I never considered the 50c Columbian reprint for International LC rate. Good call! I just noticed 2532 Switzerland, 2836 Soccer, and 2840 Rockwell for the letter rate, and 2835 Soccer for the card rate, in '91 to '94.
Very nice to get the Ruth Benedict on an International cover! Equally challenging is the 35c Dennis Chavez on a cover to Mexico. The big haul is to get a 2187 Claire Chennault to Canada in '91 to '94 and to Mexico in '95 to '98!
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Lars,
The Ruth Benedict info I got from your Rate Page of Airmail Album. As for 2187 Claire Chennault and Dennis Chavez - I will keep my eyes open for them. Also got the Ruth Benedict on a postcard to Canada (picture below).
It is really difficult to find covers bearing single Mexico rate stamp. Canada and Mexico rates are somewhat a jumble for the years 1976-2000.
Saleem: Nice covers! At first glance, I did not recognize ther 50c Columbian, as the modern isssue.I thought to myself: Wow! someone used a 50c Columbian as postage in the 21st. Century! Ted.
If that was the original Columbian I'd have boasted instead of posted
Here are others that were added to my US International airmail rate collection recently.
Scott #3140a on cover to Canada - overpaid but still a nice acquisition solo used on cover.
Scott # C138 solo proper use on cover to Canada, these are difficult to find
Scott # C138a (the different perforation) solo proper use on cover to Canada, these are also difficult to find. Now the remaining one with the 2005 year date is what I'm looking for
Saleem, I got the info for rates from a comprehensive book by Anthony S. Wawrukiewicz and Henry W. Beecher - U.S. International Postal Rates, 1872-1996 - plus the "Addenda and Erratica" that can be found online. The companion U.S. Domestic Postal Rates 1872-1999 is also useful to see if there WAS a common domestic need for a particular denomination. I have them in my library if you need something specific looked up, but you may want to secure your own copy for more extensive research. The APS Library may have a copy available for loan. It's a VERY useful resource!
Saleem,
I'm a bit confused by the 3140a. You say it's overpaid, but I think you mean it's not contemporary. When 3140a was issued (1997), 60c was the International Letter rate (Canada and Mexico were cheaper), but when this was postmarked (2004), 60c was the letter rate to Canada (and Mexico). I think it's the correct postage amount.
Lars
Appreciate your correction on the Canada rate for the 3140a - I meant to say that I am looking for a proper use during the rate period. You are right the stamp on cover is paying proper postage but when the stamp was in circulation it was intended for half ounce international airmail which lasted from 9th July 1995 to 6th January 2001.
I will gladly take on your offer of help with rates from the two books you mentioned, earlier I got some help from Steve Davis on some international rates. What I would like to know is the rate/destination/time period for the 15¢ Transport Plane issue Sc. #C28.
The info I have says that this was issued for Central America and some countries of the Caribbean ½oz. letter rate fro the period (unspecific) starting 1941 till 30th September 1946. Can you please confirm or correct this?
The other help is with Canada 1oz/½oz letter rates and postcard rates of the period when domestic airmail stamps were discontinued (1975) till the specific Canada rate stamps came out (C133 I believe). There is no hurry - just look it up whenever you have time.
And....thanks for the tip on the book available with APS, there is a slight problem
I live in India! It's only help from friends that has got me this far in PH collection
Saleem,
C28 has an EKU of Aug 19, 1941. International Airmail rates before 1946 are complicated and you have to look at the tables for each country. 15 cents was the 1/2 oz airmail rate from July 9, 1940 to Jan 14, 1941, but that rate ended before the EKU. 15 cents was also 1/2 ounce airmail for the following:
Columbia Dec 18, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Costa Rica Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Ecuador Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Fanning and Washington Islands Jan 15, 1945 to Sept 30, 1946
French Guiana Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Guadeloupe Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Guyana Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Honduras May 10, 1929 to Nov 30, 1937 (too early for this stamp)
Leeward Islands Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Martinique Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Panama Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Peru Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Pitcairn Islands 1939 to ???
Suriname Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Trinidad and Tobago Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Venezuela Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Windward Islands Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Effective Nov 1, 1946, 15 cents was the International Airmail rate to Europe, Turkey, Greenland and Mediterranean Africa. If you want a use that was valid during the EKU, you are looking for Costa Rica, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Panama, Trinidad and Tobago, Windward Islands or possible Pitcairn Islands.
All dates are inclusive, so if I put Oct 31, 1946 that means a new rate was effective Nov 1, 1946. Windward Islands are: Grenada, St. Lucia and St. Vincent, with Dominica added Jan 1, 1940.
This takes a lot of digging so I'll address your other questions later.
Hope this helps!
