Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
01:01:02am
Kelly
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04:52:06pm
Since you can usually identify the forger due to the design I don't generally have any troubles but these three have me stumped - it's probably just from looking at them for so long that I'm just missing a tiny detail that would identify the forger. I don't think they are Fournier and I'm pretty sure Spiro didn't do the shilling issue. I have a Howard Sanderson that matches the NS 7 with that colouring, quite easily identifiable. The other 3 are definitely forgeries of NS 6 with the colouring being reddish purple as opposed to the violet of NS 7. I don't think Oneglia created a NS 6 forgery, from what I understand the Oneglia mirrors NS 7 in colouring. The thing is these are not crude forgeries (which makes the identifying harder). There must be a subtle mistake in the crowns, flowers or numbering. So, if anyone has experience with these, just give me a holler because they are driving me nuts and will continue to do so until I can settle my mind with some identifying info that I appear to be missing. Even if you can't identify the forger, maybe someone can point out the area that identifies it as a forgery (crowns, flowers, numbering, etc). I'll definitely put up the scans if there is someone who can help out or just message me and I'll send the scans privately.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Kelly
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Kelly,
You will probably get a better response if you just go ahead and show the scans, so everyone will be able to figure out if they can help, or not. It's very hard to IMAGINE what a counterfeit stamp might look like.
Good luck!
Mike 
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07:27:40pm
Mike - good point!
Will do that for sure - call it brain malfunction :-D
Kelly
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09:14:57pm
Ok here are the scans. (Scott #s used in this reference)
The single is a Forgery of NS 7 (I believe it is a Howard Sanderson, off-hand it looks like a Fournier but I don't think Fournier ever made a shilling forgery)
The following three are Forgeries of NS 6 (at least they certainly are supposed to be!
)
The irony is, I can spot the NS 7 as a definite forgery but as I said, I'm stumped on the NS 6s. They do not appear to be photographic reproductions at all.
Identifying marks of a NS forgery: (I know that you can't do see measurements via a scan)
1. A design flaw of a 1mm line that extends from the right hand leaf of the thistle (under "A" of SCOTIA) into the uncoloured background area
or
2. The diamond to the left of the rose and to the right of the shamrock are missing
or
3. Lettering differs from the genuine in an obvious way in the value tablet
So, for all you NS experts out there - please feel free to add your input.
I can't upload the picture from the Scott catalogue because it is so tiny that it just gets distorted.
Kelly
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1 - if these are lithographed, they are counterfeits.
2 - If engraved:
a - originals are on blue paper
b - original dies printed on white paper are reprints
c - forgeries were printed on white paper in blocks of four
d - original #6 measures 22 1/3 mm x 22 mm high (place the stamp with "SCOTIA" on top to measure correctly like you have them in your picture)
e - forgeries are too large, measuring 23.5 mm x 23 mm high (place the stamp with "SCOTIA" on top to measure correctly)
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12:12:01am
They are not lithographs - definitely engraved. There's no doubt in my mind they are forgeries, my question is really about identifying the designer. I know some didn't take credit & the main ones were Fournier, Oneglia, Spiro & Howard Sanderson who I believe only reproduced the shilling issue.
The middle one appears to be bluish paper from the front but unlike my genuine pence issues, it has white paper on the back.
The paper isn't thick enough to be reprints. Also, from what I understand the shilling reproduced in the reprints was a black violet unlike the reddish purple of Scott #6 or the violet of Scott #7.
I'll do the measurements tmw but as I said my main stumbling block is identifying the designer. Most had particular signs in the way they recreated the crowns, flowers, lettering, etc. And I feel like I'm missing that design glitch each time I look them over. It's got to be there, I'm just not seeing it.
Also, what do you think of the cancellation on the NS 7 Forgery? It appears to be a Spiro & yet the design of the stamp doesn't match Spiro but matches Howard Sanderson.
** Correction - the cancellation appears to be Fournier (not Spiro) but the design does not match Fournier **
Kelly
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When I purchased these I was told they were original #6 & #7 N.S. Should I be worried? I've dealt with this dealer before and never had a problem. Perry
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04:25:23pm
Perry - as you know a good dealer who has known you in the past is a probably pretty trustworthy in that. The hardest thing about the shilling issue is that it is harder to identify colour-wise - but I'd say if it's got blue paper that visible from the back, you're on pretty safe ground. I'm going to see if I can blow up your scans a bit more to take a look at them. I can usually spot the forgery of the NS pence - although I'm obviously not an expert (as I said, for me, part of my interest in the forgeries is finding out the designer).
The colouring looks good (of course scans are always hard to clarify colouring). The cancellation on your NS 6 looks genuine - it doesn't match any of my references on forged cancellations. Awesome copy with the four wide margins, that's a great find!
