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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

 

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

04 Jul 2013
09:10:13pm
"..... I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! . ...."

In the July 15th, Linn's, Steven R. Myers, Scott Catalog Valuing Analyst wrote an interesting piece about Scott's listings. ( July 15th, 2013 pages 54 & 85)

The subject is Scott's policy to list recently issued mint stamps at "double the face value."

A key excerpt;
" .... Stamp suppliers contracted to various postal administrations are producing stamps and wholesaling them at less than face value to their clients. This development may eventually have an effect on this subject and potentially a major one in some countries.

" ....These suppliers design and print new issue stamps and send a quantity to the issuing country
(Usually at little or no cost to the country ), but have the ability to print as many more stamps as they want (or per contract) and sell them at any price they wish through their own distribution system. This allows for retail sales of these stamps at face value, possibly below, or at a smaller percentage than normal mark-up, from the beginning of the issue.

" .... This alone makes some of these issues at double face value speculative, but as these companies have no more invested in the postage stamps than the printing costs, it could possibly lead to even more lowering of the prices or even dumping of a large quantity of an issue that has not sold well, or if the company needs revenue. ...."


Forever stamps, or NVIs, he goes on to write, create a dilemma to the double face value rule. Obviously there will probably be only a tenuous connection twixt the increasing face value as postal rates increase, and the actual retail value on the open market

Wow, imagine that, shades of the Seebecks, the Iron Curtain Wallpaper, and of course, the Jan Jar Labels sold as stamps from Persian Gulf States that often consisted of little more than a few scattered encampments of huts and tents along an otherwise desolate coastline (At least until they figured out that some of our oil was under their sand.) {SARC} Let's see, the Seebecks were issued about 100 years ago.
And as any well read collector knows I could add stamps from Caribbean rocks inhabited only by birds and turtles, stamps of Mongolia and Tannu Tuva, few of which have ever been actually available in their country of issue, or heaven forbid, used to pay the legitimate postal fee for a non-philatelic contrived souvenir
What a shock. Scott's catalog valuing expert prepares to launch himself into the 21st century.

Okay, for years I have mocked Scott's and Gibbon's listings, which I refuse to honor with the word "value," so I suppose my view is more than a little jaded. And my desire for nicely cancelled, postally used issues of the world should be no secret either. But here at least is fair warning, as near the end of his article Mr. Myers adds that, the catalog editors have to recognize that they may have to " .... place a real market value as the catalog value. ...."Don't Tell Anyone
Didn't they try that once before ?

Yes, color me shocked ! Blushing
But then, " ...we'll always have Paris. ..."

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

05 Jul 2013
01:04:39am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

No, Charlie, the colour "shocked" does not suit you.
I tried to colour you "jaded" but red, white and blue
kept cropping up.

It's still the 4th of July in my corner of the world
so it's fitting that I thank you for your service to
flag and country.

Here's a pithy saying for your collection of
aphorisms and axioms. I like it because it also applies
to Canada in spades:

Any citizen who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
by letting the Government take care of him, better take a
closer look at the American Indian.
- Henry Ford


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philb
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08 Jul 2013
03:25:42pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Is there a 3 dollar table open ?

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

08 Jul 2013
04:49:53pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Yes, there is a three dollar table open, it used to be a two dollar table, but you know with inflation and all....!

Welcome to SOR, the friendly place!!!!

Mike

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philb
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08 Jul 2013
07:19:10pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Thanks Mike, You are on the Cape? I met my wife on old Cape Cod..by the Eastham windmill i believe !

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

08 Jul 2013
10:02:48pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Phil,

I'm about 1500 miles south of that Cape, on the west coast of Florida. Cape Coral, about halfway between Tampa and Miami.

Mike

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

08 Jul 2013
10:57:11pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... 1500 miles south of that Cape, on the west coast of Florida. ...."

What we call the "West Coast of the East Coast."

Charlie
Lecanto, Florida

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
philb
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09 Jul 2013
09:18:37am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

My Dad had a condo in Bradenton so i know the St. Pete area ...we used to go down for 3 weeks in the Winter when he was alive..since then i have not had the desire !

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

09 Jul 2013
10:44:49am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I moved the wife and six children here twenty five years ago from Long Island and have only returned to NY once to manage my father's estate.

I love the warm weather.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Rhinelander
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10 Jul 2013
05:59:57am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Hi Charlie,

Interesting that you did not garner one single comment on the possible change to Scott's double face value rule. If you had named your discussion "Scott contemplates changes to double face value rule for new issues," there might have been more of a philatelic discussion.

