09:36:44am
"2. NO Advertising!
This message board is for discussion purposes. Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator, so you would be wasting your time posting. If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts. Our policy in summation: "Contribute and be discrete, and you are welcome. Dump your advertising on us and you are welcome to leave"."
Sentence two states that "Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator..." I interpret this to mean that a reference to a specifically named company (or providing a link thereto) for the purpose of purchasing or selling stamps, supplies or other philatelically related matter is prohibited. I will attempt to delete only that portion of the post which identifies the named entity. My suggestion here is to communicate specific names, addresses or web links directly to the individual requesting same via email or SOR message. Alternatively, and to aid the membership at large, submit the link to Stamporama’s link section.
Sentence three states that “If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts.†This means that you may not promote your SOR auctions or approval books in a post on the discussion board; or reference in a post your stores or auctions on other sites. If you want to provide a link to your online store or another site where you have material for sale, trade or otherwise, “...do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts.†(This is done on your profile page).
It is not my intent to stifle free expression on this board. SOR really doesn’t have that many rules, and the rules we do have are not secret; you will not be ambushed as persons are on other sites. Plus, you can challenge those rules - but do it in the right place and to the right people! Moderators do not make the rules, and moderators on SOR are members and are subject to the same rules as everyone else. And, yes, I have on occasion messed up and inadvertently violated a rule, and have been called on it.
Sincerely
Bobby
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Bobby,
Let me get this straight-you are a traffic light. Are you saying that there are motorists who are cussing out the traffic light? We have all been stopped by traffic lights-the traffic light does not need to defend itself. It does what it does.
For those who must cuss, then on SOR we have a 'Steamroom' for that. In the car, we have our spouses. Ought we to consider a special post area for those who need to rant at the traffic light? (Of course this post is not properly placed, but I am confident that you, our traffic light, will repost it where it should be.)
Thank you for all that you have done and are doing.
Dan C.
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11:58:28am
Dan
This is not a rant and I am not blowing off steam. I believe this is club business and as such it needs to be prominently placed and discussed. I am not whining about my role as moderator ("traffic light"), but rather attempting to educate those members who have not read the rules, or did and do not understand the language therein. I also need them to know that if they want the rules changed, they need to address the VC, not me.
I am not passing the buck as I am not the party who drafted the rules, but I am the one receiving emails and SOR messages from those who did, pointing out rule violations I would just as soon pass over. I, personally, sympathize with many of those posting. Were I on the VC, I would be yelling and screaming for a clear, concise, codified set of rules which are not subject to interpretation and which could be enforced by simply referring the offending party to Rule #__ when modifications are made to posts by moderators.
As it sets now, I believe that many members are gun shy and afraid to post for fear that I will come in and "red ink" their post. I do not want that sort of ambiguity either as a moderator or a member.
If I am being insubordinate, well, I apologize. I am often the "fool" Mark Twain referenced in the quote under my username to the left of this post. Unfortunately, I am also OCD and as such I cannot keep my voice (or keyboard) silent when there is a "squeaky wheel" and a can of grease is within easy reach.
And no, I am not trying to start a "tea party" movement, just open a dialog.
Sincerely,
Bobby
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Bobby,
If my post gave you the impression that I was faulting you in any way, I must apologize for my being inarticulate. I do not consider your points to be a rant/rave/tea party revolt/whine/buckpassing/insubordinate in any way.
You are identifying issues that need addressing. Doing so will only help our club. Clearly you take your job very seriously, as do all our volunteers. You have been left in an awkward position, which causes you stress and which we at the VC need to address. Your careful articulation of the points was/is appreciated, and now the VC needs to address them.
"Were I on the VC, I would be yelling and screaming for a clear, concise, codified set of rules which are not subject to interpretation and which could be enforced by simply referring the offending party to Rule #__ when modifications are made to posts by moderators."
Your second point is also in need of addressing:
"As it sets now, I believe that many members are gun shy and afraid to post for fear that I will come in and "red ink" their post. I do not want that sort of ambiguity either as a moderator or a member."
Thank you for the wakeup call-This will go on the VC agenda promptly.
Best,
Dan C.
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I see posts from members who do not participate in discussions all that often. They tend to end their postings by saying things such as, "I hope I didn't violate any posting rules and my post doesn't get deleted", "I don't post that much because I'm afraid I'll get a message from a moderator that I violated the rules", and things like that.
