07:46:27am
This is a very friendly place to be. Also, do not worry about the fees, there are none. Poke around, enjoy and feel free to jump in wherever it feels comfortable to do so.
Bobby Barnhart
Stamporama Board Moderator
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Welcome Michael!
This site seams really positive with a lot of good attributes -only been here a week my self.
Ross
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Welcome aboard Michael. You will recognize a lot of people over here.
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Hi Michael. The big difference with Stamporama compared to most of the other sites is that this is a true club. Buying, selling, trading, swapping (not wives or husbands), sharing and talking to each other is all on that level. It is usually low-keyed and relaxing to hang around here. I'm not going to say that things don't get heated now and then, but those now and thens aren't like you've seen elsewhere.
There are a large number of members here who reside outside the US, and everyone who wants to join here goes through a little review. I have been here several years, and the integrity of the members here is very high. To my knowledge there has only been one or two tossed out of here for fraud in the auction selling area.
My best advice to you and all the other newcomers is to sit back, relax and enjoy the warm confines of the club. You're among 2,000 philatelic friends now.
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10:24:36am
Welcome Michael!I'm sure you will find SOR to be everything you hoped and more!
I want to let you and everyone else reading this email know that I am a DB moderator. If anyone ever has any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me. If I don't have an answer immediately for you, I will be sure to find the answer or send you to the appropriate person. All the moderators are here to help!
Enjoy yourself spending time on the site and post when you're ready!
Lisa
DB Moderator
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Hi Michael! Yes, seems a lot of Bidstarters have moved over! Glad you made it over the "wall"! 
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03:27:28pm
Welcome to our Refugee Camp - I'm glad to welcome all the new members. While it may feel like a Refugee Camp for the first few days or weeks, I'm sure you will all fit in quite nicely and find yourself at HOME very quickly.
As many others have mentioned, one of the biggest differences is that we are a stamp club - trades and auctions are just an addition to our club just like you would see in a physical club.
Again - I welcome all of you!
Kelly
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Welcome, Michael-non-numbers!
You will like it here -- there are lots of smilies to disgust you!
k
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I'm the guy who gave you a hard time at first, but several members recommended you so I can always blame them if you turn out to be a Liberal "Democrat".......Welcome aboard P
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04:49:16pm
Actually I think the most used emoticon in the whole forum should be and would be .....
(It wasn't me!)
Kelly
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Welcome Michael.
Good to see another Turkey specialist. Kim, What is the Turkey emotion?
Just back from WestPex, and almost bid on a Turkey specialized collection...but then, what to do with the multiple copies? If I had known you were here...
This place is really feeling like home. Hope the odd Aussies make it through censorship...lol
rrr...
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rrr, do you mean this one?
Or this one?
Or this one?
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06:09:25pm
Yeah, Kim, you're gonna fit right in this loony bin! (Now where is Chief Bromden and that fog machine?)
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I see that some of the newcomers from the other site have set up seller accounts here. They were selling over there, so buyers here should get themselves prepared to see a bigger variety of stamps listed for sale here. Of course if I would get off my duff I could do that here too...
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10:00:14pm
Yup Michael - so get crackin'! LOL
Kelly
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==>> one k
I like this one
, Is there a voice over feature?
How did you get it to post? (did you store the image and then copy it?) clearly I can't copy/paste it..or I don't know how. I don't see it in my choices at the bottom, so it must be a one k special! Also, when I try to place an emotion in the text, it seems to ignore my wishes and post where it has decided it is appropriate? I hear this voice over saying...we know where it would look better! Anyone experience this? (I am on the latest Chrome version)
On a separate subject, is there a way to have the last 30 postings option, or for that matter last day or last week postings choices as well, to post by date in chronological order...starting with the most recent post, rather than as currently set up? Or just to provide this sorting option in addition, as well?
rrr...
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-04-29 03:53:19)
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3r
Try this process. It may be a long way, but it is how I do it:
- Copy the URL and paste it in the URL box of your browser
- press ENTER
- the image should appear
- place your cursor on the image and right click on it
- a pop-up should appear
- click on SAVE IMAGE AS
- press ENTER
- you should find the file of the image (emoticon) on your desk top to do with as you please
- click on it and it should appear
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I thought I'd better show you that the steps I listed work. I merely uploaded the image file from my desktop into the message just like any other image file.
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Good to see you, md. I'd be wary of this place, if I were you. As Groucho said, I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.
Tedski
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"I can't copy/paste it..or I don't know how."
I've never tried directly pasting an image. I'm pretty sure you can't do that. Just upload the image, as per Michael##### instructions/example; I assume an image link to another hosting site would also work, but I haven't tried that.
"Also, when I try to place an emotion in the text, it seems to ignore my wishes and post where it has decided it is appropriate?"
Yeah, I've run into that problem frequently. Not sure what is causing it. I haven't reported it as bug because the problem is intermittent and I'm not sure when/why it happens. When it does happen, the smiley seems to always want to appear in the same wrong spot.
I end up having to cut the smiley code and pasting it into the correct spot. I'm using FF19. Maybe Michael-no# has hacked into the system in his bid to rid the world of smileys?
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Hello Michael
Quote: ""Mostly I've been a US collector, but expanded into Turkey a few years ago. (Figured I should??!) Also general worldwide.""
Too many Michaels, so I will have to post your private emotion when writing to you.
How's the Turkish collection coming along. Interested in trading some... I guess this is encouraged here!
rrr....
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Hi guys. I wondered where you were! And you thought you got away from me, eh?
Cheers,
Peter
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Hi Peter
Welcome here.
What! no familiar Avatar?
rrr...
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Bonjour Rrrrrr! New avatar; can't find the old penny black with Coco's face imposed.
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This avatar will do fine, Peter. A suggestion though. Split your www...etc address into two lines, as it crowds the text space, as it is now (a software enhancement suggestion to SOR?)
rrr...
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Thanks Ralph. I abbreviated it with the user ID link.
In response to the original post about bidStart, I too left the forum not so much for the primitive features now (and Kim is right, they are improving things there, as far as my lurking can see; I won't post there again), but how this was done and how members' sentiments are not being considered in the process. As far as I can tell, the older posts (pre-VSC entry) still have our handles and not our names. One thing I dread over there is the real possibility that the store interface will change to something they deem "new and improved" (how I hate that phrase!). If that happens, I will close my store and dispose of my collections through a larger auction site or something similar.
Anyway, good to be here!
Cheers,
Peter
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Peter,
Welcome aboard again. I feel the same and my store will remain open for the time being. And of course all transaction will be honored. Now Here we can trade!!!!!!!!
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Welcome Coco!!!
Glad you could bring your human, Peter, with you!
k
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There are two ways that you can sell here:
- Auction - but do not post any advertisements on what you personally have in the auctions.
- Post a specific item that you want to sell directly on the Buy, Swap and Trade Board. There you can post what you have.
Don't be afraid to make a post, or where to put it. There are several moderators here, and they'll be happy to help you get your post to the right place.
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"New avatar; can't find the old penny black with Coco's face imposed."
How about a "Doggy Head" stamp?
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Cool, and the right color for Lady Coco.
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I once tried a Cocos Islands stamp but it didn't work as well.
If you send me that image, I'll adopt it for Coco! Thanks Tedski.
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Coco,
Just click on the image, hold the left mouse button down, and drag it to your desktop.
Regards ... Tim
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08:33:46pm
Welcome Peter and Coco! I'm thrilled to have another dog lover here
If you right click on the image of the stamp and select "Save image as" you should be able to save the image to your desktop. Then you can go to your edit your membership profile and upload the image as your avatar.
Hope that helps!
Lisa
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08:34:20pm
Or do what Tim said.
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Welcome to all the new members--I've been away a bit & hadn't realized that the new members I was seeing were all from BidStart. For several years now, SOR & VSC had been my haunts--maybe bought at BidStart (didn't even KNOW there was a forum...) and viewed Stamp Community Family. As has been stated, the current "state of affairs" at BidStart and Delphi "The Stamp Forum" has really been off-putting. I'll wait & see what happens at Delphi, but unless things change really drastically, I will not be a regular part of BidStart. SOR has generally been the most convivial, and sometimes most helpful (to those looking for help) of all the stamp forums I have visited on a regular basis. I'm an infrequent poster, read daily (well, most of the time) and enjoy the community.
Roger
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Tim and Lisa, thanks for the tip on saving the image!
Lisa, check out my pictures of Coco dog in the dog post here.
Cheers,
Peter
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05:35:10pm
I did check out Coco. She's beautiful!
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05:56:42pm
I have a question for the BS members (or previous BS members). I had bookmarked two threads of interest from the old forum. When I go to those bookmarked URLs, they are still there. Why are they still active? Is the old forum hiding somewhere?
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The old SW Forum is no unfortunately longer directly accessible through the BS portal. You have to go through the new BS software to access it.
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Lisa, the old posts on bidStart and the old posts on VSB will all be retained; for the latter, they need to get permission from the particular members as to what they will allow to be posted to the new forum (at least that is what I understand from reading the new posts). However, the "pre-change over" bidStart posts are going to be a part of the new forum format; they currently retain the handles instead of names (for example, mine are posted as Cocollectibles, and not Peter LastName) but who knows if that will change at some point too.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Peter
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"but who knows if that will change at some point too."
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Peter,
I sent you an email with what I had for your old avatars. Remember I made my local post stamps after the last HeartWalk I did?
Unfortunately, they are only small pics
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"Peter,
I sent you an email with what I had for your old avatars. Remember I made my local post stamps after the last HeartWalk I did?
Unfortunately, they are only small pics
"
Hi Doug. Did you send it to my cocollectibles email? I'll get it when I get back to Atlanta in a couple of days. Thanks for that. I kinda like the new petulant Coco dog avatar though; I will get that look for days upon my return (especially as I've petted several dogs here!).
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If this is not the BidStart Refugee Camp, it most certainly is the StampOffers/Wensy Refugee Camp.
David
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Well, curiosity got the better of me, and I trolled into the BS and VSC forums to see what was going on. I won't report, as you can do it yourself, but one comment made me smile as it reflected very much some of my feelings about the "Lloydblog" at BS.
I copied (sorry forgot to note the source, but it was on VSC):
"" 48784.20 in reply to 48784.15
Lloyd is a radio guy. Radio people regard silence as a fate worse than death, so they never permit "dead" time to occur. Lloyd applies the same habit to his on-line activity. He never lets time go by without seeing that new material is always present, even if he has to contrive it.
I would like to believe we have no need for that kind of stimulation now that Lloyd has left us. If you have something worth sharing, post it. If not, silence is golden.""
Amusing
rrr...
PS: LOL..no easy comment about MY remaining silent, please..
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I think there were only two or three posts over at BS Forum today.
I sold three stamps too.
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I posted all three, I think! Just helping some people out.
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It's really unfortunate, the current state of things there.
Good of you to help others out, Doug!
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I am running a 3 day only, 50% off sale, on my B/S store.I am just curious if I will be able to sell anything. I only have about 600 lots so I am not expecting a miracle, but do think, that I should be able to sell some stamps.My regular prices are competivie, so at half off, they should tempt some people.
