Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I can think of another event that if the USPS were to issue a stamp to honor a living person that would give the entire idea a black eye. That is the Tour de France and Lance Armstrong. Yes, it looked great when he won all those races. So issue a stamp for him. Not even 10 years later...but he would always be honored on a US stamp. Deserving? No.
I vote "NO" for depicting living people on stamps. If what they did in their lifetime was truly important and meaningful, then a stamp could be issued to honor their memory.
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I don't agree, Michael, life is for the living. I was a big fan of Lance Armstrong
before his feet turned to clay. Do you propose a stamp be issued to honour
his infamy once he is dead?
What about that endless parade of living royalty, dictators, despots and other ignobility depicted
on the stamps of many nations? Your value judgements are yours and I respect them,
but don't force them on me or others, please.
The biggest attraction of stamp collecting for me is that the hobby embraces everything
on the planet. I do not want any arbitrary exclusions.
John Derry
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Canada has been depicting living people on stamps for years, including NHL hockey players.
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"Your value judgements are yours and I respect them,
but don't force them on me or others, please."
I'm not forcing any of my values on anyone. I was just starting a discussion on the topic of living people being depicted on stamps, and stating how I felt about it. I also like to eat apples, but I'm not telling you or anyone else to eat them.
Do I have to do around here when I write a post, add a disclaimer that I apologize for forcing myself on anyone, that they are not obligated to do anything that I say, that the opinions and statements made in my posts are not binding nor a reflection on any of the officers and members of SOR and are those solely of the writer? Do you belong to the VSC too?
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-08-12 21:56:33)
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Well, Andy Murray winning Wimbledon was a huge deal for Great Britain and Scotland, and it will likely still be a big deal for them years for now. But, given the track record of all these famous athletes, politicians, etc..., I think the honor of being on a postage stamp should be reserved for someone whose reputation has stood the test of time. Just my opinion......Sally
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Oh, Michael, Michael…my heart lies bleeding…
You know I have only the highest respect for your philatelic knowledge, and for your provocative commentary which always provokes me to respond in kind. I respectfully request you to recalibrate your sensitivity meter to ignore my natterings as I had no intention of offending you or any other member of Stamporama. You, of all Stamporama members, should know that my penchant for candid discussion always trumps my feeble sense of diplomacy - I simply can't help it, it's in my DNA. I am a proponent of free speech for everyone.
Obviously I have offended you and I apologize without reservation. Forgive my transgression and please continue to provoke me as you see fit. I've recalibrated my own sensitivity meter to read your comments with less passion and more understanding.
"God created the world,
But it is the Devil who keeps it going."
(Tristan Bernard)
John Derry
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Mandarins for me thanks
Cheers
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Yes, the etymology of "natter" is British:
"natter [ˈnætə] Chiefly Brit
vb
(intr) to talk idly and at length; chatter or gossip
n
prolonged idle chatter or gossip
[changed from gnatter to grumble, of imitative origin; compare Low German gnatteren]
natterer n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000"
Roger And in case you hadn't guessed already, I am an unapologetic "word nerd"!
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The comptrollers of postal institutions can make an easy financial case for putting living persons on postage stamps because those stamps sell. Nothing else matters in an environment where dragon flies are outliving post offices.
In this age of instantaneous global communication, the smartphone generation is calling the shot.
Fifteen minutes of Wharholian fame and then it's the end of history.
Market the product while it enjoys its brief celebrity life span in the electronic media. Your flavour of the moment is already the victim of supersession.
British Royal Mail's issue of a souvenir stamp sheet to honour their guy who won this year's Wimbledon was a survival ploy and the Brit who won the Tour de France is likely next on deck.
Using "reputation" as a criterion for postage-stamp depiction is invalid. Reputations do not stand the test of time (check out Mother Teresa, Albert Schweitzer, Baden-Powell et al.)
Alive or dead, does it really matter? Canada puts cartoon characters on its postage stamps for
crying out loud.
John Derry
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the only flaw in the ointment, ooops, argument, John is that it's not sales that matter but retention. Only if they retain Dudley DooRight or Jane Fonda, for instance, does Canada Post or USPS actually benefit the bottom line; otherwise, might as well have been one of our flags.
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I have no problem with the topical use of stamps to feature living individuals, not even a problem with honoring anyone's 15 minutes of glory playing tennis or whatever. Hey, maybe it will spurn interest in stamp collecting!
