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United States/Stamps : Info on US Coils

 

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

27 Jan 2014
10:22:49pm
Hi Everyone,
I'm not really a US collector, but have been starting a nice little collection of US Coils. I don't know anything about them really. Where is a good place for me to start gathering information?

Regards ... Tim.
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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

27 Jan 2014
10:50:58pm
re: Info on US Coils

Tim,

It really depends on the time-frame. If you are talking about modern coils, like the Transportation Series, then the next question is mint or used? Mint coil collectors often collect PNC (plate number coil) strips. Collectors of used coils are often looking for PNC singles or interesting on-cover usages.

Let me give you an example from the Transportation Series:

Image Not Found

I collect press varieties, but not tagging or gum varieties. I often use plate numbers to narrow down the identification of the stamp.

============================= HOWEVER ======================================

If you are talking about early coils, especially 3rd Bureau (Washington-Franklin Series), it's a whole different ball game with LOTS of fakes in the marketplace.

Lars

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dani20
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27 Jan 2014
10:55:06pm
re: Info on US Coils

Daveodd has been putting a bunch of them into the auction-jump on them. Use your Scott's Specialized catalog and track each of the issues that have coils. Many do, many do not. Some are insanely expensive, most not so. If you think I could be of any help, don't hesitate to ask me.
Best,
Dan C.

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

27 Jan 2014
10:56:38pm
re: Info on US Coils

Hi Lars,
Any suggestions on good places for me to start reading?

Regards ... Tim.

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

27 Jan 2014
10:57:56pm
re: Info on US Coils

Thanks Dan. You posted just as I was responding to Lars. Happy

Tim.

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dani20
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27 Jan 2014
11:07:38pm
re: Info on US Coils

Lars approaches the field like a General aligning troops-very complete, orderly and scholarly. The plate and press identifications never really captured me, but clearly it is a most worthwhile approach. My approach is more serendipitous, sort of early Salvation Army accumulations. Sometime when I grow up I'll try to sort like Lars does, but for now I'm into the joy of the hunt and the securing of the trophy.

Dan C.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

27 Jan 2014
11:37:51pm
re: Info on US Coils

"Hi Lars,
Any suggestions on good places for me to start reading?

Regards ... Tim."



Tim,

Once again, it depends on moderns versus early 20th Century. For early coils (2nd and 3rd Bureau), I like Martin Armstrong's "United States Coil Issues 1906-38." I recently bought, and actually just received today, a book suggested here titled "How to Detect Damaged, Altered, and Repaired Stamps" by Paul Schmid. Obviously, I have not had a chance to read it yet, but I'm lead to believe it could be useful in detecting 3rd Bureau coil fakes.

If you want the minimal amount of info necessary for moderns, you will need a Scott Specialized US Catalog AND a Durland Standard Plate Number Catalog. It seems that each of them tells half of the story when it comes to modern coils. You will also need the proper UV lamp. Michael numbers, who posts here frequently, set me up with my UV lamp. He can explain things better than I can, but it seems that US uses a shorter wavelength than some other places so you need to be sure and get the correct lamp.

Happy hunting!

Lars

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

27 Jan 2014
11:40:53pm
re: Info on US Coils

"My approach is more serendipitous"



...and that's what I enjoy most about you, Dan! You are a breath of fresh air that is ALWAYS welcome around here!

Cheers!

Lars
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bulldog
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28 Jan 2014
07:14:35am
re: Info on US Coils

Tim,
The Plate Number Coil Collectors Club has a wealth of information on coils. You can access on internet.

http://pnc3.org/

bulldog


(Modified by Moderator on 2014-01-28 07:38:07)

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

28 Jan 2014
08:03:53am
re: Info on US Coils

Lars and Bulldog, thanks very much for the help.

Regards ... Tim

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

28 Jan 2014
12:45:31pm
re: Info on US Coils

Tim,

for modern coils, for which I use the Americana series because it is the first to use PNCs on the stamps, you could look to our own Saleem, who maintains a database describing each possible PNC combo, with tagging, paper, die cut, and P/V teeth varieties. When I collected PNCs, I found it an invaluable resource and depressing reminder of how little I know and how much more is out there.