My thoughts are that moderators need to moderate and not be dictatorial. If the rules are too vague as Dan suggests, then let's review them and remove any ambiguity so everyone knows for sure what's expected. Perhaps the roles of the moderators need to be reviewed to lesson the "overlord" impression of their roles that some members have so that we can get more participation in the discussions.
Sometimes it reminds me of an old elementary school teacher who walks up and down the rows of desks and slaps students who giggle or say anything seemingly out of line. That's not the way to stimulate participation or enjoyment of the club. We don't operate under "Robert's Rule of Order". Let's lighten up and have fun instead.
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Agreed Michael,
One small correction-it was Bobby who identified the need to review the rules and to make them sharper/clearer. I just quoted his observations, but I see where it could easily be misread as if they were mine.
Dan C.
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Lets not be too thin skinned..i am sure that more people would like to join in the discussions..no reason to fear..be like me..take your beating and move on !
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Bobby1948 - thanks for all you do to keep Stamporama going the right direction. You have a tough position but maybe it will get easier if the VC can clarify what is acceptable and what isn't.
Just wanted to let you know that you do have support from others.....
Sally
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I'm a new member here (but have read SOR for long time), so likely I don't know what I'm stepping in or talking about, but here's my few cents worth.
Yes. I've read the rules. And I do agree with their spirit. But there are times when the rules (and how they are interpret) feel like line drawn to sand/water, and that is why I'm very cautious on what I write/share on SOR. Some examples...
I would have never started a discussion about Steiner vs. Palo pages, as both are commercial products and I would have feared of of stepping over some invisible fence. For the same reasons, I'll likely never start a SOR discussion about anything else but stamps (or something totally off-topic) . That said, it's not necessarily a bad thing 
It's also very likely that I'll never share any links or resources I know on SOR discussions. Again, I'm worried that it might link to resource that would be deemed commercial (even my personal stamp blog is 'commercial' in a sense). For me this is the biggest woe, as linking and sharing knowledge is what Internet is all about.
But rant over & out... The bottom line is we've all agreed with service rules when we signed up. The best we can do is to learn to live with them and enjoy the chatter.
All in all I'm more than happy with the work ALL moderators here do.
-k-
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My cardiologist just called and asked me to keep out of this discussion !!
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There have been lengthy discussions in the VC about this particular subject matter (it has been discussed ad nauseam) and my interpretation of the rules has always been that it is not allowed to promote your own business on the DB, whether this is a regular (web-based) business or your own auctions and/or approval books. This is pretty straight forward. The "advertising" in general is more difficult to judge. A discussion that compares album pages or catalogues is harmless, unless it takes the form of "go buy your catalogues here (link)"
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"It's also very likely that I'll never share any links or resources I know on SOR discussions. Again, I'm worried that it might link to resource that would be deemed commercial (even my personal stamp blog is 'commercial' in a sense)."
You can put this type of link in the Links section; if in doubt, submit it and one of the moderators will review the site (mostly for access and dead links). Now, what is not clear to me is whether you can inform the membership of such a link in the Links section; I've seen it done, but mostly for non-commercial sites. I've also seen people post links to eBay items for discussion; is that not an advertisement for eBay? This is where the rules get murky for me.
Peter
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SCB,Londonbus,Peter,
Your points are well taken and will be addressed by the VC in their discussions.
JanSimon,
Jump to the VC discussion board to continue.
Thanks all for your observations. They are important.
Dan C.
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"I am not whining about my role as moderator ("traffic light"), but rather attempting to educate those members who have not read the rules, or did and do not understand the language therein. I also need them to know that if they want the rules changed, they need to address the VC, not me."
I am one of those members who believe the forum rule regarding advertising and self-promotion may need to be tightened up a tad; accordingly, I offer the following for the Volunteer Committee's consideration:
As I mentioned to Bobby in response to an email he sent me, I think that policies that are open to interpretation will beget myriad interpretations. As such, they are a disservice to those who must comply with and/or enforce them.
I didn't/don't read sentences 2 and 3 of the rule on advertising and self-promotion as being separate and distinct but rather that they are inter-related. If they are to be considered separately then present them as stand alone rules.
