Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Thanks for another great contribution Steve. The topic of stamps as an investment is always good for a spirited discussion among collectors. I’m guessing some of our members have their own thoughts!
Best Regards,
Ralph
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05:48:56pm
Very interesting and informative article. Great job!
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One of my must do's is checking the Linn's stamp market index each month. The stamp market peaked in 1980 and has gone down since. I can remember thinking how great it would be to own the Zeps but did not have the $8000. I assembled a set F-VF Mint Hinged for around $2500 about 4 years ago. I would be very lucky to get a $1000 for the set today. Now at most there are less than 28000 sets in existence and the majority of these were purchased by collectors. The original $4.55 would have been handsomely rewarded if you bought in 1930 and sold in 1980. The 1980 buyer would be looking at a substantial loss in 2013.
Collecting stamps is a pleasureable hobby, but depending on stamp collection as retirement savings is like investing in the lottery or playing blackjack to fund your retirement. The really interesting thing is that so many really desirable stamps are coming on the market at low prices and going begging for buyers. A recent ad in Linn's offers a US 245 VF OG VLH Gem with selvage (left margin) at 50% of Scott. Would you buy it as an investment?
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12:35:45pm
Stamps as an investment? Maybe some classic issues (although still chancey), but mid-20th century USA? Yet there are dealers out there touting "graded" US stamps at ridiculous prices. The ad below is an actual advertisement from a 2012 philatelic publication, by a prominent stamp dealer (sorry, all identifying information has been removed because, while I hope no one is tempted to purchase any of these, I do not want to take the chance of contibuting to the poor judgment of others). Maybe the grading system works for classic stamps, but I have countless 20th century stamps that look as good (or better) than those illustrated. Look through your US collection and see how many of these "valuable" stamps you already own - then try to get even 1% of the price quoted for them!
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If anyone wants stamps like that, I'll sell them to you for half of the prices listed on the images! 
I agree with you that the grading scheme is a rip off.
I think that collector frenzy over it is waning. I say this, because I recently saw an ad in Linns from a big name dealer who is now using new terms for "never hinged". There are different levels of a NH stamp now, in case you didn't know. I'm not going to say who the dealer is, because I can't recall 100% who it is. I don't remember the terms either. I'm looking for the ad in back issues, but haven't been able to find it either. I posted about this over at another stamp site. I'll see if I can find it over there and add it to this, unless someone else knows the ad I'm referring to, and can reply with the new terminology. 
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Okay, I found my post at the other site. Here is the new terminology:
Premium Never Hinged - "post office fresh, NH gum, best centering available, always at least F-VF+ and often VF+"
Normal Never Hinged - "typical quality sold by most dealers, F-VF or better, original gum NH, but not quite as nice as premium NH"
Of course there is an upcharge for Premium NH.
I'm sure you can come up with other variations, such as "Average NH", "Previously NH", and the soon to come "Super Premium NH", with a super upgrade in price...
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02:18:55pm
I like "previously NH" best! Got lots of those. 
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What does that terminology actually mean? "98 NH PSE?
If you are in the USA, these stamps are worth the value that is printed on them, if you use them on a letter.
When I was selling stamps on Ebay I used such stamps as small change when buyers from the States sent me cash. I thought it was the only good use of such stamps, but it seems I was wrong. They are worth a fortune
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07:41:07am
"98" is the graded rating, 100 being absolutely perfect in all respects. "PSE" is the grading/expertization entity that issues the certificate. And "NH"? I like Michael's discussion of "NH"
I'd like to think that collectors are too smart to get hooked into this marketing scheme, but like Mr. Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."
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03:26:10pm
Real stamp collectors who enjoy the hobby aren't fooled, but they constitute less than 10% of the cohort who are interested in postage stamps.
The rest range from newbies, through casual collectors to "get rich quick" speculators. Linns does a calculation every year of so that points out that there are only about 80,000 to 100,000 people who subscribe to Linn,s the APS or some other philatelic journal. Yet the USPS believes that there are about 5,000,000 of what they optimistically call Stamp Collectors".
My take on those stamps is similar to Jan;'s and I'd also use them for postage as make up stamps or to allow me to pay the fractional pay of an auction bill.
My first reaction when looking at them was "Hmmmm, nice examples, clean and well centered, but they don't even have a cancellation !!!"
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We get to see another side of fellow SOR member Steve Swain in his latest article for the club. It turns out Steve is a Senior Consultant with the Accounting and Tax practice of Thomson Reuters and he offers quite an interesting perspective on the regulations addressing collectibles and IRAs in his article: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts - Approved Investments?