Remember there were two separate printings of the 3p, 6p and 1sh - 1851 and 1857.
Scott lists them in this order #2 (1857), #3 (1851), #4 (1851), #5 (1857), #6 (1857), #7 (1851).
Will take a better look at them later - hopefully you're right and congrats on an awesome find!
Kelly
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I have all the early N. S. stamps as my family is Canadian. I sure hope they are not forgeries.
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Since Kelly's examples appear to be on white paper, I did not mention the blue paper forgeries.
Perry, your dark green 6p may be a reprint, but you need to check the dimensions given previously for the white paper forgeries.
The dimensions of the blue paper forgeries are: 22.5 mm x 22 mm. There also are a series of dots under the "I" of Scotia and "A" of Nova that are not present on the originals.
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07:25:30pm
Nova Scotia is my love too - I don't have the genuine 6 & 7 but I have the others & the forgeries of some of them as well. The one pence is easy to identify as genuine or forgery due to the shape of the head - it's the 3p, 6p & shilling because some are very subtle errors (still trying to locate the errors on mine that are supposed to be forgeries). The first mark is the paper colour & the second is the size as Michael mentioned. After that, look for errors in the printing style, shape of the numbers, extensions in lines into the corner boxes, symmetry of the crowns, etc.
Kelly
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07:28:22pm
Perry,
I was thinking the same thing about your dark green as Michael was - re: being a reprint. What is the paper like on the that one?
Kelly
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07:31:15pm
Michael -
I was unaware of the bluish paper on forgeries - is it a lighter blue as opposed to the regular colour seen in the genuine ones? What is the paper like texturally in comparison to the bluish paper of the genuine ones?
Kelly
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The blue paper is within tolerances of the originals. The engraving is not as good, but is close. My source for this information is The Serranne Guide.
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Time to revive this thread - great collection Perry, especially the No.1 
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Here is my only Nova Scotia from the diamond or (square) series.
I believe it is no.3. The margins are clear all around - as tight as you can get them!
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Here's a great source for a comparative identification of these issue's.
http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/NovaScotia/NS00.htm
Ross
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
04 Jun 2012
01:01:02am
Anyone here have experience with NS Forgeries? I've identified most of mine but a bit stumped on some of my NS 6's. I'll post the scans if anyone is able to help me out.
Kelly
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
05 Jun 2012
04:52:06pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Since you can usually identify the forger due to the design I don't generally have any troubles but these three have me stumped - it's probably just from looking at them for so long that I'm just missing a tiny detail that would identify the forger. I don't think they are Fournier and I'm pretty sure Spiro didn't do the shilling issue. I have a Howard Sanderson that matches the NS 7 with that colouring, quite easily identifiable. The other 3 are definitely forgeries of NS 6 with the colouring being reddish purple as opposed to the violet of NS 7. I don't think Oneglia created a NS 6 forgery, from what I understand the Oneglia mirrors NS 7 in colouring. The thing is these are not crude forgeries (which makes the identifying harder). There must be a subtle mistake in the crowns, flowers or numbering. So, if anyone has experience with these, just give me a holler because they are driving me nuts and will continue to do so until I can settle my mind with some identifying info that I appear to be missing. Even if you can't identify the forger, maybe someone can point out the area that identifies it as a forgery (crowns, flowers, numbering, etc). I'll definitely put up the scans if there is someone who can help out or just message me and I'll send the scans privately.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Kelly
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re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Kelly,
You will probably get a better response if you just go ahead and show the scans, so everyone will be able to figure out if they can help, or not. It's very hard to IMAGINE what a counterfeit stamp might look like.
Good luck!
Mike
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
05 Jun 2012
07:27:40pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Mike - good point!
Will do that for sure - call it brain malfunction :-D
Kelly
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
05 Jun 2012
09:14:57pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Ok here are the scans. (Scott #s used in this reference)
The single is a Forgery of NS 7 (I believe it is a Howard Sanderson, off-hand it looks like a Fournier but I don't think Fournier ever made a shilling forgery)
The following three are Forgeries of NS 6 (at least they certainly are supposed to be!)
The irony is, I can spot the NS 7 as a definite forgery but as I said, I'm stumped on the NS 6s. They do not appear to be photographic reproductions at all.
Identifying marks of a NS forgery: (I know that you can't do see measurements via a scan)
1. A design flaw of a 1mm line that extends from the right hand leaf of the thistle (under "A" of SCOTIA) into the uncoloured background area
or
2. The diamond to the left of the rose and to the right of the shamrock are missing
or
3. Lettering differs from the genuine in an obvious way in the value tablet
So, for all you NS experts out there - please feel free to add your input.
I can't upload the picture from the Scott catalogue because it is so tiny that it just gets distorted.
