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United States/Stamps : 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

 

Author
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littleriverphil
Members Picture


03 Sep 2014
04:05:58pm
I have a few copies of U.S A. 1870-73 issue 12 cent bank notes that I have upgraded, and I was examining the stamps that I wanted to sell, looking for hidden defects with a stereo Microscope, a great "fly specking" tool. I was quite surprised to discover that the National Bank Note Co. stamp. Scott 151 showed a lay out line running from the top margin down through the square frame, the outer label oval, the edge of the period of U.S, the inner oval, the edge of the vignette, through the lower section of the oval, all three legs of the W of TWELVE out through the lower square frame and off the margin. The is also a mark possibly from a dropped spirographers tool at the ornament on the left side middle. Thats quite a line to leave unburnished on the plate. So, I placed the Sc 151 back in my stockbook with a bit more respect, and removed the Continental, Scott 162 from the book and placed it under the big Wolfe, and was again delighted to find a large tool mark from the left margin straight through the bottom edge of the U of U.S, across the inner oval, through the vignette, through Henry Clay's eyebrow and disappearing in his hair above his ear.
Wow! what a pair! Not only do they show the "secret mark", but they are both plate varieties. Imagine my surprise when I found the National I had just traded off my NBNC page also showed a lay out line exctly the first National had, only shifted slightly left, missing the period. Now its a trio and I'm not at all sure what I'm going to do.
Because the lay out lines were part of a grid of dots and lines used to align the transfer roll die and were burnished out or erased, these lines are very faint, and I have strengthened them for better visibilty.
First National is A, the Continental is B and the last National is C, in the order I "discovered" them.
A B
Image Not Found Image Not Found

As even the strengthened lines are difficult to see, I've made a composite pic of enlarged scan...D
C
Image Not Found
D
Image Not Found


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littleriverphil
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03 Sep 2014
11:58:25pm
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Moderator: Would this discussion be best if it was the the United States catagory?

Yep. So, as you can see, I moved it. Thanks for the head's up.

Bobby1948, DB Moderator



(Modified by Moderator on 2014-09-04 00:10:22)

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littleriverphil
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04 Sep 2014
12:23:08am
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Thank you Bobby1948. As I mentioned in my pm, hope the topic will generate some discussion about the marks.

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dani20
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04 Sep 2014
06:47:58am
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

A very nice 'catch'. First I've seen of those marks.Thanks for the sharing.
Dan C.

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littleriverphil
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04 Sep 2014
02:47:45pm
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Just re read my post and it seems that I neglected to ask the question that was the whole point of the post, and that is.. How should these stamps be sold? Sell them individually, or as a study group?

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

04 Sep 2014
03:05:06pm
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

These fine stamps would be of interest to a specialist, so selling them as a study group seems appropriate.

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"All hobbies are absurd to those on the outside, and a joy to those within."
littleriverphil
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05 Sep 2014
01:14:18pm
re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

"These fine stamps would be of interest to a specialist, so selling them as a study group seems appropriate."


That is my thought as well, however the catalogue value of the two National stamps is $440 and the Continental is valued at $140 for a total of $580. Of course those catalogue prices are for stamps in Fine Condition with Very Fine centering. These stamps are in fine condition, but they do have some faults, pulled perfs, centered fine and so on, no major faults, no tears, and the cancels are fairly light for the issue. I'm not real sure what to start the bidding at. I've still got some reading to do, if they are constant plate varieties, and from the extent of the tool marks and completeness of the lay out lines, I would think they are there will be something written about them.



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Author/Postings
Members Picture
littleriverphil

03 Sep 2014
04:05:58pm

I have a few copies of U.S A. 1870-73 issue 12 cent bank notes that I have upgraded, and I was examining the stamps that I wanted to sell, looking for hidden defects with a stereo Microscope, a great "fly specking" tool. I was quite surprised to discover that the National Bank Note Co. stamp. Scott 151 showed a lay out line running from the top margin down through the square frame, the outer label oval, the edge of the period of U.S, the inner oval, the edge of the vignette, through the lower section of the oval, all three legs of the W of TWELVE out through the lower square frame and off the margin. The is also a mark possibly from a dropped spirographers tool at the ornament on the left side middle. Thats quite a line to leave unburnished on the plate. So, I placed the Sc 151 back in my stockbook with a bit more respect, and removed the Continental, Scott 162 from the book and placed it under the big Wolfe, and was again delighted to find a large tool mark from the left margin straight through the bottom edge of the U of U.S, across the inner oval, through the vignette, through Henry Clay's eyebrow and disappearing in his hair above his ear.
Wow! what a pair! Not only do they show the "secret mark", but they are both plate varieties. Imagine my surprise when I found the National I had just traded off my NBNC page also showed a lay out line exctly the first National had, only shifted slightly left, missing the period. Now its a trio and I'm not at all sure what I'm going to do.
Because the lay out lines were part of a grid of dots and lines used to align the transfer roll die and were burnished out or erased, these lines are very faint, and I have strengthened them for better visibilty.
First National is A, the Continental is B and the last National is C, in the order I "discovered" them.
A B
Image Not Found Image Not Found

As even the strengthened lines are difficult to see, I've made a composite pic of enlarged scan...D
C
Image Not Found
D
Image Not Found


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Members Picture
littleriverphil

03 Sep 2014
11:58:25pm

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Moderator: Would this discussion be best if it was the the United States catagory?

Yep. So, as you can see, I moved it. Thanks for the head's up.

Bobby1948, DB Moderator



(Modified by Moderator on 2014-09-04 00:10:22)

Like 
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likes this post.
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Members Picture
littleriverphil

04 Sep 2014
12:23:08am

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Thank you Bobby1948. As I mentioned in my pm, hope the topic will generate some discussion about the marks.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
dani20

04 Sep 2014
06:47:58am

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

A very nice 'catch'. First I've seen of those marks.Thanks for the sharing.
Dan C.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
littleriverphil

04 Sep 2014
02:47:45pm

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

Just re read my post and it seems that I neglected to ask the question that was the whole point of the post, and that is.. How should these stamps be sold? Sell them individually, or as a study group?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
04 Sep 2014
03:05:06pm

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

These fine stamps would be of interest to a specialist, so selling them as a study group seems appropriate.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"All hobbies are absurd to those on the outside, and a joy to those within."
Members Picture
littleriverphil

05 Sep 2014
01:14:18pm

re: 12 Cent Bank Note Varieties

"These fine stamps would be of interest to a specialist, so selling them as a study group seems appropriate."


That is my thought as well, however the catalogue value of the two National stamps is $440 and the Continental is valued at $140 for a total of $580. Of course those catalogue prices are for stamps in Fine Condition with Very Fine centering. These stamps are in fine condition, but they do have some faults, pulled perfs, centered fine and so on, no major faults, no tears, and the cancels are fairly light for the issue. I'm not real sure what to start the bidding at. I've still got some reading to do, if they are constant plate varieties, and from the extent of the tool marks and completeness of the lay out lines, I would think they are there will be something written about them.



Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
        

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