Lars
Saleem,
The rates to Canada are interesting. Postal Bulletin 21059 (Sep 25, 1975) said that letters paid at the Airmail rate and the First Class rate to Canada would be treated exactly the same. An airmail rate of 17c for the first ounce (letter or card) was published pending approval by the Postal Rate Commission, but those rates were useless. It depends on your point of view whether it would be an overpayment or not. PB 21110 (Apr 27, 1977) officially removed the airmail classification from domestic mail and mail to Canada.
Surface and airmail letter and postcard rates to Canada and Mexico were the same as domestic rates until Feb 17, 1985, so there was no need for a special rate stamp to be issued. Here are the rates for Canada from Feb 17, 1985 until you can pick it up from the chart in my Airmail album: (I repeated the 1991 and 1995 listings to include the post card rate and 1 oz 1995 letter rate)
Feb 17, 1985 - 1 oz letter or card: 22c (same as domestic)
Apr 3, 1988 - 1 oz letter: 30c; Post card: 21c
Feb 3, 1991 - 1 oz letter: 40c; Post card 30c
Jul 9, 1995 - 1/2 oz letter: 46c; 1 oz letter 52c; Post card 40c
The rest you can get from my album.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Lars
Excellent help Lars! These two Rate areas have been confusing me a lot and you have explained both in a great way. Really appreciate your taking time-off for this rate-check.
Have been looking for a more proper use of the C28 since long time and like many other South American destination usages this one is really hard to find. The earliest proper use I have is mailed from Honolulu, Hawaii to San Francisco, California postmarked 17th January 1945 but this was not the destination(rate) this stamp was issued for.
As for the Canada (confusing) rate period I will be searching for solo proper use on cover for the US domestic rate postage on covers to Canada starting Feb. 1985 to March 1988, as also covers bearing 30¢, 40¢ and 52¢ for later periods. Though I have a bunch of covers but solo proper uses is what I am looking for - for the above Canada rates there are only definitive that fulfill the requirement.
Thanks for the great help, really appreciate it.
Here are three more I acquired - hard to find these solo used:
Saleem,
I couldn't find a single 30c stamp that was issued any time around the April 1988 rate change to Canada. That seems odd. Am I missing something?
We are looking for 1oz letter rate - couldn't it have been a half ounce rate? The 30¢ Laubach issued in 1984 was still under circulation at that time and probably the USPS thought that it will fulfill the purpose. The 30¢ Cardinal was issued in 1991 which suits the bill for the postcard rate to Canada starting 1991.
Checked my covers stock and found three conforming with the rates you mentioned:
1- 22¢ Keep in Touch solo to Canada postmarked 1st February 1988
2- 30¢ Laubach solo to Canada postmarked 5th March 1990
3- 29¢ Greetings (Toy Engine) + 6¢ Lippman + 5¢ Munoz - total 40¢ on cover to Canada postmarked 8th December 1992 (I am looking for a solo 40¢ for this period)
Saleem
Is this correct for the 40cent single usage to Canada your looking for?
Are there other "modern" rates to Canada that your still looking for?
Rick
I completely forgot about the 40¢ Soccer stamp to Canada - I do have this one mailed from Bay Court, Florida to Ontario, Canada postmarked 21st February 1995. There are still a few that I am looking for, here are they with the time period listed and the probable stamp used solo:-
3rd April 1988 to 2nd February 1991 - 21¢ stamp on postcard to Canada (Chester Carlson definitive)
3rd February 1991 to 8th July 1995 - 30¢ stamp on postcard (30¢ Cardinal definitive)
9th July 1995 to 9th January 1999 - 52¢ stamp on cover (1 oz rate) (Hubert Humphrey definitive)
9th July 1995 to 9th January 1999 - 40¢ stamp on postcard (40¢ Chennault or 40¢ Soccer)
More recent ones:
Scott #3332 - 45¢ UPU used solo on postcard to Canada
Scott #4608-4612 - the 85¢ Eagles - used as singles on covers to Canada
Scott # C138b - Acadia National Park dated 2005 on cover to Canada
Scott #C149 - Glacier National Park - used solo on cover and also on postcard to Canada
There are others more desperately needed mostly on covers to South America and Mexico - if you can help me with any I can post the want list here.
Thanks for your interest in this discussion and reminding me of the 40¢ Soccer cover that I have.
Sorry for the delay in responding, I couldn't get onto the website for a couple of hours.
Taking a quick look I was able to find four of the five eagles and also a C149. For the sake of just doing one scan I overlapped the envelopes but they are complete envelopes and all but one are #10 size.
I don't get much in the way of postcards although its possible I might have some from the 90's. I'll have to do some digging.
Living in Canada that's pretty much what I have access to. Sorry, as of now I really haven't seen anything for S. America or Mexico but I will keep an eye out for you.
Rick
Dear Rick,
Let's continue off-board, I will send you an e-mail.