To summarize the problem: Contracted stamp suppliers print new issues and send a quantity to the issuing country. The remaining stock is sold at any price, possibly below face, through their own distribution system.

My questions:

Which countries specifically adopted this practice recently? Did the Scott editor name names?

Are these suppliers able to sell surplus stock below face while the stamps are still valid postage? Or, are stamps sold below face only after the issue has been put out of circulation (like the Seebeck issues)?

While I do understand that a quick and easy rule, such as double face, is necessary for new issues for which differentiating market prices have not been established yet, I always assumed that market prices are used once the law of supply and demand establishes such values. For the first few years wholesale stamp dealer will stock new issues using a fixed formula for pricing, I would think. Once certain issues sell out faster than others, indicating a desirable topic etc., and stock must be replenished through open market transactions and not from purchases at face from the postal service, pricing will become more nuanced and eventually should be reflected in the catalog values.

What is your take on the use of the word "speculative" in the excerpt you provide? I am not sure what exactly the Scott editor exactly means by that. Is this the fair warning to us that catalog values will be reduced for some countries in an upcoming new edition? Is he advising to shorten Guinea new issues, as the prices are expected to decline?

Arno




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youpiao
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10 Jul 2013
07:31:39am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"Or, are stamps sold below face only after the issue has been put out of circulation"



That's the point; they never see actual circulation within their country.

"What is your take on the use of the word "speculative" in the excerpt you provide? "



I've always hated the use of the word "speculative" in regard to these issues, as if collectors are all betting on their investment value. A more apt term is "dubious," as in
b : questionable or suspect as to true nature-- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dubious

Tedski

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DSCStamps
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10 Jul 2013
05:45:38pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Since we are on the thread of Gambling and we now know that Mike lives in Cape Coral, not Cape Cod, and that Phil visited Florida for a few weeks every year because his father lived in Bradenton, and Charlie moved to Florida with his group of at least six and maybe we are still counting. Charlie has never confessed to how many are still living at home and re-producing, he only admits to what he moved here with. God bless Charlie. But, Phil's story got me going and not that it matters, but it sounds like you visited Florida annually for 3 weeks because you had to and did not enjoy it. You have never been back. Don't know where your father lived, but I worked for 40 years, retired, and knew there was something better than what I had been doing for all my life and gambled on that Florida was the better place. Not much difference in the greener on the other side. I came from Michigan and all of the green forests. The difference is Pine versus Palm, but don't forget the Snow versus Sun. I will opt for the Palms & Sun!!!!! Best Gamble I ever made. And to boot I have met a whole bunch of new enthusiasts in the Cape Coral Stamp Club.
Man, this is really paradise!!!!! Charlie, you are just too far north to enjoy the warmth and charm of SW Florida, and Phil you should give SW Florida a new chance. It is great here and is not Bradenton.

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philb
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10 Jul 2013
09:08:24pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Thanks for the invites..i have seen some nice places but i was born in New York and plan on passing on here..loyal fool that i am..i have enjoyed the South in the service and on trips..i don't see how all those Yankee turncoats can turn into North and South Carolinians..it ain't New York !! And i tried playing golf on Bermuda grass (shredded wheat) Other than that no reason why we can't all get along !!

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

11 Jul 2013
04:39:30am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!


Here is the context in which the term 'speculative' was used:

"This alone makes some of these issues at double face value speculative, but as these companies have no more invested in the postage stamps than the printing costs, it could possibly lead to even more lowering of the prices or even dumping of a large quantity of an issue that has not sold well, or if the company needs revenue. "



I don't think speculative means dubious in this context. I believe it means that the company printing the stamps controls the supply and can thus manipulate prices. Assume 100,000 of a set are printed. Only 5,000 are sent to Timbuktu. Most of these are used up for postage; few Timbuktuans are collectors and will buy mint stamps at face for the supply of collectors. Accordingly, "double face," which assumes that collectors can satisfy their needs initially at face from the postal authorities, is mistaken. Most of the demand must be satisfied from the company printing the stamps at whatever price is charged, which can be less than face value. While this is the possibility that the editor discusses, the opposite case is actually more compelling: limit the supply, charge more than face, drive up the price. If my understanding is correct, this practice thus is somewhat similar to the limited release policy of stamps in communist Czechoslovakia, or the GDR, where the supply was artificially limited for certain stamps.

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philb
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11 Jul 2013
08:41:25am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Sorry that the subject got so far off course,,,we are just stamp collectors talking...as long as everyone is content living where they are..would be happy to meet any of you at a stamp show(APS prefered)) or a stamp club meeting !Happy

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

11 Jul 2013
02:13:16pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I agree with erudite Arno and philosophic Philip, but doubly agree that we are just stamp collectors talking to one another as friends of the hobby.