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I suppose I am fearfully naive, but I had always heard that stamp collectors were all gentlemen (and gentlewomen). I have witnessed the exact opposite, both in local stamp clubs, in APS (over the last decade at least) and now the kerfluffle that has ensued with SG buying bS, bringing Lloyd & VSC from Delphi over to bS & the subsequent reinvention of the Stamp Collecting Forum on Delphi, and finally the "divorce" between Lloyd and bS. I read all of this, and generally keep my head low (I really do not like confrontation...), with the occasional post. I have very much appreciated SOR because the level of animus is quite low (with the exception of the Steamroom now and then...). I learn much (by the time I'm ready to post a helpful comment, at least 2 others have said the same thing--and that's quite OK, BTW) and enjoy the group. I have personally moved in and out of forums & am now completely off bS--the real name thing did it for me.
Roger
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Roger,
I think the lack of loyalty from the BS staff at the time of merger really disappointed me. They truly forgot the members that got them to that point. I still maintain a store at BS for the time being. Although I look at the forum a couple of time I will not post or participate in any discussion there. I have said this before The folks here at SOR have made me feel welcome and very comfortable. I do not see myself as a refugee but blessed to found such a great place.
Ross
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I agree with both of you and I do as Ross does, and lurk on that forum. Sometimes I feel as though I were witnessing a traffic accident and I should just move on quickly but you can't help but glare at the resultant gore and mess. I feel bad for newbies who post asking for help and get very little back (if it were not for Doug and Michael numbers, they would get nothing back). In the past, the collegial atmosphere was such that even relative newbies flocked to offer advice in good spirit, but now ...
Mark posted a "give me suggestions on how to bring the forum back to life" post and it failed miserably. When told to bring it back to what it was, these well intentioned posters were met with "what EXACTLY do you want" replies, which were ignored when they got specific. It then deteriorated into a series of questions and answers. Evidently, according to the Delphi forum and other sites who monitored that thread, posts were deleted and edited by admin too.
The good old days are gone folks; may the old forum and SW/bS community rest in peace. We'll see what happens to the selling and buying sections next, and let SG make it's own business decision as to the merits of this merger.
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Ross, i love it that you and many others are looking forward and considering us home rather than a way stop on the diaspora; Roger, we are mostly nicer than average, but, unfortunately, we are people and subject to all the illnesses we visit upon the world and each other. We have our thieves, egomaniacs, forgetful geese, and cranks. We probably just have less of them. And we do a good job of modelling good behavior and little tolerance for bullies and cranks.
David
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I just witnessed a back-and-forth on the BS forum that seemed a bit over the top and getting into name-calling, so I wanted to (as admin) lock down the thread and leave it where it lies, for I couldn't see it of any benefit for that thread to continue. But apparently, my admin rights have been taken away without even being notified and now I can't do a thing about it. Having gotten a new job that has made me work a lot more (and spend less time stamping), I have not posted much of anything other than some helpful hints and answering of questions as I have the time. I have not worn my thoughts and feeling on my sleeve as others have. Yet, I guess something was enough to get me booted as an admin over there anyways. Whatever....
Well, they can HAVE IT. Here it comes! My mini-tirade:
I faaart in their general direction. Their mothers were hamsters, and their fathers smelt of eldeberries!
Well there. I feel better now.
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WELCOME to the FAMILY MICHAEL !
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Having visited both of the other sites this morning I can say that both are in complete disarray. The BS forum there a little tong rattling about how boring things are without Lloyd(almost zero participation from members now) but over at Delphi its turning toxic on several levels. The 'Holy Crap" thread is just that crap and the "What role should Llody Play" is on a negative down turn.
Through all of this turmoil I think many folks have lost sight of the purpose of these site's which in truth is a shame as both at some point provided a positive influence on our hobby. It's not about grandstanding or loyalties to an individual or entity but having fun and enjoying stamp collecting.
Change is and almost certainly always will be difficult. I think that here at SOR a lesson has been learned that discussion on change can be civil even when negative as long as we don't loose sight of our hobby.
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And the traffic accident gore spreads across the broadband highway ...
Welcome Doug; you deserved more respect and at least acknowledgement for the effort you made to try to keep that forum above water.
Aloha,
Peter
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Doug, you may have missed it, but Mark posted that it was determined to be inappropriate for non-BS or SG employees to act as moderators on a commercial web site.
I lost all my rights as well.
As for the problems at the Delphi Forum...well, now you know why the BS Forums had so many problems when the two were merged.
Doug, I saw the post you were referring to. Mark deleted it.
About 3,000 items have been taken down from my store. MEG has been working quicker than I, because my recent work hours are not conducive to me working on stamps. He has returned to SOR, and said that he is quite pleased over the results of his items that had been sitting dormant on BS selling over here with multiple bids too.
Just for the record:
I am michael78651, he is michael78664.
He plans to have more items up in the auctions here than Grant does.
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I think I helped Ted pare down his store, by going on a shopping spree. Hey, 50% off is my trigger! Good stuff Ted... now bring it here Ted!
rrr....
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"it was determined to be inappropriate for non-BS or SG employees to act as moderators on a commercial web site."
You have to admit, they are pretty consistent about not telling anybody until after the fact.
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I have stayed with the Delphi forum, but it is like watching a train wreck--you can't look away. I took a brief hiatus from there, but continue to read. In particular, I participate in the threads related to APS and the By-Laws change/CEO disaster. Another train wreck. As has been said, we're all people, with all the faults common to people. At least the hotter threads are in the Steamroom, and if you don't want to know, don't go there. Now, I just got this lot of early stamps of Belgium to sort and categorize....
Roger
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11:22:09pm
" .... but having fun and enjoying stamp collecting. ...."
That's what I said last week.
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"posters were met with "what EXACTLY do you want" replies,"
Yeah, Mark's being disingenuous, now. People have been telling him EXACTLY what they want since the day changes were made.
Tedski
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"I faaart in their general direction. Their mothers were hamsters, and their fathers smelt of eldeberries!"
. . . those tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms. Empty-headed animal food trough water.
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"I think I helped Ted pare down his store, by going on a shopping spree. "
I better check my shopping cart and see what you copped from me before I could check out.
Tedski
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"APS and the By-Laws change/CEO disaster"
might you fill me in on this.
David
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David,
I was certainly wondering why there was no discussion here about these important changes to the structure of the APS that have been discussed for weeks (months now?) everywhere else in the philatelic community. Of course, it will be all after the fact now. Nevertheless, because it is still an important topic, I took the liberty to open a new thread for this discussion as it does not really fit here.
Arno
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I must say, I'm mildly amused by the BS'ers that wander back "over there" for the BS and report that things are still messed up. I understand sellers with stores being concerned, but when I told Mark "I'm done, delete my profile," I meant it. SOR is my new home. I have no more concern about what happens at BS than I do about a previous girlfriend's dating habits.
Can we all sing a verse from Bryan Adams:
"Take me back, won't you ..."
My response is on the unedited live version.
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The ones drifting back are still selling on BS. Takes time to get thousands of stamps down from there. I just had my largest one-buyer purchase, almost $800. I am concerned about this, however, as this is a buyer with 0 feedback.
I have already had 2 non-payers this month.
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Well, here's where everyone's gone.
-Les
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Welcome Les. You found the BS refugee camp!
rrr...
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"The ones drifting back are still selling on BS. Takes time to get thousands of stamps down from there. I just had my largest one-buyer purchase, almost $800. I am concerned about this, however, as this is a buyer with 0 feedback.
I have already had 2 non-payers this month. "
Turned out to be non-payer #3 for the month June). Working on non-payer #1 for July. Don't know what's going on over there with buyers not wanting to pay. Used to be tighter controls. Have never been stuck that many times in one month.
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RE Non-Payers....seems to be a problem on other auction sites also.. Esp. Wensy
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Les, welcome! We've been expecting you (and many others!). Good folks here, and a very good atmosphere.
Cheers,
Peter
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12:08:39pm
I assume that those with non-payer problems have the person's name and should the problem customer try to join here let the mods know of the problem.
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Les,
Welcome this great site with a great group of folks.
Ross
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Thank you all for the wonderful welcome! It's good to see many familiar faces. I'm looking forward to digging around here and getting to know some new folks as well.
-Les
Filling Spaces
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Welcome Les
This is a very nice friendly site
Lee
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Good to see you, Les.
Tedski
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Well this is interesting: I got this email a few minutes ago. Aside from a personal salutation (omitted here), it is a generic call for comments about the forum; does it mean bidStart's forum is failing under this new management and system?
"My name is Dan and I am the bidStart Community Manager. I wanted to take a moment to introduce myself and speak with you openly about the community. The team here at bidStart are committed to making bidStart the collectibles marketplace and I am making it my personal goal to contact each and every user, both past and present, for their feedback.
Our goal is to ignite our community and bring everyone together in a profitable and enjoyable fashion. Over the last year, bidStart has experienced many changes, including to the bidStart forums. These changes have allowed us to analyse and track our user's activity and the discussions within our forums. Using this data I am able to see the direct correlation between our forums and website: busy forums create a busier site.
Having been a member of our Customer Support team I have seen the benefits of community engagement for the ultimate success of both the individual and the site as a whole. bidStart, as with any eCommerce platform, relies on an active community inside and outside of the site. Each mention and discussion grows our visibility exponentially and will bring more sellers and thus more buyers to bidStart.
Our top sellers and regular contributors use some clever tools which, I believe, highlight the efficacy of community engagement.
1. Use the "Stamps I am selling" category within the forum to promote your store (Even if it's only one item every two days) and keep it familiar to other users.
2. Regularly communicate with your community via newsletters (There is about a 25% improvement in sales after a newsletter).
3. Send out an email immediately after a purchase is made to thank the buyer. Very short, very simple.
4. Attach your inventory list to every sold item. This gives the buyer, who already likes you, more opportunity to purchase.
5. Review your dormant items and create a sale even if its only 5-10% off, put this in an email.....Short and sweet (As you have purchased from me before and to welcome new buyers I am offering a tremendous sale of "X" at 10% off in appreciation!)
6. Featured items help BUT, make it exceptional!
7. Feedback, feedback, feedback.
Above all I would say that getting your name out there should be your primary goal. Get involved in the forums, post some scans, get people talking with you and cater your items to their interests."
I'm tempted to reply simply "You want feedback? Go back and read the comments already posted on the forum when you made the changes that generated the mass exodus of old timers and regular posters." I think I will just ignore this generic plea.
Peter
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I do not know anything about BidStart. I was offered membership several years ago and after a few minutes peeking around decided it was not something I wanted to be involved with. It also took some time for me to decide to join the SOR culture and I can say so far that it too has had it's good, bad, and ugly, but mostly GOOD!!! My fears are that the people that caused BS to go south will migrate to SOR and continue with their bad habits and lack of respect. I applaud those that decided enough was enough and do something about it, come to SOR. Let us all be vigilant to not allow SOR to migrate in the same failing direction. The SOR support organization seems to be keeping a tight handle on the direction of SOR and are also to be heavily applauded for the work they do. It is well appreciated and they are not thanked often enough.
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To Peter: re-->I'm tempted to reply simply "You want feedback? Go back and read the comments already posted on the forum when you made the changes that generated the mass exodus of old timers and regular posters." I think I will just ignore this generic plea.
Peter
Please respond!
I did not get a similar plea.
rrr...
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Ralph, I replied with a more lengthy email outlining all the issues.
DSC: The problem people were few and far between at bidStart; maybe one or two near the end were online bullies and harassed other members (and one was made a moderator!). But for the most part, the old bidStart forum policed itself very well; jerks, scam artists, and narrow minded rants of any persuasion were quickly addressed by members, let alone the moderator (at that time, only one). But after the change in format and introduction of a slew of newer members who did not share this older culture, the quality of posts and collegial atmosphere vaporized. Most of the folks who found their way here later, and some of those who had been here before (Michael numbers, for example) were stalwart posters and good folks overall. We could disagree, argue, or kid each other with no sense of personal attack, as evidenced later. Let's hope THOSE couple of people don't migrate over here!