"We are looking for 1oz letter rate - couldn't it have been a half ounce rate? "
"
The 30¢ Laubach issued in 1984 was still under circulation at that time and probably the USPS thought that it will fulfill the purpose"
Saleem, what are you going to do about the 55c Submarine stamp? There was a 33c (domestic letter), a 55c (international card), 60c (international letter) and a $3.20 (domestic Priority Mail). It's the remaining stamp included in the booklet pane that raises a question. The other stamp is 22c. The domestic post card rate was 20c. 22c was the extra ounce rate. That means the 55c could ALSO be intended for the two ounce domestic rate. It would have been cleaner if they issued the low value at the 20c card rate. I still call the 55c Submarine as intended for Int'l card rate, but I can see someone else making a different call. Keep us posted on your progress!
Couldn't find the date of issue of both the later Laubach stamps, I think that the Plate Number catalog could have these issue dates, if someone has this catalog (Durland) can they please check the dates for 1864a and 1864b
That 55¢ and 60¢ Submarine stamps on PC and Cover will remain a blank space till someone comes up with them in auction someplace. You are right this was intended for International Postcard rate for the very short period starting 27th March 2000(issue date) till 6th January 2001. Similarly the 60¢ Submarine has a very short window of proper use of 9 months and 11 days (International Airmail half ounce letter).
These modern proper usages are harder even than the Zeppelins and Hawaii issue - at least they are offered at eBay!
The shortest proper usage of a US airmail stamp is the Sc# C117 44¢ New Sweden stamp, it was issued for half ounce International airmail rate on 29th March 1988 but the rates were changed to 45¢ on 2nd April 1988 - a proper usage period of 5 days! I am lucky enough to have this as properly used - have posted it's scan in another topic in this thread.
Here are a few more that I have acquired after our discussions, didn't even cared for them till we started the Canada rate discussions!
All these are addressed to Canada and except for the 55¢ Swans and 45¢ Sunfish are proper uses.
Very nice! However, I have some bad news for you. I actually DO have a Durland catalog in my library and it does not give a date for 1864a or 1864b. I checked that before posting. Perhaps someone else has a source other that the Scott Specialized US Catalog or the Durland Plate Number Catalog that may indicate when these were released or at the very least an EKU. Do anyone have access to that information?
Have to check Postalbulletins.com for this - the search facility there may help. I will try it.
By the way which are the Plate numbers listed for this issue?
my 86 Durland only lists the main number: 40996-1
Thanks for checking David. This means that the tagged varieties were issued after the Durland 1986 publication. Couldn't find anything in the Postal Bulletins.
Scott Specialized lacks many things and this is one of them - is there any other place where such data could be found?
Have checked a few venues for this particular issue (Scott #1864) and have found some new info. First the major number 1864 has the Plate no. 1 while both the varieties 1864a and 1864b has plate no. 2.
1864 - L-perforated 11 - small block tagging - issued on 2nd September 1984
1864a - Bullseye perf. 11.2 - large block tagging - issued 1988 (no specific date)
1864b - Bullseye perf. 11.2 - overall tagged - no specific date maybe after 1864a.
These stamps are from the First Great Americans series which ran from 1980 to 1985. These stamps were issued in panes of 100 with revolving plate markings and later in bullseye sheets with corner plates. Irregular tagging block sizes are known. The overall tagged variety 1864b is extremely condition sensitive with average fine being most common.
At the time this 30¢ stamp was issued it paid International Surface Letter rate to all countries other than Canada and Mexico for a brief while until February 17th 1985. Afterwards it was not an actual postal rate but was used in combination with other stamps to meet various rates - domestic and abroad.
All varieties of #1864 stamps were off sale at the Philatelic Sales Division by August 31st 1991. The new 30¢ Cardinal stamp of 1991 was the replacement.
I was able to find a date of 25th September 1988 for 1864a. Nothing yet for 1864b.
Jacques
September 1988 is interesting. The rate change was April 1988. Maybe 1864a was a new run to handle demand for the new rate to Canada. Interesting.
Sorry the date should be 25th June 1988.
Jacques
25th of June is even MORE interesting!
Remember the rates to Canada:
Feb 17, 1985 - 1 oz letter or card: 22c (same as domestic)
Apr 3, 1988 - 1 oz letter: 30c; Post card: 21c
Feb 3, 1991 - 1 oz letter: 40c; Post card 30c
Jul 9, 1995 - 1/2 oz letter: 46c; 1 oz letter 52c; Post card 40c
1864a could have easily been a new run for the new letter rate April 3, 1988. I can't help but wonder if 1864b first appeared shortly after Fen 3, 1991 when it was obvious they would need more 30c stamps for the post card rate.
All this fact finding has established that Frank C. Laubach stamp Scott #1864a large block tagged Bullseye perforated 11.2 issued on 25th June 1988 was intended to Pay the 1oz. letter rate to Canada.
