Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
It would be interesting to know when estimating the value of albums of MH stamps from the 1950s-1990s.
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Haven't done that, but if you are asking about retail value of such a collection, you are looking at 75% to 100% of face value. If you are asking at what a dealer may buy it for, then it will run 50% to 80% of face value, depending on how much of the stuff the dealer has sitting around gathering dust.
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Calculating total face value of US would not be that hard. The challenge is defining the rules of such an endeavor.
First, decide your parameters. You indicated front of book only, so does that mean you are excluding Airmail? You specify one of each Scott number. Is that each major number, or are minor numbers included as well? Does face value mean the number on the face or the value a mint copy would have for postage? All pre-Civil War issues were demonetized and are thus no longer valid for postage.
If we limit ourselves to just non-airmail major Scott number issues after the start of the Civil War, you need to specify the end point (e.g. December 31, 1999) and the catalog year you use (e.g. 2014) because it is not uncommon for minor catalog numbers to be elevated to major catalog numbers when new catalogs are released.
Now it's simply a matter of using a calculator to figure out the mint value that fits your definition. I doubt it would be of much use, but I suppose it could be an interesting exercise.
Lars
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Linns does totals and sub totals every year.. You could start there. I don't know if they maintain running totals or just recent comparatives.
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I was thinking regular issues only (no airmail), major Scott numbers only. I often see albums at stamp shows containing mint stamps from the 1940s-1990s. I was wondering if there was a shorthand method for estimating the amount of postage in the album (other than counting up every single stamp). I figured it might be easier to have a number in mind, and then subtract the face value of stamps that are missing from the album to estimate the total face value.
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To what purpose? If you are trying to estimate the value of the stamps, look first for items that would command a premium. From 1940 to 1999 the only things I can think of off the top of my head would be the high $ definitives (e.g. $1, $2, $5 starting with Prexies, plus the Express/Priority Mail stamps if you consider them definitives), look for reverse printings on the Overrun countries, 1789B would be a nice find, Looney Tunes no die cut on 10th stamp is good, BK270 is a good find, and several collectors sheets will command more than face, like Celebrate the Century, WWII, Submarines, etc., but not enough to make a huge difference. The rest is worth about 75 cents on the dollar. Your best bet is to calculate each year and make note of any exceptional items. You could also summarize each decade. Then when you see a collection, get out your cheat sheet and add up the decades and individual years you are looking, subtract what's missing, and you have an estimate of FV. The problem is the variability of what is included in each collection. Do they have BK270 or 3248a? Huge difference in price. Is there a complete pane of 2283? If so, check for plate #A3111 which is more than 10 times more expensive. Even though 2283a is not a major, it could be in the collection. I really don't think a simple formula can replace knowledge and research. I would comb through the Scott Specialized for the appropriate years and create my own crib sheets if I was considering purchasing collections to carve up for profit.
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Hi Everyone;
Some folks need to just get a life.
I just came in from the barn splitting kindling in 30s degree weather until 10:00PM. Will have a nice warm and cozy Winter this year. Only heat here is wood. I love this lifestyle. Gonna finish this day with some computer gaming and beer drinking. Tomorrow I'll sort some more stamps for approval books.
I sure can find better things to do with stamps than turning them into yet another useless bean counting project. Why don't you go start a topical collection, or better count how many different topics it is possible to collect, that should take you years. Or here is another one; take a photogravure Machin and count all the little tiny dots of ink and come tell us how many there are. We would all like to know. 
Or lie in bed and count all the little holes in the ceiling tiles.
If you need a big math project to ESTIMATE the value of a collection offered at a show or bourse, then you should change hobbies to collecting coins. Then you just weigh them and calculate the melt value.
Oops I forgot something, gotta run back out to the barn and un-pile all the wood so I can count all the logs and re-pile them. I Knew I forgot something!
Well it's pizza and beer time, see ya later
Ken Tall Pines
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A hobby is a hobby. One's form of recreation in a hobby does not have to conform to what anyone else deems appropriate.
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08:40:38am
Walden,
I hope you are not put off by these responses. I, for one, understand exactly what you are asking for and why. Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get the answers you are looking for.
The best way is going to be "do-it-yourself" with the Scott's and a calculator. This has the additional advantage of knowing exactly what your own "rules for inclusion" are, which of course should be based on the average contents of the collections you see on a regular basis. That way you will know what additions/deductions to make after viewing a specific album.
However, in many cases, collections are composed of so many additions/deductions from the average, that this system won't be all that useful in estimating the face value. I have found the most useful technique to be to get used to estimating face values page by page i.e. "next 20 pages average 8c face per stamp x 20 stamps per page = $32 face", as well as quickly counting "$1 bills" (or $5 bills if you're good!) i.e scanning the page, mentally seeing $1 face in a group ad counting them up.
For those of you wondering about the "purpose" of this exercise, it's this. I go to major stamp auctions frequently. Auctioneers don't always give adequate details about album collections in the auction catalog. The lot will be described as "hundreds of $ face value in an album". I'll look at maybe 20 collections like this in an afternoon of viewing. There is no time to "do research" in deciding on a price to bid. The bidder who has the best, most accurate and quick evaluation technique will be the most successful buyer.
Roy
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Thanks Roy, you are exactly right about my reason for asking. I often buy collections at stamp shows in order to add the older stamps to my collection. In many cases, the album contains a few older stamps I need and a large quantity of mint hinged stamps that are of little interest to me, and are likely only useful for postage. The question I always ask myself is: is there is enough mint postage to make up the difference in price that I am willing to pay for the old stamps and the price that the album is being offered.
