Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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12:57:40am
Not all members use the same catalogue. A picture and date of issue is the most helpful. If it is a colour variety or otherwise distinguished by a catalogue number from a similar issue due to perforations, it would be helpful to include the perf info in the listing. Some use Scott, others Stanley Gibbons and others Michel catalogues.
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There are several reasons why MOST stamps sold here (as well as on eBay etc.) do not have catalogue numbers:
1. There is no standardization. Should the seller provide Scott, Stanley Gibbons, Michel, or some other number? Corollary: It is generally easier to describe the stamp that is for sale. Personally, I think it is exciting to talk about stamps than pushing through meaningless numbers.
2. Cataloging takes time. Many of the stamps are sold for low rates, at which it is unrealistic to expect a seller to spend time to look up a catalogue.
3. Cataloging takes expertise. And even many seasoned collectors / dealers do not have the tools, knowledge, or experience in deciphering minor varieties. By providing catalogue numbers (especially for stamps with varieties) a seller assumes "accuracy" for the same.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly, Fizban. This subject has been looked at before, but it doesn't seem to make any changes in the way the auction works. When I am shopping for stamps I do not even look at those that don't have a catalog number, or at least some type of identification to inform buyers. It surprises me that sellers seem know the catalog value, obviously to ascertain a price to sell at, but don't share any of that information. I can certainly understand the lack of any information when the stamp is in the Approvals listings, since those usually sell for pennies, but higher value stamps should always have identification visible.
Good luck,
Mike
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Making it easy for bidders is one goal, Leo. Making it rewarding for sellers is another. would that every catalogue number I entered generated a bid.
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I'm CapeStampMan's back-up man on this one. Have to agree
with Mike no matter how difficult it is for me to do so.
Speaking as a buyer only, "What is so difficult about listing the
catalogue name and the stamp number?"
I buy from sellers who make it easy for me, who accurately identify
their wares, who help me open my wallet, who help me extract their payments,
who tell me they appreciate my patronage, and who are prepared to correct any
errors or omissions should I not be satisfied with my purchases.
Sure, the penny-ante stamps are the exception which proves this selling rule.
John Derry
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As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want.
Re catalog numbers - I agree that any better single stamps in the auction really deserve some type of description or catalog number. For approval books? Well, I arrange everything in my approval books oldest to newest by catalog number so I don't feel the need to number each individual stamp. In this presentation the stamps are in context and not a disorderly mishmash. However, if the issue has several varieties with subtle differences such as watermarks or perfs not easily visible in the scans, I always try to clearly label those. I also have started numbering MNH sets so that someone can grab their want list and know if it is a set that they need. As there is no universal standard catalog number, I've defaulted to using Scott's as it is ubiquitous here in North America.
Selling is extremely time consuming - most of us do this because we love stamps. If you think you're going to make money well let's just say the pay would make minimum wage look awesome in comparison! Making unreasonable requests from the sellers will drive away many casual sellers and reduce the range and variety available to the membership. But buyers deserve clear scans, fair prices, coherent organization and accurate descriptions. Fortunately, the beauty of the market system is that it tends to be self-correcting. Sellers who please the buyers sell more, those who don't will fall by the wayside - eventually.
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01:27:28pm
Well said, Theresa! Now I do not have to compose a response.
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"As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want. "
If you want to learn what a buyer wants, you do not have to look beyond yourself for starters. Sellers often forget that it isn't what they (as a seller) want, it is what the buyer wants. Say to yourself, "If I was a buyer, how would I want it to be?" Regarding stamps, many collectors sell stamps. They certainly buy stamps too. How do you buy your stamps? What are your preferences? Once you can quantify that, you can apply that to your listings and will be on the way to successful selling.
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There are also collectors who use Minkus albums...
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""As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want. ""
To clarify my own statement, I was referring specifically to the buyers here using the Stamporama approval system. Feedback from actual users of the system might provide a suggestion that I hadn't thought of when I assemble an approval book. Rather than just looking within myself for all the answers as you suggest, I find it more helpful to listen to other people's suggestions. After all, two heads are better than one. It still surprises me after 50 years of collecting, buying and selling how many new and interesting ideas and perspectives I've yet to consider. These discussions are a perfect place to gather all these clever and diverse ideas. That's what I was trying to convey.