The rate started from 3rd April 1988 and run through to 2nd February 1991 so this stamp saw a usage period of 19 months and 7 days.
Possibly the 1864b, overall tagged stamp came out after this period till the next 30¢ stamp (Cardinal) was issued but it couldn't have been long in use as the 30¢ Cardinal stamp was issued on 22nd June 1991 to pay the new postcard rate for Canada. If the 1864b Laubach stamp is used on a postcard bearing the date between 02/02/1991 and 06/21/1991 it will be correct usage!
I'd better take out the U/V lamp and check the Laubach stamps on postcard and time the rate usage.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions
It depends on your criteria. Does a stamp, even a minor catalog number, have to be released AFTER the rate change? Does that mean that 1864 is NOT valid for the letter rate and 1864a is NOT valid for the post card rate, even though they could have been purchased on day of use at the post office (assuming the PO had enough of the previous printing on hand they had not used up yet)? It's all a matter of how you define your rules. And that's the really fun part. You get to make the rules!!!
Saleem,
The latest "American Philatelist" has an article about digitization of some of their material. There is a push to digitize the Postal Bulletins led by none other that Tony Wawrukiewicz, one of the authors of the Rates books I mentioned. The other author passed several years ago, so at some point Dr. Wawrukiewicz may allow digitization of that work. APRL is taking suggestions for digitization. I plan to recommend "Printing Postage Stamps by Line Engraving" by James H Baxter, published by APS in 1939. An absolute MUST read!
Lars
The book suggestion is excellent - I will also try to find it . As for the digitization of the AP older issues - the idea is still tentative and when they start doing this they are going to do some selected articles first. Let's hope for the best.
Here's one more postcard I got last week from an auction, US Sc# 3209g on 1998 PC to Germany
fabulous piece, Saleem
Bill, not a week goes by that I don't consult at least one of Tony's books. For Father's Day last year, I received the revised domestic manual (do I have a fabulous wife, or what!!!!); I sold the earlier version here. This literature is so essential and retains its value. I say this for those who were thinking about buying one of these books (they are pricey, due more to their small print runs than to the priceless material they contain) so that one knows one can always get a decent amount of the purchase price back (even Scott retains its value fairly well, as these pages have documented, too).
One of my seal colleagues belongs to the Portland stamp club, of which Tony is a member. My friend is one of the most knowledgeable about tied seals on covers; and Tony, well.... Can you imagine being among such august company? well, yes, I can. I am on a daily basis.
thanks for sharing guys.
David
I'm sure you already know this, David, but for the benefit of others who may not know, Dr. W. is also kind enough to publish updates to the rates so if you buy a reference volume you can access the PDF file for any rate changes after that date. The following link provides access to those updates, an order form for the books, and a link to Errata:
www.spiritone.com/tonywaw
The books (one book for Domestic and one for International) are going for $80 each on eBay (hardbound), but you can order them direct via the link for $55 each hardbound or $44 each softbound!
If you do order the books from the form, don't be a bonehead like me and forget to ask for the author's signature. (Sadly you can't get Mr. Beecher's signature, but Dr. W. may be willing to sign a copy for you).
Lars
"As for the digitization of the AP older issues - the idea is still tentative and when they start doing this they are going to do some selected articles first. Let's hope for the best."
Hi Lars, ever since you confirmed the usages of C28 I've been looking for proper usage on cover and have finally acquired the cover pictured below - this is as close to proper solo usage as it gets!
"C28 has an EKU of Aug 19, 1941. International Airmail rates before 1946 are complicated and you have to look at the tables for each country. 15 cents was the 1/2 oz airmail rate from July 9, 1940 to Jan 14, 1941, but that rate ended before the EKU. 15 cents was also 1/2 ounce airmail for the following:
Trinidad and Tobago Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945"
Saleem,
That is awesome and really freaky. When I mail something, it goes from my local post office to the area post office and then to the Regional Sort Center in Louisville. The area post office, about 25 miles from here, is Paducah - the postmark on your cover!
Lars
Well, well what do you know? You'd have loved to have this cover! Did you notice the corrected APO number? Where was APO 801/804 during 1941?
I don't have any references that would tell me where the various APOs were located.
801 St. Johns, Newfoundland; 804 Fort Simmonds, Jamaica.
However, it looks like a simple correction of a typographical error. I would not make too much of it.
Great cover, Saleem. A real gem.
I have been looking for a few US Airmail rate solo use covers missing from my US Airmail postal history collection and have recently acquired these (pictures below). All of these are hard to find at auction sites or in dealer stocks. Maybe if our members have something lying around they can offer it here at SOR auctions. Here are my new additions:
US Scott #2626c - 50¢ single from the Columbian M.S. of 1992. Although this stamp was issued as part of a set but at the time of circulation it was paying the International airmail ½oz letter rate. I couldn't find any proper usage on cover therefore for the time being this overpaid postcard will do (Canada postcard rate during the period of this postcard mailing was probably 40¢).