I'm not looking to go back to their forum, although I continue to maintain a (now more limited) store there. This is my forum home (okay, stop groaning the rest of you!).
Cheers,
Peter
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About a month ago I received a personal (not form email like yours) from Dan. Here is what he sent me:
"As you have always been very active on our forums I wanted to touch base with you.
I am slowly taking over the role of community relationship manager. This entails helping out sellers and those of our users who use the forums. My ultimate goal is to increase (dramatically) the forum users. This won't be a rushed process by any means as I want the sense of community to remain strong.
What I would like to know is your thoughts.
What will improve our forums?
More fun?
More education?
More games?
I don't want to address this directly in the forums as email is more personal and the forums will decline to categories and usernames. Neither of which are productive discussions even though they may be valid.
I would appreciate your help.
"
Here was my reply:
"I don't envy you your task. The bottom line is that the people who were the backbone of the Forum from the beginning with StampWants have left BidStart and gone elsewhere. A few still poke around, mostly because they still have stores here, but they are considering other alternatives. It is just a matter of time before they are gone too.
The VSC/BS merger debacle was the killer for BidStart. The VSC members did on BS just like they do on their own site. They attack anyone who is not like them. There was no consultation with the BS users about this, just an "in your face" here it is. That did not sit well with the BS users, and you have seen the results. Of course, the people using the site don't have to be consulted on anything. This is a commercial site, and we are not the owners. It is the owner's site to do with as they will. The owners have to pay the price for wrong decision making. The old adage, "Don't fix what isn't broken," has been ignored several times here over the years. The VSC/BS merger was the final slap for many.
Not only is participation in the Forums practically non-existant, but sales are drastically down. The lack of participation is not a problem in the Forum. It is a problem that people have with BidStart as a whole. When a building has been in an earthquake, it is torn down and something else gets built or else it just remains a vacant lot. BidStart has been in an earthquake. Its brand has become damaged and people don't enter it anymore. You will have to start from scratch, and rebuild the business (best to change the name too as BidStart is a tainted name along with Stanley Gibbons as relates to BidStart), but also realize that most of the original group of sellers and buyers probably won't be around to help build it back up.
"
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As a follow-up, he sent me an email on August 9 saying that he was going to reply to my message. I never heard back from him.
As for BidStart, there are maybe four or so postings a day in the Forum, sometimes a little more. In August I had $86 in sales. My average monthly sales were around $400. My store had 25,000 items. I am down to just over 10,300, and that continues to drop. I have sent over 40 sales books to the APS, and send a new package of six to eight books to the APS every two weeks. I started at "A", and am going through the alphabet. I am currently in Germany (DDR). Some items remain in the store as they are either too large to fit in the sales books, or I have too large a quantity of a stamp. When I complete one book, I do go back to the countries I have already passed through and take more out to put in the books, so the "A" to where I am at constantly continues to be reduced along with the rest of my inventory.
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Peter - I think you and I agree. A couple bad apples can spoil the barrel. I have no problem with refuges, I have problems with the "Rebels without a cause".
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It wasn't a matter of bad refugees. It was bad actors being put in a position of authority and unilateral decisions to change the forum rules. As long as SOR keeps the rules of conduct the same, keeps the capable administrators in place, and continues to use feedback from the Community to guide updates to the site, SOR will do fine. Even the worst actors from BidStart could not have a bad impact here if they are not given a position of authority. Bullies would be quickly marginalized here, I hope. That doesn't mean we have to all agree all the time, and I've learned the most when my incorrect posts have been corrected by more knowledgeable philatelists. I really appreciate all the help I've gotten from kind folks here and BidStart/StampWants.
I'm not only thankful SOR is here, but if it weren't for the BidStart debacle I may have never met many delightful folks here. I hate to single out just one because I have had interesting conversations with several folks here, but it's been a blast conversing with Saleem. It is way too cool to have a conversation with a guy in India about International airmail covers franked with US Airmail stamps!
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Lars - I agree. I hope we can keep the bullies outside and at least if they get in, keep them at bay.
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I received this reply from Dan, at bidStart; I think he is a quality guy who may be stuck in an awkward position with respect to what happened.
"I wanted to take a minute to thank you for your candid and honest response. I appreciate the time and effort it took for you to respond. There is little condolence for me in knowing that you continue to use bidStart but feel so let down by our staff that you no longer feel communication on the forums is warranted or welcomed. For that I do apologize. I can offer you one further option to perhaps amend the issues. I am currently scheduled for an interview with Mike Hall, the CEO of Stanley Gibbons. Instead of me asking questions that mean little or are superficial to the community I am offering every member of bidStart both past and present the opportunity to pose their questions to Mr. Hall. If you feel that you may be interested in this the discussion is available to you ( http://www.bidstart.com/community/forums/topic/54399/ask-the-ceo-a-question) and I welcome your responses. I know this may do little to assuage the feelings of wrong doing but I want you to know there is an opportunity to express your opinions and I will listen.
Thank You Again,
-Dan"
I thanked him for his reply, and the opportunity to ask the CEO of Stanley Gibbons questions, but declined to participate in the forum, even for this. I do have some site questions that I might pass along to someone else to ask.
Okay, no more of this from me; I just wanted to give closure to the latest stream I started.
Peter
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Peter - "Nice Job" as they say. Not many CEO's are going to listen or respond to questions from the peanut gallery. This cannot even be on the radar screen of Mike Hall. Tell Dan to tell Mike to call you personally. If he does, then I think you have their attention and may be well worth the time to converse. But, where do you think this will go if requested?
Yeh, kind of what I thought!!!!
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Peter,
I would agree that no response is needed. What's the point? Even if they agreed to go right back to doing things the way they were doing them 2 years ago, which means no more real names, no more VSC members in positions of authority, a return to the forum interface we could all understand - I won't go back and there are likely many members like me. It was the knowledgeable and broad-based community that kept me there, and most of them have moved on. Buyers like me always look first to buy from friends on our favorite forum before checking out eBay. I never check listings on BidStart any more. I had my profile deleted in protest of the real name debacle. That will obviously translate into fewer sales for the sellers and then they have to decide when to pull the plug. BidStart swallowed a poison pill. I'm glad SOR is here for refugees like me.
Lars
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I agree with Lars, you can never go back. Micheal put it very well with the earthquake analogy. I also got the same e-mail from Dan- I answered him with I've moved on .....
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OK, so what happened to those refugees from Bidstart ?
What was so bad when Gibbons took over ?
Just curious.
Londonbus1
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06:46:09am
Londonbus
Around the beginning of April things begin happening at Bidstart and the Virtual Stamp Club. Since then there have been many discussions here regarding the exodus of members from Bidstart to here. The most lengthy (and informative) of these discussions is here:
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=6796#43163
Hope this helps.
Bobby
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Londonbus,
For me, in a nutshell, it was the use of real names in the forums without notice. I considered that a serious breach of privacy. That meant my name would be associated with any comment I made or even disagreed with and could be found via search engine. If someone searches my name on the internet I do not want discussions that I thought were more private to show up in the results. I have clients that are rather opinionated and I don't want them to see my name next to a discussion about a volatile topic, nor do I want them to think I'm too busy with stamps to take care of their needs. It's all about perception.
I know you can find my real name and email address here, and that's OK, but to publish it in a forum posting makes it available to the search engines and I chose to manage my own online profile, thank you very much! The VSC gestapo came in and dictated that real names must be used to prevent bullying - which had never been a problem at BidStart - and then started bullying the folks in the forums.
I have moved on and found a new home, here. I do not know or care what becomes of BidStart at this point.
Lars
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Londonbus: Just to add to what Lars said about real names, for some members it was more than just privacy but security; for some, their line of work meant they really could not have their real name publicly posted, and for others they did not want themselves publicly disclosed as having high value collections. But the main issue was how things were mishandled. Instead of addressing this in a constructive manner, or in some cases, addressing it at all when the member complained, administration ignored the arguments until it got to boiling point, and then only did an interim change, where some members got to display their handles in the open forum, but not all.
I have to say that I thought the bullying was not by VSC members, who were also thrown into this new situation, but due to two bidStart members who may or may not have been at VSC too. One became the very bully they decried as not wanting, and the other was the newly appointed manager of the community forum. Both were relatively quite in the bidStart forum until this change, then one turned on fellow members openly and the other failed to reign him in. The bully is still there and was promoted to moderator status at one point, but the failed forum manager seems to have gone the way of VSC.
I think this was all symptomatic of the administration's disregard for the very people who made that community forum. I also do not think this has anything to do with Stanley Gibbons per se, so it is meaningless to ask the CEO or anyone there about what happened. I place the blame entirely on Mark, the person who started StampWants, developed bidStart, and ran it with members' input and support up to that sudden change following the merger with SG. Those halcyon days are gone, finis, finito, kaput, pau.
Peter
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As I see it from the posts here and other threads, those refugees are from the forum and NOT the Auction list. Is that correct ?
Are those members still using the auction ?
As someone who finds all Auctions forums a complete waste of time (except for Advertising) I guess I don't understand the troubles. What I mean is, why hang around there in the first place ?
Regarding VSC, I was a member there for a very short time but as the place resembled a boxing ring for the most part, I got out. Over the years since then, I have seen links to threads that looked more like the Syrian Civil War than a stamp forum. They had a good name once but their decline to a laughing stock was not surprising.
The philatelic content on other forums was much more interesting and relevant.
I do find the new-look set-up at Bidstart encouraging and comfortable. Just a pity about the thousands of Bogus stamps and sheets that crop up at every turn !!
Londonbus1
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As others can attest to from their experiences, my own sales at BidStart (with one of the larger stores there) plummeted starting in April when the merger occurred. Sales actually up to that point were doing quite nicely. Since April, my sales have averaged less than $100 per month (my average prior to the VSC merger was around $400 per month). I sell alot of lower valued stamps, so monthly sales of $200 up to $600 and sometimes more per month was pretty amazing to me. I am slowly taking down my store at BidStart. Most of the stamps are being sent to the APS to sell. I had 25,000 stamps listed there. Today I have a little over 10,000.
For me, regarding sales, this was the fourth time that BidStart made drastic changes that affected sales. I slugged through the other changes as sales dropped and slowly recovered only to drop a little while later. I got tired of the roller coaster ride, and decided to avoid any more drop offs caused by the next modification to the site by bringing the stamps down and selling them through the APS. I'll let them do the selling and shipping for me. Saves me plenty of time! The commission isn't all that much more than paying BidStart and PayPal fees, plus the money goes to the APS and not PayPal or BidStart.
I sold through the APS back in the 1990s. It takes a year or longer to start getting payments, but when they come in, they keep on coming as long as you keep submitting more material, including resubmitting unsold material or even putting retired sales books on the clearance circuits. I went for almost two years getting a check for around $800 a month. That was quite nice.
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Michael,
Just curious. So you sell through the APS circuit sales or online at the APS site? Isn't selling via circuit a very time consuming enterprise - hinging all those stamps to the books - or am I out of touch with how its done these days?
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Londonbus: I have a store at bidStart and I, too, have little faith in auctions; I generally get one to two bids there and only if I start at 1c to 49c max per item. But contrary to Michael's experience, I must admit that I have had a steady stream of store buyers since April. However, I've noticed a trend in that most of these are overseas buyers, especially UK and Australia, and correspondingly, most sold items tend to be my British Commonwealth items. I've discontinued all my UN, all postcards, and most covers as they were just not going anywhere.
