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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

 

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michael78651

16 Apr 2013
04:00:12pm
Stanley Gibbons is continuing its acquisitions of philatelic web sites as evidenced by this announcement:

"BidStart and The Virtual Stamp Club (VSC) are excited to announce that they are joining forces in the next couple of weeks, following the recent acquisition of VSC by bidStart. We intend to bring our community closer together, with better content that aims to enrich and engage us all.

VSC founder and owner Lloyd de Vries joins bidStart immediately as our new Head of Community. Lloyd will work for bidStart on a permanent basis, and will be able to devote more time to the philatelic community, both for the combined message board and on the Web."

The discussion forums on both web sites will be merged on April 22.

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

16 Apr 2013
08:15:46pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Wow, it is always the Virtual Stamp Club that I compare Stamporama to. When you check the Google searches it is always Stamporama and the Virtual Stamp Club that are one and two, changing order depending on the day. Congratulations to the VSC.

Tim

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

17 Apr 2013
06:19:09am

Auctions
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tim, lets incorporate and go public. IPO at $38 a share?

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

17 Apr 2013
07:55:25am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Nah, then we would have to provide a service.

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

17 Apr 2013
12:51:03pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

As long at it is not a postal service!

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
09:45:10am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

After going through the new Forums on BS/VSC, I can say that I like the SOR Discussion Boards better.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

23 Apr 2013
10:23:11am

Auctions
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

i liked ours better before we implemented some changes; now I really think they are much better. Lots of good discussions on VSC, but ours are navigable as well as informational.

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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khj
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23 Apr 2013
01:05:20pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Well, so far this has not been a good month for some of the other stamp forums.

The attempted incorporation of VSC into the BS Forum has generated a lot of problems. There was a huge split at VSC over this. VSC members who went over to BS have given mixed reviews. Some of the VSC members who tried out the new redesigned BS Forum have already decided they will not be returning to the BS Forum. At least long-time BS Forum member has already stated that he will not be participating in the BS Forum any more because the usernames have been replaced by the real names, and the real names are now posted alongside every single post (old or new).

Change rarely comes easily. I must commend the administrators/moderators of Stamporama. I had read with interest the many comments/suggestions made prior to the recent webpage changes at this website. While there were clearly a variety of opinions, the decisions were not made ahead of time, but after discussion and feedback from forum members. You can't make everybody happy, but at least giving members a time to be heard BEFORE the decision is made, does mean a lot. It makes things genuine, and not just paying "lip-service".

Again, my commendation to the administrators/moderators AND the members of Stamporama. I am impressed.

Hopefully, I'll be able to spend a little more time here at Stamporama.

k

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
03:15:54pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I agree with the above post. While there was heated debate here on suggested changes to SOR, at least people could state their opinions and their wants. When the membership has a say, then the membership can claim ownership in how the site operates, and will be more accepting of the overall changes made and implemented even if they didn't like some of them. AT LEAST THEY HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR POINT AND/OR MAKE SUGGESTIONS. On BidStart, this is the second time users have had major changes thrown in their faces and have been told to like it, because several bigshots decided that is the correct way to go. They forget that BidStart is not a club like SOR. It is a commercial site. The users, particularly the sellers, bay the bills on BidStart.

Dave, when I made my short comment on the two Forums (BS vs SOR), I wasn't referring to the content and information being posted in the forums. Both have content that runs from mediocre to excellent. I was referring to how the boards function and their usability. For BidStart, the changes are like going from Word to WordPad. BS administration has told us that this is a good thing. Oh well......

Funny how BidStart has always said that it wants to be a standout and different from what is already out there. As time passes, it certainly has become more and more like eBay, and now it's trying to look like Facebook.

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
03:19:32pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

So I am not misunderstood on my comments regarding the changes recently made on BidStart, the changes were only made to the Forum discussion boards, not to the selling portion of the site.

It has been said that changes to the selling portion of the site are coming next. No one knows what those are.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

23 Apr 2013
03:45:48pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

There is an old saying, often attributed to John F. Kennedy in error because he repeated it, that applies to my feelings about change;


" .... If something is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change it. ...."

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
michael78651

23 Apr 2013
04:19:27pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I don't have problem with change. I have a problem with change thrust upon people without input.

Heck, the new fearless leader of the Forums over at Bidstart, the best he has done amid all the controversy is write new posts about new stamp issues. No replies and only a few views. If that is what the future of the BS Forums is going to be...well, I have already told people who have vented to me about all the mess over there that there is a web site called Stamporama. Good time to go over there and do some recruiting for here.

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drmicro68
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23 Apr 2013
08:44:13pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Prior to last Monday, I only visited SOR and VSC--different interfaces & people, but mostly good posts & SOR is often a lot of fun, while VSC had a different enough slant to keep my interest. I had never tried the BidStart forums and am not a fan of Stamp Community Family (SCF). The 'new' BidStart/VSC looks suspiciously like SCF. And the former VSC (now called 'The Stamp Forum'--some genius at Delphi came up with that) is rife with dissension and little information. I genuinely dislike the interface at the new VSC (I have been accused of not liking facebook, but if fb looked & felt like the BidStart/VSC I'd have nothing to do with it either) and SCF (maybe because I never used it before) looks like a morass, not an inviting forum. Thankful that SOR continues as it has (and yes, I do like the changes altho' I wasn't sure at first). Not sure what I'm going to do wrt VSC, The Stamp Forum or SCF. Ptooey.
Roger

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

23 Apr 2013
09:53:26pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Charlie wrote:

"There is an old saying, often attributed to John F. Kennedy in error because he repeated it, that applies to my feelings about change;


" .... If something is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change it. ....""




Amen, Charlie!!!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

24 Apr 2013
01:07:18am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy has stalled positive developments at Stamporama for many years. We would still be using external picture hosting services today, not being able to directly upload pictures to discussions or our auction. I cannot even begin to enumerate the positive infrastructure developments since 2007 when I joined Stamporama. We now have a discussion board that has caught up with, and surpassed, the functionality of other internet stamps clubs.

Now that our infrastructure is competitive, we have a foundation to build on. A "vision" for Stamporama that idealizes the status quo (aka no change) or action only if something is “broken,” is depressing. My vision -- given the enormous potential of our human capital, our volunteers and a core of contributing members, as well as our infrastructure –- must be a vision of growth: To create a flourishing community that attracts stamp collectors from novice to expert to our discussion board and excellent sellers to our member auction.

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
06:41:50am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Change, as long as it moves forward, and not backward.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

24 Apr 2013
08:41:14am

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

the two posters above, Arno and Michael, reflect traits I find in SOR and that deserve mention.

Michael noted that enormous change was thrust upon the VSC community and reported fait accomplit. I believe he means to contrast the approach we take here.

Having worked with Arno on this latest DB restructuring, he doesn't move an inch without having heard all comments and tried to create consensus, if not achieve unanimity.

This all occurs under an umbrella, held by Tim, in which all opinions are solicited and welcomed.

Not everything we do is welcomed, and I, in particular, have generated enormous push back for some of the things I've championed. But even when members roll their eyes, they mostly do it respectfully....mostly.

I applaud the work we do here. We have met our allies, and they are us....mostly. Apologies to Commodore Perry and Walt Kelly.

David

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

24 Apr 2013
05:27:56pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Wow, I can't believe I just had to defend SORs Discussion Board on bidStart. Someone was complaining it was too difficult to navigate. Yikes!!!

Bob

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

24 Apr 2013
06:01:48pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Come on, Bob! Getting that little arrow on top of the proper button, then having to use your index finger to click on it - maybe it's easy for you, but for the rest of us it is Hell!

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

24 Apr 2013
07:06:51pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

So, I love the fact that you guys are making positive comparisons between SOR and Bidstart, but I notice that many of you have tried out the new Bidstart discussion board. I would like to know what you like about it. There is alway good things and bad things about every thing. You have told us what you don't like about Bidstart, what do you like about it.

Regards ... Tim

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
07:37:52pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I like how the sales portion of the site works. I hope that doesn't get screwed up.

As for the discussion area, I really don't like any of it. The old BidStart forums was easy to use and had plenty of attributes to permit someone to create proper responses. In the new version, you can't go directly to the posts you haven't read, formatting of text is at a bare minimum, can't mark unread posts as read (all posts in the forums are unread), posts are listed from oldest to newest requiring scrolling and hopping through several pages, navigation is very time consuming, sloppy and requires much scrolling and clicking through several pages, images inserted into a posting drop to the bottom of the post, no easy way to send someone a private message if they have not posted in the forum, no documentation to help people efficiently use the new forums. There is more. The attributes that existed in the old version should have been carried over to the new one, not tossed out to make a minimized version.

I will not spend as much time in the forums there like I used to. That'll give me more time to post here.

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

24 Apr 2013
07:46:10pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thanks Michael.

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

24 Apr 2013
07:53:36pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tim Auld:

"Rhinelander" is bang on key with his comments (above) concerning
"if it ain't broken, don't fix it". His vision of how Stamporama functions,
and how it should continue to do so, is one in which ideas will flourish
and dynamic change will continue to occur within our club.

My well-deserved reputation as a digital-age dinosaur is based on my
resistance to "alterations" masquerading as change: the cosmetic surgery;
this season's fashion with more buttons; the flavour-of-the-moment stuff;
the new, improved model with brighter hubcaps. Anyone can make it different,
I want it better.

