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United States/Stamps : Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

 

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parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

06 Jan 2013
10:29:07am
I have put an image of 1608 (50 cent Iron Lamp) matched plate blocks for plate 39159 in the Americana Folder in the Photos area. As you can see it looks like the UR and LR blocks are larger (taller) than the UL/LL plate blocks. When I measure the stamps, The Left are 21 x 25mm where the Right are 21.5 x 26.5mm. I can find no references to this. Can anyone explain this? I am now having a problem calling them matched as they definitely came from different sheets.


Image Not Found
Thanks,
Bob

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sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often

06 Jan 2013
11:09:07am
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Perhaps:

U.S. #1608
1979 50¢ Betty Lamp
Americana Series

Issue Date: September 11, 1979
City: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Printed By: Bureau of Engraving and Printing
Printing Method: Lithographed and engrave
d
Perforation: 11
Color: Tan, black and orange

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John Macco
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Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector

06 Jan 2013
11:28:29am
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

A factor to explain the different sizes of the plate blocks could be paper shrinkage or misalignment when the sheets were cut into panes. As most of you know, these stamps were printed 200 stamps per sheet and then were cut into sheets of 50 which were sent to post offices for sale. I think I am explaining this right. My terminology may be wrong.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

06 Jan 2013
11:29:16am
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Bob, unless you bought an intact pane of 100 of those stamps and broke it apart to get the matched set of four plate blocks, then yes, you'll have a hard time proving that the four plate blocks came from the same PANE.

You have to remember how these stamps were printed. They were printed in SHEETS of 400 that were cut into 4 PANES of 100 stamps each. The top two panes may have been cut on the horizontal slightly differently than the bottom two panes

Being definitive stamps, they were in service for a long period of time, and reprinted as needed. Cutters, perforaters, etc. may have had slightly different settings causing the selvedge to be of different dimensions from one printing to the next, as well as the perforations to cause the centering to be different as well.

The term MATCHED SET as relates to plate blocks, merely refers to having a plate block from all four corners showing the same plate number. To require that the plate blocks come from the same pane would be impossible to prove, and therefore that is not a criterion.

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John Macco
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Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector

06 Jan 2013
11:31:57am
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

200 stamps per sheet were commemorative size. My error.

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parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

06 Jan 2013
12:05:21pm
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I guess I was trying to establish if there is a recognized difference in size, even if only on the very specialized level. Should I be trying to find UR/LR match for the smaller UL/LL and find Larger UL/LL for the larger UR/LR? It looks odd having these blocks side by side. I know Scott would never recognize these as differences. My 2012 Durland catalog does not make any differentiation.

Thanks,
Bob

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

06 Jan 2013
12:08:21pm
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I don't think it matters, technically, for what would be considered a matched set of plate blocks. However, there is always the personal preference aspect to consider. If you want the selvedge to be the same sizes on all the plate blocks in your set, then so be it.

Then also, there is the block on the bottom left of your picture. Te centering is not the same as in appearance with the other three blocks, so that did not come from the same pane either.

I would say set your criteria as to how you want to collect matched sets of plate blocks and go with it. It is just personal preferences that seem to be the hang up.


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parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

06 Jan 2013
01:15:29pm
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

It's not so much the preference. I'm just trying to determine if there is a recognized difference among specialists for the size. It may not be in any of the catalogs. Perhaps it has been mentioned in the United States Specialist or in John Hotchner's US News in Linn's. I know they are not from the same sheet. I bought a large lot of plate blocks which were all mixed together. If I show them all together as uneven, I would like to note the difference and explain why they are different (shrinkage possibly). If there is a recognized difference I would like to find matches and have 2 pages to show the differences, hopefully with an explanation as to why they are different.

There used to be an Americana Study Group on the web but they seem to have folded.

Thanks,
Bob

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

06 Jan 2013
02:03:26pm
re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I'd contact the United States Stamp Society, since they publish the Durland Catalog and see what they think.

http://www.usstamps.org/

There is a CONTACT US link on the left side of the page.