US Scott #2938 - 46¢ Ruth Benedict single, paying proper 1oz Canada airmail letter rate. Since there was no other 46¢ stamp in circulation during the time Canada airmail rate was 46¢, this definitive fulfilled the requirement.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
I never considered the 50c Columbian reprint for International LC rate. Good call! I just noticed 2532 Switzerland, 2836 Soccer, and 2840 Rockwell for the letter rate, and 2835 Soccer for the card rate, in '91 to '94.
Very nice to get the Ruth Benedict on an International cover! Equally challenging is the 35c Dennis Chavez on a cover to Mexico. The big haul is to get a 2187 Claire Chennault to Canada in '91 to '94 and to Mexico in '95 to '98!
Thanks for sharing!
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Hi Lars,
The Ruth Benedict info I got from your Rate Page of Airmail Album. As for 2187 Claire Chennault and Dennis Chavez - I will keep my eyes open for them. Also got the Ruth Benedict on a postcard to Canada (picture below).
It is really difficult to find covers bearing single Mexico rate stamp. Canada and Mexico rates are somewhat a jumble for the years 1976-2000.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem: Nice covers! At first glance, I did not recognize ther 50c Columbian, as the modern isssue.I thought to myself: Wow! someone used a 50c Columbian as postage in the 21st. Century! Ted.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
If that was the original Columbian I'd have boasted instead of posted
Here are others that were added to my US International airmail rate collection recently.
Scott #3140a on cover to Canada - overpaid but still a nice acquisition solo used on cover.
Scott # C138 solo proper use on cover to Canada, these are difficult to find
Scott # C138a (the different perforation) solo proper use on cover to Canada, these are also difficult to find. Now the remaining one with the 2005 year date is what I'm looking for
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem, I got the info for rates from a comprehensive book by Anthony S. Wawrukiewicz and Henry W. Beecher - U.S. International Postal Rates, 1872-1996 - plus the "Addenda and Erratica" that can be found online. The companion U.S. Domestic Postal Rates 1872-1999 is also useful to see if there WAS a common domestic need for a particular denomination. I have them in my library if you need something specific looked up, but you may want to secure your own copy for more extensive research. The APS Library may have a copy available for loan. It's a VERY useful resource!
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
I'm a bit confused by the 3140a. You say it's overpaid, but I think you mean it's not contemporary. When 3140a was issued (1997), 60c was the International Letter rate (Canada and Mexico were cheaper), but when this was postmarked (2004), 60c was the letter rate to Canada (and Mexico). I think it's the correct postage amount.
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Appreciate your correction on the Canada rate for the 3140a - I meant to say that I am looking for a proper use during the rate period. You are right the stamp on cover is paying proper postage but when the stamp was in circulation it was intended for half ounce international airmail which lasted from 9th July 1995 to 6th January 2001.
I will gladly take on your offer of help with rates from the two books you mentioned, earlier I got some help from Steve Davis on some international rates. What I would like to know is the rate/destination/time period for the 15¢ Transport Plane issue Sc. #C28.
The info I have says that this was issued for Central America and some countries of the Caribbean ½oz. letter rate fro the period (unspecific) starting 1941 till 30th September 1946. Can you please confirm or correct this?
The other help is with Canada 1oz/½oz letter rates and postcard rates of the period when domestic airmail stamps were discontinued (1975) till the specific Canada rate stamps came out (C133 I believe). There is no hurry - just look it up whenever you have time.
And....thanks for the tip on the book available with APS, there is a slight problem
I live in India! It's only help from friends that has got me this far in PH collection
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
C28 has an EKU of Aug 19, 1941. International Airmail rates before 1946 are complicated and you have to look at the tables for each country. 15 cents was the 1/2 oz airmail rate from July 9, 1940 to Jan 14, 1941, but that rate ended before the EKU. 15 cents was also 1/2 ounce airmail for the following:
Columbia Dec 18, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Costa Rica Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Ecuador Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Fanning and Washington Islands Jan 15, 1945 to Sept 30, 1946
French Guiana Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Guadeloupe Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Guyana Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Honduras May 10, 1929 to Nov 30, 1937 (too early for this stamp)
Leeward Islands Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Martinique Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Panama Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Peru Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Pitcairn Islands 1939 to ???
Suriname Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Trinidad and Tobago Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Venezuela Apr 1, 1945 to Oct 31, 1946
Windward Islands Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945
Effective Nov 1, 1946, 15 cents was the International Airmail rate to Europe, Turkey, Greenland and Mediterranean Africa. If you want a use that was valid during the EKU, you are looking for Costa Rica, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Panama, Trinidad and Tobago, Windward Islands or possible Pitcairn Islands.