I believe we in Stamporama should march on the road that Arno's travelling
to the promised land. If there are features in VSC and UpStart that
hold promise for us, then let's check 'em out as you suggest.

John Derry


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khj
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24 Apr 2013
07:54:45pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Do not mistake this as a suggestion to try out the new BS Forum, but if you do...

I would strongly suggest to wait at least 1-2 months until they get the new Forum software up to the level of Primitive. As Michael##### noted, the current change is like going from Word to WordPad (and he is being generous in that comment). They dumped a pretty good phpBB3 software and installed a home-brewed concoction. It will be awhile before the functionality (or lack of) will not cause you to tear out hair.

Also, the environment there is currently semi-caustic. That will also take awhile to blow over, if it does at all.

If you go now, you may not get a fair snapshot. I know a lot of visitors who have left very disappointed, thinking the current BS Forum "software" is what has always been in place -- and that is not true. There used to be very good software installed, but that has been surprisingly dumped.

Finally, be advised that if you register there, they now have a new requirement that your full real name (not your userID) will be attached to every post. The privacy policy has also been cited by the administrators, which basically is indirectly saying that they reserve the right to post/distribute any information about you they have collected -- past, present, or future (within the limits of the law, of course).

Therefore, if you visit, do so at the right time and with a proper understanding.

Not trying to cause trouble, just a suggestion. If admin/mods feel this post is inappropriate, I will not be upset at all if this post gets deleted.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

24 Apr 2013
08:21:31pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael said:

"I will not spend as much time in the forums there like I used to. That'll give me more time to post here"


God, help us!

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

24 Apr 2013
08:23:14pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thank you Kim and slow down John. Thank you both for your responses. I love what we have here, but I'm always open to learn and improve. I wasn't proposing changing anything, but am alway open for ideas for the future. If you compared the two sites you'd think I like this buy I don't like that. Together will make Stamporama the best site we can.

Best regards ... Tim.

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
08:25:17pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

KHJ is right, and he cites what the administration at BS has stated in the Forums. They claim it was done for "unity" and to prevent "bullying". They created a big schism instead.

How does saying the changes in the BS Forums are like going from Word to a word processor for the Commodore 64?

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
08:27:55pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Bobby, that's why I added that last little tidbit in my message. I knew someone would have a come back to it!

That was the first time in three days that I have laughed reading posts.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

24 Apr 2013
08:33:52pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Khj, why would anyone delete your post? Last I heard free speech was still recognized here. The time comes when it isn't, or when posts on this board are censored (other than for profanity or libelous accusations), that is when I'll yell, scream and kick until given the boot! With the folk I have met here since I joined in late January of this year, I'd say that is as close to impossible as you can come! Agree, disagree, complain, whine all you want, as long as you respect the rights of others, yours will be defended to my dying breath.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

24 Apr 2013
08:36:09pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I'm not fond of the new Discussion Board at bidStart but I will wait a bit and see what shakes out. It definitely needs improvement. There is so much complaining over there I feel my complaints will be lost in the shuffle. Perhaps in a month or two they will have their act together.

Bob

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

24 Apr 2013
08:40:28pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Personally, I prefer posts that use a real name and often,
(When I remember to type it in)
end my posts;

Charlie Jensen,
Lecanto, Florida.

It just seems to me that over time and many posts in different forums civility is enhanced when the poster is not concealed behind some fanciful "Nom de plume."
That is a subjective opinion unsupported by any real research or tabulation.
I started to use my initials and birth date some 15 or 16 years ago when I signed onto USENET through a "WEB-TV" connection as it seemed to be the way things were being done then. Were I doing that all over today I am quite sure I would just use my given name.


Charlie Jensen,
Lecanto, Florida.

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khj
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24 Apr 2013
08:47:57pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

"How does saying the changes in the BS Forums are like going from Word to a word processor for the Commodore 64?"



I would say you just insulted the Commodore 64 software comparing it to the current BS Forum software!

But seriously, I have no doubt that the software will improve. It needs time. Quite frankly, there's almost nothing good about the current software except that the groups/communities functions have been incorporated (they had been suddenly disabled in the phpBB3 software several years ago). I would say about 90% of the current software framework is either completely non-functional or not functioning properly. This is not even considering a whole list of basic features that are completely absent.

If you want a good taste of potential features to consider, again I would suggest waiting at least 1-2 months. Otherwise, I honestly believe you will wasting your time and/or get a misleading snapshot of the BS Forum.
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khj
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24 Apr 2013
09:10:28pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Regarding the suggestion that we post our real names and locations -- yes, it's nice to know the real person you interacting with. However...

There are various security issues, including stalking, that some of us have to deal with in our work. I have no problems revealing my name and location to those I personally know or interact with. But I can't change what I do, and if there is a requirement that my name and location be identified with every post, then I can only respect the requirements of a forum and leave.

The problem at BS was that for a period of 2 days, a unilateral decision was implemented by administration to show the full real name with every post. This was done without warning. The real problem was this was done retroactively to ALL previous posts. I suddenly found myself with 6000+ hits on google, when originally I was 1 or 2 out of several tens of thousands. Previously, unless you already knew a certain threshold of basic information about me, you were unlikely to find me just by using my userID. Suddenly, the BS Forum provided the necessary information and a large number of google hits to make things easier to locate me. This caused a major security issue for my organization. I hadn't even thought about my stalking problem until another poster (who also left) mentioned it.

I understand that it's nice to know who someone really is and where they're at. In general, I don't have any problems revealing this information to those who ask (Michael##### can attest to that). The problem I ran into was having this information suddenly posted on the internet in large quantities without my knowledge and without any warning.

I do want to point out that BS Forum has reverted the old posts back to original userIDs after my private protest (and later a single posted protest). I did thank the BS Forum admin for that. But unfortunately, the damage may already have been done. Also, they made it clear that they do have the right to post the real names. Since my trust level is down to zero, I am preparing for the real possibility that it may happen again.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted people to understand that some of us have valid reasons for not publicly posting our full names and locations all the time.

Kim

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

24 Apr 2013
09:34:10pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Kim,
I promise you, we won't be publishing everyone's real name.

You really don't need it though. We all know who everyone is. New members catch on quickly. I support the current approach to keep our real names private along with our email addresses. It is easy enough for people to harvest information off the internet without us helping them.

Regards ... Tim.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

24 Apr 2013
10:14:35pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Yes the real problem isn't here but in forums in general. Members have access to the membership base so it is not that difficult to know who is chatting.

I just find many of what I call fanciful pseudonyms somewhat silly, and have occasionally noticed in some forums behavior that I do not think a poster would employ were his, or possibly her, name attached.

Charlie

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
khj
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24 Apr 2013
10:16:30pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thank you, Tim!

I agree, there's more than enough info online to find most people fairly easily. I'm glad that you made the point (that I cannot seem to get across to the powers that be elsewhere):

"...without us helping them."



Also, I really don't have a problem with my full first name being shown, obviously; I just get lazy sometimes and just put "k".

-- Kim (aka khj, aka k)

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khj
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24 Apr 2013
10:30:13pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

cdj1222,

I agree that there is misbehavior in some forums. The great majority of times, reporting it to admin/mods solves the problem and an understanding is reached. Worst case, that person is expelled.

When admin/mods aren't proactive, that forum tends to get really messy. I typically don't hang around those forums long.

I would say things are handled pretty well here. Discussions involving disagreements are pretty civil here. I haven't been here that long or that often, but I'm pretty sure I'm probably the meanest person on SOR.

k

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

24 Apr 2013
11:18:58pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Kim,
If it helps, I have absolutely no idea who you are, in a good way of course. Although it seems I'm in the minority there.

I've never googled anyone on any DB that I participate in. I don't see the point. I love when people share personal stories and history and I've made many friends here but I certainly don't need to know everyone's vital information.

I'm also a member at BS. I clearly don't care if people know my last name since its in my username but I understand why people would feel differently. I think the admin there is going way too far by making a change like posting everyone's real names without input or warning. There's simply no need for it. I also have many of the same complaints that others have so we'll see if things improve or not.

Tim,
Before the changes at BS, I liked their forum but have always liked this one better. There's was easy to navigate, but so is this one. There's allowed you to go to your first unread post in a thread but here it happens automatically. I find the search feature for members here is much easier than there but that could be because I haven't played with theirs enough. I really never thought anything they did was superior to what is done here. I've also tried other stamp DB's and I've always found that SOR is far superior. So, once again, kudos for doing such a fabulous job!

Lisa

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

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khj
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24 Apr 2013
11:29:46pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Yes, Lisa, I did see you over at BS. You did very very well. I was tied down, so I didn't post much recently. But I did drop in and observe in the threads you were participating in. In the past when I read your posts here, I was very encouraged and refreshed by your excitement as you delved into this hobby.

Yes, a lot of long time collectors know each other already from other places, and recognize each other pretty readily even if not using the same username.

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society

25 Apr 2013
12:41:16am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I would be interested to learn if Ken, our secretary, currently experiences a spike in member applications. It does not really appear so. I somehow think this might be a good sign, indicating that folks active on these other forums are trying to work it out. Let’s not be tempted into schadenfreude. Let’s also go easy on misplaced self-congratulations. I am not a member on any of these forums, but wish our honored competition well. I hope they will all overcome the current turmoil. Strife does not help the hobby.

As for the topic of change on Stamporama, just by reading what members request in additional functionality, it appears the heavy lifting is done. All the major functions of a discussion board, reading and answering posts, uploading pictures, keeping track of what has already been read and what is new, a search function etc., are easy to use. I like our simple, functional look.