David

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khj
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28 Jan 2014
02:47:55pm
re: Info on US Coils

Very nice Transportation Coil page, Lars! Nice in appearance/arrangement and well-annotated.

"but it seems that US uses a shorter wavelength than some other places so you need to be sure and get the correct lamp"


Good point. To detect tagging on almost all US stamps, you need to use a short-wavelength UV lamp (254nm range) and NOT a long-wavelength UV lamp (365nm range). If you use a broad spectrum UV lamp (typical of most consumer lamps), you will need make sure it has a cut-off filter to remove the long-wavelength UV. Otherwise, in some cases the paper glow from the long-wavelength photoluminescence will mask the tagging photoluminescence. Buying a separate filter is usually not cost-effective nor practical. This is why you should buy UV lamp units designed for collectors or research grade lamps, even though they are more expensive.

"...I use the Americana series because it is the first to use PNCs on the stamps,"


I thought the first plate number coil was from the Flag & Anthem issue of 24Apr1981 (US #1891 in the Scott catalog)?

k


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khj
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28 Jan 2014
02:49:26pm
re: Info on US Coils

"...you could look to our own Saleem, who maintains a database describing each possible PNC combo, with tagging, paper, die cut, and P/V teeth varieties."



This sounds extremely useful. Is this available online and do you have the link?

k
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

28 Jan 2014
09:29:35pm
re: Info on US Coils

Kim, i might have a copy, but, if so, it will be out of date. i'll look. Saleem is more likely to have amended it, and have a more useful copy, but he's often away.

you might be right about the flag stamp; it's the right period, 1981, about the time the Americana series was introduced.

David

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

29 Jan 2014
07:36:04am
re: Info on US Coils

Tim,
For early U.S. Coils stay away from ebay. As usual it is loaded with fakes from the mid-values on up. I would not buy any Washington -Franklin coil with a price of $20.00 and up without certification or direct knowledge of the item or seller.
Ross

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petert4522

22 Jul 2014
04:01:56pm
re: Info on US Coils

AMSD, You talk about the Americana series and state it was issued in the 1980's. The series that was the first to use PNC's was the Transportation Series in 1981 with the 18 cent Surrey. The first PNC (plate number coil) was the 1981 Flag and Anthem issue, Scott # 1891. There was a Great Americans series that began at about the same time but they were regular stamps as opposed to coils.

Peter

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

23 Jul 2014
08:09:44am
re: Info on US Coils

yikes, Peter, I stand humbly corrected

I should keep to covers where, while I don't know any more, there are so many fewer people to correct me.

David

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

23 Jul 2014
09:14:27am
re: Info on US Coils

"I should keep to covers where, while I don't know any more, there are so many fewer people to correct me."

On the rare occasion I attend a social function where I am forced to be SOCIAL (i.e., have to communicate with PEOPLE face to face), I can (almost) always find a topic of discussion so obscure that my scant knowledge is superior to that of the other folk, and no one can tell when my knowledge expires and I start making stuff up! This always worked well until the advent of the smart phone and instant access to google and Wiki. Now there is always some smarta** in the crowd who is tekkie enough to call me on my fictional discourse. Ahh, well - good thing being anti-social is now in!

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

23 Jul 2014
11:39:03am
re: Info on US Coils

that has been my approach to life, too, Bobby. But here is one of the few places where I know something and the people are those to whom I generally would like to converse. I could always just go into "listening" mode. I know my daughter would be mightily glad for it.

you know, I always thought I got a good grade in socializing, because it read: "asocial" but i could never understand why.


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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

24 Jul 2014
08:16:57pm
re: Info on US Coils

"I always thought I got a good grade in socializing, because it read: "asocial" but i could never understand why."



David,

I received a better grade than you did. I received an A+, but the teacher goofed and used "An" instead of "A". The actual grade was An+:social. At least that's what it looks like to me. Winking

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

25 Jul 2014
09:25:14am
re: Info on US Coils

at least we're not running along the scythe o path, Lars

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Author/Postings
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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
27 Jan 2014
10:22:49pm

Hi Everyone,
I'm not really a US collector, but have been starting a nice little collection of US Coils. I don't know anything about them really. Where is a good place for me to start gathering information?

