Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Do members feel this started as marketing hype or is there some substantiation for upward valuation of a cover franked in that manner, aside from the fact that it was necessary to use combinations of various denominations (normally of different colors) to make a rate, and save space on the cover?
Would anyone like to mention other marketing fads, successful or not, pertaining to stamps or covers that have come and gone?
Here are a couple examples to illustrate my question:
Bruce
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Bruce, I am not a fan of these frankings that are either careless or philatelic. I much prefer a franking that uses the least possible stamps OR uses the least cumbersome combination. My preference would be the 12c from the series, folllwed by 10c and 2c, followed by two 5c and 2c, and then six 2c or 12 1c.
I would reduce its asking price rather than increase it.
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The first cover may be franked that way because of whimsy, or it may be philatelic. The second one is definitely philatelic. Either way I agree with David.
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Okay, so please educate me, and I'm not being
critical here as we all have our preferences. (That's code for eccentricities.)
What constitutes normal franking? I'm not talking about the tar-brush
approach to franking or the spray-gun attack.
We live in a world of colours and most stamps aren't black and white. Bruce's
comments strike me as market oriented rather than collector oriented.
Could not the use of the least number of stamps to satisfy the postal rate
be considered "contrived" or, collaterally, "philatelic"? Putting stamps on
letters is, after all, a sentient response.
These are important questions for me because, in corresponding with
stamp collectors, I want to mail a letter that appeals to their philatelic
sensibilities.
Me? I look for the beauty in the stamps that come my way. I like both
those covers that Bruce has posted.
John Derry
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As long as the stamps pay the proper rate the more merrier for me ! Like both of these .
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John,
what a fabulously simple question begetting an incredibly complex answer.
I, of course, being the provincial yank who collects primarily US covers, never even considered my own answer except from the US collector's PoV. Pity, except that it generated your query.
So, I hold to my initial answer when considering US postal history, but that's only one type of cover.
I have in my possession some remarkably complex frankings from you, my good friend. I treasure them. I don't collect Canada covers, per se, but yours are franked with interesting stamps and labels, and it is for that reason I treasure them all the more. If they had the current fox or beaver or whatever the going rate to US definitive is, and that alone, the covers would be plebian (although their contents delicious, as only you and I know). But you and others of my philatelic phrends who know my interest in seals and military often find the best combos. So, from you or my Canadian friends, I'd far prefer a cover franked with each of the Canadian regimental commemoratives rather than the smallest number of definitives, and a contemporarily tied seal makes it a true treasure.
The same goes in the US when trying to find used commemoratives from complex setenant sets. I often break my own rule and use an entire pane of commemoratives to cover a cover, thereby providing rare postally used examples.
However, returning to US postal history of a century ago, I still prefer a 12c Bureau properly used to the multiple low-rate stamps (and try finding one of those 12c Bureaus properly used).
thanks for asking, John
David
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I think my point is missed: Aside from a cover's philatelic valuation based on collector interest, there seems to me there occurred a marketing hype beginning maybe 20 or so years ago in order to boost a cover's valuation above the norm (okay, whatever norm is...)because the cover was franked with say for example red, blue and green stamps, that somehow the different colors were adding to the value over and above its stated value. The phrase escapes me but I think in descriptions, covers began to have the world colors added to their descriptive phrase. (edit addition) Before this usage of the word color to add value, it was I think just accepted that certain covers would require a number of different stamp denominations to make the ongoing rate, and likely those denominations would be of a different color.
Also, does anyone recall any similar philatelic marketing hypes that either became accepted over time or fell flat?
Bruce
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I think it is worth making a distinction here between 'ordinary' post (internal postcards and letters) and 'exceptional' mail (printed paper,parcels, registered, foreign, airmail etc)
In the case of the former it is normal for the sender to affix their own stamps. The result is it could be franked by any combination of stamps they happen to have to hand.
In the case of the latter, it is normal for the post office officials to affix the stamps, because the item usually has to be weighed, measured or recorded. They are much less likely to put on random mixtures, unless they are specifically asked to do so for philatelic purposes. Add to this that in the final years of C19 and much of the first half of C20 the UPU issued 'rules' about stamp colour. Countries were expected to issue stamps for similar purposes in the same colour the world over. This made it easier for postal officials to handle foreign mail, since they only needed to familiarise themselves with a limited range of stamps. Internally it made no difference: postal officials were easily able to recognise the full range of their own countries' stamps. But postmasters affixing stamps for abroad would, all other things being equal, be expected to conform to the 'correct' stamps.
Therefore if foreign mail (particularly of that period) has a mixture of colours you need to examine the precise mix to try to decide whether:
a) it is philatelic (probably worth a de-premium)
b) it is very shortly after a change of rate, before new stamps in the correct colour had been issues (possibly worth a small premium)
c) it is a local problem of a post office running out of stamps (interesting but probably not worth a premium, due to lack of general interest)
d)a random act (not worth a premium)
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"Could not the use of the least number of stamps to satisfy the postal rate
be considered "contrived" or, collaterally, "philatelic"? Putting stamps on
letters is, after all, a sentient response.
"
A philatelic cover is an envelope or post card prepared with a stamp(s) and address and sent through the mail delivery system for the purpose of creating a collectible item.
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10:00:28pm
I'd like to hear some opinions about valuing covers at a premium above their normal value when say normally definitive stamps (or others) of different colors (denominations) are used.