The real areas of change are much more difficult to address than changes in the infrastructure. We have made great strides on the infrastructure front. We have a really good product. Now, we need to take it to the market. The next set of “changes” will be much harder: Increasing the attractiveness of the forum (and the member auction), not by adding more gimmicks, but by developing a more active member base and quality content. It hurts me (not really, but it still stinks) that the best answer we had for good questions at times was to tell the person to re-post the question on the such-and-such forum.


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khj
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25 Apr 2013
12:52:51am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I will try to spend more time here, and contribute what I can to answering questions.

I certainly have learned things here, and I've been collecting for 4 decades!

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michael78651

25 Apr 2013
12:55:53am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Lisa, the old Forum at BidStart had a quick click function to get directly to the unread posts. It was a right click on the "COMMUNITY" link. It doesn't work anymore.

I just read an interesting post at BS. Lloyd stated that he is often lost in the new forums. When he can't figure something out he goes to the admin. He stated that often admin doesn't know how something is supposed to work and can't answer his question.

Tim, when you make programming changes, do you know how things are supposed to work? I know you do, and you can help anyone who asks for help about the change as well. That comment was not surprising, but unbelievable at how poor the programming efforts have become over there. Now I really am concerned that the re-programming of the selling part of the site is going to blow up, because they won't know what they did.

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khj
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25 Apr 2013
01:06:16am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

For your sake Michael##### and the sake of my seller friends on BS, I hope they actually complete a beta testing/correction of any software changes on the market side BEFORE they force everybody to use the new software. Right now, all the BS Forum participants are beta testers. I had originally thought beta testing was going to be completed before the rollout on April 22 (not to mention expected the software programming to have been completed before the announced rollout date of April 22). Boy, did we all get a surprise!

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michael78651

25 Apr 2013
05:26:03pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The instituted a fix today that sends you now to the first unread post in a topic. They took a step to catch up with the SOR Discussion Board! LMFAO

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

25 Apr 2013
06:30:51pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The issue of security is a real one, because forums were linked to transaction information which were previously masked by the voluntary use of pseudonym. Just for those interested I emailed the following letter to management at BS. Trust is an acquired commodity. Loosing it is hard to recover from. I no longer post on BS and am debating whether to pull all my previous posts.
COPY: (edited my name out)

Re: My Last posts on BS message board forum
Hi Mark:
I am sending you an email version of my last posts on the forum, which I have now deleted. I don't know if you saw them and plan to address them further, but as far as I am concerned, these are serious matters. I will not post anymore on the forum under my full name, because the security risks I describe far outweigh the benefits.
I still love BS and will continue to purchase here, but unfortunately for me, I have lost the congenial and friendly family I had found in the forums. I will just migrate elsewhere for this, which is too bad.
I know you have your plate full, and I know these decisions are not easy. Not sure if you are being pushed by your new management? But it seems you are not hearing us (on this issue).
As I mentioned before, NextDoor, a neighborhood start up ran into similar difficulties when it did not take into account or disregarded the real safety concerns of its membership, because of its own vision. Safety covers a wide spectrum of situations, no two alike. It backed out, removed a full blown new release introduction, modified it, did more beta testing, and finally is reintroducing it in a form that met most of the objections of the large percentage of its membership that found it violated its trust on the issue of security. This was courageous. This also told loudly all members that they really cared and enhanced their position with all. You should talk to Nirav Tolia, CEO, Nextdoor. While it is a different product and situation, I think his experience in this related matter may be illuminating to you in your current situation. I encourage you to give him a phone call, ceo to ceo.
I wish you all the best. Regards,
xxxxxxxx (rrraphy)
(President Golden Gate Stamp Club, SF CA)

COPY OF LAST 2 POSTS:
xxxxxxxx
Jim Coolbaugh said:Howdi! As an observer of the various feelings and opinions on the names topic, it would seem to me the best alternative would be an option on the profile that allowed either a real or pseudo name to be used...choice! What a novel idea! I think most of us feel that our names/data are far more publicly available already than we'd like. But there are others who don't seem to care...or don't know any better.


>>@Jim...Thanks

Security sensitivities vary by region, country, state, city and neighborhood. If one feels secure at putting photo and real name publicly for all to see, please accept that in someone else's world it is not acceptable, and even dangerous. So user's choice is clearly mandated. Management already has (securely I assume) all relevant information on name, address, etc... so it is trying to impose its own perception here and is not being sensitive to others, in what is an unrestricted public forum.
Many of us trade hundreds of dollars worth of stamps via the mail. We don't want to make ourselves potential targets. When I buy something, I do it with a pseudonym, so that personal information is masked, except to the other party. And now you are putting it out for all to easily find out by simple cross correlation it could escalate. You are giving more tools to the large body of predators who prey on uninformed or trusting web users. Are we just waiting for an accident to happen? Are you willing to assume the risk too? If your forums were not connected to our transactions, and profiles that would be less serious...but they are! But irrespective of this, it should be my decision, not yours, and not retroactively. Thanks for listening, Mark. I know you have in the past.
xxxxxxxxx

436 posts 112092

April 24, 2013 2:29 PM PDT
Quote Edit Delete

How is it easily used by anyone..... intending on whatever.... by simple cross-correlation well well....On my profile you also post a link to my transaction feedback. Now my feedback is pseudonym keyed, tied to my purchases....voila!
So now the PRIVATE pseudonym, under which I have done business HERE for a number of years is PUBLICLY associated with my real name! I hope you see and appreciate the severity of this BREACH OF TRUST and the SECURITY liability you and SG are now taking on. It is NOT about congenial atmosphere, it is about RISKS you are putting your client base under. I would ask your lawyer's opinion before going on any further with this approach.

--->>> from my profile here......FEEDBACK FOR rrraphy (6801), et voila..it is out there for all to put 2+2. with my real name. Again, I am posting this because it is important. And again, I will not be leaving it visible for more than 24 hours for security reasons. Thanks for you comprehension.
This post was edited by xxxxxx at April 24, 2013 2:31 PM PDT

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purrfin2
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439

26 Apr 2013
04:35:11pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Looks like I'm also going to be here more than BS. I have tried really hard to learn how to navigate around and I'm not doing so well. The full name also bothers me to an extent. Maybe if the used our first name and last initial it wouldn't have smacked us so hard. But to basically tell us, this is how it is and that's life get over it was rather hard to take. I remember when BS was SW, suggestions to make it a better site was taken to heart and all suggestions were listened to. But not this time. Also, if I could vent a little bit, I don't feel like I'm on BS forum, I feel like I'm on Virtual forum.

So here I'm with my friends.........

Luree

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

26 Apr 2013
05:01:33pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Luree and Welcome,
Make sure you introduce yourself in the " Member Introduction" forum. Lots of nice folks here to welcome you!!!!!
The new style of management at BS leave's a lot to look forward to. I will continue to have a store but that's about it. I have been and will continue to bite my lip. I guess there is no philatelic utopia, but we where darn close for a while there..
Also rrraphy -I'm betting you have gotten no reply and if you did it was a canned response.

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purrfin2
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439

26 Apr 2013
05:06:14pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I sorta did introduce myself when I first joined a couple months ago. But I haven't been very active over here. Popped in and lurked but didn't say much. In time I will become a chatty-Kathy, promise you that!

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khj
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26 Apr 2013
06:08:17pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Well then, welcome back, Luree!

k

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purrfin2
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439

26 Apr 2013
06:15:34pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thanks K, missed seeing you so I had to run you down over here......JK!

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

26 Apr 2013
06:25:27pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I did get a response. It did not satisfy me, so I am out of their forum for good. Just need to take my photo/avatar out, and delete the last posts. Not worth spending any more time.
For those interested, this is the response I got(1), and further down my last response(2):
(1) ""Hi Ralph,

I've seen your message in our forums, as well as your most recent message here. We appreciate all of the comments and suggestions we get which includes when a member may voice an opinion different than ours. However, just because we don't make changes that you propose does not mean we're ignoring you.

I certainly understand your position on the use of real names. As you've pointed out, if someone had malicious intent, and they want to determine your address, they now have the possibility that from your username on bidStart, they could go to our community area, and attempt to locate your real name. From there, they could go to Google, and with a significant amount of effort, they may possibly be able to obtain your address - which they could use for malicious intent knowing that you own stamps of value, and where you live. Even though there is a very slim chance someone could do this, I do understand the concern that before there was no chance, and now there is a slim chance.

This was certainly something we considered. However, one thing to note is that if someone had malicious intent, and wanted to obtain your address, they would never need to go through this lengthy process. Anyone, at any time, would simply need to create an account on bidStart, and purchase an item from you (regardless of if they paid for it), and instantly be given not just your full name, but your email address, and your address. So it's just something to think about.

Again, if you have a different opinion on your own security, we certainly respect that. However, I certainly hope that you reconsider, and continue to be an active member of our community. While it may not have been easy to notice, since the launch of our new community, even excluding any negative comments, activity has been up very significantly. This is something we believe will continue it to grow substantially, and would certainly like you to be a part of.""