It sounds like I will have to either calculate it myself using my own rules for inclusion, or use Roy's page estimation method (a very good idea). Larsdog raised some excellent points about the variation in prices that would likely be encountered in examining a collection. I should also check out Linn's at some point, per David's recommendation.
Kentallpines: coin collecting is a fun hobby too! I started out collecting coins, and became a stamp collector only after learning about the hobby at a monthly coin and stamp club.
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Hi Everyone;
@ Michael;
As frequently happens with some of my posts, people take them the wrong way. I thought with all the I added to my reply that everyone would get that it was in friendly jest. Obviously my sense of humor is way over everyone's heads. I guess I spent too much time reading Mad magazine, over the years. Sorry if I ticked anyone off.
@ Walden;
I almost started a coin collection, but my mom made the choice for me. Basically we were too poor when I was a kid, to get everyones pocket change, and anyway I would just buy candy with it.
My mom noticed how much more I enjoyed pasting S&H Green savings stamps into the books, than did my sister, and how neatly I did so. A couple years later I was very ill, and mom was very worried. She brought me lots of ice cream and a small stamp collecting outfit. It didn't matter that we were poor tho, because she told all of our aunts, uncles and cousins to save the stamps on their mail.
And so a life long hobby was born, all because a loving mom just happened to notice how compulsive I was about mounting savings stamps. I eventually was put in charge of that family task and loved it.
My first albums were H E Harris, and I even have some H E Harris hinges and they are still good and work fine. However when I was in my late teens, the albums from Harris looked too much like green stamp books, because of the lack of white space to set them off.
So that is when I discover Scott's Big Blues (International) and I now have volume 1-7. Later my first wife bought me Scott's Specialized Green album for France. A few years later I heard that many were out of print. I lived in the Chicagoland area at the time, and in those days there were still dozens of bricks-and-mortar dealers. So I bought all I could find. I now house half the world in the greens, in 26 volumes, plus 7 Big Blues.
@ Everyone;
Many of our hobbies are compulsion driven by our many different personalities, without our even being aware of why we really have those hobbies. Many people probably wonder why on earth I would live way out in the woods and heat with only wood. I love cutting and piling wood, and having a nice fire. Had a small fire last night. My stove has a glass door and it is nice to watch when the commercials are on TV.
I love where I live, but it isn't for everyone, sometimes I get snowed in for several weeks. I have frequent cougars visiting my back yard, so I must carry a powerful handgun (357 Magnum). Thankfully never had to shoot a cougar, however many raccoons and porcupines get into everything and like to chew on rubber brake lines or fuel lines. Raccoons however are very tasty when roasted in a Reynolds Oven bag with cornbread stuffing and Brown gravy. Everyone here hunts deer, turkey, bear, pheasants and other species.
Sorry for the long winded reply, I guess I had one cup too many of coffee this morning!
Roy is probably right, about the do-it-yourself approach. However before you just crunch numbers, think it thru and you will see how it must be done to work for the way that you buy your collections. If you create several totals all of them starting with 1930, and ending every decade or five year increments after, might be the simplest solution.
1930-40 subtotal, 1930-45 subtotal, 1930-50 subtotal etc. up to 2010, then when you look at a collection count how many stamps missing between 1930 and the end-date of that collection. Just a thought tho.
Gotta go pile some wood and kindling I cut last night.
Ken Tall Pines
PS; Just an after thought, you could also list them on here in approvals, and I'm sure many collectors would enjoy them.
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"I hope you are not put off by these responses. I, for one, understand exactly what you are asking for and why. Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get the answers you are looking for. "
???
I asked what his purpose was to estimate FV, and if it was to estimate CV or some other measure of value, I provided specific tips for 1940 to 1999 and suggested creating crib notes for each decade and each year, so if he sees 1946 thru 1993 he can get the decade list for the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s plus the individual year notes as needed (46-49 and 90-93).
He needs to create his own crib notes because there are a few oddities to look out for. I listed most of them (I think). Armed with those crib notes he should be able to quickly determine a reasonable value for a collection.
How is that not answering the question?
Lars
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06:47:55pm
It was a simple question (to paraphrase) "Does anyone happen to have the totals for the face value of US stamps by decade"?
It ended up as a lecture on how to do it himself, along with discussion of a lot of complications, a questioning of motivation, a sidetrack into retail and catalog values etc etc. along with a dismissal of the exercise "I doubt it would be of much use".
It was a very simple question! Thus, my comments.
Roy
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No, it most certainly is NOT a simple question!!! Just TRY to define FV for 1983. Do you include the Transportation coils issued in that year, or group all of Transportation together as it will likely be in the album? Are they singles, or PNC3, or PNC5, or PNC7? What about the Great American Series? More importantly, is Scott #1909 part of the equation, or part of BOB. That could easily depend on the album. With a FV of $9.35, that's a pretty big unknown!
To say it is a simple question is to grossly misunderstand the nature of the question. It's a valid question, but far from simple.
Lars
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IMHO, if I were to undertake that task, for which there are no plans for anything like that to happen in this lifetime, I would certainly only count single stamps, since that is how the initial question was presented. (One of each SCN, no BOB) The response to the transportation coils would be they are all available for use by anyone, so would be counted. I use them all of the time, when there are some available, I simply write "First class postage paid" on the envelope below the stamps and send it on it's merry way. As for SCN 1909, there is nothing to prevent anyone from using that stamp for personal use as noting on the stamp signifies any special use intended. I have also used those to mail packages.
Of course, if anyone were to undertake that task, they would be able to count what they want, how they want, since there would probably not be anyone to contest the count.