What was a shame with the community forum there was the ability to advertize your sales, especially any discounts or auctions you had coming up. It did generate more interest in items than not advertizing. But that is lost with the new forum for many of us who left and retain stores or auctions there.
Peter
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As all have said...I too have moved on, and there is no going back. Closing the BS forum chapter.
I never sold on BS but I still buy some. However my purchases must be down 90% from before, and are confined to a handful of sellers.
I no longer look at their forum.
As far as the current BS Auctions and Stores, I do like some of the software capabilities they have, to track wish lists, to watch items, and to put items in the shopping cart until the total has reached a level adequate to process an order...and to do comparative shopping. The variety and scope of stamps offered is quite good, even if you discount the Poppe 700,000 items that artificially push the BS offering total. As of late, a number of British seller (including Stanley Gibbons ) have listed expensive items, possibly rare, at prices that are not for me and often well above catalog, so I suspect they are going after another type of collector, and may be discounting the low end.
But do we really need another ebay?
That being said, their software also has terrible defects that they seem unwilling to address! Conceptually, it reflects a narrow, insular, inflexible and personally defensive position that forces you constantly to work around the system, rather than with it. Wears you out, after a while...but then, so does ebay, or the other sales sites.
The BS auction site still provides a good avenue to acquire some low cost (as well as cheap) items that no one else seems to want to sell, or have.
My average per item purchase cost is well under $1. But as of late, there seems to be less used stamps, and more M, or MNH being offered.
I am trying to build my purchases here at SOR, but frankly I don't find the range or variety I need, and I find myself buying one 25c item and waiting months before I find another wanted item from the same seller. Sellers have been most accommodating!
A system to list a lot of low cost items, approval book like or "pick and choose" like will go a long way to up my purchases, for me.
At SOR, I have established some good trading partnership though, and this thrills me!
This forum is great. Thanks to all who continue to make it a success. And to make the "refugees" feel at home.
rrr...
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"Just curious. So you sell through the APS circuit sales or online at the APS site? Isn't selling via circuit a very time consuming enterprise - hinging all those stamps to the books - or am I out of touch with how its done these days?"
I am selling through the circuits. It takes time to put the books together, but I can get about 8 books completed in a week. That's between 1000 and 1500 stamps. Also, I don't need to take pictures of the stamps, edit the pictures, create listings and upload pictures. So, I think it takes less time to put the sales books together than it does to sell them on a web site. Also, I won't have to monitor for sales and then pack and ship the stamps. Overall much less work (and headaches) than selling myself.
Peter, I'm pretty certain that my BidStart sales from the past couple of months are directly affected by my store inventory being drawn down. This week I have had two sales. One is a $5 sale from Germany, and the other is from rrr. That's about how it runs now. I gave it a couple of months before I decided to sell through the APS.
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Hi Michael, i am our club rep for the APS circuit..we receive a box of about 17 books each month that the members request. The members are willing to spend but lately the selections have not been that great..and sometimes they send a book with only one or two stamps left in it and i am afraid to bring it to the club..i know the uproar it would cause..i used to send in books in the early 90'ss but by the time they got finished with shipping,insurance and commission fees...i did not have much left !
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Phil, the APS had a different method of calculating fees back in the 1990s. I do agree with you that it could be a killer on some books. I actually lost money on some books that had low sales.
For instance, they used to charge insurance coverage for the original book value regardless of how much value was left in the book when they retired it. That was ridiculous, obviously. Now when they retire a book and return it, they insure it for the remaining value. Also, if you want to send a retired book to the closeout circuits, you don't pay any shipping or insurance fees. You just get a check when it sells.
I have been receiving circuits for over 20 years. The only time I saw a book with just a couple of stamps in it was when I was at the bottom of the list and others in the circuit had picked through it, or if it had valuable stamps in it. I suppose someone at the Sales Division could have mixed the wrong book in a circuit. One time I saw a couple of books in a circuit that were sent previously. When it was run with a ledger book, mistakes were common. I think with it being run with the help of a computer, it has gotten much better.
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Phil, I guess the bottom line is that the sales aren't there on BidStart. At least I can get the stamps viewed by APS membership (larger customer base). I also belong to the Texas Philatelic Association and can submit for sale there and the Oklahoma Philatelic Association later if I want. Just better, more active customer bases than the environment on today's BidStart. For the fees, I don't think that after figuring the costs associated with selling on BidStart (PayPal fees, BidStart fees, packaging items needed to ship, time taken to post for sale online, going to the post office, etc.) that the APS fees are going to be that much different. Plus there's the time factor where I don't have to spend as much time selling and monitoring. I only have to make up the books and ship them to the APS where they do all the work from that point on.
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"But do we really need another ebay?"
I certainly do, at least a relatively decent competitor. I never bought anything from BidStart because I have no interest in buying one item at a time unless it is a very high end item. Otherwise, there is no value. Might as well just bid on a collection and get decent quality stamps for 5% of CV.
As for the forum, I drop by once in a while. I don't quite understand the "I'll never go back" sentiment as I really don't care where I obtain and exchange information. I'll go wherever I need to for the entertainment/information value and hold no grudges if the software sucks or the personalities clash. If its a dry well though, there's no point in returning all that often.
Why the 4 or 5 different forums don't just unite into one community is beyond me, but I don't quite understand those type of dynamics-not being much of a social animal, I pretty much don't attach to one place or another. I consider the entire group of sites one community, albeit each with its own foibles and eccentricities (as well as strengths).
Although I would say, of the communities discussed SCF and StampoRama are the best I've found, with SCF the place for expertise (no offense) and StampoRama for community.
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I think HungaryForStamps is right on. Competition is healthy and a better alternative to Ebay would be desirable. That "one" alternative does not exist, however, and one has to look in multiple places (I would mention the APS stamps store in this context, bought there for the first time last week.)
I also see nothing wrong with having several stamp forums. Many of us are also members elsewhere and why not?
The assessment that we are high on "community" and low on expertise hurts me a little, but is probably true too. I guess this isn't so bad, as Rome wasn't build in a day and we certainly have the potential to grow in expertise and quality of content over time. That is, if one subscribes to the notion that this would be a worthwhile goal "for people who love to talk about stamps" (see at top of page). The community and large membership base, we already have. I also wouldn't see a conflict with achieving high marks along both dimensions: great quality content and great community. But at times it appears there is some sentiment here that these two goals conflict.
However, overall I believe that Stamporama has overcome an extended period of "plateauing" or "slow change," and is on an accelerated upwards trajectory now. I am very excited, for instance, about the member newsletter that will become a new permanent feature soon again, thanks to Kelly and Ross. This will bring hopefully more members into the fold again, help the discussion board, help the auction, help finding trading partners etc.
Another major, and very recent, initiative -- of course -- was the major do-over of the discussion board to make it more supportive of philatelic discussions. These were technical changes only, of course, but having philatelic categories is a big thing, I believe. To recall the rationale for these changes: (1) if we put discussions on Washington-Franklin stamps in a category U.S. stamps (which heretofore did not exist), it is more likely that members will retrieve these discussions and will add to them at later times, (2) more descriptive titles of a discussion topic, for instance, "Funny slogan cancels of the world" as compared to "We don't say things like this any more ..." (to give a recent example), will invite more interest and more participation from members. Of course, considering the countless hours our moderators spend apologizing and explaining for what are really trivial adjustments to make this a better place, makes me at times wonder if the membership at large actually likes the new discussion board better than the old one. It was certainly conceived with a lot of good intentions and intensive discussions.
Then there is the new link list, which is without equals in its design. Again, some members (Mike (meostamps), Peter (cocollectibles) and Bobby (bobby1948)) stepped up, serve as link moderators, and took charge of one aspect of our website to make Stamporama better. And once you start listing, you don't want to miss anybody, so there is the articles area, managed by Ralph (Heyralph).
So yes, I am certain we will catch up on the content and expertise dimension, which some members perceive as lagging. Of course, at the same time it will be important not to alienate those members who are concerned that changes in general -- and initiatives to improve philatelic content in particular -- are a threat to the community.
Well just some random thoughts ...
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What you say is all well and good, but misses the key point for some of us, especially those who vow never to go back. BidStart started posting real names without proper notice or authorization and thereby exposed the members to undesired search results.
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I believe that we have great knowledge base here but is under utilized. I also believe that our members are more likely to do there own research before asking a question. I also visit several other forums and see a lot of 'Lazy questions' about identification of common stamps,but also you can sometime's become catalog blind. It has happened to us all.
Just look at the level of details provided by peterstamps on the U.S. Scott#554 as discussed in this thread:
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=7498#49149
As for "I'll never go back"- if you weren't there you wont understand what transpired.
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-09-12 09:50:51)
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For the record I didn't say this forum was low on expertise. Just meant that SCF is my first choice for expertise without the accompanying slap in the face you might get elsewhere, Stamporama excluded of course. Threads here seem more community oriented which may simply be a misperception or a result of how I use the two sites.
On SCF, I just look at the list of top 100 active threads, which gets a bit of everything. Here I tend to drill down from the Discussions page, which means I have to visit different folders. I just may not be getting to the same types of threads. I think SCF is more active as well. Threads here seem to be more chit-chatty.
I don't mean any of this as a criticism of this forum. I like this forum as it is. Just relaying my experiences.
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"What you say is all well and good, but misses the key point for some of us, especially those who vow never to go back. BidStart started posting real names without proper notice or authorization and thereby exposed the members to undesired search results."
I understand what happened. Just don't understand the grudge part. Redemption seems possible, especially an online site that can be visited and utilized passively so "never" wouldn't be in my voabulary. I mean, reading a few posts and posting a few responses seems pretty tame to me, but what do I know. I guess if you want to post in anonymity that's a legitimate concern there, but BidStart can't expect to meet the Ebay challenge without some sort of transparency, can they? But it was wrong to change without at least some warning.
I guess I am more tolerant towards companies (than individuals) as they are vastly different than people and many times struggle to find the best approach: a few bad apples can spoil the corporate pie, but hopefully someone sane steps in at some point and sets things right. That said, I do hate the ethos of some corporations, such as Apple, that were spoiled from the top, and will not go back any time soon (at least until it completes a purge of the ethos of its past), so I guess I'm a hypocrite.
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Michael 78651: What are the APS fees & costs involved with sales books? Thanks, Ted.
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Ted, the only requirement, aside from being an APS member, is that to sell through the circuits you have to use the APS sales books. To mount the stamps in the books, you can use whatever mounts you want. I use hinges, stock cards, glassines, black mounts, and the pocket mounts (by the Washington Press - White Ace people) that you can buy from the APS.
Here is a link to the APS web site and the information relating to selling through the sales circuits:
http://stamps.org/How-to-Sell
One thing I see missing from the web page is the option a seller has to send a book about to be retired to the "Closeout" circuits. A seller can save on the retired book costs by doing this and the book gets sold.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
28 Apr 2013
07:46:27am
Welcome Michael!
This is a very friendly place to be. Also, do not worry about the fees, there are none. Poke around, enjoy and feel free to jump in wherever it feels comfortable to do so.
Bobby Barnhart
Stamporama Board Moderator
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
28 Apr 2013
08:06:32am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Michael!
This site seams really positive with a lot of good attributes -only been here a week my self.
