What we collect!
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps


61 visitors online

United States/Covers & Postmarks : Destruction of franking by the postal service

AuthorPostings
vincy4fish98
10 Jan 2013
11:28:06pm

Have any of you received commemoratives in the mail where they were defaced by some overzealous postal employee or handler? Normally I like to collect the commemoratives that are sent to me from lots I have won, but this is ridiculous. If I didn't know any better I would think they did this so that they are ruined so I can't collect them.

VinceImage Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
khj
Members Picture

10 Jan 2013
11:32:54pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Can't blame the postal workers for that one. The stamps were damaged by the sorting/cancelling machinery. When the very tips of the teeth don't get stuck down to the envelope, the machinery catches it and proceeds to rip across the stamp. Look at MLK's shoulder on the rightmost stamp and you will see another minor rip.

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651
Members Picture

11 Jan 2013
02:47:19am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

The USPS sorting equipment grabs envelopes on the sides. The stamps need to be at least 1/2 inch (more to be extra certain) away from the sides to avoid getting damaged.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
cdj1122
Members Picture

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Jan 2013
07:11:58am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

What annoys me is that occasionally I get a parcel or envelope that was properly cancelled at the point of mailing that some one has recancelled while in transit. I have had this happen a few times in over fifty years.
Considering the amount of mail I get daily and the limited number of times it has happened, I suppose I should not gripe about it but examining those incidents leads me to the conclusion that it was intentional.
Any organization with as many employees as USPS and RM must have one, now and then, who just has had a bad day and they take out their annoyance with their life on some helpless commemoratives on a fancy envelope.
If destroying a nice block of stamps helps them avoid going postal and wreaking havoc on their fellow man, I guess I can ignore it, especially as there is no way for me to identify the individual.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
vincy4fish98
11 Jan 2013
08:28:04am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Thanks for responding. I may have been premature in my conclusions. The sorting machines help explain what I have encountered. I am just getting back into the hobby so I wanted to get a take from more experienced hands on board.

Vince

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
amsd
Members Picture

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
11 Jan 2013
10:15:28am

Auctions
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Vince, that's DEFINITELY a defacing machine's handiwork. no personal animosity there

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
tomiseksj
Members Picture

11 Jan 2013
02:20:05pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Vince,

There isn't much one can do about the machine defacements but stuff like this borders on the criminal -- these were received about a week apart.

Steve

Image Not Found


Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards.net
michael78651
Members Picture

11 Jan 2013
02:54:57pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

"Criminal" in the sense of the hobby. USPS is not in the "hobby". It's job is to deliver the mail, and its employees are required to protect the company's revenue. Who ever did that was simply doing their required job to prevent reuse of the stamps.

Now, here's a question: If the envelope was marked "philatelic material", and it passed through the mail system without a cancellation, would it be acceptable to you to receive a delivery notice from the postal carrier requiring you to come down to the post office to retrieve the piece with postage due of the first class rate, and it would be canceled by the clerk who was giving you the piece in order to avoid the "attack of the Sharpie"?

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
amsd
Members Picture

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
11 Jan 2013
03:55:35pm

Auctions
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Vince, was this an 0dd-sized envelope? If so, it may have by-passed the automated machinery and been spotted by a clerk. While I moan every time I see such a thing, I remember that Michael's point is on the money: the USPS is in the business of moving the mail (and the business part includes revenue protection). And I thank my lucky stars that they are as good as they are.

would that they had self-inking dated cancellers; perhaps that and a $20 at christmas might help out, at least if it's your carrier who's providing the security.

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
sponthetrona2
Members Picture

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
11 Jan 2013
05:00:34pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

As a long time carrier I can tell you we never had time to deface a letter and as a collector I would not have canceled stamps in the manner shown. Clerks on the other hand could care less, but who gets the blame, the person who delivers the mail. I knew my collectors and would even deliver unused plate blocks to these folks with money out of my own pocket. Automatic machines have no heart at all....so blame them.