Mike
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CapeStampMan,
My point wasn't to argue whether service inscribed/precancelled stamps are valid for postage, or if one should collect singles or PNCs of coils, or if SCN 1909 can be used for postage. My point about SCN 1909 was that there is $9.35 worth of face value in one stamp that may, or may not, be included in a particular album (some albums may place it in BOB). This is important since the total FV for commemoratives in 1983 is only $12.44. Not only that, but one would expect to pay LESS than FV for the 1983 Commemoratives - probably 75% of $12.44 = $9.33. However, SCN 1909 has a CV of $20 and would easily sell for more than face value.
My assumption is that the purpose of the original inquiry is to have a tool to help identify the value of common mint stamps in an album. If one saw an album with most spaces filled from 1943 through 1998, for example, is there a quick way to determine the total face value? If there was, one could determine a MINIMUM amount they might pay rather quickly. That would be very helpful.
My point is that there is no single number one can use because some albums would place SCN 1909 in Back of Book (which was specifically exempted from the original inquiry) and some would place it in definitives. Some albums segregate definitives from commemoratives and therefore group a series such as Great Americans. Some albums present coils in multiples. Some albums present se-tenant commemoratives as an intact block AND singles. Some albums completely ignore the booklet version of a stamp and others have a space for a complete pane of a single issue. There just isn't a one-size-fits-all number. Roy's suggestion to do a quick estimate for a group of pages is probably the best advice.
Lars
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I think this string of posts PROVES this is the greatest "hobby" ever
Keep up the good work and keep asking questions
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I think we have overstated what the original intent/meaning of the question is. I am with Roy and believe it to be simple. As I understand it, it is to determine the Total Face Value of All US Stamps Issued (One of Each Scott Number, no BOB). In my mind, it is as simple as adding what the face value of the stamps are. You start at Number 1 and end at Scott ####. The only parameter is that it is a US Stamp.
If the intent, was to track the face value of stamps issued (Forget Scott, Gibbons or any other catalogue) it could be even easier.
Alyn
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If you only take the first part of the question, then it is easy to add up face value and I said so in my first post, and I also questioned what use that would be. However, if you read the entire original post, you will see he adds:
"It would be interesting to know when estimating the value of albums of MH stamps from the 1950s-1990s. "
With that in mind, the question really should be: "Is there a way to quickly determine the total face value of a stamp album that is nearly complete over a large range of modern dates (e.g. 1950 to 1999)?" If you knew the answer, you could simply deduct the FV of any missing stamps and have an accurate total for the FV of the stamps in the album. That would be a very good thing to know when determining what price you might be willing to pay for that album.
That's the question that I say is not simple to answer because of the variability in albums. There would be a HUGE difference between face value of White Ace Simplified definitives and White Ace Complete definitives. Some albums have face-different singles only, others have spaces for paper, press, and perforation varieties. Some albums omit coils and others have coil pairs. Some albums show se-tenant blocks, others show the blocks AND the singles. All of these things are going to alter what the total FV is for a range of dates for a specific album because albums often DON'T have exactly ONE of each major catalog number.
To be useful, you would need a number for face value for specific albums (e.g. White Ace Simplified, White Ace Complete, Minkus All-American, Scott Minuteman, Scott National, etc.). Otherwise, Roy's suggestion for quickly estimating FV is the best bet.
If the question is really as simple as total FV for every major Scott number, then I'm back to my original comment: "I doubt it would be of much use..."
Lars
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Lars,
I was not disputing what you said, but was looking more into the context of the first paragraph of Walden's posting, which IMHO, should be a fairly simple task. His second posting, at least to me, did not have anything to do with the first, since he specifically ask about 40 years of estimated value of albumS, not singular, which puts it into a brand new ball game. Even a single volume would certainly be a daunting task, since as you mentioned the different albums, the transportation issues and et cetera.
Alyn,
Exactly my thoughts.
Mike
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OK, fair enough. I have a 2008 Scott Specialized that I was using to document CV for an analysis I'm doing and I wrote the FV on each page for grins. I never thought there would be a use for it, but apparently there is, so here goes:
The total FV for 1940 through 1999 (Scott 859 through 3369, inclusive, major catalog numbers only) is: $806.231. The odd fraction is due to 1/2c and 1/4c Liberty Issue stamps and fractional Transportation coil values. All I had to do was add up the totals from each page. I still fail to see the usefulness for such a number, but there it is. Enjoy!
Lars
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"TuskenRaider":
Keep up with all that wood-chopping and we'll soon have to call you
"Ken No Pines". Time to reduce your environmental footprint, fella.
Your comments do indeed pass over everyone's head and
are not accepted at "face value". Check out the typical profile
of a Stamporama member and you'll soon understand
that only "TuskenRaider" and "DRYER" have a
sense of humour in this day-the-laughter-died stamp club.
Quit playing softball in a hardball league, Ken, and get with the programme.
John Derry, who's still counting the angels dancing on that pinhead
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"Check out the typical profile
of a Stamporama member and you'll soon understand
that only "TuskenRaider" and "DRYER" have a
sense of humour in this day-the-laughter-died stamp club. "
Interesting comment.
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keeping with the Tall Pines metaphor, Dryer has, as his moniker suggests, the driest wit the Lord allows, so dry that Ken might use it for kindling and keep the pines (not the pins, John's using those) standing for the angels on which to alight
I have wandered far from the thread, and Bobby might mercifully delete this and save many from unnecessary pain.
I found that number, Lars, interesting. That 50-year output seems, if memory serves, to approximate the average two-year output of USPS offerings for ALL stamps, stationary, etc., issued these days.
David
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09:25:07am
Ken "pines" about felled trees, John's wit gets "drier", and David begins again with the "groaners".... Oh, that someone would just shoot me!!!! 