All dates are inclusive, so if I put Oct 31, 1946 that means a new rate was effective Nov 1, 1946. Windward Islands are: Grenada, St. Lucia and St. Vincent, with Dominica added Jan 1, 1940.
This takes a lot of digging so I'll address your other questions later.
Hope this helps!
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
The rates to Canada are interesting. Postal Bulletin 21059 (Sep 25, 1975) said that letters paid at the Airmail rate and the First Class rate to Canada would be treated exactly the same. An airmail rate of 17c for the first ounce (letter or card) was published pending approval by the Postal Rate Commission, but those rates were useless. It depends on your point of view whether it would be an overpayment or not. PB 21110 (Apr 27, 1977) officially removed the airmail classification from domestic mail and mail to Canada.
Surface and airmail letter and postcard rates to Canada and Mexico were the same as domestic rates until Feb 17, 1985, so there was no need for a special rate stamp to be issued. Here are the rates for Canada from Feb 17, 1985 until you can pick it up from the chart in my Airmail album: (I repeated the 1991 and 1995 listings to include the post card rate and 1 oz 1995 letter rate)
Feb 17, 1985 - 1 oz letter or card: 22c (same as domestic)
Apr 3, 1988 - 1 oz letter: 30c; Post card: 21c
Feb 3, 1991 - 1 oz letter: 40c; Post card 30c
Jul 9, 1995 - 1/2 oz letter: 46c; 1 oz letter 52c; Post card 40c
The rest you can get from my album.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Excellent help Lars! These two Rate areas have been confusing me a lot and you have explained both in a great way. Really appreciate your taking time-off for this rate-check.
Have been looking for a more proper use of the C28 since long time and like many other South American destination usages this one is really hard to find. The earliest proper use I have is mailed from Honolulu, Hawaii to San Francisco, California postmarked 17th January 1945 but this was not the destination(rate) this stamp was issued for.
As for the Canada (confusing) rate period I will be searching for solo proper use on cover for the US domestic rate postage on covers to Canada starting Feb. 1985 to March 1988, as also covers bearing 30¢, 40¢ and 52¢ for later periods. Though I have a bunch of covers but solo proper uses is what I am looking for - for the above Canada rates there are only definitive that fulfill the requirement.
Thanks for the great help, really appreciate it.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Here are three more I acquired - hard to find these solo used:
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
I couldn't find a single 30c stamp that was issued any time around the April 1988 rate change to Canada. That seems odd. Am I missing something?
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
We are looking for 1oz letter rate - couldn't it have been a half ounce rate? The 30¢ Laubach issued in 1984 was still under circulation at that time and probably the USPS thought that it will fulfill the purpose. The 30¢ Cardinal was issued in 1991 which suits the bill for the postcard rate to Canada starting 1991.
Checked my covers stock and found three conforming with the rates you mentioned:
1- 22¢ Keep in Touch solo to Canada postmarked 1st February 1988
2- 30¢ Laubach solo to Canada postmarked 5th March 1990
3- 29¢ Greetings (Toy Engine) + 6¢ Lippman + 5¢ Munoz - total 40¢ on cover to Canada postmarked 8th December 1992 (I am looking for a solo 40¢ for this period)
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem
Is this correct for the 40cent single usage to Canada your looking for?
Are there other "modern" rates to Canada that your still looking for?
Rick
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
I completely forgot about the 40¢ Soccer stamp to Canada - I do have this one mailed from Bay Court, Florida to Ontario, Canada postmarked 21st February 1995. There are still a few that I am looking for, here are they with the time period listed and the probable stamp used solo:-
3rd April 1988 to 2nd February 1991 - 21¢ stamp on postcard to Canada (Chester Carlson definitive)
3rd February 1991 to 8th July 1995 - 30¢ stamp on postcard (30¢ Cardinal definitive)
9th July 1995 to 9th January 1999 - 52¢ stamp on cover (1 oz rate) (Hubert Humphrey definitive)
9th July 1995 to 9th January 1999 - 40¢ stamp on postcard (40¢ Chennault or 40¢ Soccer)
More recent ones:
Scott #3332 - 45¢ UPU used solo on postcard to Canada
Scott #4608-4612 - the 85¢ Eagles - used as singles on covers to Canada
Scott # C138b - Acadia National Park dated 2005 on cover to Canada
Scott #C149 - Glacier National Park - used solo on cover and also on postcard to Canada
There are others more desperately needed mostly on covers to South America and Mexico - if you can help me with any I can post the want list here.
Thanks for your interest in this discussion and reminding me of the 40¢ Soccer cover that I have.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Sorry for the delay in responding, I couldn't get onto the website for a couple of hours.
Taking a quick look I was able to find four of the five eagles and also a C149. For the sake of just doing one scan I overlapped the envelopes but they are complete envelopes and all but one are #10 size.
I don't get much in the way of postcards although its possible I might have some from the 90's. I'll have to do some digging.