(2)""Thanks for the comments but as far as I am concerned it does not address my perception of heightened risk. I will continue to buy on BS, but I will not return to post on the forum as long as my real name is associated with it. You know who I am, and if your excuse is moderating bullies, you have all the tools. Talking of bullies, I sure would like you or someone to moderate the real bullies you now have using their full names, something that never happened before.
I also don't sell on BS so your example is not relevant.
Mark, I know you mean well, and you try hard, but for me, I felt protected by the privacy afforded on BS forums. I have removed my recent posts, those associated with my name, not my pseudonym. I would now ask that you remove any public reference to my full name. If it is possible, you can leave all prior posts. If not, please delete those as well. I will do business under my pseudonym, just like I do on ebay. Thanks
Rrraphy ""

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michael78651

26 Apr 2013
10:01:16pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Luree!

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khj
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26 Apr 2013
11:15:51pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

"so I had to run you down over here"


Well, purrfin2, it's a good thing this cat has 9 lives!

k
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purrfin2
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439

27 Apr 2013
01:27:17pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hey Cuz Michael!

K, I'm so glad you have many more lives for me to run you down, but it didn't hurt, did it?

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khj
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27 Apr 2013
02:11:44pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

When I've had a few Dr. Pepper's, I don't feel a thing...

k

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tooler
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27 Apr 2013
04:23:09pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I see a lot of familiar names here from bidStart (StampWants when I joined. I haven't been here very long and am still trying to figure out how things work.

The forums on bidStart are a mess. Nothing close to what it was. It looks to me like the owner of VSC guit and brought all his followers over and are making bidStart into the new VSC.
I have gone to VSC on a few occasions, and found it wasn't for me. bidStart was more easy to use, to me anyway.

I'm not that computer savvy so things have to be simple. (like me) I hope I get the hang of StampoRama because it looks like I will enjoy being here, especially now that so many XbidStarters are here.

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
07:02:10pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Howdy, Tooler!

Stamporama is a relatively easy web site to use. The web wizard works wonders here. He even has a list of potential and in-progress enhancement projects that have been requested and discussed, and provides the status of the projects. Just remember the ol' days of StampWants, and then you can relax here at SOR.

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tedlawrence

27 Apr 2013
10:38:34pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Michael#'s: I have noticed that during the last week or so. that I have only had a couple of lookers. at my store at b/s.

There have been a million messages in the forums, but it appears that not much is going on, in buying & selling over there.

Maybe this will be temporary until things cool down over there. Hopefully it's not a situation where the big changes have permanently chased away many buyers. Ted.

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

27 Apr 2013
10:48:47pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tedski,
There is VSC member states that "Most of us(VSC Memebrs) do not give a hoot about the BS bottom line. not word for word but close.
They are not there to purchase just gloat and sling insults.
I dont know if I'm allowed to post a link to that forum and do not wish to violate any rules.
Ross

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
10:49:36pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Don't know what's going to happen over there in the long run. If it keeps on like it has been, I pretty much won't care.

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
11:00:47pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Ross, I wouldn't. Why publicize those jerks. Plus, if you say something against them, they lock the post. Yet, they can say all they want against us and the site, and the post remains open until a BidStart member replies.

The new people in the administration from VSC won't even promote sales on the site that is paying them. One even touts how he sells elsewhere, and gets all upset when called out for the conflict of interest.

Stanley Gibbons sure has spent alot of money (over $1 million) to buy that site. Their employees sure are taking advantage of all that. I wonder what Gibbons would say if they were told about the goings on there? Remember, Mark is not the owner of that site anymore. Lloyd doesn't own VSC anymore. They are just employees of Gibbons.

Bottom line is that they will get what they deserve, whatever that is.

Ted, I would agree that sales have dropped. They were doing all right until the changeover. At the current pace, sales site-wide look to end the month around 10% off from March.

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

28 Apr 2013
08:09:18am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael,
Over night they have removed several comments and locked the topic...I dont ever remember that happening in the almost 7 years I was there. Then threaten to remove us.
Ross

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

28 Apr 2013
05:56:49pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

My suggestion. Invite personally those you care about to come and join us here. I have and I will continue to do so..and the sooner the better. This is my suggestion to all who have migrated here recently. Like me, many may not even be aware of StampoRama. Thanks Michael G. for suggesting it.
To avoid censorship on BS, I ask (via instant message) for a private email, and then broach the topic. I no longer post on BS and I no longer read the forum, so your impressions are interesting....in a At Wits Endcuriosity kind of way, and I am saddened for those who spent so much time building the old SW.
I will continue to buy there...but less and I will no longer buy from dealers who have... well you know what I mean.
But I am looking to gradually move my business elsewhere. If auctions, trading and sales really take off here, I may even list some of my material. Looking forward to testing the system as a buyer first. rrr...

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tedlawrence

28 Apr 2013
06:51:35pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The old Forum on B/S was usually both friendly & civil.I had never heard of "StampoRama" until someone mentioned it over there. Looks like a nice friendly place.

I'm not gonna quit B/S after 8 years, at least not at the present time, that is. Ted.

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michael78651

28 Apr 2013
06:56:24pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I too have invited many people over here as an alternative philatelic site, or just another one for them to pal around in.

You're right about the disappointment from those who helped build the site starting back with StampWants. Going back to 2005, I was one of those who helped test and review so much of the programming. Many here did so as well, as did a few who unfortunately were called to the land of Grade 100 MNH everything in the sky. We also helped with the implementation of BidStart a few years later.

Many of us worked to get the Forums going by helping facilitate conversations - I didn't amass 14,000 posts over there doing nothing. Then the first sellers were instrumental getting the sales side of the site going. Sales were non-existent, and we had to sell good material at near giveaway prices that make SOR closing prices seem like full catalog! Took me almost 8 years to get a store with 24,000 items in it. Anyway, we got it flying. Now it seems like we're yesterday's news where opinions only from the newbies matter. Many believe they have been insulted by what is perceived to be such a slight to those who put StampWants, then BidStart, on the philatelic map.

What happens next, I don't know. Where this all winds up over there, I don't know that either. They are trying to reach out to those who packed and left to get them to return, but this isn't the first time this has been done. You can't trod on people that often. One day they will get up and say, "No more", and off they go into the sunset to find something better. If you know anything about marketing, you know that for everyone who leaves, they will left everyone in their sphere of influence know what happened, and that will spread wildly, hurting what was left behind. (Sounds like I'm writing another book...I need to copy down some of these phrases I wrote!)

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Poodle_Mum
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28 Apr 2013
08:23:55pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I've been a part of SOR since the very early days. I tried out a few small websites before that - to be honest I don't even remember what they were but I found SOR, fell in love with the tiny community we had here and over the past years I've just watched SOR skyrocket in size and members. We've lost some of our dear friends who closed their albums and we've gained so many more.

I'm grateful for all the havoc wrecked over at BS/VSC (not for your personal losses) but for the fact that more people have become aware of SOR and look how much our home has grown just in the past few weeks!!!

What started out as a small tiny log cabin when I first came into SOR has turned into a village of mansions!!!

Applause

Kelly

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

28 Apr 2013
08:30:01pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael
I believe the new term" We've been eBayed " applies to the current atmosphere to a lot of folks like you that put a lot of work and effort into that site. In my opinion I believe that Mark had good intentions with the merger but as thing unfolded at Delphi it brought a lot of upset and angry members( for the treatment of Lloyd by Delphi) right off the bat. Turning At Wits End the onset into a free for all and out of his control. I am in NO WAY sticking up for BS just trying to convince myself that the Mark we all know is still the same Mark- but cannot address the challenges because of the SG/VSC influences.

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larsdog
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29 Apr 2013
12:43:38pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I've been a SOR member for quite a while but didn't post much. I, too, am a BidStart (shall I just use the acronym?!?) refugee. I have requested that they remove my user ID and all of my posts for security reasons. It's too bad since I joined back in 2005 and I had about 3000 posts. Oh well, I see a lot of my friends from there are already here! I guess this is my new home.

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

29 Apr 2013
02:17:42pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Larsdog,
Welcome home.
Ross

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khj
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29 Apr 2013
03:19:52pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Welcome back to SOR, Lars!

Looks like the dog owners are going to outnumber the cat owners by quite a margin...

Happy k

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sponthetrona2
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29 Apr 2013
04:01:23pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I have both, cats and a dog. One is a Norwich Terrier and the cats, one is the size of a small mountain lion and the other is a skiddish black thing....to make this a stamp related post we are certainly getting a lot of requests for membership from Bidstart folks---WELCOME---Perry Nerd

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Noernberg
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29 Apr 2013
06:42:41pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

That's pretty good! Nice variety!

We are down a bit, now down to:

2 dogs

7 cats

2 guinea pigs

2 fish tanks

1 cockatiel

1 parakeet

1 hamster

Yeah, down just a bit since we lost the bunnies.

Oh, and I have two mallards who seem to have moved in to my pool... At Wits End

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michael78651

29 Apr 2013
07:14:51pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

MEG's coonhound can pay you a visit if you want. I guarantee you won't have anything alive in your yard when he leaves!

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larsdog
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30 Apr 2013
10:15:20pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Mr. Numbers - helpful as always!

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Deano

15 May 2013
08:17:06pm
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Im at a loss. I see two dogs and many others for an avitar and a upside down C11. Good discussions with Ross and many others. Should I get a new avitar or what? Geesh how many times does the coin flip?

Deano

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

15 May 2013
08:45:51pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Welcome Deano.
I am all for keeping the old Avatar, except for Kim!
rrr...

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michael78651

16 May 2013
01:53:27am
re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

deano, keep your upright C11. That way you and Bobby can flip each other around!

