Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
can you help me identified those special overprint... "37 ?????"
an also those in the buttom: "27 ?????" and "??? 20 ???"
someone speack German......????
tank you,
Jacques (timbres: SOR ID)
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Those are local overprints made after World War II (1948) in the Russian Occupation Zone. The overprint contains the post office number (I think postal district number is more accurate; someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the name of the city. They are listed in Michel, and there are a good number of them. Most are worth a few dollars, but many have some high catalog value. They are very good if you can find them on cover.
Michel doesn't list all of the various overprints, with many listed in a footnote at the end of the section. Yours appear to fall into the footnotes.
27 - Engelsdorf
37 - Crivitz
20 - Merseburg
are three that I can easily read from what you have pictured.
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08:30:56pm
What's the chance they, or some, could be forgeries ?
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I think there is always the risk of forgeries with stamps like those. However, Michel doesn't have the "FALSCH" box in those listings (at least I didn't see it).
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Tank you Michael,
as I see, I could put those stamps in a section "Town precancel" like the US ones ???
always interesting to found something special in "stamps collecting". If annybody has other info on those stamps... I always apreciate... Tank you all.
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Hi ,
I just found an other clue in my Scott 2009 at the begining of the "DDR" section,
it's written: "When the mark was revalued in June, 1948, a provisional overprint, consisting of various city and town names and post office or zone numerals, was
applied by hand in black, violet or blue at innumerable post offices to their stocks."
Till I put the hand on a "Michel" catalog, I will be satsfied by those answerd...
Tank you everyone,
Jacques
PS: did any body have a "Michel" catalog of Germany for Sale or trade ????
(sorry for my limited english)
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Hi Jacques
I have a 1988/89 German Michael catalog if you want it, good for reference, but all in German
Lee
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Hi Lee,
of corse I am interested, can you check the shiping price an tell me with your selling
price,.... Happy to have news from you...long time we see ???
Jacques
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Jacques, those stamps are not pre-cancels like the USA stamps you eluded to. I would put them in the same class as the Kansas/Nebraska issues from the USA.
Don't worry about your English. It is much better than my French!
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These three are all listed and priced in my 1999 Michel catalogue but each has a warning indicator about forgeries:
"Faelschungen in erheblicher Menge bekannt."
i.e. "Fakes known in considerable quantity".
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The Michel catalogue also states that the catalogue values for these "Bezirkshandstempel" overprints are only for items with a clear, readable overprint that have a certificate. Otherwise one has to treat them as not hand-cancelled stamps, with the accompanying, lower, c.v. Used stamps need to have readable cancels with correct dating.
Also stated is that older certificates are of no use, as the amount of knowledge has changed. Stamps that used to be considered authentic are now often judged to be fake.
Finally, it says that many of these overprints/handcancels were produced after the official period they were authorised (which was between June 24th and July 2nd 1948), mostly by postal workers who saw a (private) profit.
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08:05:09am
" .... Also stated is that older certificates are of no use, as the amount of knowledge has changed. ...."
Does that mean that some German Experts have discovered that their considered opinions might just be a little bit faulty ?
I had some Danzig stamps examined about 30 years ago and three were returned, marked as falsch, but no reason was given. I sent off a polite letter asking for some explanation and all I could get from the Prufer was that he had no such example in his collection.
Well, while there may have been something that showed the difference between my copy and what one might suspect were genuine, having a gigantic ego is simply not enough of an answer for me.
But the stamps. less the ones that I sold, are in a folder along with the paperwork, including an examination of some similar items that were examiner by a different prufer who stated that he had never seen these items before, that they looked genuine, but since he had nothing to compare them with he would not certify them.
The whole adventure with the one "expert" made me unhappy about what had occurred.
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The text says that on this specific subject the amount of knowledge has increased considerably, and those in the know have come to new insights.