A key metric (from my perspective) in determining whether or not material posted violates the advertising or self-promotion rule is intent. In response to a member's post seeking information regarding the disposal of a collection, I posted contact information for a firm that I thought might be able to provide the desired service to the member. I have no financial interest in the firm, nor do I have a personal or professional relationship with anyone associated with the firm. My "intent" was solely to be helpful. As such, I didn't consider the information to be a violation of the rule, just as I don't consider the threads addressing bidstart, ebay, stanley gibbons, etc., ad nausaum, as promotions of those commercial interests.
Thanks for listening,
Steve
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Steve,
Nice & point taken. It will be discussed.
Well done,
Dan C.
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Well I've been out of the loop too long. I missed all the earlier discussions on this topic. I didn't even realize there was a problem (or potential problem).
I don't recall ever having a link from any of my posts removed. So I guess I'll just keep on doing what I've been doing. If any links get removed in a future post, I'll adjust my posting habits accordingly.
I guess the key is that we don't get upset if one of our links gets deleted. It's not like losing a stamp or piece of selvage...
k
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The VC, you know, those guys behind the curtains, have looked at the rules on advertising and self promotion. In the interest of removing the potential for ambiguity and to give moderators a clearer picture of what is intended, we have revised those rules by adding a second paragraph to the section on advertising and self promotion. They follow at the end of this.
Our goal is to promote discussion and to allow members to help one another; sometimes that will include giving specifics about individuals or companies or whatever that an individual might find helpful in pursuit of a purpose, whether it be buying, selling, researching, or whatever.
We still want to avoid self-promotion at all costs; we do not want this to be the cork board at the supermarket.
So, taaaadaaaaa..... the revised rules... section 2.
NO Advertising!
This message board is for discussion purposes. Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator, so you would be wasting your time posting. If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts. Our policy in summation: "Contribute and be discrete, and you are welcome. Dump your advertising on us and you are welcome to leave".
Individuals MAY include discussions of dealers, suppliers, auction houses, and others who deal in philatelic products, as well as the products themselves. While we don't allow advertising or self-promotion, we think it a service to share our experiences with those who are asking related questions. When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements that answer questions posed. Ad hominem attacks are forbidden. Focus on those suppliers with whom you've had positive experiences; allow silence to speak for itself except when specific information on policies or business models help to understand what another is likely to encounter
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11:01:04am
Yes - Yes -Yes - Yes -Yes!
Thank you from myself and my fellow moderators to the VC for their quick and resoundingly thorough response to my plea for clarification to the Rules regarding Advertising. I have had many moments of internal conflict over the application of this rule, but no more. While still permitting a lot of discretion by the moderators, the revision of the rule now eliminates the air of ambiguity that encompassed the previous version, and, I believe, will permit more freedom to post and less worry on the part of the members about what they are permitted to post.
To the members: Please do not refrain from posting for fear of breaking one of the rules. Moderators are here to facilitate open discussion, not stifle it. It is my belief that the short list of Rules as amended (CLICK HERE to read them) are very understandable and unambiguous. If, however, you want an opinion prior to posting, feel free to contact a moderator for advice. Your moderators for this board are myself, lisagrant87, capestampman, and jansimon.
To one and all, Thanks for your continued participation in the discussion board!
Bobby
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The revised rules make good sense — congrats to the author(s). 
A suggestion: The new rules state, "When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements that answer questions posed." This seems to preclude posts that don't "answer questions posted," which I doubt was the intent. I suggest editing the sentence so that it reads, "When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements."
Bob
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From a general lurker and only occasional poster, thanks for the clarifications and kudos to the VC and the moderators.
Roger
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Regarding the wording of the rules, I would only suggest changing the spelling of "discretely" to "discreetly" and "discrete" to "discreet"....g
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I think Gerald has a good point. Discrete and discreet are different words with different meanings. As far as I am aware we meant to say "careful(ly)" or "prudent(ly)" and not "seperate(ly)", so it should be discreet.
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06:35:05am
I didn't catch that! Thanks, Gerald!
When used in the third sentence, the word "discretely" should only be used if the meaning implied is "separate and apart" from the body of the post; if the meaning implied is "careful and prudent," then "discreetly" should be used. Likewise in the next to last sentence of the first paragraph, if the phrase "Contribute and be discrete..." means contribute but keep any promotion of your business or website separate from your post, then the use of discrete is correct, whereas if the meaning is contribute but be careful and prudent in the promotion of your business or website, then discreet should be used.
