Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Any help, tips, tricks or short cuts from knowledgeable SOR members on this topic will be appreciated.
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Well, partner, you're certainly not the Lone Ranger on this one. The entire series can be problematic. Where some are easy to discern, others are just horrible. One "cheat sheet" of sorts, if you can still find it is the old slide rule styled "Easy Way US Stamp Identifier". I use it religiously for Washington/Franklins. It has been long out of production, but sometimes they show up in box lots.
It works very simply. Identify the denomination, then the type. Then measure the perforations, and it gives you the Scott Catalog number(s) that it could be. It generally gets simple from there as what catalog number it could be gets much smaller and takes away some of the aggravation. Unfortunately those one, two and three centers can still be a pain despite the tool, but you will be able to rule out what catalog numbers are not correct.
As for making the final call when the stamp is one of several possible catalog numbers, it is going to take some work and eye strain. Best not to work on alot of them at one time, because your eyes will get tired, and you could see things that aren't there and make the wrong call.
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02:58:10am
I don't know if this will work for the Washington/Franklin issues but I've often found the best way to see things like counting the number of lines or dots or trying to see if a tiny spot is shaded, is to scan the stamp savings then open it up in a picture editing program like the free ones in Windows or on Macs and magnify it. It has solved many mysteries for me.
Good luck, out of all the stamps ever seen those ones have always been my nightmare. 
Kelly
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I can typically rule out all but 2 or 3 type possibilities by using a 1200DPI scan of the stamp and looking at watermarks, printing types and perfs. Other challenges are the stamps have cancels that cover one of more of the clues. I don't expect I will be able to identify all the Washington’s but one of each type would be great.
The problem with scanning is sometimes I see things I don't normally see even with a magnify glass. I see 5 lines in the button then scan it and only see 4 lines. I think there is shading on the ribbons but I scan it and the shading is gone.
I know there are a few members who thrive on the challenge identifying these 1912-1920 types that are amused with my frustration
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One of the first steps in identifying these is to determine if the stamp was printed on an engraved plate or by offset printing.
STEP 1 : Run your fingers on the stamp and feel for ridges in the design. If you feel textured ridges it is because a plate printing causes ridges in the ink giving you the clue. If the stamp is smooth and slick to the touch it is offset. Another clue is offset prints are not as sharp and clear as plate prints. Also the ink is blurry or mottled on offsets. A test you can perform is to take a piece of thin aluminum foil shiny side down on the stamp and burnish it with your finger or use a burnisher or eraser. If an image of the stamp appears it is a plate print.
STEP 2 : Now you must determine which steel plate type was used, either a rotary or flat plate. The key here is in measurements. Flat plate stamp designs measure 18-19mm X 22 MM. Rotary prints are slightly bigger in either direction almost 1mm depending on the direction it rolled.So if you have 19+mm X 22mm, or, 18-19mm X 22+mm you have a rotary pressed stamp.
I hope this helps
John
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Have you tried this site?
Dan C.
http://www.1847usa.com/Banner1200.jpg
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Dan, I tried that site you suggested, but all I saw was a heading, nothing else!!!!!
Michael,
We just had a member do a wonderful presentation on this very subject, over two meetings at our local stamp club. Very well put together, very informative and well worth the time spent listening. He has obviously spent many hours, days, weeks, years, putting this "fail safe information" together and has a tutorial available on this very subject, at a very resonable price, that would save any collector tremendous amounts of time trying to solve this myster that gets us all at one time or another. We are having our monthly meeting tomorrow night, Tuesday, so I should be able to get any information you might need about this subject if you would be interested in it.
(capestampman@aol.com)
Mike
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Thanks for all the excellent advice. John I am going to try the "foil proof" method you suggested.
I have been on several websites but the graphics and the examples only furthered my confusion. I spent a few hours on this site as well.
http://www.stampmasteralbum.com/USIdentifier/Types1_7Wash1912_20.htm
You would since we can compare and ID finger prints and identify counterfeit currency that by now someone would have invented a similar application for identifying stamps.
Mike I am looking forward do reading your club mates presentation material.
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If you need the list of off sets and stell plate printed stamps I can provide that for you.
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John thanks the more knowledge I have the better. Is this something that could be posted on Stamporama for other members to reference? 
