Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371143935723
If this is not the appropriate topic, please let me know. Especially given the Mystic Stamp reward on a certain group of these stamps.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
01:01:56pm
Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole! It just screams SCAM!
Login to Like
this post
My thoughts exactly. That's exactly what it screamed to me as well.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
he lists it as CV of $425. Scott lists it at $170,000 in 2001 catalogue, and a nice example sold for $850,000 plus commission in 2007: http://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/heritage-re-enters-philatelic-market-with-825-000-inverted-jenny-sale.s?releaseId=1471
something is amiss
Login to Like
this post
The stamp is an obvious fake (lithographed, not engraved).
All of the inverted Jennys in existence (except for a few missing - see the Mystic statement about those) have documentation and history of ownership. No genuine inverted Jenny would be offered for sale/auction without fanfare, or without a certificate of authenticity.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I reported it to eBay as it is a replica and is not noted as such in the item description.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks Michael. I knew a real philatelist would be able to spot what makes up a fake. That brings me to my next question, how can you tell lithographed as opposed to engraved?
I'm still learning how to spot those type of things.
Login to Like
this post
I reported this listing to Stamp Smarter a few minutes ago.
Login to Like
this post
Engraved stamps have crisp, sharp lines printed from the metal plates. Also, the color is wrong on the fake stamp and the paper is too "new".
Several years ago, crude facsimiles of the C3a were printed and came onto the market. This one looks like one of those. eBay was flooded with them when they first came out, and some people were stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars for them.
The bottom line is this - do not purchase a stamp that is rare, or a stamp that has a high catalog value unless that stamp has a certificate of authenticity. If it doesn't have a certificate, ask the seller to obtain one. If the seller is unwilling, then that's your clue.
Login to Like
this post
Wow! So much to learn, and one can't get in trouble if they don't know what to look for. Any recommended reading, that would help me start picking out some of these things and learn more about the art of philately. Thanks again Michael for your detailed information, it's really an education.
Login to Like
this post
Thanks for all the info...good stuff
Login to Like
this post
Stan, good question. Actually, you are doing reading right now. Feel free to do more. Follow your interests. So, for instance, if you want to understand the difference between litho and engraving, look for a primer on stamp printing. LN Williams, although he's dry as year old kindling, is worth a look. Once you know the difference, and can tell it, one looks in Scott or other catalogue to see HOW the stamp was printed.
the other thing is your common sense. Know the value of the thing. If it's $100,000 CV (and this is 8 X that), you will NOT, i repeat NOT, get it for $42.05 plus 1.99 shipping.
and there's always a wealth of information here; read and follow your own interests.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Read the expansive introduction to the Scott catalogs (if you have Scott). There is alot of good information, with illustrations, on most aspects of a stamp contained in it. Also, the back of the Scott catalog contains a pretty good identifier for stamps from many difficult countries. Scott over the past couple of years also is doing a great job of finally adding great pictures in the country listings to help identify various printing types. The catalog is much more than just a price list.
Login to Like
this post
I would simply add that it pays to do your "due diligence" on ANYTHING with a high CV.
For me, anything with a CV of $1000 or more MUST come with a cert. I can't imagine trying to sell something myself that I truly believed was legit and listed for over $1000 without getting a cert first.
Items in the $100 to $999 range are more of a challenge. There are many legit examples for sale and many fakes as well. Being patient and watching several auctions helps. Knowing what to watch for helps, too. For example, 315 has a CV of $210 MH and $1250 used. Scott warns: "Beware of example of 304 with perforations removed". Luckily, 304 has a CV of $60 MH and $2.25 used. It would be VERY risky to cut the perf off of a $60 stamp in hopes of faking a $210 stamp, but you could trim hundreds of used 304s in hopes of selling ONE fake used 315. In fact, the fake I would watch out for most in this case would be the used 304 with jumbo margins and a light cancel that had the perfs removed, the cancel cleaned, and regummed.
Items in the $10 to $100 range are a special case. Often it is not cost effective to send such an item off for a cert. The scammers know this. I see more fakes in this price range than any other. One of the most common scams is to buy a large quantity of common stamps like 599 (20 cents used) and screen them for approximation with 599A ($17.50 used). The scammers sell them as 599A with a full money-back guarantee, but they won't pay for the cert fee is it's bogus and you have to pay for shipping both ways. Even if HALF of their customers returned their stamps, they would still make a tidy profit.
In a nutshell: Learn more and pay less!
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Just checked - someone bid on this. Sad.
Login to Like
this post
This is sad, indeed. Someone will be fleeced. If eBay hadn't closed down their Enhanced Member Reporting System, this might have been avoided.
Login to Like
this post
Very sad, and glad it's not me. This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified.
SOR and good sense kept me from losing money on this item. Thanks.
Login to Like
this post
Yes, it is sad that someone is going to get ripped off. However, what was that person's motives? To get a stamp worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a dime? That is greed. In the collecting and investing world it is always stated to learn what you are doing before you start. If you want to collect stamps, learn the hobby. Fantastic "bargains" can be found everywhere. The street corner can be a wonderful place for bargain hunters. Want to buy that "ROLEX" watch for $25? They will sell you one. By the time you get the watch home, the "R" and "X" will fall off the dial and you'll have an "ole".
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
StanC said, "This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified."
Since the bidder bid, I seriously doubt that he knows about certification. If he did, he never would have bid in the first place.
