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United States/Stamps : Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

 

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

19 Jan 2014
02:51:40pm
I have always been curious as to why there seems to be a difference in valuation between stamps used in the normal postal stream and pre cancelled stamps. I am speaking more to the 1902 definitives and the Washington-Franklins than anything else. For example, I recently picked up a 50¢ stamp from the 1902 series for next to nothing because it was pre cancelled. I would think that this stamp would have the same Scott valuation as a normal used stamp, but apparently not (even though Scott makes no distinction for valuation purposes). I have noticed other pre cancelled stamps shunned in favor of regularly cancelled stamps, and wonder if this is just personal taste of the collector, or if there is another reason (scarcity, etc.)?

Bobby
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michael78651

19 Jan 2014
03:15:48pm
re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Bobby, I believe it has to do with esthetics and appearance, sort of like straight edged stamps. However, collecting pre-cancels is a challenging endeavor for those who want to go on that hunt.

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

19 Jan 2014
08:04:56pm
re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Aesthetics may play into it, but I believe the main reason is definitional. Used values given in the catalog are for contemporaneous postal cancellations. The whole point of a precancelled stamp is that it will not have to be cancelled, but is marked so that it is 'consumed' by its usage by a bulk mailer. In this respect, they strike me as being more similar to postage meters than to postage stamps in the way they are used. Therefore, just because of the definition of what the right column in the Scott catalog means, it does not apply to precancels. As for catalog values, because actual usage cannot be determined, I suggest that if one believes Scott values apply -- which I don't think they do -- then the proper valuation would be MNG or used, whichever is lower.

Precancels can be much more common than postally used, if a particular variety/rate was almost exclusively used for bulk mailings, or much less common in the opposite case. In any event,they are much more appropriately priced based on the voluminous specialized literature on these stamps rather than on some extrapolation from Scott values, which do not apply to precancels if I am reading the foreword correctly. This, BTW, applies even more to perfins, which if priced according to Scott standards, would demand a discount for damaged, but should be priced correctly according to the desirability of the perforated initials in the specialized literature.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

19 Jan 2014
11:44:57pm
re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

You have a 5oc stamp from the 1902 series (2nd Bureau) precanceled?!? I have a 2005 edition of the Precancel Stamp Society of United States Bureau Precancels that doesn't go back that far. It would be interesting to know if local precancels went back that far, but why would they precancel a 50c stamp? It doesn't make any sense. It looks like the Bureau started precanceling larger denominations with the Liberty Series, so it was done, but something doesn't smell right.

Lars

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

20 Jan 2014
12:07:12am
re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

I'll see if I can find it and scan it. I do not collect precancels as such, and I am not sure where it is. I never said it was a bureau precancel, it is most likely a local. I have run across several stamps from that series with precancels. I do not think I gave them all away, so I will scan them also.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

20 Jan 2014
12:19:31am
re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Here are some locals I found on the web from that series:

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.net
        

 

Author/Postings

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
19 Jan 2014
02:51:40pm

I have always been curious as to why there seems to be a difference in valuation between stamps used in the normal postal stream and pre cancelled stamps. I am speaking more to the 1902 definitives and the Washington-Franklins than anything else. For example, I recently picked up a 50¢ stamp from the 1902 series for next to nothing because it was pre cancelled. I would think that this stamp would have the same Scott valuation as a normal used stamp, but apparently not (even though Scott makes no distinction for valuation purposes). I have noticed other pre cancelled stamps shunned in favor of regularly cancelled stamps, and wonder if this is just personal taste of the collector, or if there is another reason (scarcity, etc.)?

Bobby

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this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
michael78651

19 Jan 2014
03:15:48pm

re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Bobby, I believe it has to do with esthetics and appearance, sort of like straight edged stamps. However, collecting pre-cancels is a challenging endeavor for those who want to go on that hunt.

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
19 Jan 2014
08:04:56pm

re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Aesthetics may play into it, but I believe the main reason is definitional. Used values given in the catalog are for contemporaneous postal cancellations. The whole point of a precancelled stamp is that it will not have to be cancelled, but is marked so that it is 'consumed' by its usage by a bulk mailer. In this respect, they strike me as being more similar to postage meters than to postage stamps in the way they are used. Therefore, just because of the definition of what the right column in the Scott catalog means, it does not apply to precancels. As for catalog values, because actual usage cannot be determined, I suggest that if one believes Scott values apply -- which I don't think they do -- then the proper valuation would be MNG or used, whichever is lower.

Precancels can be much more common than postally used, if a particular variety/rate was almost exclusively used for bulk mailings, or much less common in the opposite case. In any event,they are much more appropriately priced based on the voluminous specialized literature on these stamps rather than on some extrapolation from Scott values, which do not apply to precancels if I am reading the foreword correctly. This, BTW, applies even more to perfins, which if priced according to Scott standards, would demand a discount for damaged, but should be priced correctly according to the desirability of the perforated initials in the specialized literature.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
19 Jan 2014
11:44:57pm

re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

You have a 5oc stamp from the 1902 series (2nd Bureau) precanceled?!? I have a 2005 edition of the Precancel Stamp Society of United States Bureau Precancels that doesn't go back that far. It would be interesting to know if local precancels went back that far, but why would they precancel a 50c stamp? It doesn't make any sense. It looks like the Bureau started precanceling larger denominations with the Liberty Series, so it was done, but something doesn't smell right.

Lars

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this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Jan 2014
12:07:12am

re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

I'll see if I can find it and scan it. I do not collect precancels as such, and I am not sure where it is. I never said it was a bureau precancel, it is most likely a local. I have run across several stamps from that series with precancels. I do not think I gave them all away, so I will scan them also.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Jan 2014
12:19:31am

re: Valuation of "used" via cds or similar device versus pre cancelled

Here are some locals I found on the web from that series:

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
        

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