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My apologies-I was careless. Try this one:
http://www.1847usa.com/1981identifier.htm
Dan C.
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HA HA DAN. Good sense of humor!
Mike,
Dan is goofing around, I guess, but the chart is there at:
http://www.1847usa.com/1908WashingtonIdentifier.htm
John
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OK then let's move on to another method to distinguish between Flat Plate (FP) and Rotary Press (RP) is an old one suggested years ago by Bill Bomar, who recommended cutting a cheap set one of each in half vertically . Paste them and label them as your guide sheet on an index card.
STEP 3
There are various perfs in the series. The series began with 12 perfs but that proved problematic with separations too easily on both sheets and coils. Scott #536 had 12.5 perfs produced on Rosback machine, which are easy to identify being the smallest perfs you will ever see in a 20th cent US stamp. This is the easiest one to I.D.
Experimental phase reduced the prefs to 8.5. Obviously it did not work out. Next experiment was at 10 perfs, good for coils, not so good for sheets. Lead to final solution 10 perfs for coils and 11 perfs for sheets.
Scott #538, 539, 540 also easy to I.D. because of the odd perfs 11 X 10 produced by vertical coil (VC) 10 perfs being perfed 11 horizontally.
to be continued
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Dear Guys,
Apparently I can access it on my computer, and when I click on the site and try to copy the URL I'm doing something wrong. Sorry for any confusion caused by my fumbling.
Dan C.
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Sorry Dan. I thought wrongly that you were just having some good clean fun while prodding Mike to look at the site. I apologize if you were offended. There was no intent to do that. I thought we were all just having fun. I too find the new technology does very quirky stuff and you have to check everything all the time. What ever happened to "User Friendly" computers and programs? Sorry about the mix-up. John
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Dear John,
No offense taken-just my computer illiteracy rearing its ugly head
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
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This is another time I wished there was a stamp club near to where I live. I have been racking my brain and straining my eyesight trying to sort out my pile of Washington’s. I have been to the web sites, read the literature (Scotts too) looked at the pictures only to look at the stamps a day later and come up with a different conclusion. I figure the trick is deduction but without clear high resolution examples to compare the different types it is difficult for me to make a confident decision.
Any help, tips, tricks or short cuts from knowledgeable SOR members on this topic will be appreciated.
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02:11:32am
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Well, partner, you're certainly not the Lone Ranger on this one. The entire series can be problematic. Where some are easy to discern, others are just horrible. One "cheat sheet" of sorts, if you can still find it is the old slide rule styled "Easy Way US Stamp Identifier". I use it religiously for Washington/Franklins. It has been long out of production, but sometimes they show up in box lots.
It works very simply. Identify the denomination, then the type. Then measure the perforations, and it gives you the Scott Catalog number(s) that it could be. It generally gets simple from there as what catalog number it could be gets much smaller and takes away some of the aggravation. Unfortunately those one, two and three centers can still be a pain despite the tool, but you will be able to rule out what catalog numbers are not correct.
As for making the final call when the stamp is one of several possible catalog numbers, it is going to take some work and eye strain. Best not to work on alot of them at one time, because your eyes will get tired, and you could see things that aren't there and make the wrong call.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
16 Oct 2012
02:58:10am
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
I don't know if this will work for the Washington/Franklin issues but I've often found the best way to see things like counting the number of lines or dots or trying to see if a tiny spot is shaded, is to scan the stamp savings then open it up in a picture editing program like the free ones in Windows or on Macs and magnify it. It has solved many mysteries for me.
Good luck, out of all the stamps ever seen those ones have always been my nightmare.
Kelly
Login to Like
this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
I can typically rule out all but 2 or 3 type possibilities by using a 1200DPI scan of the stamp and looking at watermarks, printing types and perfs. Other challenges are the stamps have cancels that cover one of more of the clues. I don't expect I will be able to identify all the Washington’s but one of each type would be great.
The problem with scanning is sometimes I see things I don't normally see even with a magnify glass. I see 5 lines in the button then scan it and only see 4 lines. I think there is shading on the ribbons but I scan it and the shading is gone.
I know there are a few members who thrive on the challenge identifying these 1912-1920 types that are amused with my frustration
Login to Like
this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
One of the first steps in identifying these is to determine if the stamp was printed on an engraved plate or by offset printing.