What I would have an issue with is how those living persons get selected. Up for the highest bidder? Those with most influence? Political figures? (right now, I won't buy any of those stamps for sure!) Postmasters? And we also risk getting into the whole political correctness thing; if you feature this person representing this group, you have to feature that person representing that group, etc. Ugh. Enough!
But honoring heroes such as fire fighters, for example, would be fine with me (no, ladies, I'm not talking about a hunky stamp of the month thing here!), or even better, teachers! With actual people, maybe the teacher of the year in some state. Or scientists! (speaking of which, why isn't there a stamp for Carl Sagan? 
)
Anyway, that's my two bits on this.
Peter
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"(speaking of which, why isn't there a stamp for Carl Sagan?"
Because they'd have to print "billions and billions" of stamps!
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I believe that the US has only featured one individual on a Stamp and that was Jefferson Davis ?
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"I believe that the US has only featured one individual on a Stamp and that was Jefferson Davis ?"
That wasn't the US. It was the CSA. They also printed a one cent stamp with John C. Calhoun (VP of CSA) that didn't make it into circulation.
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I don't like living people on stamps, either. It's just a personal thing and I'm not passionate enough about it to defend my position, nor will I complain if Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins are still alive in 2019 and their likenesses is placed with Neil Armstrong's on a 50th Anniversary Moon Landing Stamp.
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"That wasn't the US. It was the CSA. "
Did not know that the CSA was outside of the U.S.
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The count of living people pictured on US stamps is now at 62. None were being commemorated, they just wound up on the stamp from the picture or the image drawn for the stamp from an original source. The latest discovery of a living person on a US stamp is US Scott #3502f. The woman who modeled for the painting is still alive.
If you want a list of the 62 stamps, send a business-sized self-addressed stamped envelope and 30 cents in mint US postage to cover copying to:
John Hotchner
care of Linn's Editor
Box 29
Sidney, OH 45365
More information about this can be found on page 6 of the August 12, 2013 issue of Linns.
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Drug attics such as Elvis Presley and a few other personalities got stamps, Armstrong did only what almost every other bicycling rider does or did, only he got caught. I'm in favor of issuing Medal of Honor winners living or dead in the United States......heros one and all. No politicians, especially Liberals, but honest to goodness moral human beings living or dead that contribute to the betterment of mankind. That leaves out Clinton and the Kennedy clans. We could add Nixon in there too! A few good statesmen are good examples of I'll try to be honest in government types such as Stevenson. Audey Murphy was an American hero and Medal of Honor receipient and he deserved his stamp. Please post office NO Michael Jackson stamp you'll dishonor those who earned the priveledge. This is my personal comentary, I'm sure Dryer will have his comment on me, for sure.
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It's not that CSA was physically beyond the US borders, but the CSA post office department was NOT a US governmental agency any therefore not subject to their guidelines.
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CSA stamps were not honored in the US; and US demonetized its stamps to preclude any of those already in CSA hands from being used. I believe most members of the Confederacy would view themselves as outside the US; and the US certainly had no control over any sovereign CSA territory absent its occupation under arms.
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Don't mean to be pedantic but...... When did the regulation regarding living Persons on Stamps actually get put into writing ? My only point is that the CSA Stamps were produced and sent through a postage system in the U.S. (I have some on cover with legitimate Postmarks / Cancels). So they are the only Stamps issued in the U.S. where a living Person was featured AFAIK.
I really could care less if they honor living People or not but I think Lance Armstrong is a great case and point for waiting until someone is no longer living to be featured on a Stamp. This way the USPS wouldn't need to recall 10 Million Stamps because we found out the Person is a fraud.
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Stallzer is right on point in my book!
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I think having living persons on stamps is a win win situation. If someone wants their picture or likeness on a stamp the USPS certainly should provide the opportunity at a price. Then I can start a new US topical collection called disgraced Americans on stamps.
Seriously the only qualifications to get onto a stamp are the person must have been famous and must be dead. There isn’t a review process to ensure only popular people who never made mistakes in life make it onto a stamp. If that were the case then nobody would be on a stamp. So let’s just drop the dead part and let the free market dictate who gets to have their mug on a stamp or not. Or you can always use "Rule number one" let the public vote on who gets on the next stamp. Uncle Phil from the Duck Dynasty gets my vote
The USPS could let corporations advertise on the fronts of stamps too. I can see it now a Cherry Coke flavored lick and stick stamp or Fords new line of cars complete with the new car smell. The possibilities are endless 
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Stallzer is way out in left field in my book.