Within the limitations of my pocketbook and budget, I buy the stamps I want - catalogue value is a secondary, sometimes forgotten, factor. For example: it's absolutely scandalous how Lee Payette winkles more than catalogue value out of my wallet for stamps that she auctions. I recall giving her fifteen bucks for a souvenir stamp sheet that would disgrace the floor of a bus depot men's toilet. Yet, although I'd be too embarrassed to look at its catalogue value, said souvenir sheet (and Lee Payette) has given me my money's worth.

My eyes do not see $$$ when I look at my stamp collection, I see enjoyment.

John Derry

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philb
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11 Jul 2013
03:54:14pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Amen John Derry, i sell stamps i do not need to purchase ones i do...buying is fun,selling is a bit of a chore !

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

12 Jul 2013
01:35:39am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" ... Charlie moved to Florida with his group of at least six and maybe we are still counting. Charlie has never confessed to how many are still living at home and re-producing, he only admits to what he moved here with...."

Yes, the six are now grown and as of last summer now all married. So far, there's fourteen grand children with a very good chance that at least three will be added to the rolls in the near future.
My youngest two are twins. One married last June after finishing her MA. Her husband is also a twin and has twins in his immediate family. So, there is no telling what might happen to Florida's population by next summer.

Image Not Found


" .... Man, this is really paradise!!!!! Charlie, you are just too far north to enjoy the warmth and charm of SW Florida, and Phil you should give SW Florida a new chance. It is great here and is not Bradenton. ...."

The advantage of this part of the Sunshine State is that it is relatively immune from being struck directly by violent Hurricanes, although Hurricane Charlie did have us concerned a few years ago until it veered inland to chase all the scaredy cats who obeyed the evacuation orders and fled to safety right in the Hurricane's new path.. The "Nature Coast" has not been struck directly by a severe hurricane since 1936. There have been a few remnants that passed nearby but nothing more than some wind to harvest broken branches for the barbecue pit's Fourth of July bonfire, and passing squalls to fill my well. BTW, my well, drawing from deep in the Florida Aquifer, has the purest water this side of Lake Biakal and will continue to do so as long as we do not allow the over pumping and contamination that has poisoned the waters under Florida's big cities.


The best way to preserve this slice of Paradise is to send postcards to every relative still living near Phil in New York, or New Jersey or Michigan (Is there really anyone still living in Michigan who is not a first cousin to a Moose anyway ?) and explain about the wonders of the state. We need to refer to the place as Swampland and stressed the thick jungle like foliage filled with snakes and alligators, infested with disgusting insects, some whose ancestral relationship to the common city roach is separated only by it's ample size while others seem to have only two functions in life, midair copulation and clogging automobile front grilles. Instead of the traditional " Y'all come on DOWN !!!" a slightly exaggerated description of the sultry heat, the incessant hurricanes, especially those that are out of season, and the ever present danger of a whole house with all it's possessions and even it's occupants being swallowed up ( actually down ) in sneaky sinkholes, never to be seen or heard from again, unless a flood had already washed the whole family out to sea where to voracious sharks wait at the ten mile reef.
Invite the old family down for a visit if you must, but add, " Bring money, bandages, and be sure to leave tips.


Image Not Found]



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Zipper
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.

12 Jul 2013
03:36:37am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

OMG! It must cost you a fortune at Christmas!

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Jul 2013
04:10:59am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

we missed your daughter's anniversary by a couple of days; shame on us; but happy first anniversary to your daughter and soninlaw

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PeterG
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12 Jul 2013
06:13:22am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I too think that limiting the stocks and thereby chopping up the price is a more appealing thing as some buyers may see high prices as a sign of good investment, thus wanting to keep buying that stuff.
We don´t have Scott catalogues here, I use Stanley Gibbons. My thought on double FV? In Stanley Gibbons it seems to be a "has-been stage" as many new issues are priced at both 3 and 4 times face value.I. e. recent Danish stamps which everyone can purchase from the philatelic dep. at face value. Also via the internet.
That makes those high prices on new issues even more ridicoulos. When I was young the price was like FV + 60% and I happily bought overseas stamps at that price because it was almost impossible to get them from others than dealers. Today most everything is available at the respective philatelic bureaus online and it´s very easy to get hold of at FV. So what´s the pont in a price like: Denmark, SG 1656 8 kr (less than £1 FV) £4,25 vs £3,00?
I wonder Surprise

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philb
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12 Jul 2013
08:33:01am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Don't worry Charlie, next trip to Florida i will set the GPS to your place.(i hope we are not pirating this thread) I have a cousin in Altamonte Springs and she has lots of room and always wants family to come down and stay as long as they like..my wife can not sit around,we have been from the Panhandle to Key West..here we are in Ochopee at the little post office !Image Not Found

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

12 Jul 2013
11:24:32am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... OMG! It must cost you a fortune at Christmas! ...."