Regards ... Tim.

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https://mncancels.or ...
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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
27 Jan 2014
10:50:58pm

re: Info on US Coils

Tim,

It really depends on the time-frame. If you are talking about modern coils, like the Transportation Series, then the next question is mint or used? Mint coil collectors often collect PNC (plate number coil) strips. Collectors of used coils are often looking for PNC singles or interesting on-cover usages.

Let me give you an example from the Transportation Series:

Image Not Found

I collect press varieties, but not tagging or gum varieties. I often use plate numbers to narrow down the identification of the stamp.

============================= HOWEVER ======================================

If you are talking about early coils, especially 3rd Bureau (Washington-Franklin Series), it's a whole different ball game with LOTS of fakes in the marketplace.

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stam ...
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dani20

27 Jan 2014
10:55:06pm

re: Info on US Coils

Daveodd has been putting a bunch of them into the auction-jump on them. Use your Scott's Specialized catalog and track each of the issues that have coils. Many do, many do not. Some are insanely expensive, most not so. If you think I could be of any help, don't hesitate to ask me.
Best,
Dan C.

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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
27 Jan 2014
10:56:38pm

re: Info on US Coils

Hi Lars,
Any suggestions on good places for me to start reading?

Regards ... Tim.

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https://mncancels.or ...
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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
27 Jan 2014
10:57:56pm

re: Info on US Coils

Thanks Dan. You posted just as I was responding to Lars. Happy

Tim.

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dani20

27 Jan 2014
11:07:38pm

re: Info on US Coils

Lars approaches the field like a General aligning troops-very complete, orderly and scholarly. The plate and press identifications never really captured me, but clearly it is a most worthwhile approach. My approach is more serendipitous, sort of early Salvation Army accumulations. Sometime when I grow up I'll try to sort like Lars does, but for now I'm into the joy of the hunt and the securing of the trophy.

Dan C.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
27 Jan 2014
11:37:51pm

re: Info on US Coils

"Hi Lars,
Any suggestions on good places for me to start reading?

Regards ... Tim."



Tim,

Once again, it depends on moderns versus early 20th Century. For early coils (2nd and 3rd Bureau), I like Martin Armstrong's "United States Coil Issues 1906-38." I recently bought, and actually just received today, a book suggested here titled "How to Detect Damaged, Altered, and Repaired Stamps" by Paul Schmid. Obviously, I have not had a chance to read it yet, but I'm lead to believe it could be useful in detecting 3rd Bureau coil fakes.

If you want the minimal amount of info necessary for moderns, you will need a Scott Specialized US Catalog AND a Durland Standard Plate Number Catalog. It seems that each of them tells half of the story when it comes to modern coils. You will also need the proper UV lamp. Michael numbers, who posts here frequently, set me up with my UV lamp. He can explain things better than I can, but it seems that US uses a shorter wavelength than some other places so you need to be sure and get the correct lamp.

Happy hunting!

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stam ...
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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
27 Jan 2014
11:40:53pm

re: Info on US Coils

"My approach is more serendipitous"



...and that's what I enjoy most about you, Dan! You are a breath of fresh air that is ALWAYS welcome around here!

Cheers!

Lars
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bulldog

28 Jan 2014
07:14:35am

re: Info on US Coils

Tim,
The Plate Number Coil Collectors Club has a wealth of information on coils. You can access on internet.

http://pnc3.org/

bulldog


(Modified by Moderator on 2014-01-28 07:38:07)

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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
28 Jan 2014
08:03:53am

re: Info on US Coils

Lars and Bulldog, thanks very much for the help.