Living in Canada that's pretty much what I have access to. Sorry, as of now I really haven't seen anything for S. America or Mexico but I will keep an eye out for you.
Rick
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Dear Rick,
Let's continue off-board, I will send you an e-mail.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
"We are looking for 1oz letter rate - couldn't it have been a half ounce rate? "
"
The 30¢ Laubach issued in 1984 was still under circulation at that time and probably the USPS thought that it will fulfill the purpose"
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem, what are you going to do about the 55c Submarine stamp? There was a 33c (domestic letter), a 55c (international card), 60c (international letter) and a $3.20 (domestic Priority Mail). It's the remaining stamp included in the booklet pane that raises a question. The other stamp is 22c. The domestic post card rate was 20c. 22c was the extra ounce rate. That means the 55c could ALSO be intended for the two ounce domestic rate. It would have been cleaner if they issued the low value at the 20c card rate. I still call the 55c Submarine as intended for Int'l card rate, but I can see someone else making a different call. Keep us posted on your progress!
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Couldn't find the date of issue of both the later Laubach stamps, I think that the Plate Number catalog could have these issue dates, if someone has this catalog (Durland) can they please check the dates for 1864a and 1864b
That 55¢ and 60¢ Submarine stamps on PC and Cover will remain a blank space till someone comes up with them in auction someplace. You are right this was intended for International Postcard rate for the very short period starting 27th March 2000(issue date) till 6th January 2001. Similarly the 60¢ Submarine has a very short window of proper use of 9 months and 11 days (International Airmail half ounce letter).
These modern proper usages are harder even than the Zeppelins and Hawaii issue - at least they are offered at eBay!
The shortest proper usage of a US airmail stamp is the Sc# C117 44¢ New Sweden stamp, it was issued for half ounce International airmail rate on 29th March 1988 but the rates were changed to 45¢ on 2nd April 1988 - a proper usage period of 5 days! I am lucky enough to have this as properly used - have posted it's scan in another topic in this thread.
Here are a few more that I have acquired after our discussions, didn't even cared for them till we started the Canada rate discussions!
All these are addressed to Canada and except for the 55¢ Swans and 45¢ Sunfish are proper uses.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Very nice! However, I have some bad news for you. I actually DO have a Durland catalog in my library and it does not give a date for 1864a or 1864b. I checked that before posting. Perhaps someone else has a source other that the Scott Specialized US Catalog or the Durland Plate Number Catalog that may indicate when these were released or at the very least an EKU. Do anyone have access to that information?
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Have to check Postalbulletins.com for this - the search facility there may help. I will try it.
By the way which are the Plate numbers listed for this issue?
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
my 86 Durland only lists the main number: 40996-1
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Thanks for checking David. This means that the tagged varieties were issued after the Durland 1986 publication. Couldn't find anything in the Postal Bulletins.
Scott Specialized lacks many things and this is one of them - is there any other place where such data could be found?
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Have checked a few venues for this particular issue (Scott #1864) and have found some new info. First the major number 1864 has the Plate no. 1 while both the varieties 1864a and 1864b has plate no. 2.
1864 - L-perforated 11 - small block tagging - issued on 2nd September 1984
1864a - Bullseye perf. 11.2 - large block tagging - issued 1988 (no specific date)
1864b - Bullseye perf. 11.2 - overall tagged - no specific date maybe after 1864a.
These stamps are from the First Great Americans series which ran from 1980 to 1985. These stamps were issued in panes of 100 with revolving plate markings and later in bullseye sheets with corner plates. Irregular tagging block sizes are known. The overall tagged variety 1864b is extremely condition sensitive with average fine being most common.
At the time this 30¢ stamp was issued it paid International Surface Letter rate to all countries other than Canada and Mexico for a brief while until February 17th 1985. Afterwards it was not an actual postal rate but was used in combination with other stamps to meet various rates - domestic and abroad.
All varieties of #1864 stamps were off sale at the Philatelic Sales Division by August 31st 1991. The new 30¢ Cardinal stamp of 1991 was the replacement.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
I was able to find a date of 25th September 1988 for 1864a. Nothing yet for 1864b.
Jacques
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
September 1988 is interesting. The rate change was April 1988. Maybe 1864a was a new run to handle demand for the new rate to Canada. Interesting.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Sorry the date should be 25th June 1988.
Jacques
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
25th of June is even MORE interesting!
Remember the rates to Canada:
Feb 17, 1985 - 1 oz letter or card: 22c (same as domestic)
Apr 3, 1988 - 1 oz letter: 30c; Post card: 21c
Feb 3, 1991 - 1 oz letter: 40c; Post card 30c
Jul 9, 1995 - 1/2 oz letter: 46c; 1 oz letter 52c; Post card 40c
1864a could have easily been a new run for the new letter rate April 3, 1988. I can't help but wonder if 1864b first appeared shortly after Fen 3, 1991 when it was obvious they would need more 30c stamps for the post card rate.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
All this fact finding has established that Frank C. Laubach stamp Scott #1864a large block tagged Bullseye perforated 11.2 issued on 25th June 1988 was intended to Pay the 1oz. letter rate to Canada.