X-mas, the never ending parade of birthdays and ever more frequent graduations.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Jul 2013
01:48:55pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"and ever more frequent graduations"



may your family forever count its blessings that they come from such demonstrably intelligent stock that graduations are frequent and expected. would that it were everywhere, Charlie.

David
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Logistical1
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12 Jul 2013
02:48:40pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"The best way to preserve this slice of Paradise is to send postcards to every relative still living near Phil in New York, or New Jersey or Michigan (Is there really anyone still living in Michigan who is not a first cousin to a Moose anyway ?) and explain about the wonders of the state."



Charlie more like first cousin to a deer or bear. As for the elk and moose population in Michigan they are very few. While riding a motorcyle across Florida those roaches on steroids almost decapitated me. I thought I hit a bird.

When your wells all fill up with salt water in Florida we will be happy to send some Great Lakes bottled water down. Laughing



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DSCStamps
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12 Jul 2013
04:12:12pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Charlie - love your view of Florida. Let's just scare them away. I don't want any more immigrants here either. We need to keep it a secret. My memories of Michigan are a lot of snow, clouds, and otherwise being miserable most of the time, no Moose to speak of, a lot of Deer, some Elk, and only a few weeks out of the year that is was paradise. I think all of the Michiganders salivated for those few weeks as you could not find it better anywhere. Well, I guess there was the smell of pines and cedars that cannot be duplicated and was wonderful. Being in the woods has no comparison to being in the swamp and the critters were not nearly as menacing as Florida, except for maybe the Black Flies in the middle of the summer. You felt like you were being bite by a Barracuda in comparison. The skitters here just as blood sucking as anywhere. We need to tell everybody about the lizards, we have a lot of them and in various sizes. If this does not keep the curious away, I don't know what will? Maybe the heat of the summer!!!

I do miss the Michigan water, but it is not salty here as some would suggest. The Michigan well water had a taste you can never forget and it ain't anywhere in Florida.

I am sure everyone has an attachment to where they lived or still live. This is natural, but even though I have fond memories of my past in another world, I am building new ones in a new world - Florida, and I love it. I did not retire to keep mowing the same grass, shoveling the snow, raking the leaves, etc, etc, etc. What I don't like is the increase in traffic on our roads. Secret must be getting out. I think it is the baby-boomers moving in.

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Zipper
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.

12 Jul 2013
05:39:09pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Charlie,

I thought of the birthdays, but at least those are spaced out over the year. It's Christmas when you have to spend a ton of cash all at once. Ouch!

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youpiao
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13 Jul 2013
02:49:39am
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"I thought of the birthdays, but at least those are spaced out over the year. It's Christmas when you have to spend a ton of cash all at once. Ouch!"



Not in my family. An older sister, myself, and my younger sister, have birthdays on Dec 18, 29, and 30. I never got a "birthday" present. It was always a Christmas present that was held back for 4 more days.Laughing

Tedski

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

13 Jul 2013
10:45:07pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... I never got a "birthday" present. It was always a Christmas present that was held back for 4 more days ...."

One of my grand daughters was born on December 26th but my wife and I always do the right thing and have a special birthday gift for her. The key is to make purchases during the year, store them in a big closet and mark who it is for. Memories are far too fragile.
I just came across a box of dollhouse furniture that must have been for one of the now older girls but was left behind. Fortunately it was just right to send to my son's eight year old daughter in Nevada.

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bluparrot

14 Jul 2013
09:33:06pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Love the Casablanca quotes.Applause
One of my favorite movies.

-Les

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

15 Jul 2013
01:01:28pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I never miss an opportunity to watch it when on late night programing.

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cocollectibles

15 Jul 2013
02:40:44pm
re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

My cousin was in Paris once and she went to a special showing of Casablanca (among other old movies that week). At the point where the Marseilles was sung, everyone stood up and sang along! What an experience that must have been! People were clapping, slapping themselves on the back, cheering.

Vive la liberté

Peter

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philb
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15 Jul 2013
03:53:46pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I liked Paris..the tour guide said just say Bon Jour..so i did and everything was fine..we even sprung for the Moulin Rouge..hey once in a lifetime..of course i like Italy,spent 20 months there around 1961...making $144 a month and i could not spend it all if i tried !!!