Thanks for another great contribution Steve. The topic of stamps as an investment is always good for a spirited discussion among collectors. I’m guessing some of our members have their own thoughts!
Best Regards,
Ralph
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
19 Feb 2013
05:48:56pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
Very interesting and informative article. Great job!
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re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
One of my must do's is checking the Linn's stamp market index each month. The stamp market peaked in 1980 and has gone down since. I can remember thinking how great it would be to own the Zeps but did not have the $8000. I assembled a set F-VF Mint Hinged for around $2500 about 4 years ago. I would be very lucky to get a $1000 for the set today. Now at most there are less than 28000 sets in existence and the majority of these were purchased by collectors. The original $4.55 would have been handsomely rewarded if you bought in 1930 and sold in 1980. The 1980 buyer would be looking at a substantial loss in 2013.
Collecting stamps is a pleasureable hobby, but depending on stamp collection as retirement savings is like investing in the lottery or playing blackjack to fund your retirement. The really interesting thing is that so many really desirable stamps are coming on the market at low prices and going begging for buyers. A recent ad in Linn's offers a US 245 VF OG VLH Gem with selvage (left margin) at 50% of Scott. Would you buy it as an investment?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Feb 2013
12:35:45pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
Stamps as an investment? Maybe some classic issues (although still chancey), but mid-20th century USA? Yet there are dealers out there touting "graded" US stamps at ridiculous prices. The ad below is an actual advertisement from a 2012 philatelic publication, by a prominent stamp dealer (sorry, all identifying information has been removed because, while I hope no one is tempted to purchase any of these, I do not want to take the chance of contibuting to the poor judgment of others). Maybe the grading system works for classic stamps, but I have countless 20th century stamps that look as good (or better) than those illustrated. Look through your US collection and see how many of these "valuable" stamps you already own - then try to get even 1% of the price quoted for them!
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01:27:38pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
If anyone wants stamps like that, I'll sell them to you for half of the prices listed on the images!
I agree with you that the grading scheme is a rip off.
I think that collector frenzy over it is waning. I say this, because I recently saw an ad in Linns from a big name dealer who is now using new terms for "never hinged". There are different levels of a NH stamp now, in case you didn't know. I'm not going to say who the dealer is, because I can't recall 100% who it is. I don't remember the terms either. I'm looking for the ad in back issues, but haven't been able to find it either. I posted about this over at another stamp site. I'll see if I can find it over there and add it to this, unless someone else knows the ad I'm referring to, and can reply with the new terminology.
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01:44:05pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
Okay, I found my post at the other site. Here is the new terminology:
Premium Never Hinged - "post office fresh, NH gum, best centering available, always at least F-VF+ and often VF+"
Normal Never Hinged - "typical quality sold by most dealers, F-VF or better, original gum NH, but not quite as nice as premium NH"
Of course there is an upcharge for Premium NH.
I'm sure you can come up with other variations, such as "Average NH", "Previously NH", and the soon to come "Super Premium NH", with a super upgrade in price...
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Feb 2013
02:18:55pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
I like "previously NH" best! Got lots of those.
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re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
What does that terminology actually mean? "98 NH PSE?
If you are in the USA, these stamps are worth the value that is printed on them, if you use them on a letter.
When I was selling stamps on Ebay I used such stamps as small change when buyers from the States sent me cash. I thought it was the only good use of such stamps, but it seems I was wrong. They are worth a fortune
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this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
21 Feb 2013
07:41:07am
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
"98" is the graded rating, 100 being absolutely perfect in all respects. "PSE" is the grading/expertization entity that issues the certificate. And "NH"? I like Michael's discussion of "NH"
I'd like to think that collectors are too smart to get hooked into this marketing scheme, but like Mr. Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Feb 2013
03:26:10pm
re: Rare Stamps and Individual Retirement Accounts?
Real stamp collectors who enjoy the hobby aren't fooled, but they constitute less than 10% of the cohort who are interested in postage stamps.
The rest range from newbies, through casual collectors to "get rich quick" speculators. Linns does a calculation every year of so that points out that there are only about 80,000 to 100,000 people who subscribe to Linn,s the APS or some other philatelic journal. Yet the USPS believes that there are about 5,000,000 of what they optimistically call Stamp Collectors".
My take on those stamps is similar to Jan;'s and I'd also use them for postage as make up stamps or to allow me to pay the fractional pay of an auction bill.
My first reaction when looking at them was "Hmmmm, nice examples, clean and well centered, but they don't even have a cancellation !!!"
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this post