Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
But on a serious note, I have seen an endless amount of chatter here about stamps in "uncut" sheets, pages, etc. and imperf(s).
Curious as to why the fascination with these. I am new here and I guess at this point of my collecting, a stamp is a stamp (whether perf'd or unperf'd)
Please don't beat me up too bad
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Clayton,
good question. I think there are several issues, depending on whose writing. I believe they include the desire for completeness (either independently or as determined by Scott); Scott's listing them; Scott's listing policies; the meteoric rise of some early predecessor uncut sheets; and the wisdom, or its absence, from the USPS stamp program and its consistency, or absence.
David
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I notice that most of the complaints seem to come from those who feel they are "forced" to purchase these variants in order to maintain a complete collection. Unfortunately, as with almost any business transaction, if you complain about something and still fork over the money, the complaint will be ignored. The most effective votes in the world are best made with one's wallet.
For my part, it's just a simple decision to collect a single stamp of any new issue (when I can find it). I realize that for some collector mentalities, this is easier said than done, so please take my statements as just observation, not criticism.
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Dear Joeg,
I think you may be missing an ingredient suggested by David-basically the 'eye of the beholder'. From your perspective, you set a goal and go for it-case closed. The missing ingredient is the complaining/moaning/upset and even anger that accompanies one's decision. As stamp collectors, we reserve the right to grump and complain-it is a part of our hobby that allows for the release of pent up emotions that might not be able to be expressed in other venues.
In the overall scheme of things does it really matter-of course not. But is the release of value-I'd argue that it really is. This is the car drivers yelling at the idiot that cuts him off- you get the analogy.
In the larger order of things, the ability to upset one's spouse no end about our obsession is priceless, is it not? Just saying!
Welcome to a lifelong hobby with many twists and turns. I've been at it over 70+ years, and continue to find it most entertaining and personally satisfying.
Dan C.
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My wife has learned to maintain an amused tolerance at most of my oddities, including "stamping" as she calls it. I'm assuming it's because of my stunningly good looks.
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Joe that has to be the reason no doubt
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My darling wife Alison has, over the years, perfected the art of saying, "that's wonderful dear", whenever I emerge from my man cave, all excited about some small improvement I have made to Stamporama, or some new stamp or cover I have won in the auction. It truly is a marvelous tallent she has.
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Hi Clayton,
I am the one started the hype about Uncut Press Sheets here at SOR. I was burned once by these inconsistent policies of USPS and Scott therefore to be on the safer side I've started buying pairs of these stamps and will buy the Santa block of 4 and Cloudscapes full imperf pane when they show up at auctions. Check out the messages at VSC to get the full picture.
There was one booklet(Scott #3138)featuring Bugs Bunny stamps issued by USPS in 1997 - this was not sold through Post Offices but only through mail order service. This booklet has two panes - the left side has 9 stamps which were die cut (perforated) while the right side pane only has a single stamp which was without die cuts (imperforate). At the time of issue many people got these for 20-30% above face value from dealers. But most like me waited for the hype to settle down and for these booklets to be available at lower prices. But it was not ot be - current prices of these booklets range from US $80-$125. I have this gaping hole in my modern US collection which I can only blame on myself.
Of course there are other gaps like the recalled 2869, the John Paul Jones perforation variety but these were not missed like the Bugs booklet. Therefore the current Imperforate or without die cut stamps are worrying me, I live in India and if I missed them now and whether these are included in Scott I will have to wait a long time and pay a lot more than I'm paying now for these.
My modern US collection has a bit more depth with tagging, paper, Bureau precancel, perforation, date, and any minor Scott US Specialized listing varieties. I do not collect EFOs but what I do is giving me immense pleasure and heartache at the same time ;-)
As for the tangential topic - My wife is pleased with my hobby because she knows where I am all the time but she also hates it because of the preference it gets
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Just FYI, the September 17 issue of Linn's with the new issues has values for the baseball sheets, gutters, etc. They are footnoted without catalog numbers.
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01:09:42am
" .... My darling wife Alison has, over the years, perfected the art of saying, "that's wonderful dear", ...."
Well I know that response all right.
" .... Look Honey, I just found a genuine private cover with an Inverted Jenny used for postage that was put on upside down so the Jenny looked right, cancelled on the Hindenberg's first round trip flight !!! ...."
She smiles, stops reading her battered copy of the fourth Stieg Larsson mystery, for almost twenty seconds and then returns to the secret bootlgged novl about some mass murder in Uppsala.
Oh yes, I know that response.