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bulldog
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06 Jan 2013
02:11:37pm

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re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Bob,

As i look at you picture it is quite obvious that the selvedge has different widths. This would give credence to the possibility that the panes were cut differently from the larger sheets.
Terry

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Author/Postings

President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
06 Jan 2013
10:29:07am

I have put an image of 1608 (50 cent Iron Lamp) matched plate blocks for plate 39159 in the Americana Folder in the Photos area. As you can see it looks like the UR and LR blocks are larger (taller) than the UL/LL plate blocks. When I measure the stamps, The Left are 21 x 25mm where the Right are 21.5 x 26.5mm. I can find no references to this. Can anyone explain this? I am now having a problem calling them matched as they definitely came from different sheets.


Image Not Found
Thanks,
Bob

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this post

"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Members Picture
sponthetrona2

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
06 Jan 2013
11:09:07am

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Perhaps:

U.S. #1608
1979 50¢ Betty Lamp
Americana Series

Issue Date: September 11, 1979
City: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Printed By: Bureau of Engraving and Printing
Printing Method: Lithographed and engrave
d
Perforation: 11
Color: Tan, black and orange

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
John Macco

Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector
06 Jan 2013
11:28:29am

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

A factor to explain the different sizes of the plate blocks could be paper shrinkage or misalignment when the sheets were cut into panes. As most of you know, these stamps were printed 200 stamps per sheet and then were cut into sheets of 50 which were sent to post offices for sale. I think I am explaining this right. My terminology may be wrong.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
06 Jan 2013
11:29:16am

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Bob, unless you bought an intact pane of 100 of those stamps and broke it apart to get the matched set of four plate blocks, then yes, you'll have a hard time proving that the four plate blocks came from the same PANE.

You have to remember how these stamps were printed. They were printed in SHEETS of 400 that were cut into 4 PANES of 100 stamps each. The top two panes may have been cut on the horizontal slightly differently than the bottom two panes

Being definitive stamps, they were in service for a long period of time, and reprinted as needed. Cutters, perforaters, etc. may have had slightly different settings causing the selvedge to be of different dimensions from one printing to the next, as well as the perforations to cause the centering to be different as well.

The term MATCHED SET as relates to plate blocks, merely refers to having a plate block from all four corners showing the same plate number. To require that the plate blocks come from the same pane would be impossible to prove, and therefore that is not a criterion.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
John Macco

Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector
06 Jan 2013
11:31:57am

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

200 stamps per sheet were commemorative size. My error.

Like
Login to Like
this post

President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
06 Jan 2013
12:05:21pm

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I guess I was trying to establish if there is a recognized difference in size, even if only on the very specialized level. Should I be trying to find UR/LR match for the smaller UL/LL and find Larger UL/LL for the larger UR/LR? It looks odd having these blocks side by side. I know Scott would never recognize these as differences. My 2012 Durland catalog does not make any differentiation.

Thanks,
Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

www.parkinlot-stamps ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
06 Jan 2013
12:08:21pm

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I don't think it matters, technically, for what would be considered a matched set of plate blocks. However, there is always the personal preference aspect to consider. If you want the selvedge to be the same sizes on all the plate blocks in your set, then so be it.

Then also, there is the block on the bottom left of your picture. Te centering is not the same as in appearance with the other three blocks, so that did not come from the same pane either.

I would say set your criteria as to how you want to collect matched sets of plate blocks and go with it. It is just personal preferences that seem to be the hang up.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
06 Jan 2013
01:15:29pm

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

It's not so much the preference. I'm just trying to determine if there is a recognized difference among specialists for the size. It may not be in any of the catalogs. Perhaps it has been mentioned in the United States Specialist or in John Hotchner's US News in Linn's. I know they are not from the same sheet. I bought a large lot of plate blocks which were all mixed together. If I show them all together as uneven, I would like to note the difference and explain why they are different (shrinkage possibly). If there is a recognized difference I would like to find matches and have 2 pages to show the differences, hopefully with an explanation as to why they are different.

There used to be an Americana Study Group on the web but they seem to have folded.

Thanks,
Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

www.parkinlot-stamps ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
06 Jan 2013
02:03:26pm

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

I'd contact the United States Stamp Society, since they publish the Durland Catalog and see what they think.

http://www.usstamps.org/

There is a CONTACT US link on the left side of the page.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
bulldog

06 Jan 2013
02:11:37pm

Auctions

re: Different size of US 1608 Matched Plate Blocks normal?

Bob,

As i look at you picture it is quite obvious that the selvedge has different widths. This would give credence to the possibility that the panes were cut differently from the larger sheets.
Terry

Like
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