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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
10:02:28pm
After 30 minutes, I thought I'd go insane. At first I started with Australian States - yeah, right! Same stamp, different watermarks, paper types, etc. So I flip through Scott only to discover that some of the other countries are even worse.
To say nothing about Great Britain and having to figure out Plate #s.
Has anyone seriously gone through their QV collection, catalogued it and ended up still relatively sane when finished?
If you have, all advice is welcome. Where do I even start?
My simplest material is my Nova Scotia (even with colour varieties, I've managed to work those ones out) and PEI.
So for now, once again, my QV will sit in their stock pages looking very pretty for yet another day (or decade).
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Poodle Mum:
I am big on Queen Victoria (recently read a 1960's era door-stopper of a biography)
and have more of her stamps than I am prepared to admit publicly. She is the personality
that ranks as my favourite on postage stamps (Queen Elizabeth II is my second choice).
Yes, agreed, distinguishing one Victoria from another can be (almost) impossible.
What I do when I come to a cross-roads with no clear ID signage, is simply make a
judgement based on the evidence, or otherwise, available to me. Then, it's posted
to my album and I no longer worry about it.
No one else on this planet worries about it either.
My suggestion: that you confront this personal issue head on. "The only
time you own is now." Nothing is more satisfying than the untroubled sleep
of a contented stamp collector.
John Derry
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I actually don't find it any different than my approach in general, which is to be systematic and as logical as possible. I also don't flyspeck for design variations, printing methods, different types solely based on what year it is printed (as with the Washington and Franklin series), etc. Maybe it's me but I don't find typing these as daunting overall as some other areas (like aforementioned WA/Franklins, or Machins, or some KE7 and KGV variations; the latter drive me nuts with the chalky vs. regular paper, color variations, etc.)
So I start my QV classification by sorting by issuing entity and within each of those I sort by design using Gibbons. I find the Gibbons catalogue system gives a more detailed listing, and I also cross check with the Scott Specialized Classic; sometimes one has something listed that the other doesn't. I don't use the regular Scott to classify my Vickies; it isn't thorough enough.
Once sorted by design, I take each design and check for the most distinguishing feature, whether a watermark, plate number, or perf, then the next most defining, etc. For GB penny blacks and reds, for example, it is perf vs. imperf, then plate number. For Australian States, I find it easier to do WM first then perfs. Color variation doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with QV stamps, IMHO, for which I am very thankful!
For my main collecting areas of Hong Kong and GB QV stamps, I also use specialized books. For HK I use Webb and for GB I use the QV specialized Gibbons book.
Hope this helps.
Peter
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07:52:11am
".... like aforementioned WA/Franklins, or Machins, or some KE7 and KGV variations; the latter drive me nuts ...."
One of the seemingly under utilized indicators when working on apparently identical Machins is the value setting.
These are listed in the Machin handbook and I find it immensely helpful to make the measurements as I work my way sorting and identifying the little buggers.
When produced, the image of the Queen was prepared first and often shared between printers, then the value was inserted on the various master stamp images for printing. Thus the distance from the left edge to the number or the bottom edge to the number is very often different for different printings of the same color/value stamp.
This may be why my vision has begun to deteriorate these last years along with what sometimes passes for sanity.
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If you want to add to the insanity, get a Stanley Gibbons Specialised Vol I.....
I found mine at Abe Books fo $6.00 in excellent condition
Seriously, it will help (somewhat)
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Poodle Mum,
If you are intent on sorting, and remaining as sane as any stamp collector can be, the Stanley Gibbons Queen Victoria Specialised is almost a must for GB stamps.
Of course, sanity could be saved by just putting them all in a big box and posting them to me, then all you need worry about is my sanity.
I suspect that my kind offer won't be accepted, so have a great time - the old engraved stamps are the most beautiful of all stamps.
Merv
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06:12:21pm
Thanks guys!
Merv - if you could give me a guarantee that after you neatly catalogue them you return them to me, sure LOL Just hand 'em over? Nah, I haven't reached that level of insanity yet!
I'll look into the QV specialised for sure.