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michael78651

16 Apr 2013
04:00:12pm

Stanley Gibbons is continuing its acquisitions of philatelic web sites as evidenced by this announcement:

"BidStart and The Virtual Stamp Club (VSC) are excited to announce that they are joining forces in the next couple of weeks, following the recent acquisition of VSC by bidStart. We intend to bring our community closer together, with better content that aims to enrich and engage us all.

VSC founder and owner Lloyd de Vries joins bidStart immediately as our new Head of Community. Lloyd will work for bidStart on a permanent basis, and will be able to devote more time to the philatelic community, both for the combined message board and on the Web."

The discussion forums on both web sites will be merged on April 22.

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Tim
Collector, Webmaster
16 Apr 2013
08:15:46pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Wow, it is always the Virtual Stamp Club that I compare Stamporama to. When you check the Google searches it is always Stamporama and the Virtual Stamp Club that are one and two, changing order depending on the day. Congratulations to the VSC.

Tim

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17 Apr 2013
06:19:09am

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tim, lets incorporate and go public. IPO at $38 a share?

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Tim
Collector, Webmaster
17 Apr 2013
07:55:25am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Nah, then we would have to provide a service.

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CapeStampMan

Mike
17 Apr 2013
12:51:03pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

As long at it is not a postal service!

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
09:45:10am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

After going through the new Forums on BS/VSC, I can say that I like the SOR Discussion Boards better.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
23 Apr 2013
10:23:11am

Auctions

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

i liked ours better before we implemented some changes; now I really think they are much better. Lots of good discussions on VSC, but ours are navigable as well as informational.

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khj

23 Apr 2013
01:05:20pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Well, so far this has not been a good month for some of the other stamp forums.

The attempted incorporation of VSC into the BS Forum has generated a lot of problems. There was a huge split at VSC over this. VSC members who went over to BS have given mixed reviews. Some of the VSC members who tried out the new redesigned BS Forum have already decided they will not be returning to the BS Forum. At least long-time BS Forum member has already stated that he will not be participating in the BS Forum any more because the usernames have been replaced by the real names, and the real names are now posted alongside every single post (old or new).

Change rarely comes easily. I must commend the administrators/moderators of Stamporama. I had read with interest the many comments/suggestions made prior to the recent webpage changes at this website. While there were clearly a variety of opinions, the decisions were not made ahead of time, but after discussion and feedback from forum members. You can't make everybody happy, but at least giving members a time to be heard BEFORE the decision is made, does mean a lot. It makes things genuine, and not just paying "lip-service".

Again, my commendation to the administrators/moderators AND the members of Stamporama. I am impressed.

Hopefully, I'll be able to spend a little more time here at Stamporama.

k

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
03:15:54pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I agree with the above post. While there was heated debate here on suggested changes to SOR, at least people could state their opinions and their wants. When the membership has a say, then the membership can claim ownership in how the site operates, and will be more accepting of the overall changes made and implemented even if they didn't like some of them. AT LEAST THEY HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR POINT AND/OR MAKE SUGGESTIONS. On BidStart, this is the second time users have had major changes thrown in their faces and have been told to like it, because several bigshots decided that is the correct way to go. They forget that BidStart is not a club like SOR. It is a commercial site. The users, particularly the sellers, bay the bills on BidStart.

Dave, when I made my short comment on the two Forums (BS vs SOR), I wasn't referring to the content and information being posted in the forums. Both have content that runs from mediocre to excellent. I was referring to how the boards function and their usability. For BidStart, the changes are like going from Word to WordPad. BS administration has told us that this is a good thing. Oh well......

Funny how BidStart has always said that it wants to be a standout and different from what is already out there. As time passes, it certainly has become more and more like eBay, and now it's trying to look like Facebook.

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
03:19:32pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

So I am not misunderstood on my comments regarding the changes recently made on BidStart, the changes were only made to the Forum discussion boards, not to the selling portion of the site.

It has been said that changes to the selling portion of the site are coming next. No one knows what those are.

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Apr 2013
03:45:48pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

There is an old saying, often attributed to John F. Kennedy in error because he repeated it, that applies to my feelings about change;


" .... If something is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change it. ...."

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michael78651

23 Apr 2013
04:19:27pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I don't have problem with change. I have a problem with change thrust upon people without input.

Heck, the new fearless leader of the Forums over at Bidstart, the best he has done amid all the controversy is write new posts about new stamp issues. No replies and only a few views. If that is what the future of the BS Forums is going to be...well, I have already told people who have vented to me about all the mess over there that there is a web site called Stamporama. Good time to go over there and do some recruiting for here.

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drmicro68

23 Apr 2013
08:44:13pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Prior to last Monday, I only visited SOR and VSC--different interfaces & people, but mostly good posts & SOR is often a lot of fun, while VSC had a different enough slant to keep my interest. I had never tried the BidStart forums and am not a fan of Stamp Community Family (SCF). The 'new' BidStart/VSC looks suspiciously like SCF. And the former VSC (now called 'The Stamp Forum'--some genius at Delphi came up with that) is rife with dissension and little information. I genuinely dislike the interface at the new VSC (I have been accused of not liking facebook, but if fb looked & felt like the BidStart/VSC I'd have nothing to do with it either) and SCF (maybe because I never used it before) looks like a morass, not an inviting forum. Thankful that SOR continues as it has (and yes, I do like the changes altho' I wasn't sure at first). Not sure what I'm going to do wrt VSC, The Stamp Forum or SCF. Ptooey.
Roger

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
23 Apr 2013
09:53:26pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Charlie wrote:

"There is an old saying, often attributed to John F. Kennedy in error because he repeated it, that applies to my feelings about change;


" .... If something is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change it. ....""




Amen, Charlie!!!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
24 Apr 2013
01:07:18am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy has stalled positive developments at Stamporama for many years. We would still be using external picture hosting services today, not being able to directly upload pictures to discussions or our auction. I cannot even begin to enumerate the positive infrastructure developments since 2007 when I joined Stamporama. We now have a discussion board that has caught up with, and surpassed, the functionality of other internet stamps clubs.

Now that our infrastructure is competitive, we have a foundation to build on. A "vision" for Stamporama that idealizes the status quo (aka no change) or action only if something is “broken,” is depressing. My vision -- given the enormous potential of our human capital, our volunteers and a core of contributing members, as well as our infrastructure –- must be a vision of growth: To create a flourishing community that attracts stamp collectors from novice to expert to our discussion board and excellent sellers to our member auction.

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
06:41:50am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Change, as long as it moves forward, and not backward.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
24 Apr 2013
08:41:14am

Auctions

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

the two posters above, Arno and Michael, reflect traits I find in SOR and that deserve mention.

Michael noted that enormous change was thrust upon the VSC community and reported fait accomplit. I believe he means to contrast the approach we take here.

Having worked with Arno on this latest DB restructuring, he doesn't move an inch without having heard all comments and tried to create consensus, if not achieve unanimity.

This all occurs under an umbrella, held by Tim, in which all opinions are solicited and welcomed.

Not everything we do is welcomed, and I, in particular, have generated enormous push back for some of the things I've championed. But even when members roll their eyes, they mostly do it respectfully....mostly.

I applaud the work we do here. We have met our allies, and they are us....mostly. Apologies to Commodore Perry and Walt Kelly.

David

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24 Apr 2013
05:27:56pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Wow, I can't believe I just had to defend SORs Discussion Board on bidStart. Someone was complaining it was too difficult to navigate. Yikes!!!

Bob

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24 Apr 2013
06:01:48pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Come on, Bob! Getting that little arrow on top of the proper button, then having to use your index finger to click on it - maybe it's easy for you, but for the rest of us it is Hell!

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Tim
Collector, Webmaster
24 Apr 2013
07:06:51pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

So, I love the fact that you guys are making positive comparisons between SOR and Bidstart, but I notice that many of you have tried out the new Bidstart discussion board. I would like to know what you like about it. There is alway good things and bad things about every thing. You have told us what you don't like about Bidstart, what do you like about it.

Regards ... Tim

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
07:37:52pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I like how the sales portion of the site works. I hope that doesn't get screwed up.

As for the discussion area, I really don't like any of it. The old BidStart forums was easy to use and had plenty of attributes to permit someone to create proper responses. In the new version, you can't go directly to the posts you haven't read, formatting of text is at a bare minimum, can't mark unread posts as read (all posts in the forums are unread), posts are listed from oldest to newest requiring scrolling and hopping through several pages, navigation is very time consuming, sloppy and requires much scrolling and clicking through several pages, images inserted into a posting drop to the bottom of the post, no easy way to send someone a private message if they have not posted in the forum, no documentation to help people efficiently use the new forums. There is more. The attributes that existed in the old version should have been carried over to the new one, not tossed out to make a minimized version.

I will not spend as much time in the forums there like I used to. That'll give me more time to post here.

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auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
24 Apr 2013
07:46:10pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thanks Michael.

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24 Apr 2013
07:53:36pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tim Auld:

"Rhinelander" is bang on key with his comments (above) concerning
"if it ain't broken, don't fix it". His vision of how Stamporama functions,
and how it should continue to do so, is one in which ideas will flourish
and dynamic change will continue to occur within our club.

My well-deserved reputation as a digital-age dinosaur is based on my
resistance to "alterations" masquerading as change: the cosmetic surgery;
this season's fashion with more buttons; the flavour-of-the-moment stuff;
the new, improved model with brighter hubcaps. Anyone can make it different,
I want it better.