Since I do not know the intent of the VC here, I will allow them to address this. Should the spelling be changed or not? This may seem like a minor point, but as Gerald implies, words have power and should be used correctly.
The English teacher bows to the professor! Â 
Thanks again Gerald.
Bobby
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06:37:06am
I was typing my post when Jansimon was posting his! We have our answer.
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07:28:29am
I am quite sure that:
" .... I think that policies that are open to interpretation will beget myriad interpretations....."
is a quote from an e-mail young Jim Madison sent old Tommy Jefferson about 227 years ago right after he dreamed up how to make a winking smiley face.
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That pretty well clarifies the issue, without leaving any confusion. Excellent job everyone.
Mike
I thought I had read something in one of Nostradamus's quatrains about the "Smiley Face" appearing from the West.....but could be mistaken about that. 
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I am so glad to read this. This was one thing that was hanging over my head since I moved here. I am not a dealer, seller, agent, etc., but sometimes a link can be very illustrative. I'm glad the rules were updated and, more importantly, that Bobby shows such understanding and compassion as a moderator. We are a fairly lucky bunch, I would say!
Lars
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Lars made an acute observation that I wanted to reinforce. We ARE a "lucky bunch" to have a moderator who
"shows such understanding and compassion "
further, we're blessed with a membership that can appreciate that.
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I don't know if this is the right forum to bring this up ,but for some reason every time I come on to stamporama several individual words are appearing in green and are double underlined if you put your mouse pointer on them you get a popup add.
I am running Spyware blaster Malwarebytes and spybot .
Does any have an idea how to stop them? Please I am assuming they are nothing to do with the board.
Brian
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06:39:29pm
Brian
Next time you see one, message me with particulars and I will check it out. It certainly should not be happening. It does sound like some kind of malware or adware, and if it is, I'm sure Tim can handle it.
Bobby
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It's adware.
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Bobby, people like you make me glad to be a member here. Thanks!
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snowy 12,
I had that before. It was malware. I had to take it to a guy and he had to remove 47 files/programs that it had infiltrated. It will get worse in time and for me it prevented uploading pictures for my auctions. After you get it fixed make sure your protection package blocks malware. I had the guy load Casperson (SP?)and I have not had any problems since.
Pat
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09:09:15pm
Brian
I doubt the bug came from SOR. It probably piggy-backed onto an email you received from another member or was somehow already lurking in your system until something (I know not what) activated it. From postmarks remarks, it does not appear it will go away on its own.
You need to install a program to identify and remove it. Do a Google search using the phrase "malware removal" and you will find many self-help suggestions, both free and commercial products.
Bobby
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Hi Brian,
Clear the cache, history and cookies in your browser. Getting rid of all that background stuff may get rid of it for you.
Regards ... Tim
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I have a small program, Advanced System Care that removes/stops most malware. There is a free version that is good, but the Pro version (upgrade cost me all of $23.95) is better and works faster. For really stubborn malware, try Malwarebytes, another freebie. It is thorough, but takes a long time to run, so I generally run it overnight. I had thought I was malware free, but the computer began to run very slow, so an ASC scan found and removed 1--now it's running fast again. A quick Google search will get links for both. Or try Downloads.com.
Roger
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Chances are its adware. I had this before and removed it quite easily, without resorting to checking for boot sector problems or Trojans etc.
If you have more than one browser installed, say IE, Chrome and/or Firefox, see if the ads appear in one browser.
Typically these ads are caused by an Add-On to your browser, often a Coupon add-on. Might be called "coupon saver, "getsavin", "SweetPacks", "solid savings" or any other such nonsense. Check your browser add-ons and disable any you don't want.
Often you can unsubscribe to ads. You could click on one, right click the ad and unsubscribe if you can or maybe even disable the addon. Not sure this entirely works for this problem but I thought that was one avenue I tried when I had this problem.
If you are using Internet Explorer you could run it in the no Add-On mode to check. See this link for info: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/tips/manage-add-ons.
Other browsers should have similar features.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
03 Feb 2014
09:36:44am
I have been challenged several times of late by my rulings on advertisements and self promotion. Until I am instructed otherwise by the rule making body (the Volunteer Committee), I will enforce the following rule literally, and will read sentences two and three of that rule separately and apart, interpreting the intent of same to constitute two unique rules, both of which are meant to be enforced.
"2. NO Advertising!