The knowledge that the average non-collector has about stamps boils down to this: if they haven't seen a particular stamp before, they either assume that it's valuable, or assume that stamps have no value except as colured pieces of paper for children. Sadly, many collectors themselves are unaware of the nuances of stamp collecting and don't bother to educate themselves.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
I'm glad I decided to get my education before jumping in and buying stamps. Bob, Michael, and Bobby thanks for all your help with my education.
I've looked up L. N. Williams and am going to try to find his book, "Fundamentals of Philately". It looks like it might be the best textbook for learning the fundamentals.
Thanks again to everyone who is helping me.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
we're lucky that the seller lists the stamp at $425 and not the real value of $750,000,or else there might be more bids.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I wondered how the seller got that $425 amount to begin with. (By the way, I tried to contact the seller via the eBay channel, and questioned the listing. Not surprisingly, I never got a reply.) 
Login to Like
this post
Hi everyone;
For the benefit of beginners at buying stamps online:
Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot.
If the deal was real good, favorite that seller, and add a copy of your opinion of the lot you bought, to the favorite record, for future reference, on later purchases. Keep several of these favorite sellers along with your critiques, of their material for reference.
eBay is rife with scammers and crooks for those with minimal experience at spotting scams. Never by from China unless you know them well from SOR.
Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines
Login to Like
this post
"Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot."
I disagree. I bought my 5c 2nd Bureau imperf on eBay, and then got a cert. Genuine. Bought all my Zeps except C14 on eBay. Bought all high dollar Columbians on eBay. Bought #1 and #2 on eBay. Bought #39 on eBay. Bought #122 on eBay. Genuine. Genuine. Genuine. ...
Had to return a few, though, but those were a vast minority, and for the prices I paid, I'm very pleased. You just really need to research a LOT to know what kind of scams to watch out for.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
I've been buying stamps, covers, and postcards on eBay for at least 15 years, with only two problems, both easily and satisfactorily resolved. In fact, I can recall only two purchases which went badly, and neither of them had anything to do with eBay! I doubt that there are any more "scammers and crooks" on eBay than in any other sector of retail sales, and I have no doubt that there are just as many among eBay buyers.
One of the best postal history dealers on the planet sells on eBay, and happens to — generously — host Stamporama. That's Roy Lingen.
The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well. If I have any doubts about a lot, or a dealer, I send them a message with pointed questions. If I don't like the answer, or have to wait too long for it, I generally don't buy. I do wish that eBay would do more to protect us buyers, but I also hope for world peace, naive person that I am.
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
"The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well."
Well said! I have encountered the same percentage of dicey individuals on BidStart as eBay, and BOTH of those venues had a lower percentage of shady characters than the local stamp bourse! If I have my doubts, I won't hesitate to ask for a higher resolution scan, and for higher CV items, I generally get what I ask for. If not, that tells me all I need to know.
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi everyone;
Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.
If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do. Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you.
You admit that even you had to return some. Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times, and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader.
It was just a good road map for buying on eBay, if you have never purchased there and are a bit new to stamp collecting. Would you sent your 15 year old to the bank to negotiate a home loan? 
Keep on readin
Ken Tall Pines
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Yes I have had a major loss on Stamporama...so it can happen on all sites!!!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi everyone;
@ bobstamp & larsdog; right back at ya
If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.
It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby.
Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines
PS; Just as an after thought, 2 years ago I was sent an e-mail congratulating me on the winning bid for a widescreen TV and some other expensive item. They totaled $700.00. I e-mailed spoof@ebay.com and informed them that I did not live in Malaysia, and did not buy those items. They canceled the sales, and I had to change all my passwords. I also had to change my mailing address back to Michigan, because that hacked my account and changed my mailing address.
Login to Like
this post
"Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.
If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do."
Oh, please, master, enlighten us exactly HOW we are to parse such a nuanced meaning from:
"Hi everyone;
Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps..."
Sure sounds like you are pontificating to the masses and not the newbies (which, I assume, are relatives of your newbees), but then again, be wary of assumptions, eh?
"Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you."
I was right! Assuming things is wrong. Perhaps assuming everyone understands your nuanced meaning, especially when there is no evidence of nuance at all, is a bit presumptuous.
"You admit that even you had to return some."
Not many, but a few. One was faults not visible in the scan. On another occasion the seller sent me something different than the image on the listing. Once I even got a pre-cert from William Weiss (he looked at the eBay listing and said it looked legit), but when I won the auction and sent the stamp to Mr. Weiss, he said it was an altered proof, so I sent it back to the seller for a refund.
However, a similar ratio of returns happened at StampWants (and later BidStart) and Stamps2Go. In fact, I have cultivated a relationship with a few dealers that provide me with some special position pieces and I've had to send one back for replacement because of insufficient margins. It's not an unexpected result when the buyer is unable to visually inspect the item in person before the sale.
"Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times"
I currently have 1,138 Feedbacks as a buyer on eBay, so I have about 10 times more experience than you.
"and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader."
If your implication is that I had to return a few items because my reading skills are inferior to yours, I would take issue with that claim. In fact, all I can deduce from your posts is that you come across as an arrogant snob. I, for one, will not be intimidated by such bluster.
You might get away with such poor manners with others, but I will call you out every time. Count on it.
Lars
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
"If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.
It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby."
That is actually an interesting question. Hopefully I don't do your question an injustice by distilling it down to:
Where have you personally been burned the worst in a philatelic transaction?
a) eBay
b) Non eBay stamp venue (StampWants/BidStart, Stamps2Go, Stamporama, etc.)
c) other online venue
d) stamp bourse at a stamp show and/or meeting
e) auction house
f) private online transaction
g) private in person transaction
h) other
My answer is (b), but I had someone ALMOST pull a fast one on me at a show that would have been much worse.