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Hi everybody,
can you help me identified those special overprint... "37 ?????"
an also those in the buttom: "27 ?????" and "??? 20 ???"
someone speack German......????
tank you,
Jacques (timbres: SOR ID)
Login to Like
this post
07:44:41pm
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Those are local overprints made after World War II (1948) in the Russian Occupation Zone. The overprint contains the post office number (I think postal district number is more accurate; someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the name of the city. They are listed in Michel, and there are a good number of them. Most are worth a few dollars, but many have some high catalog value. They are very good if you can find them on cover.
Michel doesn't list all of the various overprints, with many listed in a footnote at the end of the section. Yours appear to fall into the footnotes.
27 - Engelsdorf
37 - Crivitz
20 - Merseburg
are three that I can easily read from what you have pictured.
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Dec 2012
08:30:56pm
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
What's the chance they, or some, could be forgeries ?
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11:47:20pm
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
I think there is always the risk of forgeries with stamps like those. However, Michel doesn't have the "FALSCH" box in those listings (at least I didn't see it).
Login to Like
this post
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Tank you Michael,
as I see, I could put those stamps in a section "Town precancel" like the US ones ???
always interesting to found something special in "stamps collecting". If annybody has other info on those stamps... I always apreciate... Tank you all.
Login to Like
this post
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Hi ,
I just found an other clue in my Scott 2009 at the begining of the "DDR" section,
it's written: "When the mark was revalued in June, 1948, a provisional overprint, consisting of various city and town names and post office or zone numerals, was
applied by hand in black, violet or blue at innumerable post offices to their stocks."
Till I put the hand on a "Michel" catalog, I will be satsfied by those answerd...
Tank you everyone,
Jacques
PS: did any body have a "Michel" catalog of Germany for Sale or trade ????
(sorry for my limited english)
Login to Like
this post
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Hi Jacques
I have a 1988/89 German Michael catalog if you want it, good for reference, but all in German
Lee
Login to Like
this post
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Hi Lee,
of corse I am interested, can you check the shiping price an tell me with your selling
price,.... Happy to have news from you...long time we see ???
Jacques
Login to Like
this post
06:13:50pm
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
Jacques, those stamps are not pre-cancels like the USA stamps you eluded to. I would put them in the same class as the Kansas/Nebraska issues from the USA.
Don't worry about your English. It is much better than my French!
Login to Like
this post
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
These three are all listed and priced in my 1999 Michel catalogue but each has a warning indicator about forgeries:
"Faelschungen in erheblicher Menge bekannt."
i.e. "Fakes known in considerable quantity".
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
The Michel catalogue also states that the catalogue values for these "Bezirkshandstempel" overprints are only for items with a clear, readable overprint that have a certificate. Otherwise one has to treat them as not hand-cancelled stamps, with the accompanying, lower, c.v. Used stamps need to have readable cancels with correct dating.
Also stated is that older certificates are of no use, as the amount of knowledge has changed. Stamps that used to be considered authentic are now often judged to be fake.
Finally, it says that many of these overprints/handcancels were produced after the official period they were authorised (which was between June 24th and July 2nd 1948), mostly by postal workers who saw a (private) profit.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Dec 2012
08:05:09am
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
" .... Also stated is that older certificates are of no use, as the amount of knowledge has changed. ...."
Does that mean that some German Experts have discovered that their considered opinions might just be a little bit faulty ?
I had some Danzig stamps examined about 30 years ago and three were returned, marked as falsch, but no reason was given. I sent off a polite letter asking for some explanation and all I could get from the Prufer was that he had no such example in his collection.
Well, while there may have been something that showed the difference between my copy and what one might suspect were genuine, having a gigantic ego is simply not enough of an answer for me.
But the stamps. less the ones that I sold, are in a folder along with the paperwork, including an examination of some similar items that were examiner by a different prufer who stated that he had never seen these items before, that they looked genuine, but since he had nothing to compare them with he would not certify them.
The whole adventure with the one "expert" made me unhappy about what had occurred.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: East Germany: stamp identification Bezirkshandstempel overprints
The text says that on this specific subject the amount of knowledge has increased considerably, and those in the know have come to new insights.
Login to Like
this post