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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Does anyone have any idea of what these cancels mean? They are the only ones like this that I found out of over 1000 stamps that I sorted all about the same time period.
Thanks!
Dave
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02:47:03pm
I have been waiting for someone else to answer this with more definite information than I can offer, but since there has been no action, I will pass on what I can.
These are associated with bulk mail or printed matter (that's why you see them on the lowest denominations). What I am not sure about is whether they were generally used on printed matter mail, or are specific to mail inspected by an inspector who was to make sure that the mail met the qualifications for "Printed Matter". I suspect the latter is the true use -- so only some printed matter got the cancel. The rest would have received a machine cancel. The numbers and letters refer to printed matter sorting stations and are associated with codes for telegraph offices.
Roy
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Late fee cancels. Started around 18 hundred and frozen to death and ceased in 1930.
A charge made on mail posted after the normal collection hours in order to catch the last post.
Can this be true? I know a little more than that great guru of GB Mr Roy Lingen? Fraid not. Info supplied by Mr and Mrs Google and Professor Wikipedia. Ah well at least I'm British.
By the by Roy loved the tutorials. Nothing I didn't know says he, lying through his teeth.
All the best.
Tim2.
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Hi to the both of you! Thank you very much for the information. I have a feeling that these could be the start of a limited specialist collection...so I think I'll keep my eyes out for some more...cause you just never know!
Thanks again!
Dave
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These are special cancels for use on bulk mail, which explains why all of Dave's examples are 1/2 penny stamps. Both hand and machine cancels exist:
I don't know how British late fee cancels look like. They might be similar in appearance, as suggested by Tim2, but these are definitely bulk mail cancels.
Arno
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Been a while since this thread was added to.
I have been unable to find information on the triangular cancellation on this stamp. This thread seemed to most closely address these cancellations, although StampSmarter also has a page. None show the IFB.
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Gen_Tr ...
Can anyone here identify this cancel, or direct me to somewhere that might?
Thanks in advance!!
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From the 1993 edition of "Collect British Postmarks by Dr. J T Whitney"
The reference to Chapter 9 relates to "Dumb" handstamps used for cancelling stamps that have been missed by machine postmarks.
Chapter 14 is for maritime mail and includes the words "Received from ships Postage Paid".
Not sure this helps in any way.
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Thanks Victor.
Right now I think it might be I for inspector, F.B.
If the stamp were on a complete cover, or whatever, it might be much more readily identifiable.
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F.B. could be for Foreign Branch.
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Given the period, that would make sense. On the other hand, I think the term in use at the time was Foreign Office.
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Hi,
My only reference is a later edition of Collect British Postmarks.
However, I had a quick look in the RPSL (Royal Philatelic Society, London) online catalogue and I see there is a reference to an article on GB triangular postmarks in Billig's Philatelic Handbook volume 21 from 1954.
These books were collections of often completely unrelated articles collected from other sources.
I would hope there is something published more recently but this might be a starting point if anyone who is interested has access to a philatelic library.
I'm afraid I don't often visit the RPSL library in London.
I had a look on the GBPS (Great Britain Philatelic Society) website which has huge amounts of great information:
https://www.gbps.org.uk/
I didn't see anything about triangular postmarks (but there could well be something somewhere).
Regarding Tim2's suggestion, I also skimmed through Parmenter's book on London Late Fees (on the GBPS site) and didn't see any examples of triangular marks.
FB and FS were standard abbreviations for the "Foreign Branch" (and at different periods) "Foreign Section" department within the GPO London Head Office.
Similarly, you often see IB and IS abbreviations for "Inland Branch" and "Inland Section".
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Thanks Nigel.
I looked, and I looked. Found quite a bit about Krag machine postmarks, but not IFB. There were only 2 starting with I, and they had 2 letters.
As I recall, one was for Inverness. 307 page pdf file here:
https://www.gbps.org.uk/information/downloads/postal-markings/Krag%20Machine%20Postmarks%20of%20Great%20Britain%20&%20Ireland%20-%20Paul%20T.%20Carter%20(2nd%20Edition,%202022).pdf
Sorry, couldn't make the link "linkable".
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Disclaimer: I am no expert, so this may well be less than helpful.
I do have at hand the 9th edition of Stanley Gibbons "Collect British Postmarks", published in 2013.
There is a smattering of different triangular postmarks described and listed.
One thing is affirmed in the index: that F B is said to be the abbreviation for Foreign Branch, as sheepshanks suggested.
There is a little note on page 367 of the catalogue under item 19/61 which suggests that triangular handstamps "used to denote posting under specific printed paper regulations" (until 1968) sometimes included provincial office numbers (including S prefix for Scotland or I for N. Ireland).
Perhaps the I is a Northern Ireland designation and the item in question was a Foreign Branch posting?
JTH
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Thanks James. The StampSmarter link above also implies an Irish connection.
For now, I will be satisfied with that, until/unless I or another discovers more information.
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04:08:23pm
Ok..so I admit it...Great Britain isn't my area of expertise...that's for sure. Actually, I started working on this area a few days ago and have been mostly sorting and watermarking to see what is what.