It would be interesting to see what other people's experience has been.
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Had a table at a stamp bourse. A buyer took my binder of new issues that I was selling. He was stopped by security as he was heading out the door. I got lucky.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
h) Other — In the 1980s, I had a wild hair and decided to start selling approvals. I got a big cheque in the mail for several mint Canada I had sent to a buyer in Montreal, with a want list. I sent a second, more expensive batch of stamps and waited for a cheque. And waited. And waited. Several months later I found his name in a list of philatelic deadbeats.
Bob
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Had those problems too with approval sales. That list was a pretty good tool.
Login to Like
this post
Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!
Login to Like
this post
I'm sure if I got a piece of perfed selvedge, a red and blue crayon, and drew the invert Jenny stamp on it, I could sell it for a $1000 on eBay.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I now know that I don't know enough to purchase stamps on eBay as a beginner. I'm learning that there are nuances to philately that I need to learn in order to be a more sophisticated buyer. Everyone's answer has helped point me in the right direction to learn what I don't know.
Thanks Lars, Ken, Bob, Philatelia, Michael, and others who have helped with my education. This education is a lot cheaper than learning the hard way.
Stan
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Stan, I really don't think you have a thing to worry about if you decide to try eBay. It's just a matter of registering, arranging your preference for payments, reading listings carefully, checking the feedback records of sellers, and, at first, buying inexpensive lots.
Bob
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Philatelia said, "Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!"
Reminds me that while some buyers spend money like they're Arab oil sheiks, others are, well, miserly! When I was selling approvals a mailing was returned, intact. It included some nice mint Canadian stamps ranging in price from a couple of dollars to $10, and was based on the collector's want list. Included with the returns was this memorable note:
"If I had $10 to spend, I certainly wouldn't spend it on stamps!"
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I wonder if there really is two bids, as the bidders are both private bidders names are private.
No way to see if the seller is making it look like there are bids.
I would not touch this with a 10 foot pole.
I have made a number of purchases ebay and have never had a problem.
As a seller I was taken twice, both claim they never received the items.
Doug
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Stan, I would NOT discourage you from bidding on eBay or anywhere else, even as a beginner. I would discourage you from bidding lots of money or often until you understood stamps and the auction process well. In the meantime, success and, especially, failure help to teach us. Generating $2 and $3 failures is actually a good thing. It's the $100 and $1000 failures that will ruin us
David
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
According to the eBay app on my iPad, there are two bidders and the high bidder is O***3 with 309 feedback. But, I guess this person has more money than sense. 
I'm just glad I have SOR, to turn to when I have a question about stamps and stamp collecting.
Stan
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Just to share my own experience with eBay, over the last 14 years I've made over 1,500 stamp purchases on eBay, including 3 purchases of (what for me are) "high-end" stamps: a selling price of over $1000 each. I've never had a bad experience yet--knock on wood!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Stan,
I exercise caution if the stamp is more than $5 or Scott Specialized has a note to beware of fakes, regardless of price. If you have doubts, feel free to air them here!
Douglas,
High end for me is over $100. I haven't spent $1000 on a stamp yet, but I fear I will have to on one or more of the 3 stamps I'm missing.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
Lars, when I crossed that $1000 threshold, I knew I was a goner!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I would never spend $1,000 on a stamp! You guys are crazy! Now, if you had spent that amount on a cover, that would be perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn't spend that amount on a cover? I mean, there's food, and a roof over your head, and clothing, and I suppose your children may need food (at least in small amounts, as long as they don't get an allowance), but postal history is the very stuff of life, and therefore must be purchased regardless of the cost! And that's what I intend to tell my wife some day. About last year's purchase of this cover. For U.S. $800. When I've figured out how to pay for it.
The cover was posted by a member of General Pershing's command, from Columbus, New Mexico, during the Pershing Punitive Expedition into Mexico, in search of the Mexican bandit/revolutionary, Pancho Villa, who had attacked Columbus earlier that year. My Grandfather Robert L. Ingraham was a member of the New York State National Guard, which had been federalized and sent to the Mexico-Texas border in support of Pershing's expedition.
Bob
P.S. I rather doubt that I will ever again buy such an expensive cover (or stamp). But who knows...
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Bob,
That cover is worth every penny! As for telling your wife about it someday, I'm reminded of the story about Jack Benny's nightmare: that, after he died, his wife would sell his violin for what he told her he paid for it.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
08:53:45pm
Regarding all the comments about buying on eBay, please allow me to share some of the comments I make on our own website which lists our weekly eBay auctions:
"{In response to hypothetical questions about buying from us through eBay}
"I don't like dealing with eBay".
When you are buying from us on eBay, you are not "dealing with eBay". That's just the place where your bids are recorded. At the end of the auction (if you are the high bidder), you will be dealing directly with us. You will get the same friendly emails notifying you of your win that you get from your Cover Box orders. We'll combine any other purchases for shipping and do whatever else we can to make adding to your collection easy -- whether it's from our weekly eBay auctions, or from our fixed price listings. "
eBay is a venue. If you know who you are dealing with, either from dealing outside eBay, or because you tested them with a small purchase and got to know them (which hundreds of new customers have done with us), you are dealing with that person, regardless of whether it is through eBay, at the local bourse, or through their retail website.