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09:50:23am
"Oh, that someone would just shoot me!!!!"
Ok, if you insist!
Roy
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That's just to cute and clever, Roy.
Mike
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"I found that number, Lars, interesting."
I believe I have provided the caveats, but it bears repeating: That is for exactly ONE of every major catalog number. In some cases, like the Looney Tunes issues, that means an ENTIRE pane AND another one with the 10th stamp without die cut. That's 20 stamps for each Looney Tunes issue. That also includes the total face value of the Legends of the West pane AND a complete pane with the error cowboy. Sometimes the major catalog number is for a booklet single, but the album you are evaluating may display entire panes. The major cat number for coils is typically a single stamp, but they are often presented in pairs (or more) in albums. Most importantly, it includes all of the Priority and Express Mail stamps (which total $77.75). That's almost 10% of the total in just those 11 stamps, so it's very important to know if they are in definitives or BOB if you are going to use that number.
David, that's 60 years, not 50 years.
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01:12:57pm
Thanks, Roy, I needed that. BTW, which photo editing program do you use? Outstanding work on the picture!
Bobby
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02:24:59pm
"which photo editing program do you use?"
Gimp 2.6 (free download)
Takes a little getting used to a few arcane menu selections, but very powerful.
Roy
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Hi Everyone;
I never use pine, it causes too much creasote, which can lead to a chimney fire. Only use Oak, and Maple, and only paper dry.
I have a US Forest Service permit to harvest firewood, as per their pain-in-the-ass, chicken-crap rules. their rules allow harvest of any tree flat on the ground, usually due to storms. A live tree that is a 'leaner' due to a storm that got hung up in another tree will get you a big fine or jail. They also allow harvest of standing dead wood. The permit is $20 for 5 cord of wood, and is good for one year, and can be renewed before the year is up, for an additional 5 cord. And if you ever sell or give away one stick you damn sure will go to Federal Prison. They have leases for folks that are cord-wood loggers, and leases for lumber-loggers. The forest service people play real hardball up here in Michigan.
My stove makes a good warmer to keep my food warm as I enjoy eating some critter meat that was dumb enough to wander within range of my 357 Magnum. I once shot a chipmunk at over 30 feet away, I don't eat those but they eat my kitty's food. The trick with a powerful handgun is to learn to allow for the muzzle flip when you aim. Kinda like Kentucky windage.
I changed my discussion username, because Tall Pines didn't reflect my backwoods wildman ways, so I picked the TuskenRaider, because it more reflected my surly personality.
@ Dryer;
So there John Derry, I actually help the forest by cleaning up all the wood on the forest floor, so a wildfire will have less fuel and do less damage. I often take wood that is dead that others won't take, because it has been on the ground for several years and has lost some heat value, or is kinda small stuff.
I call this junk wood, and pile and dry it out, to use for Oct-Nov, and Mar-Apr. My cabin is small and good firewood is too hot for this time of year. I only use good firewood when it is below +20F- thru - -20F.
Well gotta go kill some lunch, gettin kinda hungery for some nice bloody meat.
TuskenRaider
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Ken Tall Pines - I find that for smaller critters ( we call them varmints down here) that using 38 special hollow points in my 357 gives me a bit more reliable accuracy. Even in Kentucky we don't apply windage unless we have to. It also makes a lot less noise. If noise is not an issue, I would just grab my mini-14 (long range) or 20 gauge (short range).
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OMG shooting critters, comparing ammo, chopping trees . . . Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please? (Just teasing you fellas!)
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Clearly, Stamporama should seek affiliation with the National Rifle Association and proclaim the organization a mercenary militia.
boB
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"Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please?"
That's a great idea, Theresa! I wonder if we can get You Tube clips down the right side of the screen from Die Hard, Terminator, Lethal Weapon, and Pulp Fiction.
Lars
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Hi Militiamen;
@ Lars;
Your right, I don't care for the noise and don't do much like target shooting. Besides it's much more realistic to shoot a live target like a varmint than a beer can. Prefer 38 special, 125 grain hollow point for everything up to and including large raccoons.
When I'm far away from the cabin harvesting wood, or it is close to nightfall and especially an after dark bonfire on a full moon night, I prefer 357, 156 grain soft nose lead. A 38 special will confuse a large predator for a few seconds and second or third round will sufficiently get his attention to pi$$ him off, and make him want to party with ya.
I have no intention of going out after bear, they are notorious for circling back on their track when they sense danger, and then you are the hunted.
Even deer will do this. If you are tracking one at the bottom of a ridge, turn around and go back to before the ridge. Climb the ridge all the way to the top, keep your eyes on the top of the ridge and the side below you. They do this so if they are followed, they get a short warning, by watching their own tracks.
Despite this lifestyle, I would not want to live anywhere else, just too exciting to see a very large cougar in your back yard 100 feet from where you split wood. They always come from behind you so watch your back.
Well time for some cabin grub (homemade chili).
TuskenRaider
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I get confused enough when considering perfs 10x11 vs 12.5x10. all this 38 special perfs and 35791113 stuff just .... i don't know. But then, what really got me...
"Well time for some cabin grub"
with all the game and varmints, do you really need to eat grubs, TuskenAntlers?
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03:29:27pm
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""Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please?""
We already have that. It's called the "Steam Room".
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I am wondering if anyone has ever calculated the total face value of a complete set of U.S. stamps (one of each Scott number, front of the book only)? Or if anyone has calculated the total face value by decade?
It would be interesting to know when estimating the value of albums of MH stamps from the 1950s-1990s.