Regards ... Tim

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
28 Jan 2014
12:45:31pm

re: Info on US Coils

Tim,

for modern coils, for which I use the Americana series because it is the first to use PNCs on the stamps, you could look to our own Saleem, who maintains a database describing each possible PNC combo, with tagging, paper, die cut, and P/V teeth varieties. When I collected PNCs, I found it an invaluable resource and depressing reminder of how little I know and how much more is out there.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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khj

28 Jan 2014
02:47:55pm

re: Info on US Coils

Very nice Transportation Coil page, Lars! Nice in appearance/arrangement and well-annotated.

"but it seems that US uses a shorter wavelength than some other places so you need to be sure and get the correct lamp"


Good point. To detect tagging on almost all US stamps, you need to use a short-wavelength UV lamp (254nm range) and NOT a long-wavelength UV lamp (365nm range). If you use a broad spectrum UV lamp (typical of most consumer lamps), you will need make sure it has a cut-off filter to remove the long-wavelength UV. Otherwise, in some cases the paper glow from the long-wavelength photoluminescence will mask the tagging photoluminescence. Buying a separate filter is usually not cost-effective nor practical. This is why you should buy UV lamp units designed for collectors or research grade lamps, even though they are more expensive.

"...I use the Americana series because it is the first to use PNCs on the stamps,"


I thought the first plate number coil was from the Flag & Anthem issue of 24Apr1981 (US #1891 in the Scott catalog)?

k


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khj

28 Jan 2014
02:49:26pm

re: Info on US Coils

"...you could look to our own Saleem, who maintains a database describing each possible PNC combo, with tagging, paper, die cut, and P/V teeth varieties."



This sounds extremely useful. Is this available online and do you have the link?

k
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
28 Jan 2014
09:29:35pm

re: Info on US Coils

Kim, i might have a copy, but, if so, it will be out of date. i'll look. Saleem is more likely to have amended it, and have a more useful copy, but he's often away.

you might be right about the flag stamp; it's the right period, 1981, about the time the Americana series was introduced.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
29 Jan 2014
07:36:04am

re: Info on US Coils

Tim,
For early U.S. Coils stay away from ebay. As usual it is loaded with fakes from the mid-values on up. I would not buy any Washington -Franklin coil with a price of $20.00 and up without certification or direct knowledge of the item or seller.
Ross

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petert4522

22 Jul 2014
04:01:56pm

re: Info on US Coils

AMSD, You talk about the Americana series and state it was issued in the 1980's. The series that was the first to use PNC's was the Transportation Series in 1981 with the 18 cent Surrey. The first PNC (plate number coil) was the 1981 Flag and Anthem issue, Scott # 1891. There was a Great Americans series that began at about the same time but they were regular stamps as opposed to coils.

Peter

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
23 Jul 2014
08:09:44am

re: Info on US Coils

yikes, Peter, I stand humbly corrected

I should keep to covers where, while I don't know any more, there are so many fewer people to correct me.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
23 Jul 2014
09:14:27am

re: Info on US Coils

"I should keep to covers where, while I don't know any more, there are so many fewer people to correct me."

On the rare occasion I attend a social function where I am forced to be SOCIAL (i.e., have to communicate with PEOPLE face to face), I can (almost) always find a topic of discussion so obscure that my scant knowledge is superior to that of the other folk, and no one can tell when my knowledge expires and I start making stuff up! This always worked well until the advent of the smart phone and instant access to google and Wiki. Now there is always some smarta** in the crowd who is tekkie enough to call me on my fictional discourse. Ahh, well - good thing being anti-social is now in!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
23 Jul 2014
11:39:03am

re: Info on US Coils

that has been my approach to life, too, Bobby. But here is one of the few places where I know something and the people are those to whom I generally would like to converse. I could always just go into "listening" mode. I know my daughter would be mightily glad for it.

you know, I always thought I got a good grade in socializing, because it read: "asocial" but i could never understand why.


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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
24 Jul 2014
08:16:57pm

re: Info on US Coils

"I always thought I got a good grade in socializing, because it read: "asocial" but i could never understand why."



David,

I received a better grade than you did. I received an A+, but the teacher goofed and used "An" instead of "A". The actual grade was An+:social. At least that's what it looks like to me. Winking

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
25 Jul 2014
09:25:14am

re: Info on US Coils

at least we're not running along the scythe o path, Lars

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