I believe it is a serious mistake to treat eBay as a seller, rather than as a venue where thousands of sellers congregate. I mean, would you walk into a giant flea market and take the word of every seller there about what they were selling, or buy things for big dollar amounts (whatever that amount is to you) that you didn't truly understand on your own? Not likely.
And Bob, thank you for the lovely compliment.
Roy
eBay rlingen / current feedback rating 37,183
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:02:01pm
When it comes to stamps on ebay - I've never had troubles. In fact, I've had some sellers bend over backwards for me. When I was building my MNH DDR collection, I found two great sellers - bought year sets. Then I was able to ask them about other year sets. I had one seller that pulled a whole group of BIN auctions offline and I ended up getting them at about 40% discount of what he had requested for BIN. From there he was also able to find me specialties - imperfs, watermark changes, etc that are not found in most general DDR collections. He also gave me the name of another fella who could help me get some things he couldn't. The other fella I dealt with for DDR, because I want mine MNH (my cto's are separate), I emailed him about a few that had creases and asked if I could return them for replacement. They were slight creases that the average collector wouldn't even really notice, but I did. He told me to keep them, sell them or trade them and he sent me replacements no charge. For both of these fellows as well as the other two I dealt with for West Germany and Berlin, if I discovered any missing stamp in the lot, they all happily sent it with no questions. The one fella told me to go through the year lots that I had (which I bought over several months) and tally any that were missing or creased and just send him the list and he'd replace them. Another fella asked me to return them for replacement. I received his replacement the day after I posted his back which was two days after I contacted him (Canada to Germany!).
If I have questions about stamps, I always contact the seller. If I find the seller to be arrogant, I just stop looking at their material. I tend to buy my German State materials in lots. Even though I get duplicates, it all evens out because there will be some that are spacefillers, other that are perfect, others with various cancels. So I'm a happy camper. And I always find that with only a few exceptions, when the sellers see what I am buying, they significantly reduce the "combined postage". I've even had some sent registered post and I paid like $5 for postage which is basically free postage. Others have their postal fees listed and when they see that I'm buying several lots, they'll just send them postage free.
It's rare for me to only buy one stamp or several single stamps from a seller, but I've never been disappointed.
My pocketbook is small, but I keep my eyes out for the good deals and I've managed to build a collection that if bought in small sections would require deep pockets. I like to make the seller know I truly appreciate their meeting me halfway on things. I recently bought a beautiful gem as some of you know. I happened to have won two of his other auctions and I noticed that almost all his BINs also had OBO, except for THAT particular stamp. So I messaged him and mentioned that and asked him if he would take an OBO, would he accept X. He got back to me and said he couldn't take anything less than X which was about $25 more than my offer, so I said "you've got yourself a deal." He sent everything registered post no cost.
I do agree, if you're new to buying - why bother going for the high end stuff? Enjoy your collection. I indulge once in a while and I know how to make a good deal with someone and I've been very pleased with pretty much every transaction, I always come out on the high end of things and I always double check by message if the person accepts returns (even when they specifically note on their page that there are no returns) - if I'm paying X for something and I get it and find it has a thin that was not mentioned, you didn't sell me what you advertised. Thus far - I've had no problems (as mentioned above re: the creases).
The ONLY place I've ever been burned was at a bourse. Go figure!
Kelly
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:10:52pm
Roy -
My first deal with you and Debbie was when you were still doing the stamp lots. I bought a worldwide boxlot from you separated into *really* old envelopes. The message from Debbie said "I have no idea what's in here, have fun!" I found a few nice little surprises in that lot. Shortly after that you went solely to covers, so that was quite a long time ago but boy I was in heaven when I got that lot 
Some have gone on to other homes and some hold some pretty places in my collection.
Thanks 
Login to Like
this post
I have really enjoyed the aside, but back to the auction, it closed for $100. The interesting thing is to look at the bid history. Two bids for exactly $100 and a retracted bid for $100! It sure looks like they couldn't get anyone to nibble on that fake. Looks like shill bidding to me.
Lars
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
The auction actually closed before it's scheduled time. So I am glad that I asked the question, and thank SOR for helping learn a little more about collecting. Thanks again.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Speculation:
Now, if the buyer thinks that the seller didn't know the rarity of the item (the seller is in Spain), the buyer will be all giddy when the fake stamp is received, and will contact an auction house to sell it for riches beyond imagination...until the buyer gets educated.
If the seller is out to dupe the buyer (obviously), then the buyer can return the favor by receiving the fake stamp and reporting to eBay that the item received is not as described. eBay will refund the money to the buyer.
If the buyer just doesn't know, then the buyer will put the stamp in the collection, and it will sit there until...
Hopefully, however, some people not involved in the transaction learned a lesson from this example of greed in the philatelic marketplace.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Michael,
I think your premise is based on the unwarranted assumption that there actually were any bona fide bidders. If you look at the bid details for that auction, they are all consistent with shill bidders, so maybe they were no actual bidders and the seller gained nothing. I can only hope so!
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
It was just speculation.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks, everyone, for a very interesting and entertaining thread !
Login to Like
this post
I have purchased on Ebay thousands of times. While I agree there are crooks out there the vast majority of sellers are not. I have no problem buying on Ebay. I have had sellers make honest mistakes on items that I could not detect until I was able to check a watermark or something like that. They always offered a refund. This seller does not represent the average honest seller on Ebay.