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10:52:30pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Haven't done that, but if you are asking about retail value of such a collection, you are looking at 75% to 100% of face value. If you are asking at what a dealer may buy it for, then it will run 50% to 80% of face value, depending on how much of the stuff the dealer has sitting around gathering dust.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Calculating total face value of US would not be that hard. The challenge is defining the rules of such an endeavor.
First, decide your parameters. You indicated front of book only, so does that mean you are excluding Airmail? You specify one of each Scott number. Is that each major number, or are minor numbers included as well? Does face value mean the number on the face or the value a mint copy would have for postage? All pre-Civil War issues were demonetized and are thus no longer valid for postage.
If we limit ourselves to just non-airmail major Scott number issues after the start of the Civil War, you need to specify the end point (e.g. December 31, 1999) and the catalog year you use (e.g. 2014) because it is not uncommon for minor catalog numbers to be elevated to major catalog numbers when new catalogs are released.
Now it's simply a matter of using a calculator to figure out the mint value that fits your definition. I doubt it would be of much use, but I suppose it could be an interesting exercise.
Lars
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Auctions
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Linns does totals and sub totals every year.. You could start there. I don't know if they maintain running totals or just recent comparatives.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
I was thinking regular issues only (no airmail), major Scott numbers only. I often see albums at stamp shows containing mint stamps from the 1940s-1990s. I was wondering if there was a shorthand method for estimating the amount of postage in the album (other than counting up every single stamp). I figured it might be easier to have a number in mind, and then subtract the face value of stamps that are missing from the album to estimate the total face value.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
To what purpose? If you are trying to estimate the value of the stamps, look first for items that would command a premium. From 1940 to 1999 the only things I can think of off the top of my head would be the high $ definitives (e.g. $1, $2, $5 starting with Prexies, plus the Express/Priority Mail stamps if you consider them definitives), look for reverse printings on the Overrun countries, 1789B would be a nice find, Looney Tunes no die cut on 10th stamp is good, BK270 is a good find, and several collectors sheets will command more than face, like Celebrate the Century, WWII, Submarines, etc., but not enough to make a huge difference. The rest is worth about 75 cents on the dollar. Your best bet is to calculate each year and make note of any exceptional items. You could also summarize each decade. Then when you see a collection, get out your cheat sheet and add up the decades and individual years you are looking, subtract what's missing, and you have an estimate of FV. The problem is the variability of what is included in each collection. Do they have BK270 or 3248a? Huge difference in price. Is there a complete pane of 2283? If so, check for plate #A3111 which is more than 10 times more expensive. Even though 2283a is not a major, it could be in the collection. I really don't think a simple formula can replace knowledge and research. I would comb through the Scott Specialized for the appropriate years and create my own crib sheets if I was considering purchasing collections to carve up for profit.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Hi Everyone;
Some folks need to just get a life.
I just came in from the barn splitting kindling in 30s degree weather until 10:00PM. Will have a nice warm and cozy Winter this year. Only heat here is wood. I love this lifestyle. Gonna finish this day with some computer gaming and beer drinking. Tomorrow I'll sort some more stamps for approval books.
I sure can find better things to do with stamps than turning them into yet another useless bean counting project. Why don't you go start a topical collection, or better count how many different topics it is possible to collect, that should take you years. Or here is another one; take a photogravure Machin and count all the little tiny dots of ink and come tell us how many there are. We would all like to know. Or lie in bed and count all the little holes in the ceiling tiles.
If you need a big math project to ESTIMATE the value of a collection offered at a show or bourse, then you should change hobbies to collecting coins. Then you just weigh them and calculate the melt value.
Oops I forgot something, gotta run back out to the barn and un-pile all the wood so I can count all the logs and re-pile them. I Knew I forgot something!
Well it's pizza and beer time, see ya later
Ken Tall Pines
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08:06:53am
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
A hobby is a hobby. One's form of recreation in a hobby does not have to conform to what anyone else deems appropriate.
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05 Oct 2014
08:40:38am
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Walden,
I hope you are not put off by these responses. I, for one, understand exactly what you are asking for and why. Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get the answers you are looking for.
The best way is going to be "do-it-yourself" with the Scott's and a calculator. This has the additional advantage of knowing exactly what your own "rules for inclusion" are, which of course should be based on the average contents of the collections you see on a regular basis. That way you will know what additions/deductions to make after viewing a specific album.
However, in many cases, collections are composed of so many additions/deductions from the average, that this system won't be all that useful in estimating the face value. I have found the most useful technique to be to get used to estimating face values page by page i.e. "next 20 pages average 8c face per stamp x 20 stamps per page = $32 face", as well as quickly counting "$1 bills" (or $5 bills if you're good!) i.e scanning the page, mentally seeing $1 face in a group ad counting them up.
For those of you wondering about the "purpose" of this exercise, it's this. I go to major stamp auctions frequently. Auctioneers don't always give adequate details about album collections in the auction catalog. The lot will be described as "hundreds of $ face value in an album". I'll look at maybe 20 collections like this in an afternoon of viewing. There is no time to "do research" in deciding on a price to bid. The bidder who has the best, most accurate and quick evaluation technique will be the most successful buyer.
Roy
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Thanks Roy, you are exactly right about my reason for asking. I often buy collections at stamp shows in order to add the older stamps to my collection. In many cases, the album contains a few older stamps I need and a large quantity of mint hinged stamps that are of little interest to me, and are likely only useful for postage. The question I always ask myself is: is there is enough mint postage to make up the difference in price that I am willing to pay for the old stamps and the price that the album is being offered.
