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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

 

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philatelia
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06 Jun 2014
07:55:43pm
I have some older British Commonwealth that I'm putting in approval books. A few of them have the brownish stains and I'm not sure how to describe the fault as toning or tropical staining. I wonder if there is anyway to clean off the stains? Some have only a tiny bit on the edges. Can anyone help? Thank you!


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smauggie
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06 Jun 2014
10:14:45pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Usually when the word "tropical" is used (in my experience) is as in "tropical gum" or "tropicalized gum". The gum on the back of the stamp has been disturbed by the humidity in the air, and this does foment toning as well.

Long story short, I would just say, "Toned spot in UL corner".

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roy
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06 Jun 2014
10:50:53pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

"Toning spots", "tropical toning", "foxing" (more often used in the book business) all refer to brown spots that are actually a mold or mildew, and cannot be safely removed.

With covers, we frequently use the term "overall toning" when the cover has browned. This is sometimes due to tropical conditions but also frequently from the inclusion of acidic paper inserts - especially old newspaper clippings, which are death to a cover.

There are no exact, universally accepted terms. Reasonable descriptive terms are adequate, such as "toned perf tips", "small toned spot upper left" "overall toning" would all be acceptable.

Roy

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philatelia
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07 Jun 2014
05:18:26am
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Thank you! Excellent explanations and very helpful.

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joshtanski
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07 Jun 2014
08:41:00am
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Can the "toning" spread to other stamps over time?

Thanks,
Josh

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Poodle_Mum
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07 Jun 2014
10:01:26am
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Josh -

Generally speaking from my own experience I've only noticed more than one stamp affected if there are a number of stamps in a glassine that have been exposed to moisture or separately due to mounting on highly acidic paper.

Kelly

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TuskenRaider
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07 Jun 2014
01:01:20pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Hi philatelia & everyone;

I bought a collection many decades ago, when I was very naive. The seller was our stamp club's auctioneer, whom I trusted. I went to his home to see the stamps, and purchased them that same day. I should have consulted with and shown them to my mentor Bill, also a club member.

When Bill saw what I had purchased, he was very disappointed, and told me they were mildewed (moldy). He said that in humid conditions this could become a plague and contaminate all my albums and stamps. He warned me that one of the first things a savvy dealer will do is smell for that telltale musty oder of mold, and then tell you "thanks, but no thanks".

I since have learned the importance of air-conditioning my stamp room. I also keep large boxes full of envelopes of stamps (20,000-30,000), in a metal cabinet. Inside of each box is a 2 ounce tyvek pouch of desiccant (silica gel) to keep the humidity stable. Humidity and temperature changes are very bad for archival storage of anything made of paper.

I eventually burned the stamp collection, as it made a nice bonfire. The $40.00 I lost was a cheap lesson, as my collection is probably worth hundreds of times more than the $40.00 I lost.

Even tho I use stamp tongs, I wash my hands every half-hour or so, and never put hand lotion on my hands ever. Almost all lotions are oily, even tho the manufacturer states it is not. By the time you discover that the lotion you are using is oily, it will be too late for your stamps, which will already have been ruined.

If I handle hamburger or other very greasy meats, I wash with Dawn dish detergent, which has powerful de-greasers. I use an old soft toothbrush under my nails to remove all traces of grease. I then wash again with Ivory hand soap, never scented soap. Who knows what chemicals are in the scented soap, and what it will do to stamp paper. You may think I'm a Felix Unger, but I'm not at all, just a sloppy old Oscar Madison.

Also, on drying of stamps in a drying book with blotters, many people think that they must leave them in the book for weeks to get flat stamps. Nonsense, for years I have used a flat iron (the kind for pressing clothes), set to cotton, with a 5 lb. weight on top of the iron. Takes about 5 minutes, then remove stamps and place single layer between sheets of copier paper under heavy weight for a couple weeks.

Leaving stamps damp for extended periods of time is a great way to get mildewed stamps. You may not notice the mildew at first, but over the years changes in humidity can cause this to spread to a whole collection.

Also, never never tell someone to dry their stamps on newspapers. Just because you are stupid enough to do this, don't pass this nonsense on to someone else. Many decades ago I did this and ruined a large lot of high value British commemoratives. Not all newspaper publishers use the same kind of inks. Maybe the one in your hometown has ink that is not transferable to wet stamps. However others may have a paper in their town that is harmful to stamps.

Why would anyone be so cheap as to even think of using newspapers for stamp drying anyway? Go to Office Max and by some copier paper, for a few bucks a ream.

Happy collecting
Ken Tall Pines

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philatelia
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07 Jun 2014
02:37:33pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Wow interesting story! It really makes me want to wash my hands! My hubby says I'm like Monk on that TV show. LOL I bleach everything!