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I understand the a sheet of stamps, "un-intentionally" uncut, due to mistake or equipment malfunction would be worth more as an "error" (?) But am I understanding it right when some a now collecting sheets because they are uncut, intentionally....
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Yes, people are collecting them as variations of the issued perfed stamps. Since they are restricted in their distribution, Scott will only footnote them and not give them a catalog number.
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Clayton, there's long been a history of this. The Farleys (named after FDR's postmaster general, James Farley) are another example of previously perfed issues offered as imperfs.
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The uncut sheets etc that the USPS is issuing is reminiscent of the Farley special printings. Farley used the first press runs to create special imperforate sheets which he autographed and presented to President Roosevelt and other favorites. When these unique philatelic properties begin appearing on the market, collectors begin to complain that the favorites could profit from their unique positions in the administration. Congress forced the Post Office Department to reissue the stamps in special printings. I suspect that most of them were snapped up by dealers as investment pieces, judging from the number of full uncut sheets that are appearing on today's market some 80 years later.
One of the attractions of collecting US postage stamps was that they were for postal use unlike many of the eastern European nations, developing countries, and British Commonwealth who issued stamps for collectors. When we rejected their mint stamps for postally used copies then we got CTO stamps flooding the market. First Day cover collecting became popular because of the value we placed on postal history. Now even USPS markets philatelic FDC's in their boutiques for an ever dwindling number of collectors. I seriously doubt that today's junk will be tomorrow's treasure simply because of the rule of supply and demand.
I kind of wish that USPS would not create products for collectors, and stick to delivering the mail.
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hear hear
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12:12:36pm
While I fully subscribe to the dictum "Collect what you want to."personally I have to struggle not to roll my eyes at these contrived souvenirs that are closer to the over promoted droppings of the Franklin Mint than actual collectables.
But good luck with collecting them.
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and mounting them
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Conversely, the recent US imperfs are sold at face value, postally valid, and available nationwide at www.usps.com - as far as I can tell, only the baseball sheets with all four players sold out, the single player sheets and any newer sheets are still for sale. I bought a Larry Doby sheet and have been cutting with scissors and using for my outgoing mail.
Josh
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And yes... we know what it killed
But on a serious note, I have seen an endless amount of chatter here about stamps in "uncut" sheets, pages, etc. and imperf(s).
Curious as to why the fascination with these. I am new here and I guess at this point of my collecting, a stamp is a stamp (whether perf'd or unperf'd)
Please don't beat me up too bad
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Clayton,
good question. I think there are several issues, depending on whose writing. I believe they include the desire for completeness (either independently or as determined by Scott); Scott's listing them; Scott's listing policies; the meteoric rise of some early predecessor uncut sheets; and the wisdom, or its absence, from the USPS stamp program and its consistency, or absence.
David
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
I notice that most of the complaints seem to come from those who feel they are "forced" to purchase these variants in order to maintain a complete collection. Unfortunately, as with almost any business transaction, if you complain about something and still fork over the money, the complaint will be ignored. The most effective votes in the world are best made with one's wallet.
For my part, it's just a simple decision to collect a single stamp of any new issue (when I can find it). I realize that for some collector mentalities, this is easier said than done, so please take my statements as just observation, not criticism.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Dear Joeg,
I think you may be missing an ingredient suggested by David-basically the 'eye of the beholder'. From your perspective, you set a goal and go for it-case closed. The missing ingredient is the complaining/moaning/upset and even anger that accompanies one's decision. As stamp collectors, we reserve the right to grump and complain-it is a part of our hobby that allows for the release of pent up emotions that might not be able to be expressed in other venues.
In the overall scheme of things does it really matter-of course not. But is the release of value-I'd argue that it really is. This is the car drivers yelling at the idiot that cuts him off- you get the analogy.
In the larger order of things, the ability to upset one's spouse no end about our obsession is priceless, is it not? Just saying!
Welcome to a lifelong hobby with many twists and turns. I've been at it over 70+ years, and continue to find it most entertaining and personally satisfying.
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
My wife has learned to maintain an amused tolerance at most of my oddities, including "stamping" as she calls it. I'm assuming it's because of my stunningly good looks.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Joe that has to be the reason no doubt
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
My darling wife Alison has, over the years, perfected the art of saying, "that's wonderful dear", whenever I emerge from my man cave, all excited about some small improvement I have made to Stamporama, or some new stamp or cover I have won in the auction. It truly is a marvelous tallent she has.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Hi Clayton,
I am the one started the hype about Uncut Press Sheets here at SOR. I was burned once by these inconsistent policies of USPS and Scott therefore to be on the safer side I've started buying pairs of these stamps and will buy the Santa block of 4 and Cloudscapes full imperf pane when they show up at auctions. Check out the messages at VSC to get the full picture.