"Don't mean to be pedantic but...... When did the regulation regarding living Persons on Stamps actually get put into writing ?"
It's a longstanding rule that only allowed for an exception for recently deceased Presidents. I don't know the exact year, but it was likely over 100 years ago.
"My only point is that the CSA Stamps were produced and sent through a postage system in the U.S. (I have some on cover with legitimate Postmarks / Cancels). So they are the only Stamps issued in the U.S. where a living Person was featured AFAIK."
No, you are wrong. There is a rich history here in Kentucky (a neutral state) of North-South transfer covers. Mail between the North and South was facilitated for a while using transfer companies. (Refer to the Dietz Confederate States Catalog and Handbook for details). A major route was Nashville, TN to Louisville, KY (now I-65). Mail from the North to South had CSA stamps added to the cover, but mail from the South had to be placed in a new cover since the North would not process ANY mail with a CSA stamp on it even if the appropriate US postage was added.
CSA stamps were NOT officially "issued" in the U.S. You can consider them Cinderellas in the US, or officially issued stamps in a non-US territory, but you can't have it both ways.
"I really could care less if they honor living People or not but I think Lance Armstrong is a great case and point for waiting until someone is no longer living to be featured on a Stamp. This way the USPS wouldn't need to recall 10 Million Stamps because we found out the Person is a fraud."
USPS wouldn't have to recall many stamps unless the fraud was discovered shortly after the release of the stamp, so that's not a major concern. Besides, is Lance Armstrong a bigger fraud than Richard Nixon (who got a stamp)?
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09:29:03am
Shortly after this year's Wimbledon, British Royal Mail issued a souvenir sheet honoring the victor. 10 Years (even 5 years?) from now, will this stamp have any relevance? I would think not. Just a way to get people to purchase the stamps (money grab) and any other peripheral items in the "heat of the moment".
I can think of another event that if the USPS were to issue a stamp to honor a living person that would give the entire idea a black eye. That is the Tour de France and Lance Armstrong. Yes, it looked great when he won all those races. So issue a stamp for him. Not even 10 years later...but he would always be honored on a US stamp. Deserving? No.
I vote "NO" for depicting living people on stamps. If what they did in their lifetime was truly important and meaningful, then a stamp could be issued to honor their memory.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
12 Aug 2013
01:09:52pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
I don't agree, Michael, life is for the living. I was a big fan of Lance Armstrong
before his feet turned to clay. Do you propose a stamp be issued to honour
his infamy once he is dead?
What about that endless parade of living royalty, dictators, despots and other ignobility depicted
on the stamps of many nations? Your value judgements are yours and I respect them,
but don't force them on me or others, please.
The biggest attraction of stamp collecting for me is that the hobby embraces everything
on the planet. I do not want any arbitrary exclusions.
John Derry
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Canada has been depicting living people on stamps for years, including NHL hockey players.
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04:40:52pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
"Your value judgements are yours and I respect them,
but don't force them on me or others, please."
I'm not forcing any of my values on anyone. I was just starting a discussion on the topic of living people being depicted on stamps, and stating how I felt about it. I also like to eat apples, but I'm not telling you or anyone else to eat them.
Do I have to do around here when I write a post, add a disclaimer that I apologize for forcing myself on anyone, that they are not obligated to do anything that I say, that the opinions and statements made in my posts are not binding nor a reflection on any of the officers and members of SOR and are those solely of the writer? Do you belong to the VSC too?
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-08-12 21:56:33)
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Well, Andy Murray winning Wimbledon was a huge deal for Great Britain and Scotland, and it will likely still be a big deal for them years for now. But, given the track record of all these famous athletes, politicians, etc..., I think the honor of being on a postage stamp should be reserved for someone whose reputation has stood the test of time. Just my opinion......Sally
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
12 Aug 2013
09:49:30pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
Oh, Michael, Michael…my heart lies bleeding…
You know I have only the highest respect for your philatelic knowledge, and for your provocative commentary which always provokes me to respond in kind. I respectfully request you to recalibrate your sensitivity meter to ignore my natterings as I had no intention of offending you or any other member of Stamporama. You, of all Stamporama members, should know that my penchant for candid discussion always trumps my feeble sense of diplomacy - I simply can't help it, it's in my DNA. I am a proponent of free speech for everyone.