Kelly
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Note that the Gibbons QV specialised catalogue is only for GB stamps. You might consult the Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps Catalogue or even the Scott Classic Specialized Catalogue for other countries. And then there's the whole wonderful field of QV revenues! Barefoot Commonwealth for those.
Are we having fun yet?
Peter
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07:55:28pm
OY Peter! Just when I was starting to like you ........ LOL
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Not a problem Kelly.
It all depends on how specific you want to type some of these. I know someone who collects GB stamps who is content with a single very nice margin Penny Black; he couldn't care less what plate it was or if it was deep black or "just" black. Another friend specializes in South Africa and all those colonies and territories that became the RSA; he does get into the variations, post marks, etc.
Risking further alienation, here are two more references that might be helpful.
You mentioned the Australian States. The Seven Seas Stamp Catalogue can give a bit more specific information too.
Lastly, any of the Robson Lowe "Encyclopaedia of British Empire Postage Stamps" books have good details about the QV era.
Cheers,
Peter
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I have done at one time a lot of QV cataloging, but to be fair I enjoy flyspecking, too, and that is not everyone's cup of tea. You need a lot patience and watermark fluid, good lighting and magnification, perf gauges, and some catalogs besides just scott. I keep around an old Gibbons British Commonwealth catalogue from 1983 that I use only for classic stamps. For GB, I also have the QV Specialized Catalogue. I have a Drusden-White catalogue for Australia and states, a Campbell Paterson for NZ, just bought the gibbons India Specialized catalogue for India.
And a Gibbons color key that I am quite disappointed in , since many colors that Gibbons uses quite a bit in their catalogue are not represented on their color key.
As another collector here stated, even with all tools, some of the stamps you just have to give your best guess. But it can be quite enjoyable with the right patience and research.
I just wish I had more time to spend on this.
Lately my job has been taking too much of my time.
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It can be tricky cataloguing Australian Colonial stamps; I have some that go as far back as 1853 and all are proofs,they were printed when Tasmania was still known as Van Diemen's Land and the only attraction was that Van Diemen's Land was still an island of servitude (The actual prison was at Port Arthur).
In the Tasmanian department I selected only the scarce and rare issues, there isn't that many and they are relatively easy to catalogue, providing you can tell colours (my only problem is my partially colour blindness, I cannot identify mixed colours).
To actually understand Colonial stamps, or any Australian stamp for that matter is to read the right books; the Seven Seas Stamp Catalogue is okay if you want to identify an Aussie stamp, but remember, it is only a simplified catalogue, it will only show you ordinary issues; it will not show specimens, paper types, perforation and specimen variations, proofs, colour trials etc.
If it's just simplified information you seek then the Seven Seas Catalogue is the book to read.
You would need to read the Australian Commonwealth Specialists Catalogue (ACSC) to get detailed information of an Australian stamp. Each monarch has their own catalogue, there are currently 4 to Queen Elizabeth II (1952-1966; 1966-1975; 1975-1991; 1992-2001).
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06:35:48pm
" ... the Australian Commonwealth Specialists Catalogue (ACSC) to get detailed information of an Australian stamp. Each monarch has their own catalogue, there are currently 4 to Queen Elizabeth II (1952-1966; 1966-1975; 1975-1991; 1992-2001). ..."
I have an almost complete set of the Billig's Handbooks ( 42/44ths anyway ) which includes the British Empire series by Robson Lowe, so I am wondering if anyone who has both of these extensive series, can they opine how they compare?
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The ACSC (Australian Commonwealth Specialists' Catalogue) is very detailed but it does not cover issues from the individual states (apart from postage dues from New South Wales and Victoria).
In particular, the first two volumes cover just the Kangaroo and King George V head designs listing a huge number of plate varieties.
Here's a link to the terrible web site of the ACSC publisher, Brusden-White, which lists the various volumes:
http://www.brusden-white.com.au/index.html
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I used Gibbons and the Seven Seas for a quick reference and more contemporary pricing. But I go to Lowe's Encyclopedia sets for more precise identification in many cases.