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Jul 2013
09:10:13pm

"..... I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! . ...."

In the July 15th, Linn's, Steven R. Myers, Scott Catalog Valuing Analyst wrote an interesting piece about Scott's listings. ( July 15th, 2013 pages 54 & 85)

The subject is Scott's policy to list recently issued mint stamps at "double the face value."

A key excerpt;
" .... Stamp suppliers contracted to various postal administrations are producing stamps and wholesaling them at less than face value to their clients. This development may eventually have an effect on this subject and potentially a major one in some countries.

" ....These suppliers design and print new issue stamps and send a quantity to the issuing country
(Usually at little or no cost to the country ), but have the ability to print as many more stamps as they want (or per contract) and sell them at any price they wish through their own distribution system. This allows for retail sales of these stamps at face value, possibly below, or at a smaller percentage than normal mark-up, from the beginning of the issue.

" .... This alone makes some of these issues at double face value speculative, but as these companies have no more invested in the postage stamps than the printing costs, it could possibly lead to even more lowering of the prices or even dumping of a large quantity of an issue that has not sold well, or if the company needs revenue. ...."


Forever stamps, or NVIs, he goes on to write, create a dilemma to the double face value rule. Obviously there will probably be only a tenuous connection twixt the increasing face value as postal rates increase, and the actual retail value on the open market

Wow, imagine that, shades of the Seebecks, the Iron Curtain Wallpaper, and of course, the Jan Jar Labels sold as stamps from Persian Gulf States that often consisted of little more than a few scattered encampments of huts and tents along an otherwise desolate coastline (At least until they figured out that some of our oil was under their sand.) {SARC} Let's see, the Seebecks were issued about 100 years ago.
And as any well read collector knows I could add stamps from Caribbean rocks inhabited only by birds and turtles, stamps of Mongolia and Tannu Tuva, few of which have ever been actually available in their country of issue, or heaven forbid, used to pay the legitimate postal fee for a non-philatelic contrived souvenir
What a shock. Scott's catalog valuing expert prepares to launch himself into the 21st century.

Okay, for years I have mocked Scott's and Gibbon's listings, which I refuse to honor with the word "value," so I suppose my view is more than a little jaded. And my desire for nicely cancelled, postally used issues of the world should be no secret either. But here at least is fair warning, as near the end of his article Mr. Myers adds that, the catalog editors have to recognize that they may have to " .... place a real market value as the catalog value. ...."Don't Tell Anyone
Didn't they try that once before ?

Yes, color me shocked ! Blushing
But then, " ...we'll always have Paris. ..."

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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
05 Jul 2013
01:04:39am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

No, Charlie, the colour "shocked" does not suit you.
I tried to colour you "jaded" but red, white and blue
kept cropping up.

It's still the 4th of July in my corner of the world
so it's fitting that I thank you for your service to
flag and country.

Here's a pithy saying for your collection of
aphorisms and axioms. I like it because it also applies
to Canada in spades:

Any citizen who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
by letting the Government take care of him, better take a
closer look at the American Indian.
- Henry Ford


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philb

08 Jul 2013
03:25:42pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Is there a 3 dollar table open ?

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Mike
08 Jul 2013
04:49:53pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Yes, there is a three dollar table open, it used to be a two dollar table, but you know with inflation and all....!

Welcome to SOR, the friendly place!!!!

Mike

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philb

08 Jul 2013
07:19:10pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Thanks Mike, You are on the Cape? I met my wife on old Cape Cod..by the Eastham windmill i believe !

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08 Jul 2013
10:02:48pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Phil,

I'm about 1500 miles south of that Cape, on the west coast of Florida. Cape Coral, about halfway between Tampa and Miami.

Mike

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 Jul 2013
10:57:11pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... 1500 miles south of that Cape, on the west coast of Florida. ...."

What we call the "West Coast of the East Coast."

Charlie
Lecanto, Florida

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philb

09 Jul 2013
09:18:37am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

My Dad had a condo in Bradenton so i know the St. Pete area ...we used to go down for 3 weeks in the Winter when he was alive..since then i have not had the desire !

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
09 Jul 2013
10:44:49am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I moved the wife and six children here twenty five years ago from Long Island and have only returned to NY once to manage my father's estate.

I love the warm weather.

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10 Jul 2013
05:59:57am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Hi Charlie,

Interesting that you did not garner one single comment on the possible change to Scott's double face value rule. If you had named your discussion "Scott contemplates changes to double face value rule for new issues," there might have been more of a philatelic discussion.