Login to Like
this post
Knowing the value of this stamp, this seems too good to be true. No gum really worries me. I know caveat emptor. I've not bid, but just curious what others think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371143935723
If this is not the appropriate topic, please let me know. Especially given the Mystic Stamp reward on a certain group of these stamps.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
17 Sep 2014
01:01:56pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole! It just screams SCAM!
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
My thoughts exactly. That's exactly what it screamed to me as well.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
he lists it as CV of $425. Scott lists it at $170,000 in 2001 catalogue, and a nice example sold for $850,000 plus commission in 2007: http://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/heritage-re-enters-philatelic-market-with-825-000-inverted-jenny-sale.s?releaseId=1471
something is amiss
Login to Like
this post
03:38:35pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
The stamp is an obvious fake (lithographed, not engraved).
All of the inverted Jennys in existence (except for a few missing - see the Mystic statement about those) have documentation and history of ownership. No genuine inverted Jenny would be offered for sale/auction without fanfare, or without a certificate of authenticity.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
03:41:35pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I reported it to eBay as it is a replica and is not noted as such in the item description.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Thanks Michael. I knew a real philatelist would be able to spot what makes up a fake. That brings me to my next question, how can you tell lithographed as opposed to engraved?
I'm still learning how to spot those type of things.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I reported this listing to Stamp Smarter a few minutes ago.
Login to Like
this post
03:59:02pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Engraved stamps have crisp, sharp lines printed from the metal plates. Also, the color is wrong on the fake stamp and the paper is too "new".
Several years ago, crude facsimiles of the C3a were printed and came onto the market. This one looks like one of those. eBay was flooded with them when they first came out, and some people were stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars for them.
The bottom line is this - do not purchase a stamp that is rare, or a stamp that has a high catalog value unless that stamp has a certificate of authenticity. If it doesn't have a certificate, ask the seller to obtain one. If the seller is unwilling, then that's your clue.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Wow! So much to learn, and one can't get in trouble if they don't know what to look for. Any recommended reading, that would help me start picking out some of these things and learn more about the art of philately. Thanks again Michael for your detailed information, it's really an education.
Login to Like
this post
05:15:17pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Thanks for all the info...good stuff
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Stan, good question. Actually, you are doing reading right now. Feel free to do more. Follow your interests. So, for instance, if you want to understand the difference between litho and engraving, look for a primer on stamp printing. LN Williams, although he's dry as year old kindling, is worth a look. Once you know the difference, and can tell it, one looks in Scott or other catalogue to see HOW the stamp was printed.
the other thing is your common sense. Know the value of the thing. If it's $100,000 CV (and this is 8 X that), you will NOT, i repeat NOT, get it for $42.05 plus 1.99 shipping.
and there's always a wealth of information here; read and follow your own interests.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
12:24:12am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Read the expansive introduction to the Scott catalogs (if you have Scott). There is alot of good information, with illustrations, on most aspects of a stamp contained in it. Also, the back of the Scott catalog contains a pretty good identifier for stamps from many difficult countries. Scott over the past couple of years also is doing a great job of finally adding great pictures in the country listings to help identify various printing types. The catalog is much more than just a price list.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I would simply add that it pays to do your "due diligence" on ANYTHING with a high CV.
For me, anything with a CV of $1000 or more MUST come with a cert. I can't imagine trying to sell something myself that I truly believed was legit and listed for over $1000 without getting a cert first.
Items in the $100 to $999 range are more of a challenge. There are many legit examples for sale and many fakes as well. Being patient and watching several auctions helps. Knowing what to watch for helps, too. For example, 315 has a CV of $210 MH and $1250 used. Scott warns: "Beware of example of 304 with perforations removed". Luckily, 304 has a CV of $60 MH and $2.25 used. It would be VERY risky to cut the perf off of a $60 stamp in hopes of faking a $210 stamp, but you could trim hundreds of used 304s in hopes of selling ONE fake used 315. In fact, the fake I would watch out for most in this case would be the used 304 with jumbo margins and a light cancel that had the perfs removed, the cancel cleaned, and regummed.
Items in the $10 to $100 range are a special case. Often it is not cost effective to send such an item off for a cert. The scammers know this. I see more fakes in this price range than any other. One of the most common scams is to buy a large quantity of common stamps like 599 (20 cents used) and screen them for approximation with 599A ($17.50 used). The scammers sell them as 599A with a full money-back guarantee, but they won't pay for the cert fee is it's bogus and you have to pay for shipping both ways. Even if HALF of their customers returned their stamps, they would still make a tidy profit.
In a nutshell: Learn more and pay less!
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Just checked - someone bid on this. Sad.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
This is sad, indeed. Someone will be fleeced. If eBay hadn't closed down their Enhanced Member Reporting System, this might have been avoided.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Very sad, and glad it's not me. This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified.
SOR and good sense kept me from losing money on this item. Thanks.
Login to Like
this post
12:20:41pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Yes, it is sad that someone is going to get ripped off. However, what was that person's motives? To get a stamp worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a dime? That is greed. In the collecting and investing world it is always stated to learn what you are doing before you start. If you want to collect stamps, learn the hobby. Fantastic "bargains" can be found everywhere. The street corner can be a wonderful place for bargain hunters. Want to buy that "ROLEX" watch for $25? They will sell you one. By the time you get the watch home, the "R" and "X" will fall off the dial and you'll have an "ole".
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
StanC said, "This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified."
Since the bidder bid, I seriously doubt that he knows about certification. If he did, he never would have bid in the first place.
