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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Help ID Stamp and Postmark

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mbo1142
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06 Feb 2014
07:59:25pm
Believe this may be a cut square from an envelope or a wrapper, but have no idea from which country. Also any information on the postmark would be appreciated.

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Sorry for the large size, I am still learning how to use the scanning software. And yes that is a crease running across the stamp.

Mel
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khj
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06 Feb 2014
09:42:28pm
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

The cancel is a triangular handstamp for the West Central District Office in London, hence "WC". Also called triangular mark/cancel/postmark.

Regarding the stamp, it is definitely a cut square from either a postal card or wrapper (same basic design appears in both formats). I don't know if there were any minor design differences between the card and wrapper versions. I don't know the issue date and I don't have a catalog that covers it. I'll see if I can pilfer a pic of the entire.

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khj
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06 Feb 2014
10:06:15pm
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

Here is a pilfered pic of the post card entire...
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and one of the wrapper entire...
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Rhinelander
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06 Feb 2014
11:29:27pm
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

Hi Mel,

I only know these triangular postmarks as postmarking dials of machine cancels used on bulk mail. Similar as in the U.S. third class advertizing mail was not required to be dated. In GB this was often accomplished by exchanging the regular postmarking dial for a simple triangle indicating the originating P.O. in coded form. I wouldn't doubt that handstamps in triangular form also exist; I am not really an expert in British postmarks. However, the usage on mass mailings suggests that machine cancel are probably more common. While the below examples show the triangle on the left, the killer and postmarking positions could also be reversed.

Arno

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khj
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07 Feb 2014
12:11:31am
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

Good point, Arno! Arno is correct, the triangle cancels from the machine cancels are far more common and will appear to the left of the line/slogan... cancel. Triangles on machine cancels were first used on the Columbia machine in 1904 (replacing the circular date cancel on this machine). Unless there are multiples or the stamp was affixed to the left of normal position, it is not common to see the triangle part of the machine cancel "socked-on-the-nose". {EDIT: Although I did not realize that the triangle/killer positions could be reversed -- that's new info to me, thanks Arno.}

I didn't bother trying to match the cancel to a known machine cancel or handstamp. I admit I took a short cut and concluded it was a handstamp because of the postal stationery.

In 1892, typed letters, post cards, wrappers... could be mailed at the lower printed matter rate. The triangular handstamp/cancel was used on typed material sent at printed matter rate. This doubled as a indicator that the post office reserved the right to inspect the mailing to make sure it conformed to the printed matter rate requirements. With the use of the machine cancels starting in 1904, triangular handstamp usage became less and less common but continued into the 1930s.

Since the stamp shown was clearly postal stationery with socked-on-the-nose triangular cancel, I sort of "assumed" it was a triangular handstamp and not a machine cancel.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures as I generally do not collect postmarks nor postal stationery.

k

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khj
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07 Feb 2014
12:17:15am
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

For those of you who might be interested, the above information on triangular cancels is from "London postmarks used on printed matter and parcels from 1860" by Curt N. Fernau (translated from German by P. E. Robinson).

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Feb 2014
01:55:00pm
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

Here is a pretty neat power point presentation that anyone discovering the exciting sub-category of collecting postal cancellations ought to enjoy;
Cancellations

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nigelc
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07 Feb 2014
03:21:30pm
re: Help ID Stamp and Postmark

Different dies of the George V ½d stamp were used at different times but they're not easy to distinguish unless you have the items in front of you or have very clear scans.

One difference that is relatively easy to see is that between the stamps on official stationery ("Post Office Issues") and those on "Stamped to Order Issues" (which were privately produced stationery officially stamped for a fee).

If you look at the "Encyclopaedia Britannica" postcard which Kim has posted you may be able to see a small white stop after the word "HALFPENNY". This indicates that it's a stamped to order item. The same is true for the other rectangular values on George V wrappers and postcards.

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