To summarize the problem: Contracted stamp suppliers print new issues and send a quantity to the issuing country. The remaining stock is sold at any price, possibly below face, through their own distribution system.

My questions:

Which countries specifically adopted this practice recently? Did the Scott editor name names?

Are these suppliers able to sell surplus stock below face while the stamps are still valid postage? Or, are stamps sold below face only after the issue has been put out of circulation (like the Seebeck issues)?

While I do understand that a quick and easy rule, such as double face, is necessary for new issues for which differentiating market prices have not been established yet, I always assumed that market prices are used once the law of supply and demand establishes such values. For the first few years wholesale stamp dealer will stock new issues using a fixed formula for pricing, I would think. Once certain issues sell out faster than others, indicating a desirable topic etc., and stock must be replenished through open market transactions and not from purchases at face from the postal service, pricing will become more nuanced and eventually should be reflected in the catalog values.

What is your take on the use of the word "speculative" in the excerpt you provide? I am not sure what exactly the Scott editor exactly means by that. Is this the fair warning to us that catalog values will be reduced for some countries in an upcoming new edition? Is he advising to shorten Guinea new issues, as the prices are expected to decline?

Arno




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youpiao

10 Jul 2013
07:31:39am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"Or, are stamps sold below face only after the issue has been put out of circulation"



That's the point; they never see actual circulation within their country.

"What is your take on the use of the word "speculative" in the excerpt you provide? "



I've always hated the use of the word "speculative" in regard to these issues, as if collectors are all betting on their investment value. A more apt term is "dubious," as in
b : questionable or suspect as to true nature-- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dubious

Tedski

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10 Jul 2013
05:45:38pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Since we are on the thread of Gambling and we now know that Mike lives in Cape Coral, not Cape Cod, and that Phil visited Florida for a few weeks every year because his father lived in Bradenton, and Charlie moved to Florida with his group of at least six and maybe we are still counting. Charlie has never confessed to how many are still living at home and re-producing, he only admits to what he moved here with. God bless Charlie. But, Phil's story got me going and not that it matters, but it sounds like you visited Florida annually for 3 weeks because you had to and did not enjoy it. You have never been back. Don't know where your father lived, but I worked for 40 years, retired, and knew there was something better than what I had been doing for all my life and gambled on that Florida was the better place. Not much difference in the greener on the other side. I came from Michigan and all of the green forests. The difference is Pine versus Palm, but don't forget the Snow versus Sun. I will opt for the Palms & Sun!!!!! Best Gamble I ever made. And to boot I have met a whole bunch of new enthusiasts in the Cape Coral Stamp Club.
Man, this is really paradise!!!!! Charlie, you are just too far north to enjoy the warmth and charm of SW Florida, and Phil you should give SW Florida a new chance. It is great here and is not Bradenton.

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philb

10 Jul 2013
09:08:24pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Thanks for the invites..i have seen some nice places but i was born in New York and plan on passing on here..loyal fool that i am..i have enjoyed the South in the service and on trips..i don't see how all those Yankee turncoats can turn into North and South Carolinians..it ain't New York !! And i tried playing golf on Bermuda grass (shredded wheat) Other than that no reason why we can't all get along !!

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Rhinelander

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11 Jul 2013
04:39:30am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!


Here is the context in which the term 'speculative' was used:

"This alone makes some of these issues at double face value speculative, but as these companies have no more invested in the postage stamps than the printing costs, it could possibly lead to even more lowering of the prices or even dumping of a large quantity of an issue that has not sold well, or if the company needs revenue. "



I don't think speculative means dubious in this context. I believe it means that the company printing the stamps controls the supply and can thus manipulate prices. Assume 100,000 of a set are printed. Only 5,000 are sent to Timbuktu. Most of these are used up for postage; few Timbuktuans are collectors and will buy mint stamps at face for the supply of collectors. Accordingly, "double face," which assumes that collectors can satisfy their needs initially at face from the postal authorities, is mistaken. Most of the demand must be satisfied from the company printing the stamps at whatever price is charged, which can be less than face value. While this is the possibility that the editor discusses, the opposite case is actually more compelling: limit the supply, charge more than face, drive up the price. If my understanding is correct, this practice thus is somewhat similar to the limited release policy of stamps in communist Czechoslovakia, or the GDR, where the supply was artificially limited for certain stamps.

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philb

11 Jul 2013
08:41:25am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Sorry that the subject got so far off course,,,we are just stamp collectors talking...as long as everyone is content living where they are..would be happy to meet any of you at a stamp show(APS prefered)) or a stamp club meeting !Happy

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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
11 Jul 2013
02:13:16pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I agree with erudite Arno and philosophic Philip, but doubly agree that we are just stamp collectors talking to one another as friends of the hobby.