The knowledge that the average non-collector has about stamps boils down to this: if they haven't seen a particular stamp before, they either assume that it's valuable, or assume that stamps have no value except as colured pieces of paper for children. Sadly, many collectors themselves are unaware of the nuances of stamp collecting and don't bother to educate themselves.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I'm glad I decided to get my education before jumping in and buying stamps. Bob, Michael, and Bobby thanks for all your help with my education.
I've looked up L. N. Williams and am going to try to find his book, "Fundamentals of Philately". It looks like it might be the best textbook for learning the fundamentals.
Thanks again to everyone who is helping me.
Stan
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
we're lucky that the seller lists the stamp at $425 and not the real value of $750,000,or else there might be more bids.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I wondered how the seller got that $425 amount to begin with. (By the way, I tried to contact the seller via the eBay channel, and questioned the listing. Not surprisingly, I never got a reply.)
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Hi everyone;
For the benefit of beginners at buying stamps online:
Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot.
If the deal was real good, favorite that seller, and add a copy of your opinion of the lot you bought, to the favorite record, for future reference, on later purchases. Keep several of these favorite sellers along with your critiques, of their material for reference.
eBay is rife with scammers and crooks for those with minimal experience at spotting scams. Never by from China unless you know them well from SOR.
Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
"Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot."
I disagree. I bought my 5c 2nd Bureau imperf on eBay, and then got a cert. Genuine. Bought all my Zeps except C14 on eBay. Bought all high dollar Columbians on eBay. Bought #1 and #2 on eBay. Bought #39 on eBay. Bought #122 on eBay. Genuine. Genuine. Genuine. ...
Had to return a few, though, but those were a vast minority, and for the prices I paid, I'm very pleased. You just really need to research a LOT to know what kind of scams to watch out for.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I've been buying stamps, covers, and postcards on eBay for at least 15 years, with only two problems, both easily and satisfactorily resolved. In fact, I can recall only two purchases which went badly, and neither of them had anything to do with eBay! I doubt that there are any more "scammers and crooks" on eBay than in any other sector of retail sales, and I have no doubt that there are just as many among eBay buyers.
One of the best postal history dealers on the planet sells on eBay, and happens to — generously — host Stamporama. That's Roy Lingen.
The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well. If I have any doubts about a lot, or a dealer, I send them a message with pointed questions. If I don't like the answer, or have to wait too long for it, I generally don't buy. I do wish that eBay would do more to protect us buyers, but I also hope for world peace, naive person that I am.
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
"The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well."
Well said! I have encountered the same percentage of dicey individuals on BidStart as eBay, and BOTH of those venues had a lower percentage of shady characters than the local stamp bourse! If I have my doubts, I won't hesitate to ask for a higher resolution scan, and for higher CV items, I generally get what I ask for. If not, that tells me all I need to know.
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Hi everyone;
Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.
If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do. Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you.
You admit that even you had to return some. Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times, and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader.
It was just a good road map for buying on eBay, if you have never purchased there and are a bit new to stamp collecting. Would you sent your 15 year old to the bank to negotiate a home loan?
Keep on readin
Ken Tall Pines
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
10:13:41pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Yes I have had a major loss on Stamporama...so it can happen on all sites!!!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Hi everyone;
@ bobstamp & larsdog; right back at ya
If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.
It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby.
Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines
PS; Just as an after thought, 2 years ago I was sent an e-mail congratulating me on the winning bid for a widescreen TV and some other expensive item. They totaled $700.00. I e-mailed spoof@ebay.com and informed them that I did not live in Malaysia, and did not buy those items. They canceled the sales, and I had to change all my passwords. I also had to change my mailing address back to Michigan, because that hacked my account and changed my mailing address.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
"Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.
If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do."
Oh, please, master, enlighten us exactly HOW we are to parse such a nuanced meaning from:
"Hi everyone;
Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps..."
Sure sounds like you are pontificating to the masses and not the newbies (which, I assume, are relatives of your newbees), but then again, be wary of assumptions, eh?
"Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you."
I was right! Assuming things is wrong. Perhaps assuming everyone understands your nuanced meaning, especially when there is no evidence of nuance at all, is a bit presumptuous.
"You admit that even you had to return some."
Not many, but a few. One was faults not visible in the scan. On another occasion the seller sent me something different than the image on the listing. Once I even got a pre-cert from William Weiss (he looked at the eBay listing and said it looked legit), but when I won the auction and sent the stamp to Mr. Weiss, he said it was an altered proof, so I sent it back to the seller for a refund.
However, a similar ratio of returns happened at StampWants (and later BidStart) and Stamps2Go. In fact, I have cultivated a relationship with a few dealers that provide me with some special position pieces and I've had to send one back for replacement because of insufficient margins. It's not an unexpected result when the buyer is unable to visually inspect the item in person before the sale.
"Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times"
I currently have 1,138 Feedbacks as a buyer on eBay, so I have about 10 times more experience than you.
"and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader."
If your implication is that I had to return a few items because my reading skills are inferior to yours, I would take issue with that claim. In fact, all I can deduce from your posts is that you come across as an arrogant snob. I, for one, will not be intimidated by such bluster.
You might get away with such poor manners with others, but I will call you out every time. Count on it.
Lars
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
"If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.
It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby."
That is actually an interesting question. Hopefully I don't do your question an injustice by distilling it down to:
Where have you personally been burned the worst in a philatelic transaction?
a) eBay
b) Non eBay stamp venue (StampWants/BidStart, Stamps2Go, Stamporama, etc.)
c) other online venue
d) stamp bourse at a stamp show and/or meeting
e) auction house
f) private online transaction
g) private in person transaction
h) other
My answer is (b), but I had someone ALMOST pull a fast one on me at a show that would have been much worse.