Do members feel this started as marketing hype or is there some substantiation for upward valuation of a cover franked in that manner, aside from the fact that it was necessary to use combinations of various denominations (normally of different colors) to make a rate, and save space on the cover?
Would anyone like to mention other marketing fads, successful or not, pertaining to stamps or covers that have come and gone?
Here are a couple examples to illustrate my question:
Bruce
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this post
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
Bruce, I am not a fan of these frankings that are either careless or philatelic. I much prefer a franking that uses the least possible stamps OR uses the least cumbersome combination. My preference would be the 12c from the series, folllwed by 10c and 2c, followed by two 5c and 2c, and then six 2c or 12 1c.
I would reduce its asking price rather than increase it.
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re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
The first cover may be franked that way because of whimsy, or it may be philatelic. The second one is definitely philatelic. Either way I agree with David.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
25 Apr 2014
04:47:20pm
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
Okay, so please educate me, and I'm not being
critical here as we all have our preferences. (That's code for eccentricities.)
What constitutes normal franking? I'm not talking about the tar-brush
approach to franking or the spray-gun attack.
We live in a world of colours and most stamps aren't black and white. Bruce's
comments strike me as market oriented rather than collector oriented.
Could not the use of the least number of stamps to satisfy the postal rate
be considered "contrived" or, collaterally, "philatelic"? Putting stamps on
letters is, after all, a sentient response.
These are important questions for me because, in corresponding with
stamp collectors, I want to mail a letter that appeals to their philatelic
sensibilities.
Me? I look for the beauty in the stamps that come my way. I like both
those covers that Bruce has posted.
John Derry
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this post
10:28:10pm
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
As long as the stamps pay the proper rate the more merrier for me ! Like both of these .
Login to Like
this post
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
John,
what a fabulously simple question begetting an incredibly complex answer.
I, of course, being the provincial yank who collects primarily US covers, never even considered my own answer except from the US collector's PoV. Pity, except that it generated your query.
So, I hold to my initial answer when considering US postal history, but that's only one type of cover.
I have in my possession some remarkably complex frankings from you, my good friend. I treasure them. I don't collect Canada covers, per se, but yours are franked with interesting stamps and labels, and it is for that reason I treasure them all the more. If they had the current fox or beaver or whatever the going rate to US definitive is, and that alone, the covers would be plebian (although their contents delicious, as only you and I know). But you and others of my philatelic phrends who know my interest in seals and military often find the best combos. So, from you or my Canadian friends, I'd far prefer a cover franked with each of the Canadian regimental commemoratives rather than the smallest number of definitives, and a contemporarily tied seal makes it a true treasure.
The same goes in the US when trying to find used commemoratives from complex setenant sets. I often break my own rule and use an entire pane of commemoratives to cover a cover, thereby providing rare postally used examples.
However, returning to US postal history of a century ago, I still prefer a 12c Bureau properly used to the multiple low-rate stamps (and try finding one of those 12c Bureaus properly used).
thanks for asking, John
David
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06:32:37pm
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
I think my point is missed: Aside from a cover's philatelic valuation based on collector interest, there seems to me there occurred a marketing hype beginning maybe 20 or so years ago in order to boost a cover's valuation above the norm (okay, whatever norm is...)because the cover was franked with say for example red, blue and green stamps, that somehow the different colors were adding to the value over and above its stated value. The phrase escapes me but I think in descriptions, covers began to have the world colors added to their descriptive phrase. (edit addition) Before this usage of the word color to add value, it was I think just accepted that certain covers would require a number of different stamp denominations to make the ongoing rate, and likely those denominations would be of a different color.
Also, does anyone recall any similar philatelic marketing hypes that either became accepted over time or fell flat?
Bruce
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06:56:05am
re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
I think it is worth making a distinction here between 'ordinary' post (internal postcards and letters) and 'exceptional' mail (printed paper,parcels, registered, foreign, airmail etc)
In the case of the former it is normal for the sender to affix their own stamps. The result is it could be franked by any combination of stamps they happen to have to hand.
In the case of the latter, it is normal for the post office officials to affix the stamps, because the item usually has to be weighed, measured or recorded. They are much less likely to put on random mixtures, unless they are specifically asked to do so for philatelic purposes. Add to this that in the final years of C19 and much of the first half of C20 the UPU issued 'rules' about stamp colour. Countries were expected to issue stamps for similar purposes in the same colour the world over. This made it easier for postal officials to handle foreign mail, since they only needed to familiarise themselves with a limited range of stamps. Internally it made no difference: postal officials were easily able to recognise the full range of their own countries' stamps. But postmasters affixing stamps for abroad would, all other things being equal, be expected to conform to the 'correct' stamps.
Therefore if foreign mail (particularly of that period) has a mixture of colours you need to examine the precise mix to try to decide whether:
a) it is philatelic (probably worth a de-premium)
b) it is very shortly after a change of rate, before new stamps in the correct colour had been issues (possibly worth a small premium)
c) it is a local problem of a post office running out of stamps (interesting but probably not worth a premium, due to lack of general interest)
d)a random act (not worth a premium)
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re: Franked With Various Color Stamps
"Could not the use of the least number of stamps to satisfy the postal rate
be considered "contrived" or, collaterally, "philatelic"? Putting stamps on
letters is, after all, a sentient response.
"
A philatelic cover is an envelope or post card prepared with a stamp(s) and address and sent through the mail delivery system for the purpose of creating a collectible item.
Login to Like
this post