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Europe/Russia : Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

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PDougherty999
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09 May 2012
06:29:31pm
I'm off from coaching my older son's lacrosse tonight so i dicided to hit the Garbage Bag Collection and continue IDing. This was the first one I grabbed off the pile and darned if I'm drawing a blank IDing it. This is one that my boy's picked up at a stamp show a year ago.

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Can someone give me a Country name please? Thanks.

---Pat
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PDougherty999
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09 May 2012
06:47:04pm
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

OK, after Googling for a bit, it appears that it is Altaj Republic. Can't find that in my 2008 or 2009 catalog. Is it listed under a different name? Thanks.
---Pat

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PDougherty999
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09 May 2012
06:50:26pm
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

Those boys know how to pick them... I also have 2 more of these dinosaurs. One from someplace called Buriati and one from Caratchaevo. Where might I find these as well? Thanks.
---Pat

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Patches
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Liz
09 May 2012
07:19:39pm
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

Republic of Buryataia - Russian - south central region of Siberia

Karachevo-Cherkassia - Russion region - stamps are unofficial

http://www.stampshows.com/russianbogus.html

I'm almost positive that you won't find any of these countries in the Scott catalogue. See the list of countries that have issued Bogus stamps and postal stationery.

Liz

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PDougherty999
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10 May 2012
07:09:11am
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

Thanks Liz. On one hand, the kids like them and I have to admit that they are nice looking. On the other hand, the kids did get them from a stamp dealer at a show and they were not marked as Bogus stamps. I'll keep my eye out next time when the kids are rumaging for dinos.
---Pat

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
10 May 2012
08:47:35am
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

Pat, stamp shows are a source of wonder and interesting things, many of the stamps from UPU-recognized stamp-issuing entities. And, then, like your dinosaurs, some are considered labels or Cinderellas. My focus continues to shift further and further to Cinderellas, so I have an appreciation for these things that either can't carry any mail, or only carry it, say, within a specific locale.

Within Russia, there are a number of areas, not actually republics, that are aiming for partial or full autonomy. Most tend to be populated by non-Russian majorities; often more closely related to Islam or Persia than to Slavic heritage or Orthodox Christianity. Dagestan and Chechnya both come to mind. There are others, both in Russia and in many of the republics that had been part of the USSR. In most cases, the UPU does not recognize these rebellious areas, mostly because they can't their transports airborne and deliver mail outside their borders. Frankly, in my mind, their stamps are no less interesting, and sometimes more so, than stamps produced for countries that don't use them to deliver the mail.

I realize i'm wandering here, but I didn't want anyone, least of all your children, to think poorly of this wonderful label. I think it combines great design with interesting art and a fascinating topic brilliantly executed. Just because it has either no, or limited, franking power is no reason to disparage it. For myself, my favorites right now are Christmas and Easter seals (and some of their cousins) tied to covers, all the better if they actually moved the mail instead of accompanying a stamp.

We've often auctioned stamps of St Kilda and Fundy, neither of which is UPU-recognized, but both of which produced wonderful oddities.

And, if you must divest yourself of that pair herbivorous sauropods, let me know and I'll gladly send your kids something in return from a country that exists, philatelically speaking.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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PDougherty999
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10 May 2012
11:28:11am
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

David,
Oh they wouldn't part with those for all the money in the world. As I said, they are very cool looking. I just wished I knew before now that they were "fake" stamps so to speak. Thanks tough for that input on them though.
---Pat

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
10 May 2012
11:54:46am
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

it's the fake part that I was trying to eradicate; and delighted that your kids have found their true value

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PDougherty999
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10 May 2012
03:56:38pm
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

Here we go... Using David's words and text from Wikipedia as well as Liz's link, this will be the introductory page in the russia section of our book. We will treat this stuff as "Back Of The Book".



Russia – Bogus Modern Issues & Overprints

Stamp shows are a source of wonder and interesting things. Many of the stamps you can find are from UPU-recognized stamp-issuing entities. And, then, some are considered labels or Cinderellas. Per “Mackay, James. Philatelic Terms Illustrated. 4th edition. London: Stanley Gibbons, 2003, p.27”, a Cinderella Stamp “has been defined as "Virtually anything resembling a postage stamp, but not issued for postal purposes by a government postal administration...". Per “Wikipedia”, “As cinderella stamps are defined by what they are not, there are many different types and the term is usually construed fairly loosely. Items normally regarded as falling within the area are poster stamps, propaganda labels, commemorative stickers, stamps issued by non-recognised countries or governments, court fee stamps, charity labels like Christmas seals and Easter seals, most telegraph stamps, some railway stamps, some local stamps and purely decorative items created for advertising or amusement. Revenue stamps are sometime considered cinderellas, but as they are normally issued by an official government agency, they tend to be classed separately from other cinderella stamps.”