It would be interesting to see what other people's experience has been.
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
12:38:14am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Had a table at a stamp bourse. A buyer took my binder of new issues that I was selling. He was stopped by security as he was heading out the door. I got lucky.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
h) Other — In the 1980s, I had a wild hair and decided to start selling approvals. I got a big cheque in the mail for several mint Canada I had sent to a buyer in Montreal, with a want list. I sent a second, more expensive batch of stamps and waited for a cheque. And waited. And waited. Several months later I found his name in a list of philatelic deadbeats.
Bob
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
02:26:07am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Had those problems too with approval sales. That list was a pretty good tool.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!
Login to Like
this post
12:17:30pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I'm sure if I got a piece of perfed selvedge, a red and blue crayon, and drew the invert Jenny stamp on it, I could sell it for a $1000 on eBay.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I now know that I don't know enough to purchase stamps on eBay as a beginner. I'm learning that there are nuances to philately that I need to learn in order to be a more sophisticated buyer. Everyone's answer has helped point me in the right direction to learn what I don't know.
Thanks Lars, Ken, Bob, Philatelia, Michael, and others who have helped with my education. This education is a lot cheaper than learning the hard way.
Stan
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Stan, I really don't think you have a thing to worry about if you decide to try eBay. It's just a matter of registering, arranging your preference for payments, reading listings carefully, checking the feedback records of sellers, and, at first, buying inexpensive lots.
Bob
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Philatelia said, "Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!"
Reminds me that while some buyers spend money like they're Arab oil sheiks, others are, well, miserly! When I was selling approvals a mailing was returned, intact. It included some nice mint Canadian stamps ranging in price from a couple of dollars to $10, and was based on the collector's want list. Included with the returns was this memorable note:
"If I had $10 to spend, I certainly wouldn't spend it on stamps!"
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I wonder if there really is two bids, as the bidders are both private bidders names are private.
No way to see if the seller is making it look like there are bids.
I would not touch this with a 10 foot pole.
I have made a number of purchases ebay and have never had a problem.
As a seller I was taken twice, both claim they never received the items.
Doug
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Stan, I would NOT discourage you from bidding on eBay or anywhere else, even as a beginner. I would discourage you from bidding lots of money or often until you understood stamps and the auction process well. In the meantime, success and, especially, failure help to teach us. Generating $2 and $3 failures is actually a good thing. It's the $100 and $1000 failures that will ruin us
David
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
According to the eBay app on my iPad, there are two bidders and the high bidder is O***3 with 309 feedback. But, I guess this person has more money than sense.
I'm just glad I have SOR, to turn to when I have a question about stamps and stamp collecting.
Stan
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Just to share my own experience with eBay, over the last 14 years I've made over 1,500 stamp purchases on eBay, including 3 purchases of (what for me are) "high-end" stamps: a selling price of over $1000 each. I've never had a bad experience yet--knock on wood!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Stan,
I exercise caution if the stamp is more than $5 or Scott Specialized has a note to beware of fakes, regardless of price. If you have doubts, feel free to air them here!
Douglas,
High end for me is over $100. I haven't spent $1000 on a stamp yet, but I fear I will have to on one or more of the 3 stamps I'm missing.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Lars, when I crossed that $1000 threshold, I knew I was a goner!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I would never spend $1,000 on a stamp! You guys are crazy! Now, if you had spent that amount on a cover, that would be perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn't spend that amount on a cover? I mean, there's food, and a roof over your head, and clothing, and I suppose your children may need food (at least in small amounts, as long as they don't get an allowance), but postal history is the very stuff of life, and therefore must be purchased regardless of the cost! And that's what I intend to tell my wife some day. About last year's purchase of this cover. For U.S. $800. When I've figured out how to pay for it.
The cover was posted by a member of General Pershing's command, from Columbus, New Mexico, during the Pershing Punitive Expedition into Mexico, in search of the Mexican bandit/revolutionary, Pancho Villa, who had attacked Columbus earlier that year. My Grandfather Robert L. Ingraham was a member of the New York State National Guard, which had been federalized and sent to the Mexico-Texas border in support of Pershing's expedition.
Bob
P.S. I rather doubt that I will ever again buy such an expensive cover (or stamp). But who knows...
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Bob,
That cover is worth every penny! As for telling your wife about it someday, I'm reminded of the story about Jack Benny's nightmare: that, after he died, his wife would sell his violin for what he told her he paid for it.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
19 Sep 2014
08:53:45pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Regarding all the comments about buying on eBay, please allow me to share some of the comments I make on our own website which lists our weekly eBay auctions:
"{In response to hypothetical questions about buying from us through eBay}
"I don't like dealing with eBay".
When you are buying from us on eBay, you are not "dealing with eBay". That's just the place where your bids are recorded. At the end of the auction (if you are the high bidder), you will be dealing directly with us. You will get the same friendly emails notifying you of your win that you get from your Cover Box orders. We'll combine any other purchases for shipping and do whatever else we can to make adding to your collection easy -- whether it's from our weekly eBay auctions, or from our fixed price listings. "
eBay is a venue. If you know who you are dealing with, either from dealing outside eBay, or because you tested them with a small purchase and got to know them (which hundreds of new customers have done with us), you are dealing with that person, regardless of whether it is through eBay, at the local bourse, or through their retail website.