Peter
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Apologies, it is correct that the ACSC does not include the Victorian era, though Stanley Gibbons does. I have noticed catalogues I have never heard of, will need to find them and have a good read.
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It is important to note that with QV stamps it is not necessary to own the latest catalogue.Seeing as there will be no new QV stamps issued any time soon, apart from the very occasional new discovery ( they are probably the most-studied stamps in the world) the only thing that changes is the catalogue value and they are so removed from reality that they are almost irrelevant.
Even the most specialised Scott is far too limiting.For GB and Australia I would concur with the above and for New Zealand Campbell-Paterson is the one to go with.Other countries are best studied with appropriate specialist society material - however more simplified ( but not really simplified) are the Commonwealth area catalogues issued by Gibbons.
There is a specialised discussion board called "Mulready" which despite it's name is for all things GB/QV and not just Mulready envelopes. I have visited it from time to time but it is in reality far above my punching-weight. Membership is now by invitation and so you my have to do some lobbying.
Judicious visits to on-line catalogues of the more prestigious auction houses repay - but feebay and the likes have too much misidentified stuff to be reliable ( although by no means all is misidentified - you just need to be an expert before you visit which really defeats the object).If you google" GB penny black" or similar ( choose your own wording/subject) you will get more hits than you can handle. A lot of them will be dross but there will be enough interesting sites to keep you busy.
You should also realise that 99% of what you own is likely to be the cheapest variety of each stamp, but there must still be thousands of stamps out there that are are unidentified or misidentifed - especially in old unsorted collections.
All these comments can be taken to a greater or lesser extent to all periods and all countries except that for cheap stamps you can use e-bay etc for a tentative ID. Also the Google picture feature can be useful although there are a lot of irrelevancies there.
Malcolm
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
19 Feb 2014
10:02:28pm
Ok - tonight, Genius here decided it would be a great idea to pull out my Queen Victoria binder and attempt to catalogue. Key word "attempt".
After 30 minutes, I thought I'd go insane. At first I started with Australian States - yeah, right! Same stamp, different watermarks, paper types, etc. So I flip through Scott only to discover that some of the other countries are even worse.
To say nothing about Great Britain and having to figure out Plate #s.
Has anyone seriously gone through their QV collection, catalogued it and ended up still relatively sane when finished?
If you have, all advice is welcome. Where do I even start?
My simplest material is my Nova Scotia (even with colour varieties, I've managed to work those ones out) and PEI.
So for now, once again, my QV will sit in their stock pages looking very pretty for yet another day (or decade).
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
19 Feb 2014
11:18:53pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Poodle Mum:
I am big on Queen Victoria (recently read a 1960's era door-stopper of a biography)
and have more of her stamps than I am prepared to admit publicly. She is the personality
that ranks as my favourite on postage stamps (Queen Elizabeth II is my second choice).
Yes, agreed, distinguishing one Victoria from another can be (almost) impossible.
What I do when I come to a cross-roads with no clear ID signage, is simply make a
judgement based on the evidence, or otherwise, available to me. Then, it's posted
to my album and I no longer worry about it.
No one else on this planet worries about it either.
My suggestion: that you confront this personal issue head on. "The only
time you own is now." Nothing is more satisfying than the untroubled sleep
of a contented stamp collector.
John Derry
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
05:58:13am
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
I actually don't find it any different than my approach in general, which is to be systematic and as logical as possible. I also don't flyspeck for design variations, printing methods, different types solely based on what year it is printed (as with the Washington and Franklin series), etc. Maybe it's me but I don't find typing these as daunting overall as some other areas (like aforementioned WA/Franklins, or Machins, or some KE7 and KGV variations; the latter drive me nuts with the chalky vs. regular paper, color variations, etc.)
So I start my QV classification by sorting by issuing entity and within each of those I sort by design using Gibbons. I find the Gibbons catalogue system gives a more detailed listing, and I also cross check with the Scott Specialized Classic; sometimes one has something listed that the other doesn't. I don't use the regular Scott to classify my Vickies; it isn't thorough enough.