Obviously I have offended you and I apologize without reservation. Forgive my transgression and please continue to provoke me as you see fit. I've recalibrated my own sensitivity meter to read your comments with less passion and more understanding.
"God created the world,
But it is the Devil who keeps it going."
(Tristan Bernard)
John Derry
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02:30:06am
re: No Living People on Stamps
Mandarins for me thanks
Cheers
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Yes, the etymology of "natter" is British:
"natter [ˈnætə] Chiefly Brit
vb
(intr) to talk idly and at length; chatter or gossip
n
prolonged idle chatter or gossip
[changed from gnatter to grumble, of imitative origin; compare Low German gnatteren]
natterer n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000"
Roger And in case you hadn't guessed already, I am an unapologetic "word nerd"!
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
13 Aug 2013
01:33:30pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
The comptrollers of postal institutions can make an easy financial case for putting living persons on postage stamps because those stamps sell. Nothing else matters in an environment where dragon flies are outliving post offices.
In this age of instantaneous global communication, the smartphone generation is calling the shot.
Fifteen minutes of Wharholian fame and then it's the end of history.
Market the product while it enjoys its brief celebrity life span in the electronic media. Your flavour of the moment is already the victim of supersession.
British Royal Mail's issue of a souvenir stamp sheet to honour their guy who won this year's Wimbledon was a survival ploy and the Brit who won the Tour de France is likely next on deck.
Using "reputation" as a criterion for postage-stamp depiction is invalid. Reputations do not stand the test of time (check out Mother Teresa, Albert Schweitzer, Baden-Powell et al.)
Alive or dead, does it really matter? Canada puts cartoon characters on its postage stamps for
crying out loud.
John Derry
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re: No Living People on Stamps
the only flaw in the ointment, ooops, argument, John is that it's not sales that matter but retention. Only if they retain Dudley DooRight or Jane Fonda, for instance, does Canada Post or USPS actually benefit the bottom line; otherwise, might as well have been one of our flags.
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03:01:31pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
I have no problem with the topical use of stamps to feature living individuals, not even a problem with honoring anyone's 15 minutes of glory playing tennis or whatever. Hey, maybe it will spurn interest in stamp collecting!
What I would have an issue with is how those living persons get selected. Up for the highest bidder? Those with most influence? Political figures? (right now, I won't buy any of those stamps for sure!) Postmasters? And we also risk getting into the whole political correctness thing; if you feature this person representing this group, you have to feature that person representing that group, etc. Ugh. Enough!
But honoring heroes such as fire fighters, for example, would be fine with me (no, ladies, I'm not talking about a hunky stamp of the month thing here!), or even better, teachers! With actual people, maybe the teacher of the year in some state. Or scientists! (speaking of which, why isn't there a stamp for Carl Sagan? )
Anyway, that's my two bits on this.
Peter
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03:03:29pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
"(speaking of which, why isn't there a stamp for Carl Sagan?"
Because they'd have to print "billions and billions" of stamps!
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re: No Living People on Stamps
I believe that the US has only featured one individual on a Stamp and that was Jefferson Davis ?
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re: No Living People on Stamps
"I believe that the US has only featured one individual on a Stamp and that was Jefferson Davis ?"
That wasn't the US. It was the CSA. They also printed a one cent stamp with John C. Calhoun (VP of CSA) that didn't make it into circulation.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
I don't like living people on stamps, either. It's just a personal thing and I'm not passionate enough about it to defend my position, nor will I complain if Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins are still alive in 2019 and their likenesses is placed with Neil Armstrong's on a 50th Anniversary Moon Landing Stamp.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
"That wasn't the US. It was the CSA. "
Did not know that the CSA was outside of the U.S.
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06:32:12pm
re: No Living People on Stamps
The count of living people pictured on US stamps is now at 62. None were being commemorated, they just wound up on the stamp from the picture or the image drawn for the stamp from an original source. The latest discovery of a living person on a US stamp is US Scott #3502f. The woman who modeled for the painting is still alive.