Ross
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome aboard Michael. You will recognize a lot of people over here.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hi Michael. The big difference with Stamporama compared to most of the other sites is that this is a true club. Buying, selling, trading, swapping (not wives or husbands), sharing and talking to each other is all on that level. It is usually low-keyed and relaxing to hang around here. I'm not going to say that things don't get heated now and then, but those now and thens aren't like you've seen elsewhere.
There are a large number of members here who reside outside the US, and everyone who wants to join here goes through a little review. I have been here several years, and the integrity of the members here is very high. To my knowledge there has only been one or two tossed out of here for fraud in the auction selling area.
My best advice to you and all the other newcomers is to sit back, relax and enjoy the warm confines of the club. You're among 2,000 philatelic friends now.
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
28 Apr 2013
10:24:36am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Michael!I'm sure you will find SOR to be everything you hoped and more!
I want to let you and everyone else reading this email know that I am a DB moderator. If anyone ever has any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me. If I don't have an answer immediately for you, I will be sure to find the answer or send you to the appropriate person. All the moderators are here to help!
Enjoy yourself spending time on the site and post when you're ready!
Lisa
DB Moderator
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hi Michael! Yes, seems a lot of Bidstarters have moved over! Glad you made it over the "wall"!
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
28 Apr 2013
03:27:28pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome to our Refugee Camp - I'm glad to welcome all the new members. While it may feel like a Refugee Camp for the first few days or weeks, I'm sure you will all fit in quite nicely and find yourself at HOME very quickly.
As many others have mentioned, one of the biggest differences is that we are a stamp club - trades and auctions are just an addition to our club just like you would see in a physical club.
Again - I welcome all of you!
Kelly
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome, Michael-non-numbers!
You will like it here -- there are lots of smilies to disgust you!
k
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I'm the guy who gave you a hard time at first, but several members recommended you so I can always blame them if you turn out to be a Liberal "Democrat".......Welcome aboard P
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
28 Apr 2013
04:49:16pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Actually I think the most used emoticon in the whole forum should be and would be .....
(It wasn't me!)
Kelly
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Michael.
Good to see another Turkey specialist. Kim, What is the Turkey emotion?
Just back from WestPex, and almost bid on a Turkey specialized collection...but then, what to do with the multiple copies? If I had known you were here...
This place is really feeling like home. Hope the odd Aussies make it through censorship...lol
rrr...
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
rrr, do you mean this one?
Or this one?
Or this one?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
28 Apr 2013
06:09:25pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Yeah, Kim, you're gonna fit right in this loony bin! (Now where is Chief Bromden and that fog machine?)
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I see that some of the newcomers from the other site have set up seller accounts here. They were selling over there, so buyers here should get themselves prepared to see a bigger variety of stamps listed for sale here. Of course if I would get off my duff I could do that here too...
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
28 Apr 2013
10:00:14pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Yup Michael - so get crackin'! LOL
Kelly
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
==>> one k
I like this one, Is there a voice over feature?
How did you get it to post? (did you store the image and then copy it?) clearly I can't copy/paste it..or I don't know how. I don't see it in my choices at the bottom, so it must be a one k special! Also, when I try to place an emotion in the text, it seems to ignore my wishes and post where it has decided it is appropriate? I hear this voice over saying...we know where it would look better! Anyone experience this? (I am on the latest Chrome version)
On a separate subject, is there a way to have the last 30 postings option, or for that matter last day or last week postings choices as well, to post by date in chronological order...starting with the most recent post, rather than as currently set up? Or just to provide this sorting option in addition, as well?
rrr...
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-04-29 03:53:19)
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
3r
Try this process. It may be a long way, but it is how I do it:
- Copy the URL and paste it in the URL box of your browser
- press ENTER
- the image should appear
- place your cursor on the image and right click on it
- a pop-up should appear
- click on SAVE IMAGE AS
- press ENTER
- you should find the file of the image (emoticon) on your desk top to do with as you please
- click on it and it should appear
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I thought I'd better show you that the steps I listed work. I merely uploaded the image file from my desktop into the message just like any other image file.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Good to see you, md. I'd be wary of this place, if I were you. As Groucho said, I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.
Tedski
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"I can't copy/paste it..or I don't know how."
I've never tried directly pasting an image. I'm pretty sure you can't do that. Just upload the image, as per Michael##### instructions/example; I assume an image link to another hosting site would also work, but I haven't tried that.
"Also, when I try to place an emotion in the text, it seems to ignore my wishes and post where it has decided it is appropriate?"
Yeah, I've run into that problem frequently. Not sure what is causing it. I haven't reported it as bug because the problem is intermittent and I'm not sure when/why it happens. When it does happen, the smiley seems to always want to appear in the same wrong spot.
I end up having to cut the smiley code and pasting it into the correct spot. I'm using FF19. Maybe Michael-no# has hacked into the system in his bid to rid the world of smileys?
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hello Michael
Quote: ""Mostly I've been a US collector, but expanded into Turkey a few years ago. (Figured I should??!) Also general worldwide.""
Too many Michaels, so I will have to post your private emotion when writing to you.
How's the Turkish collection coming along. Interested in trading some... I guess this is encouraged here!
rrr....
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12:51:01pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hi guys. I wondered where you were! And you thought you got away from me, eh?
Cheers,
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hi Peter
Welcome here.
What! no familiar Avatar?
rrr...
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01:18:03pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Bonjour Rrrrrr! New avatar; can't find the old penny black with Coco's face imposed.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
This avatar will do fine, Peter. A suggestion though. Split your www...etc address into two lines, as it crowds the text space, as it is now (a software enhancement suggestion to SOR?)
rrr...
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02:01:28pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Thanks Ralph. I abbreviated it with the user ID link.
In response to the original post about bidStart, I too left the forum not so much for the primitive features now (and Kim is right, they are improving things there, as far as my lurking can see; I won't post there again), but how this was done and how members' sentiments are not being considered in the process. As far as I can tell, the older posts (pre-VSC entry) still have our handles and not our names. One thing I dread over there is the real possibility that the store interface will change to something they deem "new and improved" (how I hate that phrase!). If that happens, I will close my store and dispose of my collections through a larger auction site or something similar.
Anyway, good to be here!
Cheers,
Peter
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
29 Apr 2013
02:16:12pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Peter,
Welcome aboard again. I feel the same and my store will remain open for the time being. And of course all transaction will be honored. Now Here we can trade!!!!!!!!
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Coco!!!
Glad you could bring your human, Peter, with you!
k
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
There are two ways that you can sell here:
- Auction - but do not post any advertisements on what you personally have in the auctions.
- Post a specific item that you want to sell directly on the Buy, Swap and Trade Board. There you can post what you have.
Don't be afraid to make a post, or where to put it. There are several moderators here, and they'll be happy to help you get your post to the right place.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"New avatar; can't find the old penny black with Coco's face imposed."
How about a "Doggy Head" stamp?
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Cool, and the right color for Lady Coco.
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07:17:57pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I once tried a Cocos Islands stamp but it didn't work as well.
If you send me that image, I'll adopt it for Coco! Thanks Tedski.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Coco,
Just click on the image, hold the left mouse button down, and drag it to your desktop.
Regards ... Tim
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
29 Apr 2013
08:33:46pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Peter and Coco! I'm thrilled to have another dog lover here
If you right click on the image of the stamp and select "Save image as" you should be able to save the image to your desktop. Then you can go to your edit your membership profile and upload the image as your avatar.
Hope that helps!
Lisa
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
29 Apr 2013
08:34:20pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Or do what Tim said.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome to all the new members--I've been away a bit & hadn't realized that the new members I was seeing were all from BidStart. For several years now, SOR & VSC had been my haunts--maybe bought at BidStart (didn't even KNOW there was a forum...) and viewed Stamp Community Family. As has been stated, the current "state of affairs" at BidStart and Delphi "The Stamp Forum" has really been off-putting. I'll wait & see what happens at Delphi, but unless things change really drastically, I will not be a regular part of BidStart. SOR has generally been the most convivial, and sometimes most helpful (to those looking for help) of all the stamp forums I have visited on a regular basis. I'm an infrequent poster, read daily (well, most of the time) and enjoy the community.
Roger
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10:10:49pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Tim and Lisa, thanks for the tip on saving the image!
Lisa, check out my pictures of Coco dog in the dog post here.
Cheers,
Peter
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
30 Apr 2013
05:35:10pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I did check out Coco. She's beautiful!
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
30 Apr 2013
05:56:42pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I have a question for the BS members (or previous BS members). I had bookmarked two threads of interest from the old forum. When I go to those bookmarked URLs, they are still there. Why are they still active? Is the old forum hiding somewhere?
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
The old SW Forum is no unfortunately longer directly accessible through the BS portal. You have to go through the new BS software to access it.
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08:38:52pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Lisa, the old posts on bidStart and the old posts on VSB will all be retained; for the latter, they need to get permission from the particular members as to what they will allow to be posted to the new forum (at least that is what I understand from reading the new posts). However, the "pre-change over" bidStart posts are going to be a part of the new forum format; they currently retain the handles instead of names (for example, mine are posted as Cocollectibles, and not Peter LastName) but who knows if that will change at some point too.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"but who knows if that will change at some point too."
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Peter,
I sent you an email with what I had for your old avatars. Remember I made my local post stamps after the last HeartWalk I did?
Unfortunately, they are only small pics
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09:57:22pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"Peter,
I sent you an email with what I had for your old avatars. Remember I made my local post stamps after the last HeartWalk I did?
Unfortunately, they are only small pics
"
Hi Doug. Did you send it to my cocollectibles email? I'll get it when I get back to Atlanta in a couple of days. Thanks for that. I kinda like the new petulant Coco dog avatar though; I will get that look for days upon my return (especially as I've petted several dogs here!).
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
If this is not the BidStart Refugee Camp, it most certainly is the StampOffers/Wensy Refugee Camp.
David
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Well, curiosity got the better of me, and I trolled into the BS and VSC forums to see what was going on. I won't report, as you can do it yourself, but one comment made me smile as it reflected very much some of my feelings about the "Lloydblog" at BS.
I copied (sorry forgot to note the source, but it was on VSC):
"" 48784.20 in reply to 48784.15
Lloyd is a radio guy. Radio people regard silence as a fate worse than death, so they never permit "dead" time to occur. Lloyd applies the same habit to his on-line activity. He never lets time go by without seeing that new material is always present, even if he has to contrive it.
I would like to believe we have no need for that kind of stimulation now that Lloyd has left us. If you have something worth sharing, post it. If not, silence is golden.""
Amusing
rrr...
PS: LOL..no easy comment about MY remaining silent, please..
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I think there were only two or three posts over at BS Forum today.
I sold three stamps too.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I posted all three, I think! Just helping some people out.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
It's really unfortunate, the current state of things there.
Good of you to help others out, Doug!
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01:26:43pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I am running a 3 day only, 50% off sale, on my B/S store.I am just curious if I will be able to sell anything. I only have about 600 lots so I am not expecting a miracle, but do think, that I should be able to sell some stamps.My regular prices are competivie, so at half off, they should tempt some people.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I suppose I am fearfully naive, but I had always heard that stamp collectors were all gentlemen (and gentlewomen). I have witnessed the exact opposite, both in local stamp clubs, in APS (over the last decade at least) and now the kerfluffle that has ensued with SG buying bS, bringing Lloyd & VSC from Delphi over to bS & the subsequent reinvention of the Stamp Collecting Forum on Delphi, and finally the "divorce" between Lloyd and bS. I read all of this, and generally keep my head low (I really do not like confrontation...), with the occasional post. I have very much appreciated SOR because the level of animus is quite low (with the exception of the Steamroom now and then...). I learn much (by the time I'm ready to post a helpful comment, at least 2 others have said the same thing--and that's quite OK, BTW) and enjoy the group. I have personally moved in and out of forums & am now completely off bS--the real name thing did it for me.