Once sorted by design, I take each design and check for the most distinguishing feature, whether a watermark, plate number, or perf, then the next most defining, etc. For GB penny blacks and reds, for example, it is perf vs. imperf, then plate number. For Australian States, I find it easier to do WM first then perfs. Color variation doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with QV stamps, IMHO, for which I am very thankful!
For my main collecting areas of Hong Kong and GB QV stamps, I also use specialized books. For HK I use Webb and for GB I use the QV specialized Gibbons book.
Hope this helps.
Peter
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Feb 2014
07:52:11am
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
".... like aforementioned WA/Franklins, or Machins, or some KE7 and KGV variations; the latter drive me nuts ...."
One of the seemingly under utilized indicators when working on apparently identical Machins is the value setting.
These are listed in the Machin handbook and I find it immensely helpful to make the measurements as I work my way sorting and identifying the little buggers.
When produced, the image of the Queen was prepared first and often shared between printers, then the value was inserted on the various master stamp images for printing. Thus the distance from the left edge to the number or the bottom edge to the number is very often different for different printings of the same color/value stamp.
This may be why my vision has begun to deteriorate these last years along with what sometimes passes for sanity.
Login to Like
this post
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
If you want to add to the insanity, get a Stanley Gibbons Specialised Vol I.....
I found mine at Abe Books fo $6.00 in excellent condition
Seriously, it will help (somewhat)
Login to Like
this post
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Poodle Mum,
If you are intent on sorting, and remaining as sane as any stamp collector can be, the Stanley Gibbons Queen Victoria Specialised is almost a must for GB stamps.
Of course, sanity could be saved by just putting them all in a big box and posting them to me, then all you need worry about is my sanity.
I suspect that my kind offer won't be accepted, so have a great time - the old engraved stamps are the most beautiful of all stamps.
Merv
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
20 Feb 2014
06:12:21pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Thanks guys!
Merv - if you could give me a guarantee that after you neatly catalogue them you return them to me, sure LOL Just hand 'em over? Nah, I haven't reached that level of insanity yet!
I'll look into the QV specialised for sure.
Kelly
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07:12:22pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Note that the Gibbons QV specialised catalogue is only for GB stamps. You might consult the Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps Catalogue or even the Scott Classic Specialized Catalogue for other countries. And then there's the whole wonderful field of QV revenues! Barefoot Commonwealth for those.
Are we having fun yet?
Peter
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
20 Feb 2014
07:55:28pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
OY Peter! Just when I was starting to like you ........ LOL
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09:04:13pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Not a problem Kelly.
It all depends on how specific you want to type some of these. I know someone who collects GB stamps who is content with a single very nice margin Penny Black; he couldn't care less what plate it was or if it was deep black or "just" black. Another friend specializes in South Africa and all those colonies and territories that became the RSA; he does get into the variations, post marks, etc.
Risking further alienation, here are two more references that might be helpful.
You mentioned the Australian States. The Seven Seas Stamp Catalogue can give a bit more specific information too.
Lastly, any of the Robson Lowe "Encyclopaedia of British Empire Postage Stamps" books have good details about the QV era.
Cheers,
Peter
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02:07:37pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
I have done at one time a lot of QV cataloging, but to be fair I enjoy flyspecking, too, and that is not everyone's cup of tea. You need a lot patience and watermark fluid, good lighting and magnification, perf gauges, and some catalogs besides just scott. I keep around an old Gibbons British Commonwealth catalogue from 1983 that I use only for classic stamps. For GB, I also have the QV Specialized Catalogue. I have a Drusden-White catalogue for Australia and states, a Campbell Paterson for NZ, just bought the gibbons India Specialized catalogue for India.
And a Gibbons color key that I am quite disappointed in , since many colors that Gibbons uses quite a bit in their catalogue are not represented on their color key.
As another collector here stated, even with all tools, some of the stamps you just have to give your best guess. But it can be quite enjoyable with the right patience and research.
I just wish I had more time to spend on this.
Lately my job has been taking too much of my time.