This message board is for discussion purposes. Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator, so you would be wasting your time posting. If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts. Our policy in summation: "Contribute and be discrete, and you are welcome. Dump your advertising on us and you are welcome to leave"."
Sentence two states that "Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator..." I interpret this to mean that a reference to a specifically named company (or providing a link thereto) for the purpose of purchasing or selling stamps, supplies or other philatelically related matter is prohibited. I will attempt to delete only that portion of the post which identifies the named entity. My suggestion here is to communicate specific names, addresses or web links directly to the individual requesting same via email or SOR message. Alternatively, and to aid the membership at large, submit the link to Stamporama’s link section.
Sentence three states that “If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts.†This means that you may not promote your SOR auctions or approval books in a post on the discussion board; or reference in a post your stores or auctions on other sites. If you want to provide a link to your online store or another site where you have material for sale, trade or otherwise, “...do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts.†(This is done on your profile page).
It is not my intent to stifle free expression on this board. SOR really doesn’t have that many rules, and the rules we do have are not secret; you will not be ambushed as persons are on other sites. Plus, you can challenge those rules - but do it in the right place and to the right people! Moderators do not make the rules, and moderators on SOR are members and are subject to the same rules as everyone else. And, yes, I have on occasion messed up and inadvertently violated a rule, and have been called on it.
Sincerely
Bobby
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Bobby,
Let me get this straight-you are a traffic light. Are you saying that there are motorists who are cussing out the traffic light? We have all been stopped by traffic lights-the traffic light does not need to defend itself. It does what it does.
For those who must cuss, then on SOR we have a 'Steamroom' for that. In the car, we have our spouses. Ought we to consider a special post area for those who need to rant at the traffic light? (Of course this post is not properly placed, but I am confident that you, our traffic light, will repost it where it should be.)
Thank you for all that you have done and are doing.
Dan C.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
03 Feb 2014
11:58:28am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Dan
This is not a rant and I am not blowing off steam. I believe this is club business and as such it needs to be prominently placed and discussed. I am not whining about my role as moderator ("traffic light"), but rather attempting to educate those members who have not read the rules, or did and do not understand the language therein. I also need them to know that if they want the rules changed, they need to address the VC, not me.
I am not passing the buck as I am not the party who drafted the rules, but I am the one receiving emails and SOR messages from those who did, pointing out rule violations I would just as soon pass over. I, personally, sympathize with many of those posting. Were I on the VC, I would be yelling and screaming for a clear, concise, codified set of rules which are not subject to interpretation and which could be enforced by simply referring the offending party to Rule #__ when modifications are made to posts by moderators.
As it sets now, I believe that many members are gun shy and afraid to post for fear that I will come in and "red ink" their post. I do not want that sort of ambiguity either as a moderator or a member.
If I am being insubordinate, well, I apologize. I am often the "fool" Mark Twain referenced in the quote under my username to the left of this post. Unfortunately, I am also OCD and as such I cannot keep my voice (or keyboard) silent when there is a "squeaky wheel" and a can of grease is within easy reach.
And no, I am not trying to start a "tea party" movement, just open a dialog.
Sincerely,
Bobby
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Bobby,
If my post gave you the impression that I was faulting you in any way, I must apologize for my being inarticulate. I do not consider your points to be a rant/rave/tea party revolt/whine/buckpassing/insubordinate in any way.
You are identifying issues that need addressing. Doing so will only help our club. Clearly you take your job very seriously, as do all our volunteers. You have been left in an awkward position, which causes you stress and which we at the VC need to address. Your careful articulation of the points was/is appreciated, and now the VC needs to address them.
"Were I on the VC, I would be yelling and screaming for a clear, concise, codified set of rules which are not subject to interpretation and which could be enforced by simply referring the offending party to Rule #__ when modifications are made to posts by moderators."
Your second point is also in need of addressing:
"As it sets now, I believe that many members are gun shy and afraid to post for fear that I will come in and "red ink" their post. I do not want that sort of ambiguity either as a moderator or a member."
Thank you for the wakeup call-This will go on the VC agenda promptly.
Best,
Dan C.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I see posts from members who do not participate in discussions all that often. They tend to end their postings by saying things such as, "I hope I didn't violate any posting rules and my post doesn't get deleted", "I don't post that much because I'm afraid I'll get a message from a moderator that I violated the rules", and things like that.