Within Russia, there are a number of areas, not actually republics, that are aiming for partial or full autonomy. Most tend to be populated by non-Russian majorities; often more closely related to Islam or Persia than to Slavic heritage or Orthodox Christianity. Dagestan and Chechnya both come to mind. There are others, both in Russia and in many of the republics that had been part of the USSR. In most cases, the UPU does not recognize these rebellious areas, mostly because they can't get their transports airborne and deliver mail outside their borders. These areas’ stamps are no less interesting, and sometimes more so, than stamps produced for countries that don't use them to deliver the mail.

Per “Local Posts Of The World” (http://www.stampshows.com/russianbogus.html):

The following are former Soviet Republics with legitimate stamp issues:

Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Karabakh (An enclave within Azerbaijan with ties to Armenia.), Kazakhstan, Kyrghizstan (stamps are coming from more than one source. Be careful what you buy.), Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tadjikistan (Stamps are coming from more than one source. Be careful what you buy.), Tadjikistan (Stamps are coming from more than one source. Be careful what you buy.), Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

All the rest are BOGUS!

The following have issued bogus stamps and some have issued bogus postal stationery also:
Abhkazia (Republic of Abkhasia).*, Adigey, Adjara (Adjaria). *, Aegma, Akhal Velayet, Aksi, Altai or Altaj or Altay, Amur, Amurskaya, Balkan Velayat, Bashkiria, Bashkortostan, Batum, Batumi. *, Bessarabia, Birobidzhan, Bokhara, Buriatia, Chakasia, Caratchaevo, Chechnya or Chechenia, Cherkesia, Chuashia or Chuvashia, Dagestan, Eastern Siberia, Evenkia, Gagauzia or Gagazia or Gaguzia, Galitina Ukraine, Hakasia, Hiluman, Ingushetia, Jewish Republic, Kabarbino-Balkaria or Karbardino-Balkaria, Kalmykia, Kamchatka or Kamtshatka, Karachaevo-Cherkesia, Karakalnakia, Karakalpakia (part of Uzbekistan), Karakalpaston, Karelia, Karjala, Khakasia, Kolguev Islands, Komi, Komsomolsk, Korekia, Koriakia, Kuril Islands, Mari, Mari-El or Marj-El, Mary Veleyat, Mordovia (not to be confused with the actual country of Moldova), Naxcivan, North Ossetia, Osmusaar, Ossetia, Sachalin Islands, Sacha-Yakutia or Saha-Yakutia, Saha, SFOR-Bosnia, South Osetia (South Ossetia). *, Suur Pakri, Tartari, Tatarstan or Tartarstan, Touva, Transdinestra, Transniestra, Udmurtia, Ural, Vorms, Yakuti or Yakutia, and Yakutia-Sacha

* A region of the Republic of Georgia in Central Asia. The U.P.U. has declared these issues as "illegal" in the UPU Circular #50.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
11 May 2012
04:03:55pm
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

I wanted to highlight some of the Cinderellas. I've written about them in this discussion board and elsewhere; I happened to be visiting another site, non-philatelic, where I occasionally post things about stamps, and I thought I'd illustrate a few Cinderellas.

In one, I used a seal to illustrate ways folks were creating collectibles in the 30s: http://juicyheads.com/link.php?PLNTHLJN

Plus this seal, used from an exotic place, that I picked up for virtually nothing, but is rarer than, well..... http://juicyheads.com/link.php?PLHLMYOU

I bring these up primarily because they are not stamps, nor should they move the mail, but, for some, including me, they are wonderful.

David


(Modified by Moderator on 2012-05-11 19:52:07)

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
01 Apr 2013
07:53:58am
re: Russia: modern bogus stamp issues from Altay etc.

They are designed to look interesting but for years stampers called such items "Jam Jar Labels" since in most cases they were printed by one of the major commercial printers and never saw the light of day in the area of their supposed validity.

And as for postallu used copies, FORGETABOUTIT !!!

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