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Europe/Other : AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

 

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tuscany4me
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02 Nov 2013
12:26:13pm
Any thoughts on (the first two stamps) the OPs mean?
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Jlav

02 Nov 2013
12:43:42pm
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Hi,

AMG is Allied Military Government, FTT is for Trieste (Fuime Trieste ?). On the Adriatic coast between Italy and Yugoslavia.

AMG VG VG meaning Veneza Giulia northeast Italy Just to the north of Teiste.

The US and UK military government post WWII (to 1954).

Jacques

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bamra1

03 Nov 2013
07:27:41am
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Jacques' explanation of the difference between the two AMGs is basically correct, but the actual situation is much more complex since it requires distinctions of date as well as geography.

Having been on the winning side in WW1 Italy was awarded some territory on the Balkan side of the Adriatic. In WW2 they seized a lot more, giving them possession of the entire coastline as far as Kotor.

After WW2 the Yugoslav Federal Republic claimed both lots of territory (the WW1 and WW2 gains). Italy objected to the loss of Pula and all the disputed territory to the North of it, since many of these places had ethnic Italian populations, in a few cases majorities. The area disputed consisted of all the coloured section on this map – effectively the whole of the Istrian peninsula and an elongated triangle from Trieste to (very very roughly) Senozece and Kanal.

Image Not Found
Whilst the Allied governments were making a decision on this the whole area was declared independent of both Italy and Yugoslavia, and was to be run by the military. Contingents of the US and UK army ran Pula, Trieste and its adjacent coast, and a long strip of the Trieste hinterland (these areas are blue and green on the map). This was the AMG-VG (Allied Military Government in Venezia Giulia) – often referred to as VG Zone A. Meanwhile the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) administered the rest (shades of red on the map) – Zone B.

This went on for two years. In 1947 Yugoslavia was awarded the whole of Zone B except for the north west coast of Istria (purpley-red on map) and Trieste and its nearby coast (green). Italy continued to contest the loss of these until 1954 (well, considerably later than that before they officially ratified it.)

During this period the US/UK army continued to administer what remained of Zone A under the name of AMG-FTT (Allied Military Government of the Free Territory of Trieste - NOT 'Fiume & Trieste': Fiume/Rijeka had already returned to Yugoslavia) whilst the JNA continued to administer the remains of Zone B – this tends to be described in catalogues also as Trieste though there was no real connection between the Zone B territory and Trieste itself.

In 1954 the remains of Zone B went to Yugoslavia along with a few villages near Trieste. Trieste itself and the remaining villages went to Italy.

A number of the places which returned to Yugoslavia, but which had substantial Italian populations, were allowed to continue using the Italian name as well as the Croatian one on their postmarks. Those that I have in my postmark collection are Ankaran/Ancarano, Buje/Buie, Cres/Cherso, Dekani/Villa Decani,Galizana/Gallesano, Izola/Isola d'Istria, Koper/Capodistria, Novigrad/Cittanova, Piran/Pirano, Portoroz/Portorose, Pula 1/Pola 1, Rijeka/Fiume, Savudrija/Salvore, Secovlje/Sicciole, Umag/Umago. If anyone knows of others, please let me know; they look like this:

Image Not FoundImage Not Found
Image Not Found

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

03 Nov 2013
12:31:31pm
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

"Jlav" and "bamra 1":

Thank you for your contributions to this request for information.

John Derry

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"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

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tuscany4me
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06 Nov 2013
04:15:35pm
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Thank You for the info.... And thank you Dryer for thanking for the input Happy

Clayton 11/6/13

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tuscany4me
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06 Nov 2013
04:18:11pm
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Also.. On Side bar, sorry for posting this in the wrong place. (Is there a way for a poster to 'move' posted item?

Thanx

Have a Great Evening! Wave

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pigdoc

19 Sep 2018
09:23:07am
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Reviving this ancient posting. I just finished reading Flashpoint Trieste, the First Battle of the Cold War (2017) by Christian Jennings. Excellent, informative book on the period from the capitulation of Italy in 1943 to the final division of Trieste on October 5, 1954, as decreed by the Memorandum of London. The book confirms the contents of bamra1's posting above.

I was motivated to do a little searching on eBay, and found these two covers, both offered by the same seller, which I promptly purchased, for a few dollars each:

Image Not Found

What caught my eye on this one is the return address. San Sabba was a former rice-processing plant in Trieste that was converted into a concentration camp by the SS in 1943 to house Italian (Communist) partisans. Following the war, it became a place to house refugees, which came to Trieste in large numbers, estimated at 30,000-40,000 in the summer of 1945. By 1951, refugees were still pouring into Trieste and being sheltered in the San Sabba camp. Then, I found this cover:

Image Not Found

Same addressee, different sender. "Campo profughi Opicina" translates as Opicina refugee camp.

My presumption is that both of these covers are what I'd call Refugee Mail, sent to the Schaboklickys presumably with some appeal for assistance.

Comments?
-Paul

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Cursus
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31 Oct 2018
02:56:50am
re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Having been on the area just a few weeks ago, I wish to point that the Slavic names of Capo d'Istria (Koper), Isola (Izola) and Pirano (Piran), are not Croatian but Slovenian. That republic has a small (30 km) portion of the Istria península.