My thoughts are that moderators need to moderate and not be dictatorial. If the rules are too vague as Dan suggests, then let's review them and remove any ambiguity so everyone knows for sure what's expected. Perhaps the roles of the moderators need to be reviewed to lesson the "overlord" impression of their roles that some members have so that we can get more participation in the discussions.
Sometimes it reminds me of an old elementary school teacher who walks up and down the rows of desks and slaps students who giggle or say anything seemingly out of line. That's not the way to stimulate participation or enjoyment of the club. We don't operate under "Robert's Rule of Order". Let's lighten up and have fun instead.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Agreed Michael,
One small correction-it was Bobby who identified the need to review the rules and to make them sharper/clearer. I just quoted his observations, but I see where it could easily be misread as if they were mine.
Dan C.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Lets not be too thin skinned..i am sure that more people would like to join in the discussions..no reason to fear..be like me..take your beating and move on !
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Bobby1948 - thanks for all you do to keep Stamporama going the right direction. You have a tough position but maybe it will get easier if the VC can clarify what is acceptable and what isn't.
Just wanted to let you know that you do have support from others.....
Sally
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I'm a new member here (but have read SOR for long time), so likely I don't know what I'm stepping in or talking about, but here's my few cents worth.
Yes. I've read the rules. And I do agree with their spirit. But there are times when the rules (and how they are interpret) feel like line drawn to sand/water, and that is why I'm very cautious on what I write/share on SOR. Some examples...
I would have never started a discussion about Steiner vs. Palo pages, as both are commercial products and I would have feared of of stepping over some invisible fence. For the same reasons, I'll likely never start a SOR discussion about anything else but stamps (or something totally off-topic) . That said, it's not necessarily a bad thing
It's also very likely that I'll never share any links or resources I know on SOR discussions. Again, I'm worried that it might link to resource that would be deemed commercial (even my personal stamp blog is 'commercial' in a sense). For me this is the biggest woe, as linking and sharing knowledge is what Internet is all about.
But rant over & out... The bottom line is we've all agreed with service rules when we signed up. The best we can do is to learn to live with them and enjoy the chatter.
All in all I'm more than happy with the work ALL moderators here do.
-k-
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
My cardiologist just called and asked me to keep out of this discussion !!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
There have been lengthy discussions in the VC about this particular subject matter (it has been discussed ad nauseam) and my interpretation of the rules has always been that it is not allowed to promote your own business on the DB, whether this is a regular (web-based) business or your own auctions and/or approval books. This is pretty straight forward. The "advertising" in general is more difficult to judge. A discussion that compares album pages or catalogues is harmless, unless it takes the form of "go buy your catalogues here (link)"
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06:36:23am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
"It's also very likely that I'll never share any links or resources I know on SOR discussions. Again, I'm worried that it might link to resource that would be deemed commercial (even my personal stamp blog is 'commercial' in a sense)."
You can put this type of link in the Links section; if in doubt, submit it and one of the moderators will review the site (mostly for access and dead links). Now, what is not clear to me is whether you can inform the membership of such a link in the Links section; I've seen it done, but mostly for non-commercial sites. I've also seen people post links to eBay items for discussion; is that not an advertisement for eBay? This is where the rules get murky for me.
Peter
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
SCB,Londonbus,Peter,
Your points are well taken and will be addressed by the VC in their discussions.
JanSimon,
Jump to the VC discussion board to continue.
Thanks all for your observations. They are important.
Dan C.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
"I am not whining about my role as moderator ("traffic light"), but rather attempting to educate those members who have not read the rules, or did and do not understand the language therein. I also need them to know that if they want the rules changed, they need to address the VC, not me."
I am one of those members who believe the forum rule regarding advertising and self-promotion may need to be tightened up a tad; accordingly, I offer the following for the Volunteer Committee's consideration:
As I mentioned to Bobby in response to an email he sent me, I think that policies that are open to interpretation will beget myriad interpretations. As such, they are a disservice to those who must comply with and/or enforce them.
I didn't/don't read sentences 2 and 3 of the rule on advertising and self-promotion as being separate and distinct but rather that they are inter-related. If they are to be considered separately then present them as stand alone rules.