But I'm not too worried about having a few dry aged brown stamps. Slimy ones - well ewwww to that! My thinking is that in order to spread from one stamp to another, wouldn't they have to be in direct contact with each other and the environment would have to be humid enough to be conducive for mold growth? Wouldn't it have to be a "live" culture not a desiccated decades old staining? I have some very old "toned" stamps that have been in a book of Hagner sheets with other stamps for over 10 years, and there is no sign that it has spread. I also watermarked the toned stamps - they are early Commonwealth. I'd be surprised if the mold could survive a watermark fluid bath. Stamps mounted in an album wouldn't touch each other either.

In any case, if you live in a humid environment, your advice is absolutely critical to prevent mildew. It makes me shudder when someone says they have grandpa's album in their basement! Ewwwwwwww!!!

Gotta go wash my hands again!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

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"August 2023 - selling penny start bargain lots on EBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/philatelia"

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TuskenRaider
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07 Jun 2014
06:54:57pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Hi philatelia & everyone;

To answer your mold question, mold spores can survive decades of dry conditions only to come to life when conditions are good for growth. Bacteria are very similar to mold spores, in that they secrete a protective coating whenever the environment is unfavorable, and reabsorb the coating when times get better.

Mold spores are so small that they are invisible even under a 10x loupe. What you see as a stain (assuming the stain is mold) is actually a large colony of mold, and spores can be all over the stamp. Handling such a stamp, you can transfer these spores to other album pages and stamps. Yes watermark fluid probably will kill the colony and spores.

Stains due to contact with acid paper is probably the most likely thing you have. Your stamps will make a nice weenie or marsh mellow roast. I'm not sure if acid paper staining will transfer to other stamps or album pages or not. If they are worth less than $5.00 each, I would just toss them, or try to send them back to whom ever sold them to you, for a refund.

Everyone is probably wondering how I can wash my hands so often, and not use hand lotion, especially in Winter? I do get chapped hands, and take a break from my stamps from time-to-time use a good hand lotion until they recover (couple days or so) before going back to the stamps.

Ken Tall Pines

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michael78651

07 Jun 2014
07:26:51pm
re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

"I'm not sure if acid paper staining will transfer to other stamps or album pages or not."



A stamp with acid staining got it from the acidic paper that it was on. Once stained, the stamp is now acidic. It will transfer the acid to any other paper that it touches. It is, however, a matter of exposure. It takes time for the acid to spread, and it takes more time for the effects of it to become known.
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philatelia

06 Jun 2014
07:55:43pm

I have some older British Commonwealth that I'm putting in approval books. A few of them have the brownish stains and I'm not sure how to describe the fault as toning or tropical staining. I wonder if there is anyway to clean off the stains? Some have only a tiny bit on the edges. Can anyone help? Thank you!


Like
Login to Like
this post

"August 2023 - selling penny start bargain lots on EBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/philatelia"

www.ebay.com/str/phi ...
Members Picture
smauggie

06 Jun 2014
10:14:45pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Usually when the word "tropical" is used (in my experience) is as in "tropical gum" or "tropicalized gum". The gum on the back of the stamp has been disturbed by the humidity in the air, and this does foment toning as well.

Long story short, I would just say, "Toned spot in UL corner".

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
06 Jun 2014
10:50:53pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

"Toning spots", "tropical toning", "foxing" (more often used in the book business) all refer to brown spots that are actually a mold or mildew, and cannot be safely removed.

With covers, we frequently use the term "overall toning" when the cover has browned. This is sometimes due to tropical conditions but also frequently from the inclusion of acidic paper inserts - especially old newspaper clippings, which are death to a cover.

There are no exact, universally accepted terms. Reasonable descriptive terms are adequate, such as "toned perf tips", "small toned spot upper left" "overall toning" would all be acceptable.

Roy

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likes this post.
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philatelia

07 Jun 2014
05:18:26am

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Thank you! Excellent explanations and very helpful.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"August 2023 - selling penny start bargain lots on EBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/philatelia"

www.ebay.com/str/phi ...
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joshtanski

07 Jun 2014
08:41:00am

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Can the "toning" spread to other stamps over time?

Thanks,
Josh

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07 Jun 2014
10:01:26am

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Josh -

Generally speaking from my own experience I've only noticed more than one stamp affected if there are a number of stamps in a glassine that have been exposed to moisture or separately due to mounting on highly acidic paper.

Kelly

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TuskenRaider

07 Jun 2014
01:01:20pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Hi philatelia & everyone;

I bought a collection many decades ago, when I was very naive. The seller was our stamp club's auctioneer, whom I trusted. I went to his home to see the stamps, and purchased them that same day. I should have consulted with and shown them to my mentor Bill, also a club member.

When Bill saw what I had purchased, he was very disappointed, and told me they were mildewed (moldy). He said that in humid conditions this could become a plague and contaminate all my albums and stamps. He warned me that one of the first things a savvy dealer will do is smell for that telltale musty oder of mold, and then tell you "thanks, but no thanks".