Roger
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22 Jun 2013
08:30:34pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Roger,
I think the lack of loyalty from the BS staff at the time of merger really disappointed me. They truly forgot the members that got them to that point. I still maintain a store at BS for the time being. Although I look at the forum a couple of time I will not post or participate in any discussion there. I have said this before The folks here at SOR have made me feel welcome and very comfortable. I do not see myself as a refugee but blessed to found such a great place.
Ross
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07:37:54am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I agree with both of you and I do as Ross does, and lurk on that forum. Sometimes I feel as though I were witnessing a traffic accident and I should just move on quickly but you can't help but glare at the resultant gore and mess. I feel bad for newbies who post asking for help and get very little back (if it were not for Doug and Michael numbers, they would get nothing back). In the past, the collegial atmosphere was such that even relative newbies flocked to offer advice in good spirit, but now ...
Mark posted a "give me suggestions on how to bring the forum back to life" post and it failed miserably. When told to bring it back to what it was, these well intentioned posters were met with "what EXACTLY do you want" replies, which were ignored when they got specific. It then deteriorated into a series of questions and answers. Evidently, according to the Delphi forum and other sites who monitored that thread, posts were deleted and edited by admin too.
The good old days are gone folks; may the old forum and SW/bS community rest in peace. We'll see what happens to the selling and buying sections next, and let SG make it's own business decision as to the merits of this merger.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Ross, i love it that you and many others are looking forward and considering us home rather than a way stop on the diaspora; Roger, we are mostly nicer than average, but, unfortunately, we are people and subject to all the illnesses we visit upon the world and each other. We have our thieves, egomaniacs, forgetful geese, and cranks. We probably just have less of them. And we do a good job of modelling good behavior and little tolerance for bullies and cranks.
David
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I just witnessed a back-and-forth on the BS forum that seemed a bit over the top and getting into name-calling, so I wanted to (as admin) lock down the thread and leave it where it lies, for I couldn't see it of any benefit for that thread to continue. But apparently, my admin rights have been taken away without even being notified and now I can't do a thing about it. Having gotten a new job that has made me work a lot more (and spend less time stamping), I have not posted much of anything other than some helpful hints and answering of questions as I have the time. I have not worn my thoughts and feeling on my sleeve as others have. Yet, I guess something was enough to get me booted as an admin over there anyways. Whatever....
Well, they can HAVE IT. Here it comes! My mini-tirade:
I faaart in their general direction. Their mothers were hamsters, and their fathers smelt of eldeberries!
Well there. I feel better now.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
WELCOME to the FAMILY MICHAEL !
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
23 Jun 2013
11:21:36am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Having visited both of the other sites this morning I can say that both are in complete disarray. The BS forum there a little tong rattling about how boring things are without Lloyd(almost zero participation from members now) but over at Delphi its turning toxic on several levels. The 'Holy Crap" thread is just that crap and the "What role should Llody Play" is on a negative down turn.
Through all of this turmoil I think many folks have lost sight of the purpose of these site's which in truth is a shame as both at some point provided a positive influence on our hobby. It's not about grandstanding or loyalties to an individual or entity but having fun and enjoying stamp collecting.
Change is and almost certainly always will be difficult. I think that here at SOR a lesson has been learned that discussion on change can be civil even when negative as long as we don't loose sight of our hobby.
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12:00:02pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
And the traffic accident gore spreads across the broadband highway ...
Welcome Doug; you deserved more respect and at least acknowledgement for the effort you made to try to keep that forum above water.
Aloha,
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Doug, you may have missed it, but Mark posted that it was determined to be inappropriate for non-BS or SG employees to act as moderators on a commercial web site.
I lost all my rights as well.
As for the problems at the Delphi Forum...well, now you know why the BS Forums had so many problems when the two were merged.
Doug, I saw the post you were referring to. Mark deleted it.
About 3,000 items have been taken down from my store. MEG has been working quicker than I, because my recent work hours are not conducive to me working on stamps. He has returned to SOR, and said that he is quite pleased over the results of his items that had been sitting dormant on BS selling over here with multiple bids too.
Just for the record:
I am michael78651, he is michael78664.
He plans to have more items up in the auctions here than Grant does.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I think I helped Ted pare down his store, by going on a shopping spree. Hey, 50% off is my trigger! Good stuff Ted... now bring it here Ted!
rrr....
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"it was determined to be inappropriate for non-BS or SG employees to act as moderators on a commercial web site."
You have to admit, they are pretty consistent about not telling anybody until after the fact.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I have stayed with the Delphi forum, but it is like watching a train wreck--you can't look away. I took a brief hiatus from there, but continue to read. In particular, I participate in the threads related to APS and the By-Laws change/CEO disaster. Another train wreck. As has been said, we're all people, with all the faults common to people. At least the hotter threads are in the Steamroom, and if you don't want to know, don't go there. Now, I just got this lot of early stamps of Belgium to sort and categorize....
Roger
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Jun 2013
11:22:09pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
" .... but having fun and enjoying stamp collecting. ...."
That's what I said last week.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"posters were met with "what EXACTLY do you want" replies,"
Yeah, Mark's being disingenuous, now. People have been telling him EXACTLY what they want since the day changes were made.
Tedski
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"I faaart in their general direction. Their mothers were hamsters, and their fathers smelt of eldeberries!"
. . . those tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms. Empty-headed animal food trough water.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"I think I helped Ted pare down his store, by going on a shopping spree. "
I better check my shopping cart and see what you copped from me before I could check out.
Tedski
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"APS and the By-Laws change/CEO disaster"
might you fill me in on this.
David
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
David,
I was certainly wondering why there was no discussion here about these important changes to the structure of the APS that have been discussed for weeks (months now?) everywhere else in the philatelic community. Of course, it will be all after the fact now. Nevertheless, because it is still an important topic, I took the liberty to open a new thread for this discussion as it does not really fit here.
Arno
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I must say, I'm mildly amused by the BS'ers that wander back "over there" for the BS and report that things are still messed up. I understand sellers with stores being concerned, but when I told Mark "I'm done, delete my profile," I meant it. SOR is my new home. I have no more concern about what happens at BS than I do about a previous girlfriend's dating habits.
Can we all sing a verse from Bryan Adams:
"Take me back, won't you ..."
My response is on the unedited live version.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
The ones drifting back are still selling on BS. Takes time to get thousands of stamps down from there. I just had my largest one-buyer purchase, almost $800. I am concerned about this, however, as this is a buyer with 0 feedback.
I have already had 2 non-payers this month.
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11:25:47pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Well, here's where everyone's gone.
-Les
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Les. You found the BS refugee camp!
rrr...
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"The ones drifting back are still selling on BS. Takes time to get thousands of stamps down from there. I just had my largest one-buyer purchase, almost $800. I am concerned about this, however, as this is a buyer with 0 feedback.
I have already had 2 non-payers this month. "
Turned out to be non-payer #3 for the month June). Working on non-payer #1 for July. Don't know what's going on over there with buyers not wanting to pay. Used to be tighter controls. Have never been stuck that many times in one month.
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11:52:38am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
RE Non-Payers....seems to be a problem on other auction sites also.. Esp. Wensy
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11:59:41am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Les, welcome! We've been expecting you (and many others!). Good folks here, and a very good atmosphere.
Cheers,
Peter
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Jul 2013
12:08:39pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I assume that those with non-payer problems have the person's name and should the problem customer try to join here let the mods know of the problem.
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14 Jul 2013
12:47:05pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Les,
Welcome this great site with a great group of folks.
Ross
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04:32:03pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Thank you all for the wonderful welcome! It's good to see many familiar faces. I'm looking forward to digging around here and getting to know some new folks as well.
-Les
Filling Spaces
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Welcome Les
This is a very nice friendly site
Lee
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Good to see you, Les.
Tedski
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10:02:14am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Well this is interesting: I got this email a few minutes ago. Aside from a personal salutation (omitted here), it is a generic call for comments about the forum; does it mean bidStart's forum is failing under this new management and system?
"My name is Dan and I am the bidStart Community Manager. I wanted to take a moment to introduce myself and speak with you openly about the community. The team here at bidStart are committed to making bidStart the collectibles marketplace and I am making it my personal goal to contact each and every user, both past and present, for their feedback.
Our goal is to ignite our community and bring everyone together in a profitable and enjoyable fashion. Over the last year, bidStart has experienced many changes, including to the bidStart forums. These changes have allowed us to analyse and track our user's activity and the discussions within our forums. Using this data I am able to see the direct correlation between our forums and website: busy forums create a busier site.
Having been a member of our Customer Support team I have seen the benefits of community engagement for the ultimate success of both the individual and the site as a whole. bidStart, as with any eCommerce platform, relies on an active community inside and outside of the site. Each mention and discussion grows our visibility exponentially and will bring more sellers and thus more buyers to bidStart.
Our top sellers and regular contributors use some clever tools which, I believe, highlight the efficacy of community engagement.
1. Use the "Stamps I am selling" category within the forum to promote your store (Even if it's only one item every two days) and keep it familiar to other users.
2. Regularly communicate with your community via newsletters (There is about a 25% improvement in sales after a newsletter).
3. Send out an email immediately after a purchase is made to thank the buyer. Very short, very simple.
4. Attach your inventory list to every sold item. This gives the buyer, who already likes you, more opportunity to purchase.
5. Review your dormant items and create a sale even if its only 5-10% off, put this in an email.....Short and sweet (As you have purchased from me before and to welcome new buyers I am offering a tremendous sale of "X" at 10% off in appreciation!)
6. Featured items help BUT, make it exceptional!
7. Feedback, feedback, feedback.
Above all I would say that getting your name out there should be your primary goal. Get involved in the forums, post some scans, get people talking with you and cater your items to their interests."
I'm tempted to reply simply "You want feedback? Go back and read the comments already posted on the forum when you made the changes that generated the mass exodus of old timers and regular posters." I think I will just ignore this generic plea.
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I do not know anything about BidStart. I was offered membership several years ago and after a few minutes peeking around decided it was not something I wanted to be involved with. It also took some time for me to decide to join the SOR culture and I can say so far that it too has had it's good, bad, and ugly, but mostly GOOD!!! My fears are that the people that caused BS to go south will migrate to SOR and continue with their bad habits and lack of respect. I applaud those that decided enough was enough and do something about it, come to SOR. Let us all be vigilant to not allow SOR to migrate in the same failing direction. The SOR support organization seems to be keeping a tight handle on the direction of SOR and are also to be heavily applauded for the work they do. It is well appreciated and they are not thanked often enough.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
To Peter: re-->I'm tempted to reply simply "You want feedback? Go back and read the comments already posted on the forum when you made the changes that generated the mass exodus of old timers and regular posters." I think I will just ignore this generic plea.
Peter
Please respond!
I did not get a similar plea.
rrr...
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01:29:23pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Ralph, I replied with a more lengthy email outlining all the issues.