A key metric (from my perspective) in determining whether or not material posted violates the advertising or self-promotion rule is intent. In response to a member's post seeking information regarding the disposal of a collection, I posted contact information for a firm that I thought might be able to provide the desired service to the member. I have no financial interest in the firm, nor do I have a personal or professional relationship with anyone associated with the firm. My "intent" was solely to be helpful. As such, I didn't consider the information to be a violation of the rule, just as I don't consider the threads addressing bidstart, ebay, stanley gibbons, etc., ad nausaum, as promotions of those commercial interests.
Thanks for listening,
Steve
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Steve,
Nice & point taken. It will be discussed.
Well done,
Dan C.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Well I've been out of the loop too long. I missed all the earlier discussions on this topic. I didn't even realize there was a problem (or potential problem).
I don't recall ever having a link from any of my posts removed. So I guess I'll just keep on doing what I've been doing. If any links get removed in a future post, I'll adjust my posting habits accordingly.
I guess the key is that we don't get upset if one of our links gets deleted. It's not like losing a stamp or piece of selvage...
k
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
The VC, you know, those guys behind the curtains, have looked at the rules on advertising and self promotion. In the interest of removing the potential for ambiguity and to give moderators a clearer picture of what is intended, we have revised those rules by adding a second paragraph to the section on advertising and self promotion. They follow at the end of this.
Our goal is to promote discussion and to allow members to help one another; sometimes that will include giving specifics about individuals or companies or whatever that an individual might find helpful in pursuit of a purpose, whether it be buying, selling, researching, or whatever.
We still want to avoid self-promotion at all costs; we do not want this to be the cork board at the supermarket.
So, taaaadaaaaa..... the revised rules... section 2.
NO Advertising!
This message board is for discussion purposes. Commercial ads are prohibited and will be deleted as soon as seen by a moderator, so you would be wasting your time posting. If you want to promote your business or website, you may do so discretely using a personal statement under your avatar or in your message footer as part of your posts. Our policy in summation: "Contribute and be discrete, and you are welcome. Dump your advertising on us and you are welcome to leave".
Individuals MAY include discussions of dealers, suppliers, auction houses, and others who deal in philatelic products, as well as the products themselves. While we don't allow advertising or self-promotion, we think it a service to share our experiences with those who are asking related questions. When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements that answer questions posed. Ad hominem attacks are forbidden. Focus on those suppliers with whom you've had positive experiences; allow silence to speak for itself except when specific information on policies or business models help to understand what another is likely to encounter
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
05 Feb 2014
11:01:04am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Yes - Yes -Yes - Yes -Yes!
Thank you from myself and my fellow moderators to the VC for their quick and resoundingly thorough response to my plea for clarification to the Rules regarding Advertising. I have had many moments of internal conflict over the application of this rule, but no more. While still permitting a lot of discretion by the moderators, the revision of the rule now eliminates the air of ambiguity that encompassed the previous version, and, I believe, will permit more freedom to post and less worry on the part of the members about what they are permitted to post.
To the members: Please do not refrain from posting for fear of breaking one of the rules. Moderators are here to facilitate open discussion, not stifle it. It is my belief that the short list of Rules as amended (CLICK HERE to read them) are very understandable and unambiguous. If, however, you want an opinion prior to posting, feel free to contact a moderator for advice. Your moderators for this board are myself, lisagrant87, capestampman, and jansimon.
To one and all, Thanks for your continued participation in the discussion board!
Bobby
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
The revised rules make good sense — congrats to the author(s).
A suggestion: The new rules state, "When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements that answer questions posed." This seems to preclude posts that don't "answer questions posted," which I doubt was the intent. I suggest editing the sentence so that it reads, "When posting, please restrict yourself to factual statements."
Bob
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
From a general lurker and only occasional poster, thanks for the clarifications and kudos to the VC and the moderators.
Roger
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05:53:41am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Regarding the wording of the rules, I would only suggest changing the spelling of "discretely" to "discreetly" and "discrete" to "discreet"....g
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I think Gerald has a good point. Discrete and discreet are different words with different meanings. As far as I am aware we meant to say "careful(ly)" or "prudent(ly)" and not "seperate(ly)", so it should be discreet.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
06 Feb 2014
06:35:05am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I didn't catch that! Thanks, Gerald!
When used in the third sentence, the word "discretely" should only be used if the meaning implied is "separate and apart" from the body of the post; if the meaning implied is "careful and prudent," then "discreetly" should be used. Likewise in the next to last sentence of the first paragraph, if the phrase "Contribute and be discrete..." means contribute but keep any promotion of your business or website separate from your post, then the use of discrete is correct, whereas if the meaning is contribute but be careful and prudent in the promotion of your business or website, then discreet should be used.