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Author/Postings
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tuscany4me

02 Nov 2013
12:26:13pm

Any thoughts on (the first two stamps) the OPs mean?
Image Not Found

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this post
Jlav

02 Nov 2013
12:43:42pm

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Hi,

AMG is Allied Military Government, FTT is for Trieste (Fuime Trieste ?). On the Adriatic coast between Italy and Yugoslavia.

AMG VG VG meaning Veneza Giulia northeast Italy Just to the north of Teiste.

The US and UK military government post WWII (to 1954).

Jacques

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
bamra1

03 Nov 2013
07:27:41am

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Jacques' explanation of the difference between the two AMGs is basically correct, but the actual situation is much more complex since it requires distinctions of date as well as geography.

Having been on the winning side in WW1 Italy was awarded some territory on the Balkan side of the Adriatic. In WW2 they seized a lot more, giving them possession of the entire coastline as far as Kotor.

After WW2 the Yugoslav Federal Republic claimed both lots of territory (the WW1 and WW2 gains). Italy objected to the loss of Pula and all the disputed territory to the North of it, since many of these places had ethnic Italian populations, in a few cases majorities. The area disputed consisted of all the coloured section on this map – effectively the whole of the Istrian peninsula and an elongated triangle from Trieste to (very very roughly) Senozece and Kanal.

Image Not Found
Whilst the Allied governments were making a decision on this the whole area was declared independent of both Italy and Yugoslavia, and was to be run by the military. Contingents of the US and UK army ran Pula, Trieste and its adjacent coast, and a long strip of the Trieste hinterland (these areas are blue and green on the map). This was the AMG-VG (Allied Military Government in Venezia Giulia) – often referred to as VG Zone A. Meanwhile the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) administered the rest (shades of red on the map) – Zone B.

This went on for two years. In 1947 Yugoslavia was awarded the whole of Zone B except for the north west coast of Istria (purpley-red on map) and Trieste and its nearby coast (green). Italy continued to contest the loss of these until 1954 (well, considerably later than that before they officially ratified it.)

During this period the US/UK army continued to administer what remained of Zone A under the name of AMG-FTT (Allied Military Government of the Free Territory of Trieste - NOT 'Fiume & Trieste': Fiume/Rijeka had already returned to Yugoslavia) whilst the JNA continued to administer the remains of Zone B – this tends to be described in catalogues also as Trieste though there was no real connection between the Zone B territory and Trieste itself.

In 1954 the remains of Zone B went to Yugoslavia along with a few villages near Trieste. Trieste itself and the remaining villages went to Italy.

A number of the places which returned to Yugoslavia, but which had substantial Italian populations, were allowed to continue using the Italian name as well as the Croatian one on their postmarks. Those that I have in my postmark collection are Ankaran/Ancarano, Buje/Buie, Cres/Cherso, Dekani/Villa Decani,Galizana/Gallesano, Izola/Isola d'Istria, Koper/Capodistria, Novigrad/Cittanova, Piran/Pirano, Portoroz/Portorose, Pula 1/Pola 1, Rijeka/Fiume, Savudrija/Salvore, Secovlje/Sicciole, Umag/Umago. If anyone knows of others, please let me know; they look like this:

Image Not FoundImage Not Found
Image Not Found

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5 Members
like this post.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
03 Nov 2013
12:31:31pm

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

"Jlav" and "bamra 1":

Thank you for your contributions to this request for information.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
Members Picture
tuscany4me

06 Nov 2013
04:15:35pm

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Thank You for the info.... And thank you Dryer for thanking for the input Happy

Clayton 11/6/13

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this post
Members Picture
tuscany4me

06 Nov 2013
04:18:11pm

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Also.. On Side bar, sorry for posting this in the wrong place. (Is there a way for a poster to 'move' posted item?

Thanx

Have a Great Evening! Wave

Like
Login to Like
this post
pigdoc

19 Sep 2018
09:23:07am

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Reviving this ancient posting. I just finished reading Flashpoint Trieste, the First Battle of the Cold War (2017) by Christian Jennings. Excellent, informative book on the period from the capitulation of Italy in 1943 to the final division of Trieste on October 5, 1954, as decreed by the Memorandum of London. The book confirms the contents of bamra1's posting above.

I was motivated to do a little searching on eBay, and found these two covers, both offered by the same seller, which I promptly purchased, for a few dollars each:

Image Not Found

What caught my eye on this one is the return address. San Sabba was a former rice-processing plant in Trieste that was converted into a concentration camp by the SS in 1943 to house Italian (Communist) partisans. Following the war, it became a place to house refugees, which came to Trieste in large numbers, estimated at 30,000-40,000 in the summer of 1945. By 1951, refugees were still pouring into Trieste and being sheltered in the San Sabba camp. Then, I found this cover:

Image Not Found

Same addressee, different sender. "Campo profughi Opicina" translates as Opicina refugee camp.

My presumption is that both of these covers are what I'd call Refugee Mail, sent to the Schaboklickys presumably with some appeal for assistance.

Comments?
-Paul

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
Cursus

31 Oct 2018
02:56:50am

re: AMG FTT, was Italian Overprint

Having been on the area just a few weeks ago, I wish to point that the Slavic names of Capo d'Istria (Koper), Isola (Izola) and Pirano (Piran), are not Croatian but Slovenian. That republic has a small (30 km) portion of the Istria península.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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