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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

 

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Jun 2014
12:25:19pm

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Well, seeing as we're approaching the one-month anniversary of State of California's recognition of Karabakh, i thought it fitting to show case the place. The country is also known as "Nagorno-Karabakh," "Karabakh Artsakh," and "Mountainous Karabakh."

If you don't know where it is, or didn't even know it existed, you are not alone. Only three entities besides California recognize the existence of the place, and none of them are themselves recognized by the UN.

It is completely landlocked within Azerbaijan, but is aligned ethnically and linguistically with Armenia, whose flag is the basis and counterpoint for the Karabakh flag. It is just north of Iran, in the western non-contiguous segment of Azerbaijan, which is bisected by Armenia.

Karabakh was claimed by both Armenia and Azerbaijan when both countries gained independence from the collapsing Imperial Russia. They needn't have bothered, as both were subsumed into the newly emerging Soviet Union by 1923. When both countries emerged from the collapsing Soviet Union in 1989, Karabakh was again the center of a dispute between them, culminating in the war that bares the region's name. The war, unknown in the west, claimed at least 26,000 soldiers' deaths

My friend, Bob Ingraham, knowing of my interest in Cinderellas and all things fleeting, sent these to me. Unfortunately, the envelope itself did not survive, but the bi-lingual postmark from Stepanakert, the capital, nicely ties the two stamps to what remains. The stamp on the left features the Parliament building; the stamp on the right has the country's flag and ancient church. The stamps include bi- and tri-lingual representations of the country's name using three different alphabets (Roman, Cyrillic, and Armenian).

It is quite incredible that this made it out of Karabakh, as it is landlocked and not recognized by the UPU, the body that governs international mail, and the Azeris, over whose land the letter surely had to fly to make it to Canada, aren't happy.

Whether this should properly be categorized as Cinderella or stamp, I don't rightly know. I would definitely call it a stamp, because it comes from a physical place, and the label's purpose was clearly to carry the mail, which it did, and it was issued by the same entity that forms the government. Of course, the UN and UPU don't recognize it, neither does Azerbaijan, the country in which it resides, nor does Armenia, a country that sent troops to fight for it. But it carried a letter out of Karabakh and into Canada. So, what say you?

Image Not Found

David Teisler

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sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often

06 Jun 2014
01:10:38pm
re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

I'll bet someone has a block of 50 or more and is just sitting on until it is recognized. Great find. I think they are stamps because they did travel through the mails, they have location of origin & numerical value of stamps. Isn't stamp collecting interesting? P

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

06 Jun 2014
01:43:46pm
re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

We should all be entitled to our
moment in the sunshine, David,
including Karabakh.

Thank you for the entertaining
postal history lesson.

John Derry

P.S. If I possessed those
postage stamps, I'd certainly
keep them as bona fide
postage stamps irrespective
of how others might describe them.

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"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

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nigelc
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06 Jun 2014
02:41:37pm
re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

"It is quite incredible that this made it out of Karabakh, as it is landlocked and not recognized by the UPU, the body that governs international mail, and the Azeris, over whose land the letter surely had to fly to make it to Canada, aren't happy."



Hi David,

I assume these stamps are in regular use in Nagorno-Karabakh.

The territory controlled by Nagorno-Karabakh borders Armenia so I guess mail is delivered by road from Stepanakert to Yerevan in Armenia and then forwarded from there if required.

As far as I know the airport in Stepanakert is still closed but, if it were open, planes could fly to Armenia without crossing Azeri-controlled territory (although they would be crossing territory that is still de jure part of Azerbaijan).

I have two philatelic registered covers from Nagorno-Karabakh from 2001, one to the USA and the other to Russia. The Russian one has a Moscow post office arrival mark on the reverse while the USA one appears to have a red registered arrival mark which although it has a clear date has a smudged inscription. I don't know if either arrival postmark is genuine.

I've had the good fortune to spend time in Georgia, Turkey and Iran but sadly have never visited Armenia or Azerbaijan (apart from sitting in a plane on the tarmac at Yerevan airport for a few minutes).
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Jun 2014
02:50:35pm

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re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Image Not Found

this is from Wiki, and I can't vouch for its correctness, but it looks like NK is entirely within Azeri territory and not contiguous at any point with Armenia. Does NK control territory not shown on this map?


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nigelc
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06 Jun 2014
03:11:34pm
re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Hi David,

The map you've posted shows the boundary of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast within the Azerbaijan SSR.

After the Armenia-Azerbaijan war most of this territory became part of what is currently the unrecognised Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR).

The NKR also controls significant territory that had been outside the old oblast:

Image Not Found

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Jun 2014
03:34:21pm

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re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Fabulous, Nigel

that explains so much and makes so much more sense

David

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Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Jun 2014
12:25:19pm

Auctions

Well, seeing as we're approaching the one-month anniversary of State of California's recognition of Karabakh, i thought it fitting to show case the place. The country is also known as "Nagorno-Karabakh," "Karabakh Artsakh," and "Mountainous Karabakh."