Since I do not know the intent of the VC here, I will allow them to address this. Should the spelling be changed or not? This may seem like a minor point, but as Gerald implies, words have power and should be used correctly.
The English teacher bows to the professor! Â Thanks again Gerald.
Bobby
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
06 Feb 2014
06:37:06am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I was typing my post when Jansimon was posting his! We have our answer.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Feb 2014
07:28:29am
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I am quite sure that:
" .... I think that policies that are open to interpretation will beget myriad interpretations....."
is a quote from an e-mail young Jim Madison sent old Tommy Jefferson about 227 years ago right after he dreamed up how to make a winking smiley face.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
That pretty well clarifies the issue, without leaving any confusion. Excellent job everyone.
Mike
I thought I had read something in one of Nostradamus's quatrains about the "Smiley Face" appearing from the West.....but could be mistaken about that.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I am so glad to read this. This was one thing that was hanging over my head since I moved here. I am not a dealer, seller, agent, etc., but sometimes a link can be very illustrative. I'm glad the rules were updated and, more importantly, that Bobby shows such understanding and compassion as a moderator. We are a fairly lucky bunch, I would say!
Lars
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Lars made an acute observation that I wanted to reinforce. We ARE a "lucky bunch" to have a moderator who
"shows such understanding and compassion "
further, we're blessed with a membership that can appreciate that.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I don't know if this is the right forum to bring this up ,but for some reason every time I come on to stamporama several individual words are appearing in green and are double underlined if you put your mouse pointer on them you get a popup add.
I am running Spyware blaster Malwarebytes and spybot .
Does any have an idea how to stop them? Please I am assuming they are nothing to do with the board.
Brian
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
24 Feb 2014
06:39:29pm
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Brian
Next time you see one, message me with particulars and I will check it out. It certainly should not be happening. It does sound like some kind of malware or adware, and if it is, I'm sure Tim can handle it.
Bobby
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
It's adware.
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Bobby, people like you make me glad to be a member here. Thanks!
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
snowy 12,
I had that before. It was malware. I had to take it to a guy and he had to remove 47 files/programs that it had infiltrated. It will get worse in time and for me it prevented uploading pictures for my auctions. After you get it fixed make sure your protection package blocks malware. I had the guy load Casperson (SP?)and I have not had any problems since.
Pat
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
12 Mar 2014
09:09:15pm
re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Brian
I doubt the bug came from SOR. It probably piggy-backed onto an email you received from another member or was somehow already lurking in your system until something (I know not what) activated it. From postmarks remarks, it does not appear it will go away on its own.
You need to install a program to identify and remove it. Do a Google search using the phrase "malware removal" and you will find many self-help suggestions, both free and commercial products.
Bobby
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Hi Brian,
Clear the cache, history and cookies in your browser. Getting rid of all that background stuff may get rid of it for you.
Regards ... Tim
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
I have a small program, Advanced System Care that removes/stops most malware. There is a free version that is good, but the Pro version (upgrade cost me all of $23.95) is better and works faster. For really stubborn malware, try Malwarebytes, another freebie. It is thorough, but takes a long time to run, so I generally run it overnight. I had thought I was malware free, but the computer began to run very slow, so an ASC scan found and removed 1--now it's running fast again. A quick Google search will get links for both. Or try Downloads.com.
Roger
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re: Advertising and self promotion on the discussion board
Chances are its adware. I had this before and removed it quite easily, without resorting to checking for boot sector problems or Trojans etc.
If you have more than one browser installed, say IE, Chrome and/or Firefox, see if the ads appear in one browser.
Typically these ads are caused by an Add-On to your browser, often a Coupon add-on. Might be called "coupon saver, "getsavin", "SweetPacks", "solid savings" or any other such nonsense. Check your browser add-ons and disable any you don't want.
Often you can unsubscribe to ads. You could click on one, right click the ad and unsubscribe if you can or maybe even disable the addon. Not sure this entirely works for this problem but I thought that was one avenue I tried when I had this problem.
If you are using Internet Explorer you could run it in the no Add-On mode to check. See this link for info: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/tips/manage-add-ons.
Other browsers should have similar features.
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