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Asia/Other : New Acquisition - Bhutan

 

Author
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michael78651

19 Nov 2013
08:49:32pm
This is a pilfered photo of a set from Bhutan that I finally could not resist getting:

Image Not Found

I have wanted this set for a long time.
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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

20 Nov 2013
03:45:11am

Auctions - Approvals
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How are the songs?

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cocollectibles

20 Nov 2013
06:44:31am
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How would you play these?

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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
michael78651

20 Nov 2013
08:24:08pm
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

First, I wouldn't play them. They wouldn't be "mint" anymore.

They do play at 33 1/3 RPM on any record player. If you remember the stamp collecting video done by Gary Burghoff many years ago, he played one of them on a record player in the video.

They are not just songs. They also include narration about Bhutan and its people.

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Jeredutt3

21 Nov 2013
07:25:20am
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How fantastic.. That is a new one on me. Never heard of those before. We're they ever used as actual affixed postage? I assume to make them a postage stamp there was some kind of gum on one side ? I thought my volcanic ash stamps were odd and cool... Might have to track these down.


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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

21 Nov 2013
07:39:13am

Auctions - Approvals
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I just read that many / most turntables are not able to play these because the swing of the tone arm is not long enough to complete the record.
I found a few samples of what is on these record stamps as well.
This one is a rather boring narration about Bhutan: http://mp3archives.wfmu.org/archive/FL/bhut1.mp3
And this is a little song: http://mp3archives.wfmu.org/archive/FL/bhut2.mp3

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www.etsy.com/nl/shop/itsallmadeofpaper/
michael78651

21 Nov 2013
07:29:50pm
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Jere - Bhutan has been a leader in "different" style stamps. However, the record stamps are quite popular and cat at $400. However, you should be able to find them in the $100 to $200 range. They aren't cheap. They also have issued several CD Rom stamps. Those play on computer CD drives.

I used to have a link to the official Bhutan site where you could watch the videos from the Bhutan CD Rom stamps. They were very well done, but I have lost the link. I tried finding the links to the CD Rom and the records. Thanks, Jan for finding the record links.

It is true that the records are on the small size, and players with the auto-reject will not play them correctly. You would have to find a manual turntable to try to play them. If you do, the central hole of the records may be affected by the spindle (remove the spindle if you can before playing) and/or you could scratch the record with the needle. Either way the stamps may not be considered MNH any more if that happens.


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Rhinelander
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21 Nov 2013
07:47:29pm
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Perhaps splitting hair, but does the distinction of mint vs. used not relate to the use of a stamp for postage? "Playing" the stamp on a record player, therefore, does not constitute using it (philatelically speaking that is)? So, even if played, it is still mint, albeit if playing damages the back -- which we don't know if that would happen -- , the stamp may then be considered mint disturbed gum. MNH does not mean "untouched by human hands." It just means anything touching the back did not leave any visible marks. So, as long as playing leaves no trace, I would still consider the stamps 'MNH.'

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michael78651

21 Nov 2013
08:40:38pm
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I disagree with your definition.

To me:

Mint = in the condition as if the stamp just left the post office (post office fresh with no damage; never hinged is presumed).

Unused = not used, original gum but no longer "post office fresh" (may include damage in the unused state and can be NH, but it is no longer mint)

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alyn
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webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org.

22 Nov 2013
08:04:22am
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I am with Arno on this one I think philatelically, playing one of these on a record player, cd player or on your computer wouldn't move it into unused.

Alyn

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

22 Nov 2013
09:41:07am
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Hi Michael,

I see where you are coming from. These stamps are so unusual that they push the limits on traditional philatelic terminology.

Generally speaking, accepting what a fake, counterfeit, or cinderella etc. have been defined to be in the foreword of the catalog, perhaps serves everybody best in the vast majority of instances. Similarly, I don't think redefining the traditional dichotomy of used (postally used, right column) vs. unused (not, left column) in the Scott catalog just because of the existence of one stamp-record set from Bhutan is necessary. Scott does an excellent job charting the different subcategories of unused, ranging from MNH to no gum. Based on these categories, "played on a record player" will only move the needle on the unused categorization if it disturbs the gum.

Having said that, there are philatelic items that have their own categorizations. I think this is your point. For instance, booklets are often valued in MNH "unexploded" condition, and so noted in the catalog. So, perhaps there is a premium for this set for MNH "unplayed" condition. This, of course assumes that playing would even leave a trace.

In any event, this is a great acquisition. Very cool. Obviously, entirely philatelic, but a great set. Congratulations.

Arno


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michael78651

22 Nov 2013
09:51:09am
re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Thanks, Arno.

I see I didn't answer a question about the gum. On the back of each record stamp, there is a gummed paper backing. The paper backing is also a little thicker than normal to act as a stiffener for the records. You wouldn't be able to put a stylus on the record and play it if the records were flimsy.