DSC: The problem people were few and far between at bidStart; maybe one or two near the end were online bullies and harassed other members (and one was made a moderator!). But for the most part, the old bidStart forum policed itself very well; jerks, scam artists, and narrow minded rants of any persuasion were quickly addressed by members, let alone the moderator (at that time, only one). But after the change in format and introduction of a slew of newer members who did not share this older culture, the quality of posts and collegial atmosphere vaporized. Most of the folks who found their way here later, and some of those who had been here before (Michael numbers, for example) were stalwart posters and good folks overall. We could disagree, argue, or kid each other with no sense of personal attack, as evidenced later. Let's hope THOSE couple of people don't migrate over here!
I'm not looking to go back to their forum, although I continue to maintain a (now more limited) store there. This is my forum home (okay, stop groaning the rest of you!).
Cheers,
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
About a month ago I received a personal (not form email like yours) from Dan. Here is what he sent me:
"As you have always been very active on our forums I wanted to touch base with you.
I am slowly taking over the role of community relationship manager. This entails helping out sellers and those of our users who use the forums. My ultimate goal is to increase (dramatically) the forum users. This won't be a rushed process by any means as I want the sense of community to remain strong.
What I would like to know is your thoughts.
What will improve our forums?
More fun?
More education?
More games?
I don't want to address this directly in the forums as email is more personal and the forums will decline to categories and usernames. Neither of which are productive discussions even though they may be valid.
I would appreciate your help.
"
Here was my reply:
"I don't envy you your task. The bottom line is that the people who were the backbone of the Forum from the beginning with StampWants have left BidStart and gone elsewhere. A few still poke around, mostly because they still have stores here, but they are considering other alternatives. It is just a matter of time before they are gone too.
The VSC/BS merger debacle was the killer for BidStart. The VSC members did on BS just like they do on their own site. They attack anyone who is not like them. There was no consultation with the BS users about this, just an "in your face" here it is. That did not sit well with the BS users, and you have seen the results. Of course, the people using the site don't have to be consulted on anything. This is a commercial site, and we are not the owners. It is the owner's site to do with as they will. The owners have to pay the price for wrong decision making. The old adage, "Don't fix what isn't broken," has been ignored several times here over the years. The VSC/BS merger was the final slap for many.
Not only is participation in the Forums practically non-existant, but sales are drastically down. The lack of participation is not a problem in the Forum. It is a problem that people have with BidStart as a whole. When a building has been in an earthquake, it is torn down and something else gets built or else it just remains a vacant lot. BidStart has been in an earthquake. Its brand has become damaged and people don't enter it anymore. You will have to start from scratch, and rebuild the business (best to change the name too as BidStart is a tainted name along with Stanley Gibbons as relates to BidStart), but also realize that most of the original group of sellers and buyers probably won't be around to help build it back up.
"
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
As a follow-up, he sent me an email on August 9 saying that he was going to reply to my message. I never heard back from him.
As for BidStart, there are maybe four or so postings a day in the Forum, sometimes a little more. In August I had $86 in sales. My average monthly sales were around $400. My store had 25,000 items. I am down to just over 10,300, and that continues to drop. I have sent over 40 sales books to the APS, and send a new package of six to eight books to the APS every two weeks. I started at "A", and am going through the alphabet. I am currently in Germany (DDR). Some items remain in the store as they are either too large to fit in the sales books, or I have too large a quantity of a stamp. When I complete one book, I do go back to the countries I have already passed through and take more out to put in the books, so the "A" to where I am at constantly continues to be reduced along with the rest of my inventory.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Peter - I think you and I agree. A couple bad apples can spoil the barrel. I have no problem with refuges, I have problems with the "Rebels without a cause".
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
It wasn't a matter of bad refugees. It was bad actors being put in a position of authority and unilateral decisions to change the forum rules. As long as SOR keeps the rules of conduct the same, keeps the capable administrators in place, and continues to use feedback from the Community to guide updates to the site, SOR will do fine. Even the worst actors from BidStart could not have a bad impact here if they are not given a position of authority. Bullies would be quickly marginalized here, I hope. That doesn't mean we have to all agree all the time, and I've learned the most when my incorrect posts have been corrected by more knowledgeable philatelists. I really appreciate all the help I've gotten from kind folks here and BidStart/StampWants.
I'm not only thankful SOR is here, but if it weren't for the BidStart debacle I may have never met many delightful folks here. I hate to single out just one because I have had interesting conversations with several folks here, but it's been a blast conversing with Saleem. It is way too cool to have a conversation with a guy in India about International airmail covers franked with US Airmail stamps!
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Lars - I agree. I hope we can keep the bullies outside and at least if they get in, keep them at bay.
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07:54:08am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I received this reply from Dan, at bidStart; I think he is a quality guy who may be stuck in an awkward position with respect to what happened.
"I wanted to take a minute to thank you for your candid and honest response. I appreciate the time and effort it took for you to respond. There is little condolence for me in knowing that you continue to use bidStart but feel so let down by our staff that you no longer feel communication on the forums is warranted or welcomed. For that I do apologize. I can offer you one further option to perhaps amend the issues. I am currently scheduled for an interview with Mike Hall, the CEO of Stanley Gibbons. Instead of me asking questions that mean little or are superficial to the community I am offering every member of bidStart both past and present the opportunity to pose their questions to Mr. Hall. If you feel that you may be interested in this the discussion is available to you ( http://www.bidstart.com/community/forums/topic/54399/ask-the-ceo-a-question) and I welcome your responses. I know this may do little to assuage the feelings of wrong doing but I want you to know there is an opportunity to express your opinions and I will listen.
Thank You Again,
-Dan"
I thanked him for his reply, and the opportunity to ask the CEO of Stanley Gibbons questions, but declined to participate in the forum, even for this. I do have some site questions that I might pass along to someone else to ask.
Okay, no more of this from me; I just wanted to give closure to the latest stream I started.
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Peter - "Nice Job" as they say. Not many CEO's are going to listen or respond to questions from the peanut gallery. This cannot even be on the radar screen of Mike Hall. Tell Dan to tell Mike to call you personally. If he does, then I think you have their attention and may be well worth the time to converse. But, where do you think this will go if requested?
Yeh, kind of what I thought!!!!
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Peter,
I would agree that no response is needed. What's the point? Even if they agreed to go right back to doing things the way they were doing them 2 years ago, which means no more real names, no more VSC members in positions of authority, a return to the forum interface we could all understand - I won't go back and there are likely many members like me. It was the knowledgeable and broad-based community that kept me there, and most of them have moved on. Buyers like me always look first to buy from friends on our favorite forum before checking out eBay. I never check listings on BidStart any more. I had my profile deleted in protest of the real name debacle. That will obviously translate into fewer sales for the sellers and then they have to decide when to pull the plug. BidStart swallowed a poison pill. I'm glad SOR is here for refugees like me.
Lars
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
03 Sep 2013
11:26:52pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I agree with Lars, you can never go back. Micheal put it very well with the earthquake analogy. I also got the same e-mail from Dan- I answered him with I've moved on .....
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
OK, so what happened to those refugees from Bidstart ?
What was so bad when Gibbons took over ?
Just curious.
Londonbus1
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
05 Sep 2013
06:46:09am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Londonbus
Around the beginning of April things begin happening at Bidstart and the Virtual Stamp Club. Since then there have been many discussions here regarding the exodus of members from Bidstart to here. The most lengthy (and informative) of these discussions is here:
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=6796#43163
Hope this helps.
Bobby
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Londonbus,
For me, in a nutshell, it was the use of real names in the forums without notice. I considered that a serious breach of privacy. That meant my name would be associated with any comment I made or even disagreed with and could be found via search engine. If someone searches my name on the internet I do not want discussions that I thought were more private to show up in the results. I have clients that are rather opinionated and I don't want them to see my name next to a discussion about a volatile topic, nor do I want them to think I'm too busy with stamps to take care of their needs. It's all about perception.
I know you can find my real name and email address here, and that's OK, but to publish it in a forum posting makes it available to the search engines and I chose to manage my own online profile, thank you very much! The VSC gestapo came in and dictated that real names must be used to prevent bullying - which had never been a problem at BidStart - and then started bullying the folks in the forums.
I have moved on and found a new home, here. I do not know or care what becomes of BidStart at this point.
Lars
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06:01:54am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Londonbus: Just to add to what Lars said about real names, for some members it was more than just privacy but security; for some, their line of work meant they really could not have their real name publicly posted, and for others they did not want themselves publicly disclosed as having high value collections. But the main issue was how things were mishandled. Instead of addressing this in a constructive manner, or in some cases, addressing it at all when the member complained, administration ignored the arguments until it got to boiling point, and then only did an interim change, where some members got to display their handles in the open forum, but not all.
I have to say that I thought the bullying was not by VSC members, who were also thrown into this new situation, but due to two bidStart members who may or may not have been at VSC too. One became the very bully they decried as not wanting, and the other was the newly appointed manager of the community forum. Both were relatively quite in the bidStart forum until this change, then one turned on fellow members openly and the other failed to reign him in. The bully is still there and was promoted to moderator status at one point, but the failed forum manager seems to have gone the way of VSC.
I think this was all symptomatic of the administration's disregard for the very people who made that community forum. I also do not think this has anything to do with Stanley Gibbons per se, so it is meaningless to ask the CEO or anyone there about what happened. I place the blame entirely on Mark, the person who started StampWants, developed bidStart, and ran it with members' input and support up to that sudden change following the merger with SG. Those halcyon days are gone, finis, finito, kaput, pau.
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
As I see it from the posts here and other threads, those refugees are from the forum and NOT the Auction list. Is that correct ?
Are those members still using the auction ?
As someone who finds all Auctions forums a complete waste of time (except for Advertising) I guess I don't understand the troubles. What I mean is, why hang around there in the first place ?
Regarding VSC, I was a member there for a very short time but as the place resembled a boxing ring for the most part, I got out. Over the years since then, I have seen links to threads that looked more like the Syrian Civil War than a stamp forum. They had a good name once but their decline to a laughing stock was not surprising.
The philatelic content on other forums was much more interesting and relevant.
I do find the new-look set-up at Bidstart encouraging and comfortable. Just a pity about the thousands of Bogus stamps and sheets that crop up at every turn !!
Londonbus1
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
As others can attest to from their experiences, my own sales at BidStart (with one of the larger stores there) plummeted starting in April when the merger occurred. Sales actually up to that point were doing quite nicely. Since April, my sales have averaged less than $100 per month (my average prior to the VSC merger was around $400 per month). I sell alot of lower valued stamps, so monthly sales of $200 up to $600 and sometimes more per month was pretty amazing to me. I am slowly taking down my store at BidStart. Most of the stamps are being sent to the APS to sell. I had 25,000 stamps listed there. Today I have a little over 10,000.
For me, regarding sales, this was the fourth time that BidStart made drastic changes that affected sales. I slugged through the other changes as sales dropped and slowly recovered only to drop a little while later. I got tired of the roller coaster ride, and decided to avoid any more drop offs caused by the next modification to the site by bringing the stamps down and selling them through the APS. I'll let them do the selling and shipping for me. Saves me plenty of time! The commission isn't all that much more than paying BidStart and PayPal fees, plus the money goes to the APS and not PayPal or BidStart.
I sold through the APS back in the 1990s. It takes a year or longer to start getting payments, but when they come in, they keep on coming as long as you keep submitting more material, including resubmitting unsold material or even putting retired sales books on the clearance circuits. I went for almost two years getting a check for around $800 a month. That was quite nice.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Michael,
Just curious. So you sell through the APS circuit sales or online at the APS site? Isn't selling via circuit a very time consuming enterprise - hinging all those stamps to the books - or am I out of touch with how its done these days?