It sounds like I will have to either calculate it myself using my own rules for inclusion, or use Roy's page estimation method (a very good idea). Larsdog raised some excellent points about the variation in prices that would likely be encountered in examining a collection. I should also check out Linn's at some point, per David's recommendation.
Kentallpines: coin collecting is a fun hobby too! I started out collecting coins, and became a stamp collector only after learning about the hobby at a monthly coin and stamp club.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Hi Everyone;
@ Michael;
As frequently happens with some of my posts, people take them the wrong way. I thought with all the I added to my reply that everyone would get that it was in friendly jest. Obviously my sense of humor is way over everyone's heads. I guess I spent too much time reading Mad magazine, over the years. Sorry if I ticked anyone off.
@ Walden;
I almost started a coin collection, but my mom made the choice for me. Basically we were too poor when I was a kid, to get everyones pocket change, and anyway I would just buy candy with it.
My mom noticed how much more I enjoyed pasting S&H Green savings stamps into the books, than did my sister, and how neatly I did so. A couple years later I was very ill, and mom was very worried. She brought me lots of ice cream and a small stamp collecting outfit. It didn't matter that we were poor tho, because she told all of our aunts, uncles and cousins to save the stamps on their mail.
And so a life long hobby was born, all because a loving mom just happened to notice how compulsive I was about mounting savings stamps. I eventually was put in charge of that family task and loved it.
My first albums were H E Harris, and I even have some H E Harris hinges and they are still good and work fine. However when I was in my late teens, the albums from Harris looked too much like green stamp books, because of the lack of white space to set them off.
So that is when I discover Scott's Big Blues (International) and I now have volume 1-7. Later my first wife bought me Scott's Specialized Green album for France. A few years later I heard that many were out of print. I lived in the Chicagoland area at the time, and in those days there were still dozens of bricks-and-mortar dealers. So I bought all I could find. I now house half the world in the greens, in 26 volumes, plus 7 Big Blues.
@ Everyone;
Many of our hobbies are compulsion driven by our many different personalities, without our even being aware of why we really have those hobbies. Many people probably wonder why on earth I would live way out in the woods and heat with only wood. I love cutting and piling wood, and having a nice fire. Had a small fire last night. My stove has a glass door and it is nice to watch when the commercials are on TV.
I love where I live, but it isn't for everyone, sometimes I get snowed in for several weeks. I have frequent cougars visiting my back yard, so I must carry a powerful handgun (357 Magnum). Thankfully never had to shoot a cougar, however many raccoons and porcupines get into everything and like to chew on rubber brake lines or fuel lines. Raccoons however are very tasty when roasted in a Reynolds Oven bag with cornbread stuffing and Brown gravy. Everyone here hunts deer, turkey, bear, pheasants and other species.
Sorry for the long winded reply, I guess I had one cup too many of coffee this morning!
Roy is probably right, about the do-it-yourself approach. However before you just crunch numbers, think it thru and you will see how it must be done to work for the way that you buy your collections. If you create several totals all of them starting with 1930, and ending every decade or five year increments after, might be the simplest solution.
1930-40 subtotal, 1930-45 subtotal, 1930-50 subtotal etc. up to 2010, then when you look at a collection count how many stamps missing between 1930 and the end-date of that collection. Just a thought tho.
Gotta go pile some wood and kindling I cut last night.
Ken Tall Pines
PS; Just an after thought, you could also list them on here in approvals, and I'm sure many collectors would enjoy them.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"I hope you are not put off by these responses. I, for one, understand exactly what you are asking for and why. Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get the answers you are looking for. "
???
I asked what his purpose was to estimate FV, and if it was to estimate CV or some other measure of value, I provided specific tips for 1940 to 1999 and suggested creating crib notes for each decade and each year, so if he sees 1946 thru 1993 he can get the decade list for the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s plus the individual year notes as needed (46-49 and 90-93).
He needs to create his own crib notes because there are a few oddities to look out for. I listed most of them (I think). Armed with those crib notes he should be able to quickly determine a reasonable value for a collection.
How is that not answering the question?
Lars
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05 Oct 2014
06:47:55pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
It was a simple question (to paraphrase) "Does anyone happen to have the totals for the face value of US stamps by decade"?
It ended up as a lecture on how to do it himself, along with discussion of a lot of complications, a questioning of motivation, a sidetrack into retail and catalog values etc etc. along with a dismissal of the exercise "I doubt it would be of much use".
It was a very simple question! Thus, my comments.
Roy
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
No, it most certainly is NOT a simple question!!! Just TRY to define FV for 1983. Do you include the Transportation coils issued in that year, or group all of Transportation together as it will likely be in the album? Are they singles, or PNC3, or PNC5, or PNC7? What about the Great American Series? More importantly, is Scott #1909 part of the equation, or part of BOB. That could easily depend on the album. With a FV of $9.35, that's a pretty big unknown!
To say it is a simple question is to grossly misunderstand the nature of the question. It's a valid question, but far from simple.
Lars
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
IMHO, if I were to undertake that task, for which there are no plans for anything like that to happen in this lifetime, I would certainly only count single stamps, since that is how the initial question was presented. (One of each SCN, no BOB) The response to the transportation coils would be they are all available for use by anyone, so would be counted. I use them all of the time, when there are some available, I simply write "First class postage paid" on the envelope below the stamps and send it on it's merry way. As for SCN 1909, there is nothing to prevent anyone from using that stamp for personal use as noting on the stamp signifies any special use intended. I have also used those to mail packages.
Of course, if anyone were to undertake that task, they would be able to count what they want, how they want, since there would probably not be anyone to contest the count.