I believe we in Stamporama should march on the road that Arno's travelling
to the promised land. If there are features in VSC and UpStart that
hold promise for us, then let's check 'em out as you suggest.

John Derry


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khj

24 Apr 2013
07:54:45pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Do not mistake this as a suggestion to try out the new BS Forum, but if you do...

I would strongly suggest to wait at least 1-2 months until they get the new Forum software up to the level of Primitive. As Michael##### noted, the current change is like going from Word to WordPad (and he is being generous in that comment). They dumped a pretty good phpBB3 software and installed a home-brewed concoction. It will be awhile before the functionality (or lack of) will not cause you to tear out hair.

Also, the environment there is currently semi-caustic. That will also take awhile to blow over, if it does at all.

If you go now, you may not get a fair snapshot. I know a lot of visitors who have left very disappointed, thinking the current BS Forum "software" is what has always been in place -- and that is not true. There used to be very good software installed, but that has been surprisingly dumped.

Finally, be advised that if you register there, they now have a new requirement that your full real name (not your userID) will be attached to every post. The privacy policy has also been cited by the administrators, which basically is indirectly saying that they reserve the right to post/distribute any information about you they have collected -- past, present, or future (within the limits of the law, of course).

Therefore, if you visit, do so at the right time and with a proper understanding.

Not trying to cause trouble, just a suggestion. If admin/mods feel this post is inappropriate, I will not be upset at all if this post gets deleted.

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
24 Apr 2013
08:21:31pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael said:

"I will not spend as much time in the forums there like I used to. That'll give me more time to post here"


God, help us!

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auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
24 Apr 2013
08:23:14pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thank you Kim and slow down John. Thank you both for your responses. I love what we have here, but I'm always open to learn and improve. I wasn't proposing changing anything, but am alway open for ideas for the future. If you compared the two sites you'd think I like this buy I don't like that. Together will make Stamporama the best site we can.

Best regards ... Tim.

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
08:25:17pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

KHJ is right, and he cites what the administration at BS has stated in the Forums. They claim it was done for "unity" and to prevent "bullying". They created a big schism instead.

How does saying the changes in the BS Forums are like going from Word to a word processor for the Commodore 64?

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michael78651

24 Apr 2013
08:27:55pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Bobby, that's why I added that last little tidbit in my message. I knew someone would have a come back to it!

That was the first time in three days that I have laughed reading posts.

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
24 Apr 2013
08:33:52pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Khj, why would anyone delete your post? Last I heard free speech was still recognized here. The time comes when it isn't, or when posts on this board are censored (other than for profanity or libelous accusations), that is when I'll yell, scream and kick until given the boot! With the folk I have met here since I joined in late January of this year, I'd say that is as close to impossible as you can come! Agree, disagree, complain, whine all you want, as long as you respect the rights of others, yours will be defended to my dying breath.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
24 Apr 2013
08:36:09pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I'm not fond of the new Discussion Board at bidStart but I will wait a bit and see what shakes out. It definitely needs improvement. There is so much complaining over there I feel my complaints will be lost in the shuffle. Perhaps in a month or two they will have their act together.

Bob

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
24 Apr 2013
08:40:28pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Personally, I prefer posts that use a real name and often,
(When I remember to type it in)
end my posts;

Charlie Jensen,
Lecanto, Florida.

It just seems to me that over time and many posts in different forums civility is enhanced when the poster is not concealed behind some fanciful "Nom de plume."
That is a subjective opinion unsupported by any real research or tabulation.
I started to use my initials and birth date some 15 or 16 years ago when I signed onto USENET through a "WEB-TV" connection as it seemed to be the way things were being done then. Were I doing that all over today I am quite sure I would just use my given name.


Charlie Jensen,
Lecanto, Florida.

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khj

24 Apr 2013
08:47:57pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

"How does saying the changes in the BS Forums are like going from Word to a word processor for the Commodore 64?"



I would say you just insulted the Commodore 64 software comparing it to the current BS Forum software!

But seriously, I have no doubt that the software will improve. It needs time. Quite frankly, there's almost nothing good about the current software except that the groups/communities functions have been incorporated (they had been suddenly disabled in the phpBB3 software several years ago). I would say about 90% of the current software framework is either completely non-functional or not functioning properly. This is not even considering a whole list of basic features that are completely absent.

If you want a good taste of potential features to consider, again I would suggest waiting at least 1-2 months. Otherwise, I honestly believe you will wasting your time and/or get a misleading snapshot of the BS Forum.
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khj

24 Apr 2013
09:10:28pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Regarding the suggestion that we post our real names and locations -- yes, it's nice to know the real person you interacting with. However...

There are various security issues, including stalking, that some of us have to deal with in our work. I have no problems revealing my name and location to those I personally know or interact with. But I can't change what I do, and if there is a requirement that my name and location be identified with every post, then I can only respect the requirements of a forum and leave.

The problem at BS was that for a period of 2 days, a unilateral decision was implemented by administration to show the full real name with every post. This was done without warning. The real problem was this was done retroactively to ALL previous posts. I suddenly found myself with 6000+ hits on google, when originally I was 1 or 2 out of several tens of thousands. Previously, unless you already knew a certain threshold of basic information about me, you were unlikely to find me just by using my userID. Suddenly, the BS Forum provided the necessary information and a large number of google hits to make things easier to locate me. This caused a major security issue for my organization. I hadn't even thought about my stalking problem until another poster (who also left) mentioned it.

I understand that it's nice to know who someone really is and where they're at. In general, I don't have any problems revealing this information to those who ask (Michael##### can attest to that). The problem I ran into was having this information suddenly posted on the internet in large quantities without my knowledge and without any warning.

I do want to point out that BS Forum has reverted the old posts back to original userIDs after my private protest (and later a single posted protest). I did thank the BS Forum admin for that. But unfortunately, the damage may already have been done. Also, they made it clear that they do have the right to post the real names. Since my trust level is down to zero, I am preparing for the real possibility that it may happen again.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted people to understand that some of us have valid reasons for not publicly posting our full names and locations all the time.

Kim

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auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
24 Apr 2013
09:34:10pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Kim,
I promise you, we won't be publishing everyone's real name.

You really don't need it though. We all know who everyone is. New members catch on quickly. I support the current approach to keep our real names private along with our email addresses. It is easy enough for people to harvest information off the internet without us helping them.

Regards ... Tim.

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24 Apr 2013
10:14:35pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Yes the real problem isn't here but in forums in general. Members have access to the membership base so it is not that difficult to know who is chatting.

I just find many of what I call fanciful pseudonyms somewhat silly, and have occasionally noticed in some forums behavior that I do not think a poster would employ were his, or possibly her, name attached.

Charlie

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khj

24 Apr 2013
10:16:30pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thank you, Tim!

I agree, there's more than enough info online to find most people fairly easily. I'm glad that you made the point (that I cannot seem to get across to the powers that be elsewhere):

"...without us helping them."



Also, I really don't have a problem with my full first name being shown, obviously; I just get lazy sometimes and just put "k".

-- Kim (aka khj, aka k)

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khj

24 Apr 2013
10:30:13pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

cdj1222,

I agree that there is misbehavior in some forums. The great majority of times, reporting it to admin/mods solves the problem and an understanding is reached. Worst case, that person is expelled.

When admin/mods aren't proactive, that forum tends to get really messy. I typically don't hang around those forums long.

I would say things are handled pretty well here. Discussions involving disagreements are pretty civil here. I haven't been here that long or that often, but I'm pretty sure I'm probably the meanest person on SOR.

k

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24 Apr 2013
11:18:58pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Kim,
If it helps, I have absolutely no idea who you are, in a good way of course. Although it seems I'm in the minority there.

I've never googled anyone on any DB that I participate in. I don't see the point. I love when people share personal stories and history and I've made many friends here but I certainly don't need to know everyone's vital information.

I'm also a member at BS. I clearly don't care if people know my last name since its in my username but I understand why people would feel differently. I think the admin there is going way too far by making a change like posting everyone's real names without input or warning. There's simply no need for it. I also have many of the same complaints that others have so we'll see if things improve or not.

Tim,
Before the changes at BS, I liked their forum but have always liked this one better. There's was easy to navigate, but so is this one. There's allowed you to go to your first unread post in a thread but here it happens automatically. I find the search feature for members here is much easier than there but that could be because I haven't played with theirs enough. I really never thought anything they did was superior to what is done here. I've also tried other stamp DB's and I've always found that SOR is far superior. So, once again, kudos for doing such a fabulous job!

Lisa

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khj

24 Apr 2013
11:29:46pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Yes, Lisa, I did see you over at BS. You did very very well. I was tied down, so I didn't post much recently. But I did drop in and observe in the threads you were participating in. In the past when I read your posts here, I was very encouraged and refreshed by your excitement as you delved into this hobby.

Yes, a lot of long time collectors know each other already from other places, and recognize each other pretty readily even if not using the same username.

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
25 Apr 2013
12:41:16am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I would be interested to learn if Ken, our secretary, currently experiences a spike in member applications. It does not really appear so. I somehow think this might be a good sign, indicating that folks active on these other forums are trying to work it out. Let’s not be tempted into schadenfreude. Let’s also go easy on misplaced self-congratulations. I am not a member on any of these forums, but wish our honored competition well. I hope they will all overcome the current turmoil. Strife does not help the hobby.