Does anyone have any idea of what these cancels mean? They are the only ones like this that I found out of over 1000 stamps that I sorted all about the same time period.
Thanks!
Dave
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(Modified by Moderator on 2024-09-24 07:23:12)
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19 Apr 2012
02:47:03pm
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
I have been waiting for someone else to answer this with more definite information than I can offer, but since there has been no action, I will pass on what I can.
These are associated with bulk mail or printed matter (that's why you see them on the lowest denominations). What I am not sure about is whether they were generally used on printed matter mail, or are specific to mail inspected by an inspector who was to make sure that the mail met the qualifications for "Printed Matter". I suspect the latter is the true use -- so only some printed matter got the cancel. The rest would have received a machine cancel. The numbers and letters refer to printed matter sorting stations and are associated with codes for telegraph offices.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Late fee cancels. Started around 18 hundred and frozen to death and ceased in 1930.
A charge made on mail posted after the normal collection hours in order to catch the last post.
Can this be true? I know a little more than that great guru of GB Mr Roy Lingen? Fraid not. Info supplied by Mr and Mrs Google and Professor Wikipedia. Ah well at least I'm British.
By the by Roy loved the tutorials. Nothing I didn't know says he, lying through his teeth.
All the best.
Tim2.
Login to Like
this post
06:15:51pm
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Hi to the both of you! Thank you very much for the information. I have a feeling that these could be the start of a limited specialist collection...so I think I'll keep my eyes out for some more...cause you just never know!
Thanks again!
Dave
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
These are special cancels for use on bulk mail, which explains why all of Dave's examples are 1/2 penny stamps. Both hand and machine cancels exist:
I don't know how British late fee cancels look like. They might be similar in appearance, as suggested by Tim2, but these are definitely bulk mail cancels.
Arno
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08:48:22am
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Been a while since this thread was added to.
I have been unable to find information on the triangular cancellation on this stamp. This thread seemed to most closely address these cancellations, although StampSmarter also has a page. None show the IFB.
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Gen_Tr ...
Can anyone here identify this cancel, or direct me to somewhere that might?
Thanks in advance!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
From the 1993 edition of "Collect British Postmarks by Dr. J T Whitney"
The reference to Chapter 9 relates to "Dumb" handstamps used for cancelling stamps that have been missed by machine postmarks.
Chapter 14 is for maritime mail and includes the words "Received from ships Postage Paid".
Not sure this helps in any way.
Login to Like
this post
11:59:26am
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Thanks Victor.
Right now I think it might be I for inspector, F.B.
If the stamp were on a complete cover, or whatever, it might be much more readily identifiable.
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
F.B. could be for Foreign Branch.
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12:19:45pm
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Given the period, that would make sense. On the other hand, I think the term in use at the time was Foreign Office.
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Hi,
My only reference is a later edition of Collect British Postmarks.
However, I had a quick look in the RPSL (Royal Philatelic Society, London) online catalogue and I see there is a reference to an article on GB triangular postmarks in Billig's Philatelic Handbook volume 21 from 1954.
These books were collections of often completely unrelated articles collected from other sources.
I would hope there is something published more recently but this might be a starting point if anyone who is interested has access to a philatelic library.
I'm afraid I don't often visit the RPSL library in London.
I had a look on the GBPS (Great Britain Philatelic Society) website which has huge amounts of great information:
https://www.gbps.org.uk/
I didn't see anything about triangular postmarks (but there could well be something somewhere).
Regarding Tim2's suggestion, I also skimmed through Parmenter's book on London Late Fees (on the GBPS site) and didn't see any examples of triangular marks.
FB and FS were standard abbreviations for the "Foreign Branch" (and at different periods) "Foreign Section" department within the GPO London Head Office.
Similarly, you often see IB and IS abbreviations for "Inland Branch" and "Inland Section".
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
03:33:00pm
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Thanks Nigel.
I looked, and I looked. Found quite a bit about Krag machine postmarks, but not IFB. There were only 2 starting with I, and they had 2 letters.
As I recall, one was for Inverness. 307 page pdf file here:
https://www.gbps.org.uk/information/downloads/postal-markings/Krag%20Machine%20Postmarks%20of%20Great%20Britain%20&%20Ireland%20-%20Paul%20T.%20Carter%20(2nd%20Edition,%202022).pdf
Sorry, couldn't make the link "linkable".
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Disclaimer: I am no expert, so this may well be less than helpful.
I do have at hand the 9th edition of Stanley Gibbons "Collect British Postmarks", published in 2013.
There is a smattering of different triangular postmarks described and listed.
One thing is affirmed in the index: that F B is said to be the abbreviation for Foreign Branch, as sheepshanks suggested.
There is a little note on page 367 of the catalogue under item 19/61 which suggests that triangular handstamps "used to denote posting under specific printed paper regulations" (until 1968) sometimes included provincial office numbers (including S prefix for Scotland or I for N. Ireland).
Perhaps the I is a Northern Ireland designation and the item in question was a Foreign Branch posting?
JTH
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01:02:27am
re: Great Britain: identification triangular cancels
Thanks James. The StampSmarter link above also implies an Irish connection.
For now, I will be satisfied with that, until/unless I or another discovers more information.
Login to Like
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