I believe it is a serious mistake to treat eBay as a seller, rather than as a venue where thousands of sellers congregate. I mean, would you walk into a giant flea market and take the word of every seller there about what they were selling, or buy things for big dollar amounts (whatever that amount is to you) that you didn't truly understand on your own? Not likely.
And Bob, thank you for the lovely compliment.
Roy
eBay rlingen / current feedback rating 37,183
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
19 Sep 2014
09:02:01pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
When it comes to stamps on ebay - I've never had troubles. In fact, I've had some sellers bend over backwards for me. When I was building my MNH DDR collection, I found two great sellers - bought year sets. Then I was able to ask them about other year sets. I had one seller that pulled a whole group of BIN auctions offline and I ended up getting them at about 40% discount of what he had requested for BIN. From there he was also able to find me specialties - imperfs, watermark changes, etc that are not found in most general DDR collections. He also gave me the name of another fella who could help me get some things he couldn't. The other fella I dealt with for DDR, because I want mine MNH (my cto's are separate), I emailed him about a few that had creases and asked if I could return them for replacement. They were slight creases that the average collector wouldn't even really notice, but I did. He told me to keep them, sell them or trade them and he sent me replacements no charge. For both of these fellows as well as the other two I dealt with for West Germany and Berlin, if I discovered any missing stamp in the lot, they all happily sent it with no questions. The one fella told me to go through the year lots that I had (which I bought over several months) and tally any that were missing or creased and just send him the list and he'd replace them. Another fella asked me to return them for replacement. I received his replacement the day after I posted his back which was two days after I contacted him (Canada to Germany!).
If I have questions about stamps, I always contact the seller. If I find the seller to be arrogant, I just stop looking at their material. I tend to buy my German State materials in lots. Even though I get duplicates, it all evens out because there will be some that are spacefillers, other that are perfect, others with various cancels. So I'm a happy camper. And I always find that with only a few exceptions, when the sellers see what I am buying, they significantly reduce the "combined postage". I've even had some sent registered post and I paid like $5 for postage which is basically free postage. Others have their postal fees listed and when they see that I'm buying several lots, they'll just send them postage free.
It's rare for me to only buy one stamp or several single stamps from a seller, but I've never been disappointed.
My pocketbook is small, but I keep my eyes out for the good deals and I've managed to build a collection that if bought in small sections would require deep pockets. I like to make the seller know I truly appreciate their meeting me halfway on things. I recently bought a beautiful gem as some of you know. I happened to have won two of his other auctions and I noticed that almost all his BINs also had OBO, except for THAT particular stamp. So I messaged him and mentioned that and asked him if he would take an OBO, would he accept X. He got back to me and said he couldn't take anything less than X which was about $25 more than my offer, so I said "you've got yourself a deal." He sent everything registered post no cost.
I do agree, if you're new to buying - why bother going for the high end stuff? Enjoy your collection. I indulge once in a while and I know how to make a good deal with someone and I've been very pleased with pretty much every transaction, I always come out on the high end of things and I always double check by message if the person accepts returns (even when they specifically note on their page that there are no returns) - if I'm paying X for something and I get it and find it has a thin that was not mentioned, you didn't sell me what you advertised. Thus far - I've had no problems (as mentioned above re: the creases).
The ONLY place I've ever been burned was at a bourse. Go figure!
Kelly
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
19 Sep 2014
09:10:52pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Roy -
My first deal with you and Debbie was when you were still doing the stamp lots. I bought a worldwide boxlot from you separated into *really* old envelopes. The message from Debbie said "I have no idea what's in here, have fun!" I found a few nice little surprises in that lot. Shortly after that you went solely to covers, so that was quite a long time ago but boy I was in heaven when I got that lot Some have gone on to other homes and some hold some pretty places in my collection.
Thanks
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I have really enjoyed the aside, but back to the auction, it closed for $100. The interesting thing is to look at the bid history. Two bids for exactly $100 and a retracted bid for $100! It sure looks like they couldn't get anyone to nibble on that fake. Looks like shill bidding to me.
Lars
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
The auction actually closed before it's scheduled time. So I am glad that I asked the question, and thank SOR for helping learn a little more about collecting. Thanks again.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
09:28:07pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Speculation:
Now, if the buyer thinks that the seller didn't know the rarity of the item (the seller is in Spain), the buyer will be all giddy when the fake stamp is received, and will contact an auction house to sell it for riches beyond imagination...until the buyer gets educated.
If the seller is out to dupe the buyer (obviously), then the buyer can return the favor by receiving the fake stamp and reporting to eBay that the item received is not as described. eBay will refund the money to the buyer.
If the buyer just doesn't know, then the buyer will put the stamp in the collection, and it will sit there until...
Hopefully, however, some people not involved in the transaction learned a lesson from this example of greed in the philatelic marketplace.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Michael,
I think your premise is based on the unwarranted assumption that there actually were any bona fide bidders. If you look at the bid details for that auction, they are all consistent with shill bidders, so maybe they were no actual bidders and the seller gained nothing. I can only hope so!
Lars
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
11:44:42pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
It was just speculation.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
Thanks, everyone, for a very interesting and entertaining thread !
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny
I have purchased on Ebay thousands of times. While I agree there are crooks out there the vast majority of sellers are not. I have no problem buying on Ebay. I have had sellers make honest mistakes on items that I could not detect until I was able to check a watermark or something like that. They always offered a refund. This seller does not represent the average honest seller on Ebay.
Login to Like
this post