Mike
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
CapeStampMan,
My point wasn't to argue whether service inscribed/precancelled stamps are valid for postage, or if one should collect singles or PNCs of coils, or if SCN 1909 can be used for postage. My point about SCN 1909 was that there is $9.35 worth of face value in one stamp that may, or may not, be included in a particular album (some albums may place it in BOB). This is important since the total FV for commemoratives in 1983 is only $12.44. Not only that, but one would expect to pay LESS than FV for the 1983 Commemoratives - probably 75% of $12.44 = $9.33. However, SCN 1909 has a CV of $20 and would easily sell for more than face value.
My assumption is that the purpose of the original inquiry is to have a tool to help identify the value of common mint stamps in an album. If one saw an album with most spaces filled from 1943 through 1998, for example, is there a quick way to determine the total face value? If there was, one could determine a MINIMUM amount they might pay rather quickly. That would be very helpful.
My point is that there is no single number one can use because some albums would place SCN 1909 in Back of Book (which was specifically exempted from the original inquiry) and some would place it in definitives. Some albums segregate definitives from commemoratives and therefore group a series such as Great Americans. Some albums present coils in multiples. Some albums present se-tenant commemoratives as an intact block AND singles. Some albums completely ignore the booklet version of a stamp and others have a space for a complete pane of a single issue. There just isn't a one-size-fits-all number. Roy's suggestion to do a quick estimate for a group of pages is probably the best advice.
Lars
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
I think this string of posts PROVES this is the greatest "hobby" ever
Keep up the good work and keep asking questions
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
I think we have overstated what the original intent/meaning of the question is. I am with Roy and believe it to be simple. As I understand it, it is to determine the Total Face Value of All US Stamps Issued (One of Each Scott Number, no BOB). In my mind, it is as simple as adding what the face value of the stamps are. You start at Number 1 and end at Scott ####. The only parameter is that it is a US Stamp.
If the intent, was to track the face value of stamps issued (Forget Scott, Gibbons or any other catalogue) it could be even easier.
Alyn
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
If you only take the first part of the question, then it is easy to add up face value and I said so in my first post, and I also questioned what use that would be. However, if you read the entire original post, you will see he adds:
"It would be interesting to know when estimating the value of albums of MH stamps from the 1950s-1990s. "
With that in mind, the question really should be: "Is there a way to quickly determine the total face value of a stamp album that is nearly complete over a large range of modern dates (e.g. 1950 to 1999)?" If you knew the answer, you could simply deduct the FV of any missing stamps and have an accurate total for the FV of the stamps in the album. That would be a very good thing to know when determining what price you might be willing to pay for that album.
That's the question that I say is not simple to answer because of the variability in albums. There would be a HUGE difference between face value of White Ace Simplified definitives and White Ace Complete definitives. Some albums have face-different singles only, others have spaces for paper, press, and perforation varieties. Some albums omit coils and others have coil pairs. Some albums show se-tenant blocks, others show the blocks AND the singles. All of these things are going to alter what the total FV is for a range of dates for a specific album because albums often DON'T have exactly ONE of each major catalog number.
To be useful, you would need a number for face value for specific albums (e.g. White Ace Simplified, White Ace Complete, Minkus All-American, Scott Minuteman, Scott National, etc.). Otherwise, Roy's suggestion for quickly estimating FV is the best bet.
If the question is really as simple as total FV for every major Scott number, then I'm back to my original comment: "I doubt it would be of much use..."
Lars
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Lars,
I was not disputing what you said, but was looking more into the context of the first paragraph of Walden's posting, which IMHO, should be a fairly simple task. His second posting, at least to me, did not have anything to do with the first, since he specifically ask about 40 years of estimated value of albumS, not singular, which puts it into a brand new ball game. Even a single volume would certainly be a daunting task, since as you mentioned the different albums, the transportation issues and et cetera.
Alyn,
Exactly my thoughts.
Mike
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
OK, fair enough. I have a 2008 Scott Specialized that I was using to document CV for an analysis I'm doing and I wrote the FV on each page for grins. I never thought there would be a use for it, but apparently there is, so here goes:
The total FV for 1940 through 1999 (Scott 859 through 3369, inclusive, major catalog numbers only) is: $806.231. The odd fraction is due to 1/2c and 1/4c Liberty Issue stamps and fractional Transportation coil values. All I had to do was add up the totals from each page. I still fail to see the usefulness for such a number, but there it is. Enjoy!
Lars
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
06 Oct 2014
09:09:41pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"TuskenRaider":
Keep up with all that wood-chopping and we'll soon have to call you
"Ken No Pines". Time to reduce your environmental footprint, fella.
Your comments do indeed pass over everyone's head and
are not accepted at "face value". Check out the typical profile
of a Stamporama member and you'll soon understand
that only "TuskenRaider" and "DRYER" have a
sense of humour in this day-the-laughter-died stamp club.
Quit playing softball in a hardball league, Ken, and get with the programme.
John Derry, who's still counting the angels dancing on that pinhead
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"Check out the typical profile
of a Stamporama member and you'll soon understand
that only "TuskenRaider" and "DRYER" have a
sense of humour in this day-the-laughter-died stamp club. "
Interesting comment.
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
keeping with the Tall Pines metaphor, Dryer has, as his moniker suggests, the driest wit the Lord allows, so dry that Ken might use it for kindling and keep the pines (not the pins, John's using those) standing for the angels on which to alight
I have wandered far from the thread, and Bobby might mercifully delete this and save many from unnecessary pain.
I found that number, Lars, interesting. That 50-year output seems, if memory serves, to approximate the average two-year output of USPS offerings for ALL stamps, stationary, etc., issued these days.