STEP 1 : Run your fingers on the stamp and feel for ridges in the design. If you feel textured ridges it is because a plate printing causes ridges in the ink giving you the clue. If the stamp is smooth and slick to the touch it is offset. Another clue is offset prints are not as sharp and clear as plate prints. Also the ink is blurry or mottled on offsets. A test you can perform is to take a piece of thin aluminum foil shiny side down on the stamp and burnish it with your finger or use a burnisher or eraser. If an image of the stamp appears it is a plate print.
STEP 2 : Now you must determine which steel plate type was used, either a rotary or flat plate. The key here is in measurements. Flat plate stamp designs measure 18-19mm X 22 MM. Rotary prints are slightly bigger in either direction almost 1mm depending on the direction it rolled.So if you have 19+mm X 22mm, or, 18-19mm X 22+mm you have a rotary pressed stamp.
I hope this helps
John
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like this post.
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re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Have you tried this site?
Dan C.
http://www.1847usa.com/Banner1200.jpg
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this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Dan, I tried that site you suggested, but all I saw was a heading, nothing else!!!!!
Michael,
We just had a member do a wonderful presentation on this very subject, over two meetings at our local stamp club. Very well put together, very informative and well worth the time spent listening. He has obviously spent many hours, days, weeks, years, putting this "fail safe information" together and has a tutorial available on this very subject, at a very resonable price, that would save any collector tremendous amounts of time trying to solve this myster that gets us all at one time or another. We are having our monthly meeting tomorrow night, Tuesday, so I should be able to get any information you might need about this subject if you would be interested in it.
(capestampman@aol.com)
Mike
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re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Thanks for all the excellent advice. John I am going to try the "foil proof" method you suggested.
I have been on several websites but the graphics and the examples only furthered my confusion. I spent a few hours on this site as well.
http://www.stampmasteralbum.com/USIdentifier/Types1_7Wash1912_20.htm
You would since we can compare and ID finger prints and identify counterfeit currency that by now someone would have invented a similar application for identifying stamps.
Mike I am looking forward do reading your club mates presentation material.
Login to Like
this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
If you need the list of off sets and stell plate printed stamps I can provide that for you.
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this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
John thanks the more knowledge I have the better. Is this something that could be posted on Stamporama for other members to reference?
Login to Like
this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
My apologies-I was careless. Try this one:
http://www.1847usa.com/1981identifier.htm
Dan C.
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re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
HA HA DAN. Good sense of humor!
Mike,
Dan is goofing around, I guess, but the chart is there at:
http://www.1847usa.com/1908WashingtonIdentifier.htm
John
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this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
OK then let's move on to another method to distinguish between Flat Plate (FP) and Rotary Press (RP) is an old one suggested years ago by Bill Bomar, who recommended cutting a cheap set one of each in half vertically . Paste them and label them as your guide sheet on an index card.
STEP 3
There are various perfs in the series. The series began with 12 perfs but that proved problematic with separations too easily on both sheets and coils. Scott #536 had 12.5 perfs produced on Rosback machine, which are easy to identify being the smallest perfs you will ever see in a 20th cent US stamp. This is the easiest one to I.D.
Experimental phase reduced the prefs to 8.5. Obviously it did not work out. Next experiment was at 10 perfs, good for coils, not so good for sheets. Lead to final solution 10 perfs for coils and 11 perfs for sheets.
Scott #538, 539, 540 also easy to I.D. because of the odd perfs 11 X 10 produced by vertical coil (VC) 10 perfs being perfed 11 horizontally.
to be continued
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this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Dear Guys,
Apparently I can access it on my computer, and when I click on the site and try to copy the URL I'm doing something wrong. Sorry for any confusion caused by my fumbling.
Dan C.
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this post
re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Sorry Dan. I thought wrongly that you were just having some good clean fun while prodding Mike to look at the site. I apologize if you were offended. There was no intent to do that. I thought we were all just having fun. I too find the new technology does very quirky stuff and you have to check everything all the time. What ever happened to "User Friendly" computers and programs? Sorry about the mix-up. John
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re: US Washingtons 1912-20 Types 1-7 Tutoring Needed
Dear John,
No offense taken-just my computer illiteracy rearing its ugly head
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
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