Like
Login to Like
this post
cdj1122
Members Picture

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Jan 2013
05:22:59pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

My regular long term carrier leaves me a note about the postage due, although philatelic mail is far more likely to be overpaid with nice commemoratives being used than undrpaid.
Often with parcels he pulls in the driveway as he knows I use a rolling chair around the house so will stop and bring it up the ramp to the door for me. I always leave folding cash rounded up for whatever postage is due.
Over the years he has expressed interest in the multitude of fancy-shmancy envlopes from all over the world that arrive several times a week.

My angst is when a item was properly cancelled at the point of dispatch and needs no further revenue protection that subsequenty gete the sharpie treatment whil in transit.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
tomiseksj
Members Picture

11 Jan 2013
08:29:54pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Why would a delivery notice be provided requiring me to pay the first class rate before hand cancellation and subsequent delivery of the items when they were mailed to me with the proper postage attached?

In both instances, the stamps were affixed to #10 envelopes and included the non-machineable surcharge.

I understand that the clerk who did this was doing his or her job and my comment was made from the collector's perspective.

I make similar comments when I receive a far greater proportion of pieces with absolutely no cancellation of any type -- the system obviously isn't perfect.

Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards.net
michael78651
Members Picture

11 Jan 2013
11:13:24pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

The system is far from perfect.

The thought process was to see if paying for the hand cancel would be worth it in order to obtain a nicely canceled cover rather than a Sharpied mess.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
PeterG
Members Picture

12 Jan 2013
05:04:25am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

"The system is far from perfect" - so true. And I don´t think we can expect it to become perfect. But sometimes it seems like the postal jerk hates philatelists. Any other logical explanation for why the red sticker is placed where it is?

Image Not Found


Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651
Members Picture

12 Jan 2013
01:07:00pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

If the red sticker were placed lower, it would cover up part of the address.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
auldstampguy
Members Picture

Just one more small cover .....
12 Jan 2013
06:26:48pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

It's still an interesting cover.

Tim

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

mncancels.org
Stampme
12 Jan 2013
11:59:39pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

I know I'm only dreaming but I would like to see each mail carrier in the US issued a personal cancelling device to hand cancel covers that escaped the machine cancel behemoth. Naturally the cancelling device would have text to the effect: Carrier Cancelled Route ____.
Another nice group of covers for us to collect.

Bruce

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651
Members Picture

13 Jan 2013
03:54:06am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

I remember when I was a kid that you could buy stamps from your postman.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
CapeStampMan
Members Picture

Mike
13 Jan 2013
02:56:15pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Michael,
I didn't know the Pony Express riders actually carried postage stamps. I learned something new today, but I'll have forgotten it by dinner time. LOL

Bruce,
Just imagine how many of those mail carriers would lose their canceller. Talk about chaos when a lot more stamps hit the market with "genuine cancelled" stamps. Our mail lady told me she hand cancels all of my out-going mail, so thought maybe she did carry a hand canceller and ask her about it. She said they were not allowed to carry a canceller, but she actually goes into the PO, after finishing her route and hand cancels my mail that has collectible stamps on them.

I received a letter with a Isreal S/S on it and my "friendly" fill in carrier had to draw lines through all of the stamps. Needless to say he is not on my Christmas card list.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
cdj1122
Members Picture

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jan 2013
07:24:56pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

".... I received a letter with a Isreal S/S on it and my "friendly" fill in carrier had to draw lines through all of the stamps. Needless to say he is not on my Christmas card list. ...."
Hey, I can understand that. You might soak the ISRAELI s/s sheet off and use the stamps to carry US mail somewhere thus defrauding the USPS. Or you might just mail the soaked stamps back to your friend in some foreign country and somehow defraud the USPS of its due.
Collectors do that all the time using stamps that plainly are not US stamps to carry the mail. It must add up to ten or fifteen cents lost revenue each century.

Grrrrrr !!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
michael78651
Members Picture

13 Jan 2013
08:02:53pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Mike. - I wasn't referring to the Pony Express. It was the Roman Centurions.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
snowy12
Members Picture

13 Jan 2013
08:16:40pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Hi All
A few years ago I made a complaint to Australia Post regarding the cancelling of overseas mail here in Australia ,that had already been cancelled in the country of origin.
This was their response.
Image Not Found

So in other words Stiff Cheddar.
Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
CapeStampMan
Members Picture

Mike
13 Jan 2013
09:46:27pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Charlie, you are quite correct, since I'm always happy to spend $1.05 to return unused postage to the ROW, just to save them money. ROFLOL

Brian, at least you gave the poor old bugger something to do for a short while. It helped justify his job.