Kelly
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11:26:41pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
1 - if these are lithographed, they are counterfeits.
2 - If engraved:
a - originals are on blue paper
b - original dies printed on white paper are reprints
c - forgeries were printed on white paper in blocks of four
d - original #6 measures 22 1/3 mm x 22 mm high (place the stamp with "SCOTIA" on top to measure correctly like you have them in your picture)
e - forgeries are too large, measuring 23.5 mm x 23 mm high (place the stamp with "SCOTIA" on top to measure correctly)
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
06 Jun 2012
12:12:01am
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
They are not lithographs - definitely engraved. There's no doubt in my mind they are forgeries, my question is really about identifying the designer. I know some didn't take credit & the main ones were Fournier, Oneglia, Spiro & Howard Sanderson who I believe only reproduced the shilling issue.
The middle one appears to be bluish paper from the front but unlike my genuine pence issues, it has white paper on the back.
The paper isn't thick enough to be reprints. Also, from what I understand the shilling reproduced in the reprints was a black violet unlike the reddish purple of Scott #6 or the violet of Scott #7.
I'll do the measurements tmw but as I said my main stumbling block is identifying the designer. Most had particular signs in the way they recreated the crowns, flowers, lettering, etc. And I feel like I'm missing that design glitch each time I look them over. It's got to be there, I'm just not seeing it.
Also, what do you think of the cancellation on the NS 7 Forgery? It appears to be a Spiro & yet the design of the stamp doesn't match Spiro but matches Howard Sanderson.
** Correction - the cancellation appears to be Fournier (not Spiro) but the design does not match Fournier **
Kelly
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re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
When I purchased these I was told they were original #6 & #7 N.S. Should I be worried? I've dealt with this dealer before and never had a problem. Perry
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
06 Jun 2012
04:25:23pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Perry - as you know a good dealer who has known you in the past is a probably pretty trustworthy in that. The hardest thing about the shilling issue is that it is harder to identify colour-wise - but I'd say if it's got blue paper that visible from the back, you're on pretty safe ground. I'm going to see if I can blow up your scans a bit more to take a look at them. I can usually spot the forgery of the NS pence - although I'm obviously not an expert (as I said, for me, part of my interest in the forgeries is finding out the designer).
The colouring looks good (of course scans are always hard to clarify colouring). The cancellation on your NS 6 looks genuine - it doesn't match any of my references on forged cancellations. Awesome copy with the four wide margins, that's a great find!
Remember there were two separate printings of the 3p, 6p and 1sh - 1851 and 1857.
Scott lists them in this order #2 (1857), #3 (1851), #4 (1851), #5 (1857), #6 (1857), #7 (1851).
Will take a better look at them later - hopefully you're right and congrats on an awesome find!
Kelly
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re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
I have all the early N. S. stamps as my family is Canadian. I sure hope they are not forgeries.
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07:13:59pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Since Kelly's examples appear to be on white paper, I did not mention the blue paper forgeries.
Perry, your dark green 6p may be a reprint, but you need to check the dimensions given previously for the white paper forgeries.
The dimensions of the blue paper forgeries are: 22.5 mm x 22 mm. There also are a series of dots under the "I" of Scotia and "A" of Nova that are not present on the originals.
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
06 Jun 2012
07:25:30pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Nova Scotia is my love too - I don't have the genuine 6 & 7 but I have the others & the forgeries of some of them as well. The one pence is easy to identify as genuine or forgery due to the shape of the head - it's the 3p, 6p & shilling because some are very subtle errors (still trying to locate the errors on mine that are supposed to be forgeries). The first mark is the paper colour & the second is the size as Michael mentioned. After that, look for errors in the printing style, shape of the numbers, extensions in lines into the corner boxes, symmetry of the crowns, etc.
Kelly
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
06 Jun 2012
07:28:22pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Perry,
I was thinking the same thing about your dark green as Michael was - re: being a reprint. What is the paper like on the that one?
Kelly
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
06 Jun 2012
07:31:15pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Michael -
I was unaware of the bluish paper on forgeries - is it a lighter blue as opposed to the regular colour seen in the genuine ones? What is the paper like texturally in comparison to the bluish paper of the genuine ones?
Kelly
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10:49:36pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
The blue paper is within tolerances of the originals. The engraving is not as good, but is close. My source for this information is The Serranne Guide.
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re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Time to revive this thread - great collection Perry, especially the No.1
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re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Here is my only Nova Scotia from the diamond or (square) series.
I believe it is no.3. The margins are clear all around - as tight as you can get them!
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
28 Oct 2013
08:40:43pm
re: Nova Scotia Forgeries
Here's a great source for a comparative identification of these issue's.
http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/NovaScotia/NS00.htm
Ross
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