David
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07 Oct 2014
09:25:07am
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Ken "pines" about felled trees, John's wit gets "drier", and David begins again with the "groaners".... Oh, that someone would just shoot me!!!!
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07 Oct 2014
09:50:23am
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"Oh, that someone would just shoot me!!!!"
Ok, if you insist!
Roy
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
That's just to cute and clever, Roy.
Mike
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"I found that number, Lars, interesting."
I believe I have provided the caveats, but it bears repeating: That is for exactly ONE of every major catalog number. In some cases, like the Looney Tunes issues, that means an ENTIRE pane AND another one with the 10th stamp without die cut. That's 20 stamps for each Looney Tunes issue. That also includes the total face value of the Legends of the West pane AND a complete pane with the error cowboy. Sometimes the major catalog number is for a booklet single, but the album you are evaluating may display entire panes. The major cat number for coils is typically a single stamp, but they are often presented in pairs (or more) in albums. Most importantly, it includes all of the Priority and Express Mail stamps (which total $77.75). That's almost 10% of the total in just those 11 stamps, so it's very important to know if they are in definitives or BOB if you are going to use that number.
David, that's 60 years, not 50 years.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
07 Oct 2014
01:12:57pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Thanks, Roy, I needed that. BTW, which photo editing program do you use? Outstanding work on the picture!
Bobby
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07 Oct 2014
02:24:59pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
"which photo editing program do you use?"
Gimp 2.6 (free download)
Takes a little getting used to a few arcane menu selections, but very powerful.
Roy
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Hi Everyone;
I never use pine, it causes too much creasote, which can lead to a chimney fire. Only use Oak, and Maple, and only paper dry.
I have a US Forest Service permit to harvest firewood, as per their pain-in-the-ass, chicken-crap rules. their rules allow harvest of any tree flat on the ground, usually due to storms. A live tree that is a 'leaner' due to a storm that got hung up in another tree will get you a big fine or jail. They also allow harvest of standing dead wood. The permit is $20 for 5 cord of wood, and is good for one year, and can be renewed before the year is up, for an additional 5 cord. And if you ever sell or give away one stick you damn sure will go to Federal Prison. They have leases for folks that are cord-wood loggers, and leases for lumber-loggers. The forest service people play real hardball up here in Michigan.
My stove makes a good warmer to keep my food warm as I enjoy eating some critter meat that was dumb enough to wander within range of my 357 Magnum. I once shot a chipmunk at over 30 feet away, I don't eat those but they eat my kitty's food. The trick with a powerful handgun is to learn to allow for the muzzle flip when you aim. Kinda like Kentucky windage.
I changed my discussion username, because Tall Pines didn't reflect my backwoods wildman ways, so I picked the TuskenRaider, because it more reflected my surly personality.
@ Dryer;
So there John Derry, I actually help the forest by cleaning up all the wood on the forest floor, so a wildfire will have less fuel and do less damage. I often take wood that is dead that others won't take, because it has been on the ground for several years and has lost some heat value, or is kinda small stuff.
I call this junk wood, and pile and dry it out, to use for Oct-Nov, and Mar-Apr. My cabin is small and good firewood is too hot for this time of year. I only use good firewood when it is below +20F- thru - -20F.
Well gotta go kill some lunch, gettin kinda hungery for some nice bloody meat.
TuskenRaider
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Ken Tall Pines - I find that for smaller critters ( we call them varmints down here) that using 38 special hollow points in my 357 gives me a bit more reliable accuracy. Even in Kentucky we don't apply windage unless we have to. It also makes a lot less noise. If noise is not an issue, I would just grab my mini-14 (long range) or 20 gauge (short range).
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
OMG shooting critters, comparing ammo, chopping trees . . . Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please? (Just teasing you fellas!)
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Clearly, Stamporama should seek affiliation with the National Rifle Association and proclaim the organization a mercenary militia.
boB
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"Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please?"
That's a great idea, Theresa! I wonder if we can get You Tube clips down the right side of the screen from Die Hard, Terminator, Lethal Weapon, and Pulp Fiction.
Lars
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
Hi Militiamen;
@ Lars;
Your right, I don't care for the noise and don't do much like target shooting. Besides it's much more realistic to shoot a live target like a varmint than a beer can. Prefer 38 special, 125 grain hollow point for everything up to and including large raccoons.
When I'm far away from the cabin harvesting wood, or it is close to nightfall and especially an after dark bonfire on a full moon night, I prefer 357, 156 grain soft nose lead. A 38 special will confuse a large predator for a few seconds and second or third round will sufficiently get his attention to pi$$ him off, and make him want to party with ya.
I have no intention of going out after bear, they are notorious for circling back on their track when they sense danger, and then you are the hunted.
Even deer will do this. If you are tracking one at the bottom of a ridge, turn around and go back to before the ridge. Climb the ridge all the way to the top, keep your eyes on the top of the ridge and the side below you. They do this so if they are followed, they get a short warning, by watching their own tracks.
Despite this lifestyle, I would not want to live anywhere else, just too exciting to see a very large cougar in your back yard 100 feet from where you split wood. They always come from behind you so watch your back.
Well time for some cabin grub (homemade chili).
TuskenRaider
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re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
I get confused enough when considering perfs 10x11 vs 12.5x10. all this 38 special perfs and 35791113 stuff just .... i don't know. But then, what really got me...
"Well time for some cabin grub"
with all the game and varmints, do you really need to eat grubs, TuskenAntlers?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 Oct 2014
03:29:27pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
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04:27:22pm
re: Total face value of all U.S. postage stamps?
""Mods can we add a topic called "TESTOSTERONE ZONE" ????? Please?""
We already have that. It's called the "Steam Room".
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