3000-$6000 range
The paper currency bills auction generally in the $400-$1200 range depending on condition You also have the very rare currency booklet stamps issued by merchants
Some examples to follow....
Login to Like
this post
re: Postage Currency
Other countries have used encased postage. Here's a Danish example from the Second World War. A Danish Stamporama member, Anne Mette Heindorff, now sadly deceased, sent it to me as a gift.
I suspect that they were more important as advertising media than as "coinage". However, Denmark did suffer a shortage of metal for coins during the Second World War because the German occupation confiscated Danish coins to be melted down and used in the manufacture of munitions.
Bob
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this post
re: Postage Currency
Very nice!
How did they get the stamps inserted in the metal frames? Were they put in prior to bending the side tabs? The papers don't show obvious bends or folds.
Thanks for posting these. Really enjoyed seeing such fine examples.
Login to Like
this post
re: Postage Currency
As far as I know these are in 2 sections pressed together with a round of mica placed over the stamp for protection
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Aug 2019
10:18:39am
re: Postage Currency
I wish they weren't so damn expensive - fascinating items. Maybe I'll be able to afford one or two of the cheaper ones at some point - must keep my eyes open. Thanks very much for the pictures!
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this post
re: Postage Currency
SForgCa - thanks for the answer. I imagine they would have been made by hand then. Really neat items - thanks for sharing!
Login to Like
this post
re: Postage Currency
"What is your avatar? Can't find it in Scott. Is it a proof?"
Zipper, it's actually an unissued design from 1918. You'll find it on a souvenir card issued in 1991: B-151.
http://www.souvenircards.org/gallery/B/pics/B-151.jpg
Login to Like
this post
re: Postage Currency
I was looking through some old auction catalogs and remembered this thread on Postage Currency when I opened this catalog, this is a link to the Siegel sale # 955.
https://siegelauctions.com/2008/955/955.pdf
Login to Like
this post