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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

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philb
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20 Jan 2014
04:27:52pm

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I pulled this out of a dealers bargain box yesterday...could it be a cork cancel of a bird ?Image Not Found

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dani20
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20 Jan 2014
05:43:13pm
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

I don't recognize it as a bird-but it does have an animal shape-dog/bull?
Dan C.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Jan 2014
05:47:17pm
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Actually, if this were one of those ink blot tests, I would say it is a bull sitting on a rather puzzled dog. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

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philb
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20 Jan 2014
10:32:05pm

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Hmmm if i put both your answers together, i can discard them !Surprise

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
21 Jan 2014
12:37:51am
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

First off: I don't think it is a bird or any fancy cancel.

My first question is if the envelope can be dated from a enclosure or by some other evidence.

Secondly, I am not seeing evidence that the stamp was used on cover. Are you sure the cancellation extends onto the envelope?

It is a third class rate cover and to me it looks like an early precancel usage. Tom Clark's "A Catalog of Philadelphia Postmarks 18th Century to the Present" may provide the answer if it is a recognized cancellation or just an ink blot.

Generally on the topic of US Fancy Cancels an article by our member Bruce Dangremond.

Arno


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
21 Jan 2014
08:09:18am

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

interesting observation, Arno. Hadn't noticed that initially, but yes, for as large a smudge as it is, not to extend into the envelope is odd.

I might postulate a stamp being added post delivery rather than precancel, as the third class didn't require anything but a muted killer.

i like how you've added a completely new wrinkle to this

David

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Rhinelander
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21 Jan 2014
08:59:27am
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

We have a couple of members collecting precancels, so they may weigh in on that possibility. I spend a little while googling right now but could not come up with a definitive answer, other that that there apparently was no uniformity in how stamps were cancelled before being affixed to envelopes in the 1880s. I found a pretty interesting account of a bulk mailing operation in 1893. It appears about half way through the web page.

I am about "sure" I have seen dozens of precanceled bulk mailings with that exact Franklin stamp, but I give it to David that it is not possible to distinguish a stamp pasted onto the envelope as a substitute for stamp that fell off the envelope from a precanceled stamp. Neither cancel will extend onto the envelope. The fact that third-class mail did not have to be date stamped was the exact reason why precancels could be used. But this could confuse cause and effect. Perhaps it was the other way around and the rule that the mail had to be date stamped was dropped for third-class mail to accommodate the usage of precanceled stamps.

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philb
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21 Jan 2014
09:17:35am

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Its possible it was altered,probably too good to be true !!!

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
21 Jan 2014
12:41:30pm

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Arno got me thinking, as he often does, and I found another source, albeit brief, on early precancels, http://www.precanceledstamps.com/getting-started/. There is NOTHING definitive here, but we find that precancels are first officially sanctioned in 1887, although unofficially used somewhat earlier. Your stamp is from an 1870 series, but some of these run until late 1880s, so all remains possible.

given that some have speculated that we have an altered cover, a precancel, or just a blob, all things are possible, but a great door has been opened into both precancels and third class mail. That door leads to an entire universe. I think this cover belongs to the latter, but not the former, and still see little evidence of a bird, unless we're talking road kill, then, yes, I see the resemblance.

David

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philb
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21 Jan 2014
02:45:39pm

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

i must have been gobbling the oxy..i should stay away from areas i know little about..like U.S. covers..it looked attractive !

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michael78651
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21 Jan 2014
02:58:09pm
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

If it looked attractive to you, and you wanted to add it to your collection...nothing wrong with that. I have a worldwide collection as my main interest. However, I don't let that stop me from picking up an item here and there that interests me, but doesn't fit in my main collecting area. I have a few stock books of a secondary collection just for things that interest me.

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philb
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21 Jan 2014
03:51:08pm

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re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Michael, its good to have varied interests...i went to the stamp show to meet a friend and look at a cover dealers goods..little did i suspect my wife would find some seldom seen Guatemala covers for me in the dollar tubs..you NEVER know whats going to show up !

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
21 Jan 2014
11:58:31pm
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Here is one cover I found in my stuff that I am pretty certain is a precancel, rather than a replaced stamp:

Image Not Found

Here is the back:

Image Not Found

It reads "Received March 22, 1878 from N. N. Summerbell"

It is a little hard to read, but I believe it is authentic. N. Summmerbell is named as the sender in the advertizing text on the front of the cover. So here we presumably have an 1878 Dayton, Ohio postmaster precancel.

Arno



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Stampme
22 Jan 2014
05:17:12pm
re: Could this be a cork cancel of a bird ?

Hi Arno,
I think your cover looks like a precancel pen marking, too.
Generally, when older items like the cover that began the thread were precancelled, one sees the application of ink go all the way across the stamp from one perf to the next across the sheet.

The first one that began this thread, to my eye is likely not a precancel as the cancellation, for lack of a better word, blob does not do that.

I can see the bird in image in the first cover but am not certain that it is anything more than just a smudge.
Bruce

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