There was one booklet(Scott #3138)featuring Bugs Bunny stamps issued by USPS in 1997 - this was not sold through Post Offices but only through mail order service. This booklet has two panes - the left side has 9 stamps which were die cut (perforated) while the right side pane only has a single stamp which was without die cuts (imperforate). At the time of issue many people got these for 20-30% above face value from dealers. But most like me waited for the hype to settle down and for these booklets to be available at lower prices. But it was not ot be - current prices of these booklets range from US $80-$125. I have this gaping hole in my modern US collection which I can only blame on myself.
Of course there are other gaps like the recalled 2869, the John Paul Jones perforation variety but these were not missed like the Bugs booklet. Therefore the current Imperforate or without die cut stamps are worrying me, I live in India and if I missed them now and whether these are included in Scott I will have to wait a long time and pay a lot more than I'm paying now for these.
My modern US collection has a bit more depth with tagging, paper, Bureau precancel, perforation, date, and any minor Scott US Specialized listing varieties. I do not collect EFOs but what I do is giving me immense pleasure and heartache at the same time ;-)
As for the tangential topic - My wife is pleased with my hobby because she knows where I am all the time but she also hates it because of the preference it gets
Login to Like
this post
11:47:05pm
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Just FYI, the September 17 issue of Linn's with the new issues has values for the baseball sheets, gutters, etc. They are footnoted without catalog numbers.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Sep 2012
01:09:42am
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
" .... My darling wife Alison has, over the years, perfected the art of saying, "that's wonderful dear", ...."
Well I know that response all right.
" .... Look Honey, I just found a genuine private cover with an Inverted Jenny used for postage that was put on upside down so the Jenny looked right, cancelled on the Hindenberg's first round trip flight !!! ...."
She smiles, stops reading her battered copy of the fourth Stieg Larsson mystery, for almost twenty seconds and then returns to the secret bootlgged novl about some mass murder in Uppsala.
Oh yes, I know that response.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
I understand the a sheet of stamps, "un-intentionally" uncut, due to mistake or equipment malfunction would be worth more as an "error" (?) But am I understanding it right when some a now collecting sheets because they are uncut, intentionally....
Login to Like
this post
12:41:25pm
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Yes, people are collecting them as variations of the issued perfed stamps. Since they are restricted in their distribution, Scott will only footnote them and not give them a catalog number.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Clayton, there's long been a history of this. The Farleys (named after FDR's postmaster general, James Farley) are another example of previously perfed issues offered as imperfs.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
The uncut sheets etc that the USPS is issuing is reminiscent of the Farley special printings. Farley used the first press runs to create special imperforate sheets which he autographed and presented to President Roosevelt and other favorites. When these unique philatelic properties begin appearing on the market, collectors begin to complain that the favorites could profit from their unique positions in the administration. Congress forced the Post Office Department to reissue the stamps in special printings. I suspect that most of them were snapped up by dealers as investment pieces, judging from the number of full uncut sheets that are appearing on today's market some 80 years later.
One of the attractions of collecting US postage stamps was that they were for postal use unlike many of the eastern European nations, developing countries, and British Commonwealth who issued stamps for collectors. When we rejected their mint stamps for postally used copies then we got CTO stamps flooding the market. First Day cover collecting became popular because of the value we placed on postal history. Now even USPS markets philatelic FDC's in their boutiques for an ever dwindling number of collectors. I seriously doubt that today's junk will be tomorrow's treasure simply because of the rule of supply and demand.
I kind of wish that USPS would not create products for collectors, and stick to delivering the mail.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
hear hear
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Sep 2012
12:12:36pm
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
While I fully subscribe to the dictum "Collect what you want to."personally I have to struggle not to roll my eyes at these contrived souvenirs that are closer to the over promoted droppings of the Franklin Mint than actual collectables.
But good luck with collecting them.
Login to Like
this post
re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
and mounting them
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re: Curiosity on different types of stamp formats
Conversely, the recent US imperfs are sold at face value, postally valid, and available nationwide at www.usps.com - as far as I can tell, only the baseball sheets with all four players sold out, the single player sheets and any newer sheets are still for sale. I bought a Larry Doby sheet and have been cutting with scissors and using for my outgoing mail.
Josh
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