The rate started from 3rd April 1988 and run through to 2nd February 1991 so this stamp saw a usage period of 19 months and 7 days.
Possibly the 1864b, overall tagged stamp came out after this period till the next 30¢ stamp (Cardinal) was issued but it couldn't have been long in use as the 30¢ Cardinal stamp was issued on 22nd June 1991 to pay the new postcard rate for Canada. If the 1864b Laubach stamp is used on a postcard bearing the date between 02/02/1991 and 06/21/1991 it will be correct usage!
I'd better take out the U/V lamp and check the Laubach stamps on postcard and time the rate usage.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
It depends on your criteria. Does a stamp, even a minor catalog number, have to be released AFTER the rate change? Does that mean that 1864 is NOT valid for the letter rate and 1864a is NOT valid for the post card rate, even though they could have been purchased on day of use at the post office (assuming the PO had enough of the previous printing on hand they had not used up yet)? It's all a matter of how you define your rules. And that's the really fun part. You get to make the rules!!!
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
The latest "American Philatelist" has an article about digitization of some of their material. There is a push to digitize the Postal Bulletins led by none other that Tony Wawrukiewicz, one of the authors of the Rates books I mentioned. The other author passed several years ago, so at some point Dr. Wawrukiewicz may allow digitization of that work. APRL is taking suggestions for digitization. I plan to recommend "Printing Postage Stamps by Line Engraving" by James H Baxter, published by APS in 1939. An absolute MUST read!
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
The book suggestion is excellent - I will also try to find it . As for the digitization of the AP older issues - the idea is still tentative and when they start doing this they are going to do some selected articles first. Let's hope for the best.
Here's one more postcard I got last week from an auction, US Sc# 3209g on 1998 PC to Germany
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
fabulous piece, Saleem
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Bill, not a week goes by that I don't consult at least one of Tony's books. For Father's Day last year, I received the revised domestic manual (do I have a fabulous wife, or what!!!!); I sold the earlier version here. This literature is so essential and retains its value. I say this for those who were thinking about buying one of these books (they are pricey, due more to their small print runs than to the priceless material they contain) so that one knows one can always get a decent amount of the purchase price back (even Scott retains its value fairly well, as these pages have documented, too).
One of my seal colleagues belongs to the Portland stamp club, of which Tony is a member. My friend is one of the most knowledgeable about tied seals on covers; and Tony, well.... Can you imagine being among such august company? well, yes, I can. I am on a daily basis.
thanks for sharing guys.
David
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
I'm sure you already know this, David, but for the benefit of others who may not know, Dr. W. is also kind enough to publish updates to the rates so if you buy a reference volume you can access the PDF file for any rate changes after that date. The following link provides access to those updates, an order form for the books, and a link to Errata:
www.spiritone.com/tonywaw
The books (one book for Domestic and one for International) are going for $80 each on eBay (hardbound), but you can order them direct via the link for $55 each hardbound or $44 each softbound!
If you do order the books from the form, don't be a bonehead like me and forget to ask for the author's signature. (Sadly you can't get Mr. Beecher's signature, but Dr. W. may be willing to sign a copy for you).
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
"As for the digitization of the AP older issues - the idea is still tentative and when they start doing this they are going to do some selected articles first. Let's hope for the best."
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Hi Lars, ever since you confirmed the usages of C28 I've been looking for proper usage on cover and have finally acquired the cover pictured below - this is as close to proper solo usage as it gets!
"C28 has an EKU of Aug 19, 1941. International Airmail rates before 1946 are complicated and you have to look at the tables for each country. 15 cents was the 1/2 oz airmail rate from July 9, 1940 to Jan 14, 1941, but that rate ended before the EKU. 15 cents was also 1/2 ounce airmail for the following:
Trinidad and Tobago Dec 1, 1937 to Mar 31, 1945"
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Saleem,
That is awesome and really freaky. When I mail something, it goes from my local post office to the area post office and then to the Regional Sort Center in Louisville. The area post office, about 25 miles from here, is Paducah - the postmark on your cover!
Lars
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
Well, well what do you know? You'd have loved to have this cover! Did you notice the corrected APO number? Where was APO 801/804 during 1941?
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
I don't have any references that would tell me where the various APOs were located.
re: Got a few elusive US airmail rate covers.
801 St. Johns, Newfoundland; 804 Fort Simmonds, Jamaica.
However, it looks like a simple correction of a typographical error. I would not make too much of it.
Great cover, Saleem. A real gem.