I since have learned the importance of air-conditioning my stamp room. I also keep large boxes full of envelopes of stamps (20,000-30,000), in a metal cabinet. Inside of each box is a 2 ounce tyvek pouch of desiccant (silica gel) to keep the humidity stable. Humidity and temperature changes are very bad for archival storage of anything made of paper.

I eventually burned the stamp collection, as it made a nice bonfire. The $40.00 I lost was a cheap lesson, as my collection is probably worth hundreds of times more than the $40.00 I lost.

Even tho I use stamp tongs, I wash my hands every half-hour or so, and never put hand lotion on my hands ever. Almost all lotions are oily, even tho the manufacturer states it is not. By the time you discover that the lotion you are using is oily, it will be too late for your stamps, which will already have been ruined.

If I handle hamburger or other very greasy meats, I wash with Dawn dish detergent, which has powerful de-greasers. I use an old soft toothbrush under my nails to remove all traces of grease. I then wash again with Ivory hand soap, never scented soap. Who knows what chemicals are in the scented soap, and what it will do to stamp paper. You may think I'm a Felix Unger, but I'm not at all, just a sloppy old Oscar Madison.

Also, on drying of stamps in a drying book with blotters, many people think that they must leave them in the book for weeks to get flat stamps. Nonsense, for years I have used a flat iron (the kind for pressing clothes), set to cotton, with a 5 lb. weight on top of the iron. Takes about 5 minutes, then remove stamps and place single layer between sheets of copier paper under heavy weight for a couple weeks.

Leaving stamps damp for extended periods of time is a great way to get mildewed stamps. You may not notice the mildew at first, but over the years changes in humidity can cause this to spread to a whole collection.

Also, never never tell someone to dry their stamps on newspapers. Just because you are stupid enough to do this, don't pass this nonsense on to someone else. Many decades ago I did this and ruined a large lot of high value British commemoratives. Not all newspaper publishers use the same kind of inks. Maybe the one in your hometown has ink that is not transferable to wet stamps. However others may have a paper in their town that is harmful to stamps.

Why would anyone be so cheap as to even think of using newspapers for stamp drying anyway? Go to Office Max and by some copier paper, for a few bucks a ream.

Happy collecting
Ken Tall Pines

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this post

www.webstore.com/sto ...
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philatelia

07 Jun 2014
02:37:33pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Wow interesting story! It really makes me want to wash my hands! My hubby says I'm like Monk on that TV show. LOL I bleach everything!

But I'm not too worried about having a few dry aged brown stamps. Slimy ones - well ewwww to that! My thinking is that in order to spread from one stamp to another, wouldn't they have to be in direct contact with each other and the environment would have to be humid enough to be conducive for mold growth? Wouldn't it have to be a "live" culture not a desiccated decades old staining? I have some very old "toned" stamps that have been in a book of Hagner sheets with other stamps for over 10 years, and there is no sign that it has spread. I also watermarked the toned stamps - they are early Commonwealth. I'd be surprised if the mold could survive a watermark fluid bath. Stamps mounted in an album wouldn't touch each other either.

In any case, if you live in a humid environment, your advice is absolutely critical to prevent mildew. It makes me shudder when someone says they have grandpa's album in their basement! Ewwwwwwww!!!

Gotta go wash my hands again!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"August 2023 - selling penny start bargain lots on EBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/philatelia"

www.ebay.com/str/phi ...
Members Picture
TuskenRaider

07 Jun 2014
06:54:57pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

Hi philatelia & everyone;

To answer your mold question, mold spores can survive decades of dry conditions only to come to life when conditions are good for growth. Bacteria are very similar to mold spores, in that they secrete a protective coating whenever the environment is unfavorable, and reabsorb the coating when times get better.

Mold spores are so small that they are invisible even under a 10x loupe. What you see as a stain (assuming the stain is mold) is actually a large colony of mold, and spores can be all over the stamp. Handling such a stamp, you can transfer these spores to other album pages and stamps. Yes watermark fluid probably will kill the colony and spores.

Stains due to contact with acid paper is probably the most likely thing you have. Your stamps will make a nice weenie or marsh mellow roast. I'm not sure if acid paper staining will transfer to other stamps or album pages or not. If they are worth less than $5.00 each, I would just toss them, or try to send them back to whom ever sold them to you, for a refund.

Everyone is probably wondering how I can wash my hands so often, and not use hand lotion, especially in Winter? I do get chapped hands, and take a break from my stamps from time-to-time use a good hand lotion until they recover (couple days or so) before going back to the stamps.

Ken Tall Pines

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/sto ...
michael78651

07 Jun 2014
07:26:51pm

re: Does anyone know ---- what is the difference between "toning" and "tropical staining" ???

"I'm not sure if acid paper staining will transfer to other stamps or album pages or not."



A stamp with acid staining got it from the acidic paper that it was on. Once stained, the stamp is now acidic. It will transfer the acid to any other paper that it touches. It is, however, a matter of exposure. It takes time for the acid to spread, and it takes more time for the effects of it to become known.
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