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06:20:59pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Londonbus: I have a store at bidStart and I, too, have little faith in auctions; I generally get one to two bids there and only if I start at 1c to 49c max per item. But contrary to Michael's experience, I must admit that I have had a steady stream of store buyers since April. However, I've noticed a trend in that most of these are overseas buyers, especially UK and Australia, and correspondingly, most sold items tend to be my British Commonwealth items. I've discontinued all my UN, all postcards, and most covers as they were just not going anywhere.
What was a shame with the community forum there was the ability to advertize your sales, especially any discounts or auctions you had coming up. It did generate more interest in items than not advertizing. But that is lost with the new forum for many of us who left and retain stores or auctions there.
Peter
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
As all have said...I too have moved on, and there is no going back. Closing the BS forum chapter.
I never sold on BS but I still buy some. However my purchases must be down 90% from before, and are confined to a handful of sellers.
I no longer look at their forum.
As far as the current BS Auctions and Stores, I do like some of the software capabilities they have, to track wish lists, to watch items, and to put items in the shopping cart until the total has reached a level adequate to process an order...and to do comparative shopping. The variety and scope of stamps offered is quite good, even if you discount the Poppe 700,000 items that artificially push the BS offering total. As of late, a number of British seller (including Stanley Gibbons ) have listed expensive items, possibly rare, at prices that are not for me and often well above catalog, so I suspect they are going after another type of collector, and may be discounting the low end.
But do we really need another ebay?
That being said, their software also has terrible defects that they seem unwilling to address! Conceptually, it reflects a narrow, insular, inflexible and personally defensive position that forces you constantly to work around the system, rather than with it. Wears you out, after a while...but then, so does ebay, or the other sales sites.
The BS auction site still provides a good avenue to acquire some low cost (as well as cheap) items that no one else seems to want to sell, or have.
My average per item purchase cost is well under $1. But as of late, there seems to be less used stamps, and more M, or MNH being offered.
I am trying to build my purchases here at SOR, but frankly I don't find the range or variety I need, and I find myself buying one 25c item and waiting months before I find another wanted item from the same seller. Sellers have been most accommodating!
A system to list a lot of low cost items, approval book like or "pick and choose" like will go a long way to up my purchases, for me.
At SOR, I have established some good trading partnership though, and this thrills me!
This forum is great. Thanks to all who continue to make it a success. And to make the "refugees" feel at home.
rrr...
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"Just curious. So you sell through the APS circuit sales or online at the APS site? Isn't selling via circuit a very time consuming enterprise - hinging all those stamps to the books - or am I out of touch with how its done these days?"
I am selling through the circuits. It takes time to put the books together, but I can get about 8 books completed in a week. That's between 1000 and 1500 stamps. Also, I don't need to take pictures of the stamps, edit the pictures, create listings and upload pictures. So, I think it takes less time to put the sales books together than it does to sell them on a web site. Also, I won't have to monitor for sales and then pack and ship the stamps. Overall much less work (and headaches) than selling myself.
Peter, I'm pretty certain that my BidStart sales from the past couple of months are directly affected by my store inventory being drawn down. This week I have had two sales. One is a $5 sale from Germany, and the other is from rrr. That's about how it runs now. I gave it a couple of months before I decided to sell through the APS.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Hi Michael, i am our club rep for the APS circuit..we receive a box of about 17 books each month that the members request. The members are willing to spend but lately the selections have not been that great..and sometimes they send a book with only one or two stamps left in it and i am afraid to bring it to the club..i know the uproar it would cause..i used to send in books in the early 90'ss but by the time they got finished with shipping,insurance and commission fees...i did not have much left !
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Phil, the APS had a different method of calculating fees back in the 1990s. I do agree with you that it could be a killer on some books. I actually lost money on some books that had low sales.
For instance, they used to charge insurance coverage for the original book value regardless of how much value was left in the book when they retired it. That was ridiculous, obviously. Now when they retire a book and return it, they insure it for the remaining value. Also, if you want to send a retired book to the closeout circuits, you don't pay any shipping or insurance fees. You just get a check when it sells.
I have been receiving circuits for over 20 years. The only time I saw a book with just a couple of stamps in it was when I was at the bottom of the list and others in the circuit had picked through it, or if it had valuable stamps in it. I suppose someone at the Sales Division could have mixed the wrong book in a circuit. One time I saw a couple of books in a circuit that were sent previously. When it was run with a ledger book, mistakes were common. I think with it being run with the help of a computer, it has gotten much better.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Phil, I guess the bottom line is that the sales aren't there on BidStart. At least I can get the stamps viewed by APS membership (larger customer base). I also belong to the Texas Philatelic Association and can submit for sale there and the Oklahoma Philatelic Association later if I want. Just better, more active customer bases than the environment on today's BidStart. For the fees, I don't think that after figuring the costs associated with selling on BidStart (PayPal fees, BidStart fees, packaging items needed to ship, time taken to post for sale online, going to the post office, etc.) that the APS fees are going to be that much different. Plus there's the time factor where I don't have to spend as much time selling and monitoring. I only have to make up the books and ship them to the APS where they do all the work from that point on.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"But do we really need another ebay?"
I certainly do, at least a relatively decent competitor. I never bought anything from BidStart because I have no interest in buying one item at a time unless it is a very high end item. Otherwise, there is no value. Might as well just bid on a collection and get decent quality stamps for 5% of CV.
As for the forum, I drop by once in a while. I don't quite understand the "I'll never go back" sentiment as I really don't care where I obtain and exchange information. I'll go wherever I need to for the entertainment/information value and hold no grudges if the software sucks or the personalities clash. If its a dry well though, there's no point in returning all that often.
Why the 4 or 5 different forums don't just unite into one community is beyond me, but I don't quite understand those type of dynamics-not being much of a social animal, I pretty much don't attach to one place or another. I consider the entire group of sites one community, albeit each with its own foibles and eccentricities (as well as strengths).
Although I would say, of the communities discussed SCF and StampoRama are the best I've found, with SCF the place for expertise (no offense) and StampoRama for community.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I think HungaryForStamps is right on. Competition is healthy and a better alternative to Ebay would be desirable. That "one" alternative does not exist, however, and one has to look in multiple places (I would mention the APS stamps store in this context, bought there for the first time last week.)
I also see nothing wrong with having several stamp forums. Many of us are also members elsewhere and why not?
The assessment that we are high on "community" and low on expertise hurts me a little, but is probably true too. I guess this isn't so bad, as Rome wasn't build in a day and we certainly have the potential to grow in expertise and quality of content over time. That is, if one subscribes to the notion that this would be a worthwhile goal "for people who love to talk about stamps" (see at top of page). The community and large membership base, we already have. I also wouldn't see a conflict with achieving high marks along both dimensions: great quality content and great community. But at times it appears there is some sentiment here that these two goals conflict.
However, overall I believe that Stamporama has overcome an extended period of "plateauing" or "slow change," and is on an accelerated upwards trajectory now. I am very excited, for instance, about the member newsletter that will become a new permanent feature soon again, thanks to Kelly and Ross. This will bring hopefully more members into the fold again, help the discussion board, help the auction, help finding trading partners etc.
Another major, and very recent, initiative -- of course -- was the major do-over of the discussion board to make it more supportive of philatelic discussions. These were technical changes only, of course, but having philatelic categories is a big thing, I believe. To recall the rationale for these changes: (1) if we put discussions on Washington-Franklin stamps in a category U.S. stamps (which heretofore did not exist), it is more likely that members will retrieve these discussions and will add to them at later times, (2) more descriptive titles of a discussion topic, for instance, "Funny slogan cancels of the world" as compared to "We don't say things like this any more ..." (to give a recent example), will invite more interest and more participation from members. Of course, considering the countless hours our moderators spend apologizing and explaining for what are really trivial adjustments to make this a better place, makes me at times wonder if the membership at large actually likes the new discussion board better than the old one. It was certainly conceived with a lot of good intentions and intensive discussions.
Then there is the new link list, which is without equals in its design. Again, some members (Mike (meostamps), Peter (cocollectibles) and Bobby (bobby1948)) stepped up, serve as link moderators, and took charge of one aspect of our website to make Stamporama better. And once you start listing, you don't want to miss anybody, so there is the articles area, managed by Ralph (Heyralph).
So yes, I am certain we will catch up on the content and expertise dimension, which some members perceive as lagging. Of course, at the same time it will be important not to alienate those members who are concerned that changes in general -- and initiatives to improve philatelic content in particular -- are a threat to the community.
Well just some random thoughts ...
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
What you say is all well and good, but misses the key point for some of us, especially those who vow never to go back. BidStart started posting real names without proper notice or authorization and thereby exposed the members to undesired search results.
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
12 Sep 2013
08:53:12am
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
I believe that we have great knowledge base here but is under utilized. I also believe that our members are more likely to do there own research before asking a question. I also visit several other forums and see a lot of 'Lazy questions' about identification of common stamps,but also you can sometime's become catalog blind. It has happened to us all.
Just look at the level of details provided by peterstamps on the U.S. Scott#554 as discussed in this thread:
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=7498#49149
As for "I'll never go back"- if you weren't there you wont understand what transpired.
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-09-12 09:50:51)
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
For the record I didn't say this forum was low on expertise. Just meant that SCF is my first choice for expertise without the accompanying slap in the face you might get elsewhere, Stamporama excluded of course. Threads here seem more community oriented which may simply be a misperception or a result of how I use the two sites.
On SCF, I just look at the list of top 100 active threads, which gets a bit of everything. Here I tend to drill down from the Discussions page, which means I have to visit different folders. I just may not be getting to the same types of threads. I think SCF is more active as well. Threads here seem to be more chit-chatty.
I don't mean any of this as a criticism of this forum. I like this forum as it is. Just relaying my experiences.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
"What you say is all well and good, but misses the key point for some of us, especially those who vow never to go back. BidStart started posting real names without proper notice or authorization and thereby exposed the members to undesired search results."
I understand what happened. Just don't understand the grudge part. Redemption seems possible, especially an online site that can be visited and utilized passively so "never" wouldn't be in my voabulary. I mean, reading a few posts and posting a few responses seems pretty tame to me, but what do I know. I guess if you want to post in anonymity that's a legitimate concern there, but BidStart can't expect to meet the Ebay challenge without some sort of transparency, can they? But it was wrong to change without at least some warning.
I guess I am more tolerant towards companies (than individuals) as they are vastly different than people and many times struggle to find the best approach: a few bad apples can spoil the corporate pie, but hopefully someone sane steps in at some point and sets things right. That said, I do hate the ethos of some corporations, such as Apple, that were spoiled from the top, and will not go back any time soon (at least until it completes a purge of the ethos of its past), so I guess I'm a hypocrite.
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03:06:04pm
re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Michael 78651: What are the APS fees & costs involved with sales books? Thanks, Ted.
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re: Is this the bidstart refugee camp?
Ted, the only requirement, aside from being an APS member, is that to sell through the circuits you have to use the APS sales books. To mount the stamps in the books, you can use whatever mounts you want. I use hinges, stock cards, glassines, black mounts, and the pocket mounts (by the Washington Press - White Ace people) that you can buy from the APS.
Here is a link to the APS web site and the information relating to selling through the sales circuits:
http://stamps.org/How-to-Sell
One thing I see missing from the web page is the option a seller has to send a book about to be retired to the "Closeout" circuits. A seller can save on the retired book costs by doing this and the book gets sold.
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