If you want a list of the 62 stamps, send a business-sized self-addressed stamped envelope and 30 cents in mint US postage to cover copying to:
John Hotchner
care of Linn's Editor
Box 29
Sidney, OH 45365
More information about this can be found on page 6 of the August 12, 2013 issue of Linns.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Drug attics such as Elvis Presley and a few other personalities got stamps, Armstrong did only what almost every other bicycling rider does or did, only he got caught. I'm in favor of issuing Medal of Honor winners living or dead in the United States......heros one and all. No politicians, especially Liberals, but honest to goodness moral human beings living or dead that contribute to the betterment of mankind. That leaves out Clinton and the Kennedy clans. We could add Nixon in there too! A few good statesmen are good examples of I'll try to be honest in government types such as Stevenson. Audey Murphy was an American hero and Medal of Honor receipient and he deserved his stamp. Please post office NO Michael Jackson stamp you'll dishonor those who earned the priveledge. This is my personal comentary, I'm sure Dryer will have his comment on me, for sure.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
It's not that CSA was physically beyond the US borders, but the CSA post office department was NOT a US governmental agency any therefore not subject to their guidelines.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
CSA stamps were not honored in the US; and US demonetized its stamps to preclude any of those already in CSA hands from being used. I believe most members of the Confederacy would view themselves as outside the US; and the US certainly had no control over any sovereign CSA territory absent its occupation under arms.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Don't mean to be pedantic but...... When did the regulation regarding living Persons on Stamps actually get put into writing ? My only point is that the CSA Stamps were produced and sent through a postage system in the U.S. (I have some on cover with legitimate Postmarks / Cancels). So they are the only Stamps issued in the U.S. where a living Person was featured AFAIK.
I really could care less if they honor living People or not but I think Lance Armstrong is a great case and point for waiting until someone is no longer living to be featured on a Stamp. This way the USPS wouldn't need to recall 10 Million Stamps because we found out the Person is a fraud.
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Stallzer is right on point in my book!
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re: No Living People on Stamps
I think having living persons on stamps is a win win situation. If someone wants their picture or likeness on a stamp the USPS certainly should provide the opportunity at a price. Then I can start a new US topical collection called disgraced Americans on stamps.
Seriously the only qualifications to get onto a stamp are the person must have been famous and must be dead. There isn’t a review process to ensure only popular people who never made mistakes in life make it onto a stamp. If that were the case then nobody would be on a stamp. So let’s just drop the dead part and let the free market dictate who gets to have their mug on a stamp or not. Or you can always use "Rule number one" let the public vote on who gets on the next stamp. Uncle Phil from the Duck Dynasty gets my vote
The USPS could let corporations advertise on the fronts of stamps too. I can see it now a Cherry Coke flavored lick and stick stamp or Fords new line of cars complete with the new car smell. The possibilities are endless
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re: No Living People on Stamps
Stallzer is way out in left field in my book.
"Don't mean to be pedantic but...... When did the regulation regarding living Persons on Stamps actually get put into writing ?"
It's a longstanding rule that only allowed for an exception for recently deceased Presidents. I don't know the exact year, but it was likely over 100 years ago.
"My only point is that the CSA Stamps were produced and sent through a postage system in the U.S. (I have some on cover with legitimate Postmarks / Cancels). So they are the only Stamps issued in the U.S. where a living Person was featured AFAIK."
No, you are wrong. There is a rich history here in Kentucky (a neutral state) of North-South transfer covers. Mail between the North and South was facilitated for a while using transfer companies. (Refer to the Dietz Confederate States Catalog and Handbook for details). A major route was Nashville, TN to Louisville, KY (now I-65). Mail from the North to South had CSA stamps added to the cover, but mail from the South had to be placed in a new cover since the North would not process ANY mail with a CSA stamp on it even if the appropriate US postage was added.
CSA stamps were NOT officially "issued" in the U.S. You can consider them Cinderellas in the US, or officially issued stamps in a non-US territory, but you can't have it both ways.
"I really could care less if they honor living People or not but I think Lance Armstrong is a great case and point for waiting until someone is no longer living to be featured on a Stamp. This way the USPS wouldn't need to recall 10 Million Stamps because we found out the Person is a fraud."
USPS wouldn't have to recall many stamps unless the fraud was discovered shortly after the release of the stamp, so that's not a major concern. Besides, is Lance Armstrong a bigger fraud than Richard Nixon (who got a stamp)?
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