Within the limitations of my pocketbook and budget, I buy the stamps I want - catalogue value is a secondary, sometimes forgotten, factor. For example: it's absolutely scandalous how Lee Payette winkles more than catalogue value out of my wallet for stamps that she auctions. I recall giving her fifteen bucks for a souvenir stamp sheet that would disgrace the floor of a bus depot men's toilet. Yet, although I'd be too embarrassed to look at its catalogue value, said souvenir sheet (and Lee Payette) has given me my money's worth.

My eyes do not see $$$ when I look at my stamp collection, I see enjoyment.

John Derry

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philb

11 Jul 2013
03:54:14pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Amen John Derry, i sell stamps i do not need to purchase ones i do...buying is fun,selling is a bit of a chore !

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Jul 2013
01:35:39am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" ... Charlie moved to Florida with his group of at least six and maybe we are still counting. Charlie has never confessed to how many are still living at home and re-producing, he only admits to what he moved here with...."

Yes, the six are now grown and as of last summer now all married. So far, there's fourteen grand children with a very good chance that at least three will be added to the rolls in the near future.
My youngest two are twins. One married last June after finishing her MA. Her husband is also a twin and has twins in his immediate family. So, there is no telling what might happen to Florida's population by next summer.

Image Not Found


" .... Man, this is really paradise!!!!! Charlie, you are just too far north to enjoy the warmth and charm of SW Florida, and Phil you should give SW Florida a new chance. It is great here and is not Bradenton. ...."

The advantage of this part of the Sunshine State is that it is relatively immune from being struck directly by violent Hurricanes, although Hurricane Charlie did have us concerned a few years ago until it veered inland to chase all the scaredy cats who obeyed the evacuation orders and fled to safety right in the Hurricane's new path.. The "Nature Coast" has not been struck directly by a severe hurricane since 1936. There have been a few remnants that passed nearby but nothing more than some wind to harvest broken branches for the barbecue pit's Fourth of July bonfire, and passing squalls to fill my well. BTW, my well, drawing from deep in the Florida Aquifer, has the purest water this side of Lake Biakal and will continue to do so as long as we do not allow the over pumping and contamination that has poisoned the waters under Florida's big cities.


The best way to preserve this slice of Paradise is to send postcards to every relative still living near Phil in New York, or New Jersey or Michigan (Is there really anyone still living in Michigan who is not a first cousin to a Moose anyway ?) and explain about the wonders of the state. We need to refer to the place as Swampland and stressed the thick jungle like foliage filled with snakes and alligators, infested with disgusting insects, some whose ancestral relationship to the common city roach is separated only by it's ample size while others seem to have only two functions in life, midair copulation and clogging automobile front grilles. Instead of the traditional " Y'all come on DOWN !!!" a slightly exaggerated description of the sultry heat, the incessant hurricanes, especially those that are out of season, and the ever present danger of a whole house with all it's possessions and even it's occupants being swallowed up ( actually down ) in sneaky sinkholes, never to be seen or heard from again, unless a flood had already washed the whole family out to sea where to voracious sharks wait at the ten mile reef.
Invite the old family down for a visit if you must, but add, " Bring money, bandages, and be sure to leave tips.


Image Not Found]



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12 Jul 2013
03:36:37am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

OMG! It must cost you a fortune at Christmas!

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
12 Jul 2013
04:10:59am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

we missed your daughter's anniversary by a couple of days; shame on us; but happy first anniversary to your daughter and soninlaw

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PeterG

12 Jul 2013
06:13:22am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I too think that limiting the stocks and thereby chopping up the price is a more appealing thing as some buyers may see high prices as a sign of good investment, thus wanting to keep buying that stuff.
We don´t have Scott catalogues here, I use Stanley Gibbons. My thought on double FV? In Stanley Gibbons it seems to be a "has-been stage" as many new issues are priced at both 3 and 4 times face value.I. e. recent Danish stamps which everyone can purchase from the philatelic dep. at face value. Also via the internet.
That makes those high prices on new issues even more ridicoulos. When I was young the price was like FV + 60% and I happily bought overseas stamps at that price because it was almost impossible to get them from others than dealers. Today most everything is available at the respective philatelic bureaus online and it´s very easy to get hold of at FV. So what´s the pont in a price like: Denmark, SG 1656 8 kr (less than £1 FV) £4,25 vs £3,00?
I wonder Surprise

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philb

12 Jul 2013
08:33:01am

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Don't worry Charlie, next trip to Florida i will set the GPS to your place.(i hope we are not pirating this thread) I have a cousin in Altamonte Springs and she has lots of room and always wants family to come down and stay as long as they like..my wife can not sit around,we have been from the Panhandle to Key West..here we are in Ochopee at the little post office !Image Not Found

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12 Jul 2013
11:24:32am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... OMG! It must cost you a fortune at Christmas! ...."