As for the topic of change on Stamporama, just by reading what members request in additional functionality, it appears the heavy lifting is done. All the major functions of a discussion board, reading and answering posts, uploading pictures, keeping track of what has already been read and what is new, a search function etc., are easy to use. I like our simple, functional look.

The real areas of change are much more difficult to address than changes in the infrastructure. We have made great strides on the infrastructure front. We have a really good product. Now, we need to take it to the market. The next set of “changes” will be much harder: Increasing the attractiveness of the forum (and the member auction), not by adding more gimmicks, but by developing a more active member base and quality content. It hurts me (not really, but it still stinks) that the best answer we had for good questions at times was to tell the person to re-post the question on the such-and-such forum.


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khj

25 Apr 2013
12:52:51am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I will try to spend more time here, and contribute what I can to answering questions.

I certainly have learned things here, and I've been collecting for 4 decades!

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michael78651

25 Apr 2013
12:55:53am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Lisa, the old Forum at BidStart had a quick click function to get directly to the unread posts. It was a right click on the "COMMUNITY" link. It doesn't work anymore.

I just read an interesting post at BS. Lloyd stated that he is often lost in the new forums. When he can't figure something out he goes to the admin. He stated that often admin doesn't know how something is supposed to work and can't answer his question.

Tim, when you make programming changes, do you know how things are supposed to work? I know you do, and you can help anyone who asks for help about the change as well. That comment was not surprising, but unbelievable at how poor the programming efforts have become over there. Now I really am concerned that the re-programming of the selling part of the site is going to blow up, because they won't know what they did.

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khj

25 Apr 2013
01:06:16am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

For your sake Michael##### and the sake of my seller friends on BS, I hope they actually complete a beta testing/correction of any software changes on the market side BEFORE they force everybody to use the new software. Right now, all the BS Forum participants are beta testers. I had originally thought beta testing was going to be completed before the rollout on April 22 (not to mention expected the software programming to have been completed before the announced rollout date of April 22). Boy, did we all get a surprise!

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michael78651

25 Apr 2013
05:26:03pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The instituted a fix today that sends you now to the first unread post in a topic. They took a step to catch up with the SOR Discussion Board! LMFAO

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
25 Apr 2013
06:30:51pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The issue of security is a real one, because forums were linked to transaction information which were previously masked by the voluntary use of pseudonym. Just for those interested I emailed the following letter to management at BS. Trust is an acquired commodity. Loosing it is hard to recover from. I no longer post on BS and am debating whether to pull all my previous posts.
COPY: (edited my name out)

Re: My Last posts on BS message board forum
Hi Mark:
I am sending you an email version of my last posts on the forum, which I have now deleted. I don't know if you saw them and plan to address them further, but as far as I am concerned, these are serious matters. I will not post anymore on the forum under my full name, because the security risks I describe far outweigh the benefits.
I still love BS and will continue to purchase here, but unfortunately for me, I have lost the congenial and friendly family I had found in the forums. I will just migrate elsewhere for this, which is too bad.
I know you have your plate full, and I know these decisions are not easy. Not sure if you are being pushed by your new management? But it seems you are not hearing us (on this issue).
As I mentioned before, NextDoor, a neighborhood start up ran into similar difficulties when it did not take into account or disregarded the real safety concerns of its membership, because of its own vision. Safety covers a wide spectrum of situations, no two alike. It backed out, removed a full blown new release introduction, modified it, did more beta testing, and finally is reintroducing it in a form that met most of the objections of the large percentage of its membership that found it violated its trust on the issue of security. This was courageous. This also told loudly all members that they really cared and enhanced their position with all. You should talk to Nirav Tolia, CEO, Nextdoor. While it is a different product and situation, I think his experience in this related matter may be illuminating to you in your current situation. I encourage you to give him a phone call, ceo to ceo.
I wish you all the best. Regards,
xxxxxxxx (rrraphy)
(President Golden Gate Stamp Club, SF CA)

COPY OF LAST 2 POSTS:
xxxxxxxx
Jim Coolbaugh said:Howdi! As an observer of the various feelings and opinions on the names topic, it would seem to me the best alternative would be an option on the profile that allowed either a real or pseudo name to be used...choice! What a novel idea! I think most of us feel that our names/data are far more publicly available already than we'd like. But there are others who don't seem to care...or don't know any better.


>>@Jim...Thanks

Security sensitivities vary by region, country, state, city and neighborhood. If one feels secure at putting photo and real name publicly for all to see, please accept that in someone else's world it is not acceptable, and even dangerous. So user's choice is clearly mandated. Management already has (securely I assume) all relevant information on name, address, etc... so it is trying to impose its own perception here and is not being sensitive to others, in what is an unrestricted public forum.
Many of us trade hundreds of dollars worth of stamps via the mail. We don't want to make ourselves potential targets. When I buy something, I do it with a pseudonym, so that personal information is masked, except to the other party. And now you are putting it out for all to easily find out by simple cross correlation it could escalate. You are giving more tools to the large body of predators who prey on uninformed or trusting web users. Are we just waiting for an accident to happen? Are you willing to assume the risk too? If your forums were not connected to our transactions, and profiles that would be less serious...but they are! But irrespective of this, it should be my decision, not yours, and not retroactively. Thanks for listening, Mark. I know you have in the past.
xxxxxxxxx

436 posts 112092

April 24, 2013 2:29 PM PDT
Quote Edit Delete

How is it easily used by anyone..... intending on whatever.... by simple cross-correlation well well....On my profile you also post a link to my transaction feedback. Now my feedback is pseudonym keyed, tied to my purchases....voila!
So now the PRIVATE pseudonym, under which I have done business HERE for a number of years is PUBLICLY associated with my real name! I hope you see and appreciate the severity of this BREACH OF TRUST and the SECURITY liability you and SG are now taking on. It is NOT about congenial atmosphere, it is about RISKS you are putting your client base under. I would ask your lawyer's opinion before going on any further with this approach.

--->>> from my profile here......FEEDBACK FOR rrraphy (6801), et voila..it is out there for all to put 2+2. with my real name. Again, I am posting this because it is important. And again, I will not be leaving it visible for more than 24 hours for security reasons. Thanks for you comprehension.
This post was edited by xxxxxx at April 24, 2013 2:31 PM PDT

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."

APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
26 Apr 2013
04:35:11pm
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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Looks like I'm also going to be here more than BS. I have tried really hard to learn how to navigate around and I'm not doing so well. The full name also bothers me to an extent. Maybe if the used our first name and last initial it wouldn't have smacked us so hard. But to basically tell us, this is how it is and that's life get over it was rather hard to take. I remember when BS was SW, suggestions to make it a better site was taken to heart and all suggestions were listened to. But not this time. Also, if I could vent a little bit, I don't feel like I'm on BS forum, I feel like I'm on Virtual forum.

So here I'm with my friends.........

Luree

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
26 Apr 2013
05:01:33pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Luree and Welcome,
Make sure you introduce yourself in the " Member Introduction" forum. Lots of nice folks here to welcome you!!!!!
The new style of management at BS leave's a lot to look forward to. I will continue to have a store but that's about it. I have been and will continue to bite my lip. I guess there is no philatelic utopia, but we where darn close for a while there..
Also rrraphy -I'm betting you have gotten no reply and if you did it was a canned response.

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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
26 Apr 2013
05:06:14pm
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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I sorta did introduce myself when I first joined a couple months ago. But I haven't been very active over here. Popped in and lurked but didn't say much. In time I will become a chatty-Kathy, promise you that!

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khj

26 Apr 2013
06:08:17pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Well then, welcome back, Luree!

k

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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
26 Apr 2013
06:15:34pm
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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Thanks K, missed seeing you so I had to run you down over here......JK!

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
26 Apr 2013
06:25:27pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I did get a response. It did not satisfy me, so I am out of their forum for good. Just need to take my photo/avatar out, and delete the last posts. Not worth spending any more time.
For those interested, this is the response I got(1), and further down my last response(2):
(1) ""Hi Ralph,

I've seen your message in our forums, as well as your most recent message here. We appreciate all of the comments and suggestions we get which includes when a member may voice an opinion different than ours. However, just because we don't make changes that you propose does not mean we're ignoring you.

I certainly understand your position on the use of real names. As you've pointed out, if someone had malicious intent, and they want to determine your address, they now have the possibility that from your username on bidStart, they could go to our community area, and attempt to locate your real name. From there, they could go to Google, and with a significant amount of effort, they may possibly be able to obtain your address - which they could use for malicious intent knowing that you own stamps of value, and where you live. Even though there is a very slim chance someone could do this, I do understand the concern that before there was no chance, and now there is a slim chance.

This was certainly something we considered. However, one thing to note is that if someone had malicious intent, and wanted to obtain your address, they would never need to go through this lengthy process. Anyone, at any time, would simply need to create an account on bidStart, and purchase an item from you (regardless of if they paid for it), and instantly be given not just your full name, but your email address, and your address. So it's just something to think about.

Again, if you have a different opinion on your own security, we certainly respect that. However, I certainly hope that you reconsider, and continue to be an active member of our community. While it may not have been easy to notice, since the launch of our new community, even excluding any negative comments, activity has been up very significantly. This is something we believe will continue it to grow substantially, and would certainly like you to be a part of.""