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I said to start by looking at your own buying habits. Asking others certainly enhances the process, as long as the two heads aren't on the same shoulder!
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If someone is selling stamps for 10 cents each...how much information does he have to provide ???
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"philb":
In reply to your question, I believe the seller should use his or her judgement,
based on personal and acquired experience, and buyer commentary.
I have never sold a stamp. Based only on what I read on Stamporama's
discussion board, inexpensive stamps (let's arbitrarily say less than USA $1.00 apiece)
are not worth the time and effort to sell. If I were to sell stamps, I would either "kilo ware"
inexpensive stamps at prices that could not be refused, or donate them
to other collectors or institutions.
John Derry
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John, i hear what you are saying..most of my stamp collector friends do not sell stamps either. I have heard dealers say they do not bother with stamps under 3 dollars. I may be wrong but i don't think most of the collectors with the auction or the approval books are trying to supplement their income..if they have the time they enjoy doing it.
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For me every 10c is another 10c I can use to buy items for my Ireland collection. Many of us aren't quite as financially flush as others - I know I'm not alone in that. I'm a retired tradesman, on a pension, so I have lots more time than money. Selling is perfect for me. It gives me a little pocket money for the stamp shows and splurges and my husband loves it because I'm busy with the stamps instead of looking around the house for home improvement projects for him to work on. LOL! 
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"I'm busy with the stamps instead of looking around the house for home improvement projects for him to work on. "
What a good wife
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Bob my wife is painting the bedroom as we speak...as a housepainters daughter she does not trust me...but i forgive her !!!!
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My sweetheart of a wife sold our vacuum cleaner because,
"It was just collecting dust."
John Derry
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Oh No !
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Well John,
That's one less job you have to do now!
Mike
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05:38:48am
I very seldom pay any attention to catalog numbers provided by sellers. First off, as has been noted, there are many catalogs and depending on the country I use Gibbons, Facit, Yvert, Michel and others to identify stamps when needed.
While I believe most experienced collectors are knowledgeable in some areas, I don't know who is experienced in what area and thus simply prefer to use my own albums to determine what fits into a space. And also, as mentioned I use Minkus Supreme Albums up to the mid 1970s which bring another system into play.
Finally, I'd prefer, especially in the "Approvals" books, a low price than the wasted time providing what is essentially a useless number that might be wrong as often as right.
That others may prefer a detailed enumeration, I understand, but to me it is a waste of the seller's valuable time.
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I have been asked many times to the Scott numbers on the older stamps that label vintage.
There are too many variables to number to stamp. I want to be as accurate as possible and not have stamp sold by the wrong number and have the buyer come back at me.
Does this make cents?
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i can always look a stamps "catalog number" up if i really want it...i imagine the seller is giving the minimum price he will accept. Its a free market !
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10:07:25am
@Bottom_Fish Jerry, that makes absolute sense. Your scans are large and clear and the buyer is bidding on what he sees. You are making no representations as to value, and that is excellent. Just keep doing what you are doing.
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"@Bottom_Fish Jerry, that makes absolute sense. Your scans are large and clear and the buyer is bidding on what he sees. You are making no representations as to value, and that is excellent. Just keep doing what you are doing.
"
Thanks Bob!
I needed that!
Jerry
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06:42:04am
" ....i imagine the seller is giving the minimum price he will accept. ..."
I should hope so, Phil, and we all know that what Scott lists as a "value" is often very far from reality.
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12:14:11am
would it not be much easier to find material I am looking for ...if there were catalog numbers associated with the lots.....
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
16 Aug 2014
12:57:40am
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Not all members use the same catalogue. A picture and date of issue is the most helpful. If it is a colour variety or otherwise distinguished by a catalogue number from a similar issue due to perforations, it would be helpful to include the perf info in the listing. Some use Scott, others Stanley Gibbons and others Michel catalogues.