Michael, Oh, you didn't explain that before. Sure, I used to get stamps from the Centurions wife's, while the old man was off fighting some war far, far away. I remember one time they were off someplace in the olde sod, building some wall out in the middle of nowhere, eventually call it Hadrian's wall, but that's a story for another time. AAAAHHHH, the good old days. How come I can remember that far back, but can't remember yesterday????

Mike

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
tomiseksj
Members Picture

13 Jan 2013
09:50:44pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Brian,

On the bright side, at least Australia Post didn't suggest that you fly to the country of origin to pick the letters up there (another "acceptable philatelic practice").

Steve

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards.net
CapeStampMan
Members Picture

Mike
14 Jan 2013
04:35:37pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Wow, I must have had a proclamation or was even pre-conceived or maybe just psychotic, but look what I found while working on my Aussie collection, just a few minutes ago. I mentioned Hadrian's wall, and Brian and Steve mentioned Australia, how strange is that? Maybe we should form a team and help solve all of the world's problems, just by ourselves. ROFLOL

Image Not Found

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
PeterG
Members Picture

15 Jan 2013
01:54:13pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

He could have placed the red sticker on the remains of the Danish sticker. Plenty of space without covering the numbers on it. Often I see stickers placed on the back of the covers in order not to ruin the stamps. That could certainly have been done here too.

Like
Login to Like
this post
tuscany4me
Members Picture

16 Jan 2013
01:19:23pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

I just recently received this envelope from an SOR auction seller.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651
Members Picture

16 Jan 2013
07:24:58pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

One way to avoid that matter is for sellers to go to the post office and have the envelope hand canceled. Yes, that means standing in line. Figure out when the lines are shortest. It doesn't take that long. It's good PR and customer service for a philatelic seller, and buyers appreciate that more than a Sharpie attack.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
saleem
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
10:00:03am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

I recieved this which was machine cancelled and then marker pen applied because someone didn't want a 5¢ stamp go uncancelled! Brutality or Stupidity?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
tuscany4me
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
10:27:03am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Saleem,

Now that's just down right

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
11:08:52am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Philatelically, it's a shame that happened. Again, had the person mailing the envelope to you taken the time to go to the post office to get the stamps hand canceled, most likely that would not have happened.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
saleem
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
12:27:55pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Here is one more example - this is a meter postage cover but why it is machine cancelled afterwards? Isn't Meter Postage applied at the counter by hand? So why put it through automatic cancelling machine?

Image Not Found

And then here is another one that looks like hand cancelled but again the Pen marks are there.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
saleem
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
12:36:20pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Have a few covers with such wonderful hand cancels that one wonders why a lot of postal history is destroyed by black-markers and things like that. Here is a good one:

Image Not Found


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
michael78651
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
02:18:06pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

To answer your question regarding the postal cancellation on the meter.

Businesses can rent their own meter machines from the post office. If a business runs a bunch of mail, but waits a day or more to bring it to the post office, the post office will run them through the cancelling machines to show the actual date that the mail pieces were submitted to the post office. I can't read the meter date on the cover to compare to the cancellation date. The good thing about this is that a few years ago, the postal service would not accept meter postage that was not dated for the date of submission to the post office.

Also, if the mail piece with a meter is dropped into the wrong box or bin (could be postal customer or postal clerk), it will go through the auto-sorters and get a machine cancel.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
saleem
Members Picture

17 Jan 2013
10:01:11pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Michael thanks for explaining this anomaly, being dropped in the wrong box looks more logical.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
cdj1122
Members Picture

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Jan 2013
11:42:21pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

" ... why a lot of postal history is destroyed by black-markers and things like that ... "
As far as the postal services are concerned, those black markers are as much a part of postal history as a carefully applied hand stamp.
To you, me and other collectors the stamps and the entire cover are ruined, but that is a matter of taste and a subjective eye for what looks nice in a collection or on display at a show.


Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
amsd
Members Picture

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 Jan 2013
08:25:30am

Auctions
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

while I hate them, Charlie, I have to agree: pens and markers are as much a part of PH as are scrapes, discounted postage, meters, and remailed covers from Germany with Kuala Lampur imprints

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
cdj1122
Members Picture

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
18 Jan 2013
10:01:12am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

I have to find the one I sent to my cousin in New Mexico properly addressed including the nine digit zip code that was returned with a Ciudad Mexico backstamp.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
saleem
Members Picture

07 Feb 2013
08:29:09am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Another one bites the dust:

Image Not Found



Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
tomiseksj
Members Picture

07 Feb 2013
08:55:53am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Saleem,

There may be hope for that last cover you posted. The orange barcode label was placed after the stamps were canceled so you might be able to carefully peel it off without damaging the stamps underneath.

Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards.net
DRYER
Members Picture

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
07 Feb 2013
12:40:03pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Saleem:

I know you have more beauties than beasts in your stamp collection; that's what I want to see.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.com
GeoStamper
Members Picture

Steve
23 Jul 2016
07:03:38pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Nice stamps nicely cancelled. What could go wrong? The local post could bundle all the day's mail with a couple strong rubber bands, that's what could go wrong:

Image Not Found

Still, it's an attractive piece; quite colorful:

Image Not Found

Never sure what to do with these. It's a large bubble envelope, so adding it to a collection is tough. I might be able to salvage a couple stamps, but even that's not certain with the self adhesives.

Thanks Micheal for the nice layout of stamps and especially for the great book!

-Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
StampCollector
Members Picture

24 Jul 2016
11:26:18am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Some of the above examples are the reason I limit my sendings to about 100 stamps, bulky envelopes are an invitation to trouble, not much you can do about pen/felt tip cancels but thin envelopes go much easier through canceling machines.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/~stampcollector1
BenFranklin1902
Members Picture

Tom in Exton, PA
24 Jul 2016
11:43:55am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

The main problem with my incoming philatelic mail is the stamp faces getting torn by the sorting machines.

Also, much of it comes through without cancels and those fall into that category of unused - no gum, I'd rather they had nice cancels.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
michael78651
Members Picture

25 Jul 2016
12:15:22am
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Chris, I mailed that package. It contained a book. The clerk hand-canceled the stamps. I would say that the rubber bands were added by the local carrier prior to delivery. The letter included within the rubber bands was mailed from a different state.

I'd have a chat with my local carrier and ask that rubber bands, paper clips, etc. not be used. So, my question is, did the carrier leave the package with the letter at the door, or were both in the mailbox? If at the door, your carrier was probably trying to save you some time by not leaving just the package at the door, and the letter in the mailbox.

Sometimes...Confused

The rubber band didn't mess up the book, right?

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
michael78651
Members Picture

25 Jul 2016
03:36:35pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

No problemo

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
Poodle_Mum
Members Picture

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
26 Jul 2016
03:21:33pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

My pet peeve is when it says quite clearly "do not bend" and some idiot puts it in my post box which is 1/4" larger on three sides and 1/2" larger on other side from the back than from the front. It's still slightly bent to be put in there but in order to get it out from my side, you practically have to destroy the package!

Doesn't anyone have a brain anymore?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
BenFranklin1902
Members Picture

Tom in Exton, PA
26 Jul 2016
07:45:38pm
re: Destruction of franking by the postal service

Quote:

"My pet peeve is when it says quite clearly "do not bend" and some idiot puts it in my post box "



Back when eBay was fairly new, I had a grand business selling automobilia... car paper, old ads, books, dealer brochures and the like.

I shipped everything in hard photo mailers. I used to buy them 500 at a time. And I had a "DO NOT BEND OR FOLD" rubber stamp I used liberally on these. 99% of them got delivered without issue. I had one lady who bought a 1968 Camaro dealer brochure for $35 as a Christmas gift for her husband who owned the real car. She wanted me to make good because it arrived damaged. She said she watched her carrier through her window take the hard photo mailer, bend it over a step and bend it in half to fit through her mail slot. She thought I'd just send along another one!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
        
Please Note:
Postings that were loaded from the old Discussion Board cannot be edited.

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails


User Agreement

Copyright © 2021 Stamporama.com