(2)""Thanks for the comments but as far as I am concerned it does not address my perception of heightened risk. I will continue to buy on BS, but I will not return to post on the forum as long as my real name is associated with it. You know who I am, and if your excuse is moderating bullies, you have all the tools. Talking of bullies, I sure would like you or someone to moderate the real bullies you now have using their full names, something that never happened before.
I also don't sell on BS so your example is not relevant.
Mark, I know you mean well, and you try hard, but for me, I felt protected by the privacy afforded on BS forums. I have removed my recent posts, those associated with my name, not my pseudonym. I would now ask that you remove any public reference to my full name. If it is possible, you can leave all prior posts. If not, please delete those as well. I will do business under my pseudonym, just like I do on ebay. Thanks
Rrraphy ""

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michael78651

26 Apr 2013
10:01:16pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Luree!

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khj

26 Apr 2013
11:15:51pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

"so I had to run you down over here"


Well, purrfin2, it's a good thing this cat has 9 lives!

k
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APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
27 Apr 2013
01:27:17pm
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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hey Cuz Michael!

K, I'm so glad you have many more lives for me to run you down, but it didn't hurt, did it?

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khj

27 Apr 2013
02:11:44pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

When I've had a few Dr. Pepper's, I don't feel a thing...

k

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tooler

27 Apr 2013
04:23:09pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I see a lot of familiar names here from bidStart (StampWants when I joined. I haven't been here very long and am still trying to figure out how things work.

The forums on bidStart are a mess. Nothing close to what it was. It looks to me like the owner of VSC guit and brought all his followers over and are making bidStart into the new VSC.
I have gone to VSC on a few occasions, and found it wasn't for me. bidStart was more easy to use, to me anyway.

I'm not that computer savvy so things have to be simple. (like me) I hope I get the hang of StampoRama because it looks like I will enjoy being here, especially now that so many XbidStarters are here.

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
07:02:10pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Howdy, Tooler!

Stamporama is a relatively easy web site to use. The web wizard works wonders here. He even has a list of potential and in-progress enhancement projects that have been requested and discussed, and provides the status of the projects. Just remember the ol' days of StampWants, and then you can relax here at SOR.

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tedlawrence

27 Apr 2013
10:38:34pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Hi Michael#'s: I have noticed that during the last week or so. that I have only had a couple of lookers. at my store at b/s.

There have been a million messages in the forums, but it appears that not much is going on, in buying & selling over there.

Maybe this will be temporary until things cool down over there. Hopefully it's not a situation where the big changes have permanently chased away many buyers. Ted.

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
27 Apr 2013
10:48:47pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Tedski,
There is VSC member states that "Most of us(VSC Memebrs) do not give a hoot about the BS bottom line. not word for word but close.
They are not there to purchase just gloat and sling insults.
I dont know if I'm allowed to post a link to that forum and do not wish to violate any rules.
Ross

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
10:49:36pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Don't know what's going to happen over there in the long run. If it keeps on like it has been, I pretty much won't care.

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michael78651

27 Apr 2013
11:00:47pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Ross, I wouldn't. Why publicize those jerks. Plus, if you say something against them, they lock the post. Yet, they can say all they want against us and the site, and the post remains open until a BidStart member replies.

The new people in the administration from VSC won't even promote sales on the site that is paying them. One even touts how he sells elsewhere, and gets all upset when called out for the conflict of interest.

Stanley Gibbons sure has spent alot of money (over $1 million) to buy that site. Their employees sure are taking advantage of all that. I wonder what Gibbons would say if they were told about the goings on there? Remember, Mark is not the owner of that site anymore. Lloyd doesn't own VSC anymore. They are just employees of Gibbons.

Bottom line is that they will get what they deserve, whatever that is.

Ted, I would agree that sales have dropped. They were doing all right until the changeover. At the current pace, sales site-wide look to end the month around 10% off from March.

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
28 Apr 2013
08:09:18am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael,
Over night they have removed several comments and locked the topic...I dont ever remember that happening in the almost 7 years I was there. Then threaten to remove us.
Ross

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
28 Apr 2013
05:56:49pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

My suggestion. Invite personally those you care about to come and join us here. I have and I will continue to do so..and the sooner the better. This is my suggestion to all who have migrated here recently. Like me, many may not even be aware of StampoRama. Thanks Michael G. for suggesting it.
To avoid censorship on BS, I ask (via instant message) for a private email, and then broach the topic. I no longer post on BS and I no longer read the forum, so your impressions are interesting....in a At Wits Endcuriosity kind of way, and I am saddened for those who spent so much time building the old SW.
I will continue to buy there...but less and I will no longer buy from dealers who have... well you know what I mean.
But I am looking to gradually move my business elsewhere. If auctions, trading and sales really take off here, I may even list some of my material. Looking forward to testing the system as a buyer first. rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
tedlawrence

28 Apr 2013
06:51:35pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

The old Forum on B/S was usually both friendly & civil.I had never heard of "StampoRama" until someone mentioned it over there. Looks like a nice friendly place.

I'm not gonna quit B/S after 8 years, at least not at the present time, that is. Ted.

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michael78651

28 Apr 2013
06:56:24pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I too have invited many people over here as an alternative philatelic site, or just another one for them to pal around in.

You're right about the disappointment from those who helped build the site starting back with StampWants. Going back to 2005, I was one of those who helped test and review so much of the programming. Many here did so as well, as did a few who unfortunately were called to the land of Grade 100 MNH everything in the sky. We also helped with the implementation of BidStart a few years later.

Many of us worked to get the Forums going by helping facilitate conversations - I didn't amass 14,000 posts over there doing nothing. Then the first sellers were instrumental getting the sales side of the site going. Sales were non-existent, and we had to sell good material at near giveaway prices that make SOR closing prices seem like full catalog! Took me almost 8 years to get a store with 24,000 items in it. Anyway, we got it flying. Now it seems like we're yesterday's news where opinions only from the newbies matter. Many believe they have been insulted by what is perceived to be such a slight to those who put StampWants, then BidStart, on the philatelic map.

What happens next, I don't know. Where this all winds up over there, I don't know that either. They are trying to reach out to those who packed and left to get them to return, but this isn't the first time this has been done. You can't trod on people that often. One day they will get up and say, "No more", and off they go into the sunset to find something better. If you know anything about marketing, you know that for everyone who leaves, they will left everyone in their sphere of influence know what happened, and that will spread wildly, hurting what was left behind. (Sounds like I'm writing another book...I need to copy down some of these phrases I wrote!)

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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
28 Apr 2013
08:23:55pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I've been a part of SOR since the very early days. I tried out a few small websites before that - to be honest I don't even remember what they were but I found SOR, fell in love with the tiny community we had here and over the past years I've just watched SOR skyrocket in size and members. We've lost some of our dear friends who closed their albums and we've gained so many more.

I'm grateful for all the havoc wrecked over at BS/VSC (not for your personal losses) but for the fact that more people have become aware of SOR and look how much our home has grown just in the past few weeks!!!

What started out as a small tiny log cabin when I first came into SOR has turned into a village of mansions!!!

Applause

Kelly

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
28 Apr 2013
08:30:01pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Michael
I believe the new term" We've been eBayed " applies to the current atmosphere to a lot of folks like you that put a lot of work and effort into that site. In my opinion I believe that Mark had good intentions with the merger but as thing unfolded at Delphi it brought a lot of upset and angry members( for the treatment of Lloyd by Delphi) right off the bat. Turning At Wits End the onset into a free for all and out of his control. I am in NO WAY sticking up for BS just trying to convince myself that the Mark we all know is still the same Mark- but cannot address the challenges because of the SG/VSC influences.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
29 Apr 2013
12:43:38pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I've been a SOR member for quite a while but didn't post much. I, too, am a BidStart (shall I just use the acronym?!?) refugee. I have requested that they remove my user ID and all of my posts for security reasons. It's too bad since I joined back in 2005 and I had about 3000 posts. Oh well, I see a lot of my friends from there are already here! I guess this is my new home.

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
29 Apr 2013
02:17:42pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Larsdog,
Welcome home.
Ross

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khj

29 Apr 2013
03:19:52pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Welcome back to SOR, Lars!

Looks like the dog owners are going to outnumber the cat owners by quite a margin...

Happy k

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sponthetrona2

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
29 Apr 2013
04:01:23pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

I have both, cats and a dog. One is a Norwich Terrier and the cats, one is the size of a small mountain lion and the other is a skiddish black thing....to make this a stamp related post we are certainly getting a lot of requests for membership from Bidstart folks---WELCOME---Perry Nerd

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Noernberg

29 Apr 2013
06:42:41pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

That's pretty good! Nice variety!

We are down a bit, now down to:

2 dogs

7 cats

2 guinea pigs

2 fish tanks

1 cockatiel

1 parakeet

1 hamster

Yeah, down just a bit since we lost the bunnies.

Oh, and I have two mallards who seem to have moved in to my pool... At Wits End

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michael78651

29 Apr 2013
07:14:51pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

MEG's coonhound can pay you a visit if you want. I guarantee you won't have anything alive in your yard when he leaves!

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
30 Apr 2013
10:15:20pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Mr. Numbers - helpful as always!

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Deano

15 May 2013
08:17:06pm

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Im at a loss. I see two dogs and many others for an avitar and a upside down C11. Good discussions with Ross and many others. Should I get a new avitar or what? Geesh how many times does the coin flip?

Deano

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
15 May 2013
08:45:51pm

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re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

Welcome Deano.
I am all for keeping the old Avatar, except for Kim!
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
michael78651

16 May 2013
01:53:27am

re: Virtual Stamp Club and BidStart

deano, keep your upright C11. That way you and Bobby can flip each other around!

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