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01:22:03am
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
There are several reasons why MOST stamps sold here (as well as on eBay etc.) do not have catalogue numbers:
1. There is no standardization. Should the seller provide Scott, Stanley Gibbons, Michel, or some other number? Corollary: It is generally easier to describe the stamp that is for sale. Personally, I think it is exciting to talk about stamps than pushing through meaningless numbers.
2. Cataloging takes time. Many of the stamps are sold for low rates, at which it is unrealistic to expect a seller to spend time to look up a catalogue.
3. Cataloging takes expertise. And even many seasoned collectors / dealers do not have the tools, knowledge, or experience in deciphering minor varieties. By providing catalogue numbers (especially for stamps with varieties) a seller assumes "accuracy" for the same.
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this post
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Fizban. This subject has been looked at before, but it doesn't seem to make any changes in the way the auction works. When I am shopping for stamps I do not even look at those that don't have a catalog number, or at least some type of identification to inform buyers. It surprises me that sellers seem know the catalog value, obviously to ascertain a price to sell at, but don't share any of that information. I can certainly understand the lack of any information when the stamp is in the Approvals listings, since those usually sell for pennies, but higher value stamps should always have identification visible.
Good luck,
Mike
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Making it easy for bidders is one goal, Leo. Making it rewarding for sellers is another. would that every catalogue number I entered generated a bid.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
16 Aug 2014
11:18:49pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
I'm CapeStampMan's back-up man on this one. Have to agree
with Mike no matter how difficult it is for me to do so.
Speaking as a buyer only, "What is so difficult about listing the
catalogue name and the stamp number?"
I buy from sellers who make it easy for me, who accurately identify
their wares, who help me open my wallet, who help me extract their payments,
who tell me they appreciate my patronage, and who are prepared to correct any
errors or omissions should I not be satisfied with my purchases.
Sure, the penny-ante stamps are the exception which proves this selling rule.
John Derry
Login to Like
this post
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want.
Re catalog numbers - I agree that any better single stamps in the auction really deserve some type of description or catalog number. For approval books? Well, I arrange everything in my approval books oldest to newest by catalog number so I don't feel the need to number each individual stamp. In this presentation the stamps are in context and not a disorderly mishmash. However, if the issue has several varieties with subtle differences such as watermarks or perfs not easily visible in the scans, I always try to clearly label those. I also have started numbering MNH sets so that someone can grab their want list and know if it is a set that they need. As there is no universal standard catalog number, I've defaulted to using Scott's as it is ubiquitous here in North America.
Selling is extremely time consuming - most of us do this because we love stamps. If you think you're going to make money well let's just say the pay would make minimum wage look awesome in comparison! Making unreasonable requests from the sellers will drive away many casual sellers and reduce the range and variety available to the membership. But buyers deserve clear scans, fair prices, coherent organization and accurate descriptions. Fortunately, the beauty of the market system is that it tends to be self-correcting. Sellers who please the buyers sell more, those who don't will fall by the wayside - eventually.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
17 Aug 2014
01:27:28pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Well said, Theresa! Now I do not have to compose a response.
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01:39:11pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
"As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want. "
If you want to learn what a buyer wants, you do not have to look beyond yourself for starters. Sellers often forget that it isn't what they (as a seller) want, it is what the buyer wants. Say to yourself, "If I was a buyer, how would I want it to be?" Regarding stamps, many collectors sell stamps. They certainly buy stamps too. How do you buy your stamps? What are your preferences? Once you can quantify that, you can apply that to your listings and will be on the way to successful selling.
2 Members
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12:14:10pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
There are also collectors who use Minkus albums...
1 Member
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
""As a seller, I really appreciate these discussions - it is very helpful to learn what the buyers want. ""
To clarify my own statement, I was referring specifically to the buyers here using the Stamporama approval system. Feedback from actual users of the system might provide a suggestion that I hadn't thought of when I assemble an approval book. Rather than just looking within myself for all the answers as you suggest, I find it more helpful to listen to other people's suggestions. After all, two heads are better than one. It still surprises me after 50 years of collecting, buying and selling how many new and interesting ideas and perspectives I've yet to consider. These discussions are a perfect place to gather all these clever and diverse ideas. That's what I was trying to convey.