If you don't know where it is, or didn't even know it existed, you are not alone. Only three entities besides California recognize the existence of the place, and none of them are themselves recognized by the UN.

It is completely landlocked within Azerbaijan, but is aligned ethnically and linguistically with Armenia, whose flag is the basis and counterpoint for the Karabakh flag. It is just north of Iran, in the western non-contiguous segment of Azerbaijan, which is bisected by Armenia.

Karabakh was claimed by both Armenia and Azerbaijan when both countries gained independence from the collapsing Imperial Russia. They needn't have bothered, as both were subsumed into the newly emerging Soviet Union by 1923. When both countries emerged from the collapsing Soviet Union in 1989, Karabakh was again the center of a dispute between them, culminating in the war that bares the region's name. The war, unknown in the west, claimed at least 26,000 soldiers' deaths

My friend, Bob Ingraham, knowing of my interest in Cinderellas and all things fleeting, sent these to me. Unfortunately, the envelope itself did not survive, but the bi-lingual postmark from Stepanakert, the capital, nicely ties the two stamps to what remains. The stamp on the left features the Parliament building; the stamp on the right has the country's flag and ancient church. The stamps include bi- and tri-lingual representations of the country's name using three different alphabets (Roman, Cyrillic, and Armenian).

It is quite incredible that this made it out of Karabakh, as it is landlocked and not recognized by the UPU, the body that governs international mail, and the Azeris, over whose land the letter surely had to fly to make it to Canada, aren't happy.

Whether this should properly be categorized as Cinderella or stamp, I don't rightly know. I would definitely call it a stamp, because it comes from a physical place, and the label's purpose was clearly to carry the mail, which it did, and it was issued by the same entity that forms the government. Of course, the UN and UPU don't recognize it, neither does Azerbaijan, the country in which it resides, nor does Armenia, a country that sent troops to fight for it. But it carried a letter out of Karabakh and into Canada. So, what say you?

Image Not Found

David Teisler

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
sponthetrona2

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
06 Jun 2014
01:10:38pm

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

I'll bet someone has a block of 50 or more and is just sitting on until it is recognized. Great find. I think they are stamps because they did travel through the mails, they have location of origin & numerical value of stamps. Isn't stamp collecting interesting? P

Like
Login to Like
this post

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
06 Jun 2014
01:43:46pm

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

We should all be entitled to our
moment in the sunshine, David,
including Karabakh.

Thank you for the entertaining
postal history lesson.

John Derry

P.S. If I possessed those
postage stamps, I'd certainly
keep them as bona fide
postage stamps irrespective
of how others might describe them.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
Members Picture
nigelc

06 Jun 2014
02:41:37pm

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

"It is quite incredible that this made it out of Karabakh, as it is landlocked and not recognized by the UPU, the body that governs international mail, and the Azeris, over whose land the letter surely had to fly to make it to Canada, aren't happy."



Hi David,

I assume these stamps are in regular use in Nagorno-Karabakh.

The territory controlled by Nagorno-Karabakh borders Armenia so I guess mail is delivered by road from Stepanakert to Yerevan in Armenia and then forwarded from there if required.

As far as I know the airport in Stepanakert is still closed but, if it were open, planes could fly to Armenia without crossing Azeri-controlled territory (although they would be crossing territory that is still de jure part of Azerbaijan).

I have two philatelic registered covers from Nagorno-Karabakh from 2001, one to the USA and the other to Russia. The Russian one has a Moscow post office arrival mark on the reverse while the USA one appears to have a red registered arrival mark which although it has a clear date has a smudged inscription. I don't know if either arrival postmark is genuine.

I've had the good fortune to spend time in Georgia, Turkey and Iran but sadly have never visited Armenia or Azerbaijan (apart from sitting in a plane on the tarmac at Yerevan airport for a few minutes).
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this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Jun 2014
02:50:35pm

Auctions

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Image Not Found

this is from Wiki, and I can't vouch for its correctness, but it looks like NK is entirely within Azeri territory and not contiguous at any point with Armenia. Does NK control territory not shown on this map?


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
nigelc

06 Jun 2014
03:11:34pm

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Hi David,

The map you've posted shows the boundary of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast within the Azerbaijan SSR.

After the Armenia-Azerbaijan war most of this territory became part of what is currently the unrecognised Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR).

The NKR also controls significant territory that had been outside the old oblast:

Image Not Found

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this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Jun 2014
03:34:21pm

Auctions

re: Cinderella or Stamps... They Carried the Mail, but They Are From a Land That Doesn't Exist

Fabulous, Nigel

that explains so much and makes so much more sense

David

Like
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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
        

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