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re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
It can be tricky cataloguing Australian Colonial stamps; I have some that go as far back as 1853 and all are proofs,they were printed when Tasmania was still known as Van Diemen's Land and the only attraction was that Van Diemen's Land was still an island of servitude (The actual prison was at Port Arthur).
In the Tasmanian department I selected only the scarce and rare issues, there isn't that many and they are relatively easy to catalogue, providing you can tell colours (my only problem is my partially colour blindness, I cannot identify mixed colours).
To actually understand Colonial stamps, or any Australian stamp for that matter is to read the right books; the Seven Seas Stamp Catalogue is okay if you want to identify an Aussie stamp, but remember, it is only a simplified catalogue, it will only show you ordinary issues; it will not show specimens, paper types, perforation and specimen variations, proofs, colour trials etc.
If it's just simplified information you seek then the Seven Seas Catalogue is the book to read.
You would need to read the Australian Commonwealth Specialists Catalogue (ACSC) to get detailed information of an Australian stamp. Each monarch has their own catalogue, there are currently 4 to Queen Elizabeth II (1952-1966; 1966-1975; 1975-1991; 1992-2001).
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Aug 2015
06:35:48pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
" ... the Australian Commonwealth Specialists Catalogue (ACSC) to get detailed information of an Australian stamp. Each monarch has their own catalogue, there are currently 4 to Queen Elizabeth II (1952-1966; 1966-1975; 1975-1991; 1992-2001). ..."
I have an almost complete set of the Billig's Handbooks ( 42/44ths anyway ) which includes the British Empire series by Robson Lowe, so I am wondering if anyone who has both of these extensive series, can they opine how they compare?
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re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
The ACSC (Australian Commonwealth Specialists' Catalogue) is very detailed but it does not cover issues from the individual states (apart from postage dues from New South Wales and Victoria).
In particular, the first two volumes cover just the Kangaroo and King George V head designs listing a huge number of plate varieties.
Here's a link to the terrible web site of the ACSC publisher, Brusden-White, which lists the various volumes:
http://www.brusden-white.com.au/index.html
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08:47:06pm
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
I used Gibbons and the Seven Seas for a quick reference and more contemporary pricing. But I go to Lowe's Encyclopedia sets for more precise identification in many cases.
Peter
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re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
Apologies, it is correct that the ACSC does not include the Victorian era, though Stanley Gibbons does. I have noticed catalogues I have never heard of, will need to find them and have a good read.
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07:17:25am
re: Queen Victoria - Need Advice to Keep My Sanity
It is important to note that with QV stamps it is not necessary to own the latest catalogue.Seeing as there will be no new QV stamps issued any time soon, apart from the very occasional new discovery ( they are probably the most-studied stamps in the world) the only thing that changes is the catalogue value and they are so removed from reality that they are almost irrelevant.
Even the most specialised Scott is far too limiting.For GB and Australia I would concur with the above and for New Zealand Campbell-Paterson is the one to go with.Other countries are best studied with appropriate specialist society material - however more simplified ( but not really simplified) are the Commonwealth area catalogues issued by Gibbons.
There is a specialised discussion board called "Mulready" which despite it's name is for all things GB/QV and not just Mulready envelopes. I have visited it from time to time but it is in reality far above my punching-weight. Membership is now by invitation and so you my have to do some lobbying.
Judicious visits to on-line catalogues of the more prestigious auction houses repay - but feebay and the likes have too much misidentified stuff to be reliable ( although by no means all is misidentified - you just need to be an expert before you visit which really defeats the object).If you google" GB penny black" or similar ( choose your own wording/subject) you will get more hits than you can handle. A lot of them will be dross but there will be enough interesting sites to keep you busy.
You should also realise that 99% of what you own is likely to be the cheapest variety of each stamp, but there must still be thousands of stamps out there that are are unidentified or misidentifed - especially in old unsorted collections.
All these comments can be taken to a greater or lesser extent to all periods and all countries except that for cheap stamps you can use e-bay etc for a tentative ID. Also the Google picture feature can be useful although there are a lot of irrelevancies there.
Malcolm
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