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03:08:19pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
I said to start by looking at your own buying habits. Asking others certainly enhances the process, as long as the two heads aren't on the same shoulder!
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
If someone is selling stamps for 10 cents each...how much information does he have to provide ???
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
18 Aug 2014
11:30:12pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
"philb":
In reply to your question, I believe the seller should use his or her judgement,
based on personal and acquired experience, and buyer commentary.
I have never sold a stamp. Based only on what I read on Stamporama's
discussion board, inexpensive stamps (let's arbitrarily say less than USA $1.00 apiece)
are not worth the time and effort to sell. If I were to sell stamps, I would either "kilo ware"
inexpensive stamps at prices that could not be refused, or donate them
to other collectors or institutions.
John Derry
Login to Like
this post
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
John, i hear what you are saying..most of my stamp collector friends do not sell stamps either. I have heard dealers say they do not bother with stamps under 3 dollars. I may be wrong but i don't think most of the collectors with the auction or the approval books are trying to supplement their income..if they have the time they enjoy doing it.
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
For me every 10c is another 10c I can use to buy items for my Ireland collection. Many of us aren't quite as financially flush as others - I know I'm not alone in that. I'm a retired tradesman, on a pension, so I have lots more time than money. Selling is perfect for me. It gives me a little pocket money for the stamp shows and splurges and my husband loves it because I'm busy with the stamps instead of looking around the house for home improvement projects for him to work on. LOL!
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02:57:26pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
"I'm busy with the stamps instead of looking around the house for home improvement projects for him to work on. "
What a good wife
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Bob my wife is painting the bedroom as we speak...as a housepainters daughter she does not trust me...but i forgive her !!!!
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
19 Aug 2014
06:37:27pm
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
My sweetheart of a wife sold our vacuum cleaner because,
"It was just collecting dust."
John Derry
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Oh No !
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
Well John,
That's one less job you have to do now!
Mike
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Aug 2014
05:38:48am
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
I very seldom pay any attention to catalog numbers provided by sellers. First off, as has been noted, there are many catalogs and depending on the country I use Gibbons, Facit, Yvert, Michel and others to identify stamps when needed.
While I believe most experienced collectors are knowledgeable in some areas, I don't know who is experienced in what area and thus simply prefer to use my own albums to determine what fits into a space. And also, as mentioned I use Minkus Supreme Albums up to the mid 1970s which bring another system into play.
Finally, I'd prefer, especially in the "Approvals" books, a low price than the wasted time providing what is essentially a useless number that might be wrong as often as right.
That others may prefer a detailed enumeration, I understand, but to me it is a waste of the seller's valuable time.
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
I have been asked many times to the Scott numbers on the older stamps that label vintage.
There are too many variables to number to stamp. I want to be as accurate as possible and not have stamp sold by the wrong number and have the buyer come back at me.
Does this make cents?
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
i can always look a stamps "catalog number" up if i really want it...i imagine the seller is giving the minimum price he will accept. Its a free market !
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Nov 2014
10:07:25am
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
@Bottom_Fish Jerry, that makes absolute sense. Your scans are large and clear and the buyer is bidding on what he sees. You are making no representations as to value, and that is excellent. Just keep doing what you are doing.
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re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
"@Bottom_Fish Jerry, that makes absolute sense. Your scans are large and clear and the buyer is bidding on what he sees. You are making no representations as to value, and that is excellent. Just keep doing what you are doing.
"
Thanks Bob!
I needed that!
Jerry
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Dec 2014
06:42:04am
re: Why are there no catalog numbers on the auction lots....
" ....i imagine the seller is giving the minimum price he will accept. ..."
I should hope so, Phil, and we all know that what Scott lists as a "value" is often very far from reality.
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