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Author/Postings
michael78651

19 Nov 2013
08:49:32pm

This is a pilfered photo of a set from Bhutan that I finally could not resist getting:

Image Not Found

I have wanted this set for a long time.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
20 Nov 2013
03:45:11am

Auctions - Approvals

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How are the songs?

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
cocollectibles

20 Nov 2013
06:44:31am

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How would you play these?

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
michael78651

20 Nov 2013
08:24:08pm

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

First, I wouldn't play them. They wouldn't be "mint" anymore.

They do play at 33 1/3 RPM on any record player. If you remember the stamp collecting video done by Gary Burghoff many years ago, he played one of them on a record player in the video.

They are not just songs. They also include narration about Bhutan and its people.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Jeredutt3

21 Nov 2013
07:25:20am

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

How fantastic.. That is a new one on me. Never heard of those before. We're they ever used as actual affixed postage? I assume to make them a postage stamp there was some kind of gum on one side ? I thought my volcanic ash stamps were odd and cool... Might have to track these down.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
21 Nov 2013
07:39:13am

Auctions - Approvals

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I just read that many / most turntables are not able to play these because the swing of the tone arm is not long enough to complete the record.
I found a few samples of what is on these record stamps as well.
This one is a rather boring narration about Bhutan: http://mp3archives.wfmu.org/archive/FL/bhut1.mp3
And this is a little song: http://mp3archives.wfmu.org/archive/FL/bhut2.mp3

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
michael78651

21 Nov 2013
07:29:50pm

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Jere - Bhutan has been a leader in "different" style stamps. However, the record stamps are quite popular and cat at $400. However, you should be able to find them in the $100 to $200 range. They aren't cheap. They also have issued several CD Rom stamps. Those play on computer CD drives.

I used to have a link to the official Bhutan site where you could watch the videos from the Bhutan CD Rom stamps. They were very well done, but I have lost the link. I tried finding the links to the CD Rom and the records. Thanks, Jan for finding the record links.

It is true that the records are on the small size, and players with the auto-reject will not play them correctly. You would have to find a manual turntable to try to play them. If you do, the central hole of the records may be affected by the spindle (remove the spindle if you can before playing) and/or you could scratch the record with the needle. Either way the stamps may not be considered MNH any more if that happens.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
21 Nov 2013
07:47:29pm

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Perhaps splitting hair, but does the distinction of mint vs. used not relate to the use of a stamp for postage? "Playing" the stamp on a record player, therefore, does not constitute using it (philatelically speaking that is)? So, even if played, it is still mint, albeit if playing damages the back -- which we don't know if that would happen -- , the stamp may then be considered mint disturbed gum. MNH does not mean "untouched by human hands." It just means anything touching the back did not leave any visible marks. So, as long as playing leaves no trace, I would still consider the stamps 'MNH.'

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651

21 Nov 2013
08:40:38pm

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I disagree with your definition.

To me:

Mint = in the condition as if the stamp just left the post office (post office fresh with no damage; never hinged is presumed).

Unused = not used, original gum but no longer "post office fresh" (may include damage in the unused state and can be NH, but it is no longer mint)

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
alyn

webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org.
22 Nov 2013
08:04:22am

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

I am with Arno on this one I think philatelically, playing one of these on a record player, cd player or on your computer wouldn't move it into unused.

Alyn

Like
Login to Like
this post

"https://thebeardedphilatelist.ca - https://alynlunt.com"

alynlunt.com/
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
22 Nov 2013
09:41:07am

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Hi Michael,

I see where you are coming from. These stamps are so unusual that they push the limits on traditional philatelic terminology.

Generally speaking, accepting what a fake, counterfeit, or cinderella etc. have been defined to be in the foreword of the catalog, perhaps serves everybody best in the vast majority of instances. Similarly, I don't think redefining the traditional dichotomy of used (postally used, right column) vs. unused (not, left column) in the Scott catalog just because of the existence of one stamp-record set from Bhutan is necessary. Scott does an excellent job charting the different subcategories of unused, ranging from MNH to no gum. Based on these categories, "played on a record player" will only move the needle on the unused categorization if it disturbs the gum.

Having said that, there are philatelic items that have their own categorizations. I think this is your point. For instance, booklets are often valued in MNH "unexploded" condition, and so noted in the catalog. So, perhaps there is a premium for this set for MNH "unplayed" condition. This, of course assumes that playing would even leave a trace.

In any event, this is a great acquisition. Very cool. Obviously, entirely philatelic, but a great set. Congratulations.

Arno


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this post
michael78651

22 Nov 2013
09:51:09am

re: New Acquisition - Bhutan

Thanks, Arno.

I see I didn't answer a question about the gum. On the back of each record stamp, there is a gummed paper backing. The paper backing is also a little thicker than normal to act as a stiffener for the records. You wouldn't be able to put a stylus on the record and play it if the records were flimsy.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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