X-mas, the never ending parade of birthdays and ever more frequent graduations.


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12 Jul 2013
01:48:55pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"and ever more frequent graduations"



may your family forever count its blessings that they come from such demonstrably intelligent stock that graduations are frequent and expected. would that it were everywhere, Charlie.

David
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Logistical1

12 Jul 2013
02:48:40pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"The best way to preserve this slice of Paradise is to send postcards to every relative still living near Phil in New York, or New Jersey or Michigan (Is there really anyone still living in Michigan who is not a first cousin to a Moose anyway ?) and explain about the wonders of the state."



Charlie more like first cousin to a deer or bear. As for the elk and moose population in Michigan they are very few. While riding a motorcyle across Florida those roaches on steroids almost decapitated me. I thought I hit a bird.

When your wells all fill up with salt water in Florida we will be happy to send some Great Lakes bottled water down. Laughing



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DSCStamps

12 Jul 2013
04:12:12pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Charlie - love your view of Florida. Let's just scare them away. I don't want any more immigrants here either. We need to keep it a secret. My memories of Michigan are a lot of snow, clouds, and otherwise being miserable most of the time, no Moose to speak of, a lot of Deer, some Elk, and only a few weeks out of the year that is was paradise. I think all of the Michiganders salivated for those few weeks as you could not find it better anywhere. Well, I guess there was the smell of pines and cedars that cannot be duplicated and was wonderful. Being in the woods has no comparison to being in the swamp and the critters were not nearly as menacing as Florida, except for maybe the Black Flies in the middle of the summer. You felt like you were being bite by a Barracuda in comparison. The skitters here just as blood sucking as anywhere. We need to tell everybody about the lizards, we have a lot of them and in various sizes. If this does not keep the curious away, I don't know what will? Maybe the heat of the summer!!!

I do miss the Michigan water, but it is not salty here as some would suggest. The Michigan well water had a taste you can never forget and it ain't anywhere in Florida.

I am sure everyone has an attachment to where they lived or still live. This is natural, but even though I have fond memories of my past in another world, I am building new ones in a new world - Florida, and I love it. I did not retire to keep mowing the same grass, shoveling the snow, raking the leaves, etc, etc, etc. What I don't like is the increase in traffic on our roads. Secret must be getting out. I think it is the baby-boomers moving in.

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12 Jul 2013
05:39:09pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Charlie,

I thought of the birthdays, but at least those are spaced out over the year. It's Christmas when you have to spend a ton of cash all at once. Ouch!

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youpiao

13 Jul 2013
02:49:39am

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

"I thought of the birthdays, but at least those are spaced out over the year. It's Christmas when you have to spend a ton of cash all at once. Ouch!"



Not in my family. An older sister, myself, and my younger sister, have birthdays on Dec 18, 29, and 30. I never got a "birthday" present. It was always a Christmas present that was held back for 4 more days.Laughing

Tedski

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jul 2013
10:45:07pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

" .... I never got a "birthday" present. It was always a Christmas present that was held back for 4 more days ...."

One of my grand daughters was born on December 26th but my wife and I always do the right thing and have a special birthday gift for her. The key is to make purchases during the year, store them in a big closet and mark who it is for. Memories are far too fragile.
I just came across a box of dollhouse furniture that must have been for one of the now older girls but was left behind. Fortunately it was just right to send to my son's eight year old daughter in Nevada.

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bluparrot

14 Jul 2013
09:33:06pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Love the Casablanca quotes.Applause
One of my favorite movies.

-Les

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15 Jul 2013
01:01:28pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I never miss an opportunity to watch it when on late night programing.

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cocollectibles

15 Jul 2013
02:40:44pm

re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

My cousin was in Paris once and she went to a special showing of Casablanca (among other old movies that week). At the point where the Marseilles was sung, everyone stood up and sang along! What an experience that must have been! People were clapping, slapping themselves on the back, cheering.

Vive la liberté

Peter

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15 Jul 2013
03:53:46pm

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re: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I liked Paris..the tour guide said just say Bon Jour..so i did and everything was fine..we even sprung for the Moulin Rouge..hey once in a lifetime..of course i like Italy,spent 20 months there around 1961...making $144 a month and i could not spend it all if i tried !!!

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